Attacks with gun

>>33015961
>What is XCOM

They have the abilities centering around the characters with firearms, yuh dip. Plus, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to make up abilities with guns. Have different loads for a 203 launcher, have different loads for shotguns, have different firearms perform different tasks.
Is this a troll?

>>33015961
Magic guns. Gun Fu

You could still have different "skills"

Like a Headshot that does 2x damage.
Snapshot, less damage but quicker.
Pierceshot, hits all enemies in a line.

>>33016045

OP here.

Original Xcom had no skills - only different guns.

Even the Xcom1&2 which came out recently do not have any real special abilities. The Sniper class can shoot people in the head... isn't that what the sniper should already be doing when they shoot their gun in the first place? Why is that a special attack.

I mentioned the different ammunition thing already. It doesn't make you feel like your character is progressing. "Oh, now I can load load a different grenade in my launcher... what the hell was preventing me from loading that ammunition 5 levels ago."

There's a million things you can do with a gun in an RPG setting:
Sword shooting gun, fire ball gun, gun gun. A gun that makes portals, a gun that shoots bears. It's a hell of a lot creative than things you can do with a sword.

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>>33016057
Magic guns? Whats the point of having a gun then... cut out the middle man and resort the standard wizard trope.

Gun Fu? Like Gun Kata?

>>33016158
OP:
You are missing it - all these examples are different types of guns. Not a skill or ability. A gun that shoots bears is just a gun with bear ammunition.

>>33016132
>>33015961
>playing games where you character is the one that gets better, not you
Scrub. Games that give everyone the same kit or easy access to the same kit are the best, because it's a matter of skill and not 'I'm level 90 get rekt level 60 shitter"

What about the gun from Judge Dread? That had like 6 different attacks.

>>33015961
You mean like the gun mages from a bunch of diffrent games.
Magic guns.
Skills that would let you dual wield rifles, bonus to initiative, silenced, shooting extra far with reduced negatives, free action or reduced reload times, hiding a gun on you better, using a dimensional pocket to keep your gun in, quick draw, double taps, indirect fire, bouncing a shot off hard surfaces, shooting two people at once......ect.
There are plenty of gun type skills and abilities. Stop playing DnD and pathfinder only and they are ever where from Shadowrun to Rifts, 40k rpg to Iron Kingdoms, heck TMNT/ATB, tristat, anything else non fantasy....even shitty ass Savage Worlds

>>33016177
>A wand that shoots fireballs is just a wand with fireball ammunition

Magic confirmed boring as shit

>>33016160
>point blank shot feats
>sundering without penalty
>learn2suppress better
>feats letting you skip cover penalties
>gun kata to try ricochet shots
>increase crit chance
>getting to shoot VERY far away
>feats to ignore environmental conditions
>targeting knees or hands with reduced penalty.
>double tap to add a damage dice at doubling ammo consumption
>rapid reload as a minor or incidental action
>draw as a minor action for cowboy shootin
>shoot while driving bonus


there are things you could do.

This has to be bait or your thevleast creative GAMER I have ever seen. You cant come up with a few special attacks that use a fast long range weapon other than a bow?

>>33016266
OP probably thinks dnd 3.5 is the best rpg ever cuz he has like, the best ninja build ever, swearsies

>>33016188
OP;
Progression... nearly every single player game has it, otherwise you would play a game for a few hours and set it down forever.

I'd like to know the game you have in mind...

>>33016189
OP:
Still just ammunition

>>33015961
>TL;DR: Name cool skills / abilities you can do with a firearm.
Tactical reload with pump action shotgun swapping between several different ammunitions and even shooting down incoming hand grenades if you're Miculek tier.

>>33016292
"Naas man ADnD 2.0 had it all worked out , anyone that upgraded actually downgraded and is to dumb to know better.....got thisvkiller combo that breaks THAC0 ever time and my GM loves when I sit at his table cause im so edgy it throws the whole table for a loop"

>>33016208
The wand doesn't shoot fireballs, you do. The wand is just a focal point.
The reason you can't change the wand ammunition from fireball to hellblast is because you are not skilled enough to know how to cast hellblast.

Explain why you can't change the ammunition of a grenade launcher to an incendiary grenade? It doesn't take any more/less knowledge or skill.

>>33016352
Heck high level char able to intercept bullets with bullets mid flight....be pretty sweet

>>33016335
>Magic is really boring guys
>You don't have any abilities, just different spells
>Name some abilities you can do with magic guys
>No those are just different spells

>There are people on /k/ right now that don't have special ammunition lying around in case of cryptids
>There are people on /k/ right now that don't have a swappable upper blessed by a priest in case of demonic possession

>>33016378
OP:
There you go. Something that doesn't just rely on an ammunition change or a passive ability. An active exciting ability that engages the player.

"incoming bullets - shit better use my skill to shoot them down"

>>33016352
>Tactical reload with pump action shotgun
Learned something cool. Tactical reload definition.

>>33015961
>The reason there are not guns in RPGs
>Any cool gameplay mechanic
>TL;DR: Name cool skills / abilities you can do with a firearm.
Only name? Okay.

Aimed Shot
Gunslinger
Hit and Run
Suppressive Fire
Kneecap Shot
Point Shot
Steadfast Aim
Snipe
Ambush
Full-Auto
Rapid Fire
Spec Ops
Concentrated Fire
Sharpshooter
Execute
Commando

I'm almost certain nobody will recognize the game I'm talking about because it isn't particularly /k/, but good RPGs are still being made and exceptional game designers can make RPG combat with firearms fun.

You're a fucking idiot. Ignoring the fact that you can have precision "sniper" characters, assault rifles for all around combat, shotguns and submachine guns for CQC, etc., there is such thing as incendiary ammo and other kinds as well.

Your OP was fucking stupid. By that logic, magic is boring too because you just cast different spells. You're autistic and stupid as fuck, please drink bleach

>>33016370
Well your clearly basising this off Shadowrun, other systems a wand has a finite number of charges . So it is like just pulling anouther gun.

>>33016504
OP:
Just ammo. Not an active skill the character has developed from an intimate knowledge of firing their weapon.

>>33015961
I like how you said that we can't do different ammo types but the Archer stuff you listed is all different ammo types.

>>33016490
Underrail?

>>33016363
>AD&D

may as well be "Save or Die: the Tabletop Game".

I'm legitimately surprised dnd managed to survive with an intact player base. not that D&D 1.0 was any better about insta-death and autistic save rules.

for guns, dnd and its cousins are a meh system. D20 modern was a decent attempt, Saga was a bit better, but they came late to the 3.5+ party.

Palladium/Rifts can be good, but gets very rule-autism heavy in weird places.

>>33017005
Has anyone actually played Ops and Tactics? I want to believe it's good but I can't convince anyone to play it.

>>33016132
>The Sniper class can shoot people in the head...
>isn't that what the sniper should already be doing
no

>what the hell was preventing me from loading that ammunition 5 levels ago
what the hell was preventing me from spinning around with my sword out 5 levels ago

>>33017200
OP:
5 levels ago you weren't strong enough, talented enough to swing your sword around.

>>33017353
5 levels ago you weren't cleared to have those rounds.

>>33015961
>cools skill you/abilities you could do with a gun
>ricochet multi-kills
>bump fire (semi-autos)
>dual wield lever actions
>dual wield pump action shotguns
>use environmental damage to indirectly kill enemy

As for "fantasy" or "sci fi" bullets, I've seen flame, explosive, ice, acid, splinter shells, as well as the usual AP, HP, soft-point, hot-loaded, JHP, etc.

>>33017005
I love Rifts, I think it get to much shit, yeah its bulky and the rules system isnt modern...ie gimicky in my mind (looking at you savage worlds)
It could use a rule over haul, but with 20 + years on the same rules set thats a shit ton of reprinting, my dream is an offical megaveral rule book that is cannon over all systems, but I wont hold my breath.

>>33016132


>I mentioned the different ammunition thing already. It doesn't make you feel like your character is progressing. "Oh, now I can load load a different grenade in my launcher... what the hell was preventing me from loading that ammunition 5 levels ago."

You could have your character create the different loads for the ammo

>>33017364
or skilled enough to use them appropriately, see rifle grenades and just how good some guys got with them.

>>33017870
Look at the chemist or is it alchemist from pathfinder, at level one you cant make as good of potions as a level 6, yeah you can buy the really powerfull stuff but how many can you buy before your broke.
Same with with Iron kingdoms you gotta learn as a gunspell guy how to make all the diffrent bullets and charge them correctly with "mana" to use them

>>33015961
>or a different type of ammunition
>Flame arrow, Explosive arrow, Frozen arrow, Split arrow.
All of those are just different types of ammunition.

>>33015961
>Flame arrow, Explosive arrow, Frozen arrow, Split arrow
>>33015961
>a different type of ammunition

>>33018066
Fair fair....

I guess follow up question.
What different types of ammunition is there? And what affect do they have?

>>33016370
You're just proving that wizards are fags

Go watch Outlaw Star.

Most of the Caster shells were self contained magical effects, for an RPG style explanation, you are dependent on ammo instead of MP. So, this gives you a higher effective MP, but it can not regenerate. Also, some of the more powerful Caster shells just acted as a vector for casting, instead of being a self-sufficient unit. Essentially, it allows someone with no magical skill to "cast" spells, (with cost to MP or HP depending on how you want to fuck with it) beyond what they would ever be able to, because the thing with the knowledge of magic is the gun, reading the data of the shells.

>>33015961
I haven't gamed in ages, but back in the day, we used to address this issue in one of two ways:

Make character generation quick and easy, and mechanics fast and deadly, like say, Friday Night Firefight. Players will go in expecting to die, so it won't be a big speed bump. In my group, each player started with six characters, so once one goes down, a replacement steps up.

or

Use mechanics that are so complicated, dying is part of the fun. We once ran a Phoenix Command game where six hours of game play covered sixty seconds of action. At the end, everyone was dead or dying, but damnit, we knew EXACTLY how they got that way, in detail.

>They get to do all sorts of things with their bow. Flame arrow, Explosive arrow, Frozen arrow, Split arrow.
>it's just ammunition!

Fuck off OP. Characters could load some AP or Explosive rounds just like they can string a flame or ice arrow.
Every single thing that applies to bows, applies to guns. I'm not going to restate what anons have already posted, read your own fucking thread.

Name some fucking bow skills that aren't just "use different arrow", "use more arrows" or "apply magic to arrow".

>>33016490
>I'm almost certain nobody will recognize the game I'm talking about because it isn't particularly /k/
One of the fallout games? Commando and gunslinger were definitely in NV, but Ive never heard of point shot so IDK.

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>>33015961
>The standard ranged RPG character is an archer. They get to do all sorts of things with their bow. Flame arrow, Explosive arrow, Frozen arrow, Split arrow.

Ammo is what we need to work with, so they would apply their "magic" to their projectiles.

I've been playing a lot of PSO2 so I'll use some skills from that as an example.

>Shooting far more rounds than the weapon can hold without requiring a reload.

>Making projectiles fly at improbable angles and still land a hit.

>Focus energy into the projectile, causing it to pierce through multiple targets without stopping.

>Fire full retard with pinpoint accuracy, even during a dive or other such maneuver.

>Make a single extremely accurate shot.

And yeah, it looks like a lot of other people already made points about your "arrows" already, huh?

>>33018578
>>33018065
>>33018066
And like they say, pretty much everything that can be done with a bow, can be done with a gun.

>>33016490

Don't mind if i add something like passive
mechanic.

Triggering Discipline.
Double Tap (its like Full-auto but triggering it is like 15% chance. Mostly like Free Attack move).
Marksmanship.
Focus Fire (Puts 10% Additional dmg, to same target, stacks to 3 times, switching another target debuffs it).
Grazing Shot (Lets say if character/enemy has higher dodge/agility, chance are u still hit the target with minimal dmg).
Walking Fire (like Hit and Run, accurate firing but decrease movement).
Sure Shot (its like snapshot/sharpshooter but increases accuracy in cost of dmg).
Base of Fire (If a character doesn't move a turn, it increases accuracy and dmg output).
Burst Fire (the idea of this ability is like this: does 2 or 3 attacks but consume 2 points of ammunition/or consume alot Action Points).

I could write up Passive abilities all day for firearms. That is not engaging to the player though.

Looking still for various ammunition types and the affects they have...

>Flame arrow, Explosive arrow, Frozen arrow, Split arrow
>different type of ammunition
So it's the exact same?

>>33019335
In order of cool factor:
>Raufoss
>EXACTO
>APIT
>API
>APDS
>AP
>Tracer
>JHP
>JFP
>Ball

>>33022116

>No Duplex/Triplex

pleb desu senpai

OP: "I only play 4E"

Go pirate shadowrun rulebooks.

>>33015961
RPG's are for liberal faggots that want to escape into a high fantasy medieval or sci fi setting, that's why they don't have guns.

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>>33022116

>>33015961
When it comes to melee weapons or even archaic ranged weapons in RPGs (electronic or P&P), the learned special abilities for them tend to follow the theme of "hit enemy EXTRA hard". In games with guns combined with RPG battle mechanics this usually works out exactly the same. As in the XCOM example early in the thread, a character can shoot an enemy normally with no concern for shot placement for a normal attack, while a limited use ability to specifically target their head is the special gamechanger move to bring variety into things. Of course a magical setting as well as durable characters allows for much more options than settings and systems leaning towards realism.

A lot of things are already abstracted in most RPG systems so there's nothing preventing firearms from fitting in. If firearms are used in conjunction with melee and archaic ranged weapons then its not too difficult to cook up handwaves for it to all work, or to add in simple mechanics to keep them balanced in a pseudorealistic manner. A simple example would be bow vs rifle: bow is definitely quieter by default than any combination of rifle, suppressor and ammo, but bow is slower firing and due to its slow projectile it has a penalty to hit against any target that is aware of the shooter, which emphasizes stealth even more and then provides further avenues to add those special character skills to enable or enhance stealth play.

Seriously just go ask /tg/ for advice.

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>>33016332
duh

>>33018868
>Grazing Shot... Still hit target with minimal dmg
>Sure Shot... increases accuracy in cost of dmg

sounds the same to me

>>33016332
Counterstrike comes to mind

>>33025316
So you are telling me... that if you do a better job you don't get more $$ and more $$ lets you buy better guns?
Nah.. thats not progression

>>33015961
>Tracer rounds, incendiary rounds, cryo rounds, RIP ammo
And your problem is?

>>33016208
Tactical assault wand required with high capacity twigazines.

>>33015961
In a game like DnD you perfectly could have gun-related feats, and maybe you even have. If I'm not mistaken Feng Shui has something like that. There's also a TriStat game that has something like that. Games that allow for combat feats are usually very cinematic. Most games in modern settings try be a somewhat realistic.

>>33015961
>different rounds for the rifle. Green tip, blacks tip, api, incendiary, etc.
>optics/dots
>attachments, rails slings stocks etc
>grenade launchers, under slung shotty, all with different ammunition choices.
>different rifles,hand guns, etc altogether.
>different magazine options.

Integrate all of that into a tech/skill tree and you'll have some interesting combos.
>omg I'm facing a heavily armored target, lets shoot three shitty arrows and do a bounce shot with another's, that'll show him!
vs
>hey an armored target, where's my api I'm going to cook his insides.

>>33015961
>compartmentalized abilities
you are so fucking stupid

>>33016177
Some stupid ideas I just pulled out of my ass:
Die Motherfucker! Can shoot faster but cannot aim
Disarm: shoot the opponents gun of its hand
Revolver Ocelot: gun spinning that intimidates your opponent
Curve the Bullet: bullet can hit concealed targets
John Woo Special: time slows down as the character shoots, giving better accuracy - must use two guns

>>33025388
Then an hour later it starts all over again.

Mine craft sandbox mode.

>>33015961
>what is Ro´s gunslinger/rebllion?