Brazil Decommissioning Sao Paolo

The fuck did they even need it for in the first place? It's not like they need to project aerial power anywhere. Any country they could conceivably get in a conflict with is either close enough that land bases will suffice or so overwhelmingly powerful in naval terms that they're fucked anyways

>>32995386
Shittier Portugal doesn't even need a military wtf

In recent years, Thailand and UK have turned their carriers into helicopter only

Syria has proven Russia's carrier is a joke

China doesn't even take their own seriously

France only has one

I don't think even India and Italy take their own carrier capability seriously

Muricca is only one who can do carriers

>>32995386

French should buy it back and do the modernization so they at least have 2 carriers again.

While the CdG gets a lot of undeserved shit, it is still inexcusable for the #3 Western power to have such spotty force projection.

>>32995424

One part prestige statement, another part strategic luxury.

Sure, Brazil could reach all of its likely peer foes over land, but it would be nice to have an offshore airbase to harass them with anyway.

>>32995466
It's still a pointless waste of money. In a country where they need to focus more on supplying their paramilitary forces to combat increasing crime, there is literally nothing wrong with decommissioning something that was basically just a big dick-measuring contest. Brazil's military is already way overpowered compared to all of their neighbors.

>>32995461
China takes their carrier very seriously, actually. They don't ever intend to use it in combat and they never did. They've publicly come out and designated purely as a way to train in carrier operations while they work on developing an indigenous design for one. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years China rolls out something that could give a US carrier a run for its money

>>32995512

Indeed, I don't disagree. Brazil can't seriously think of itself as a maritime power when it has enough to do in its own backyard.

Argentina should buy it to troll the UK.

>>32995552
Tbh I think most South American countries basically need to convert their entire armed forces into nothing more than paramilitaries to patrol their countries and keep cartels and gangs in check. Like a big, giant Coast Guard and National Guard.

>>32995386
Why the hell does Portuguese even still exist? Just speak Spanish already dammit.

>>32995461
I think India takes theirs seriously. They're serious about controlling the Indian Ocean. They unironically think it belongs to them because it's named after them, just like China and the China Sea, only even bigger.

>>32995461
Russia's carrier understandably a "joke" because it was built in the 80s, as an unnecessary project, went through 20+ years of basically no maintenance, and isn't even designed to project force, it's a defensive carrier.

>>32995461

I think India takes their carrier capability seriously. The underlying problem is the extent to which India takes military modernization seriously overall.

>>32995568

Aren't they and Brazil in a bankruptcy contest?

>>32995572

Following the Colombian model, perhaps? It's an interesting idea. The US would probably be a useful facilitator for organizing such a transformation (obviously that wouldn't be politically conceivable).

>>32995655
>Aren't they and Brazil in a bankruptcy contest?
Yes, and your point is?

>>32995655
Yeah I think the US would definitely support something like that honestly. A more stable political climate down there means less crime, less drugs, and less immigration into the US. I mean it would really just be a continuation of the Monroe Doctrine. South and Central America really has little use for a standing military if we virtually guarantee their safety from all outside influences. There's still a few lingering grudges and border disputes down there, but nothing that requires massive numbers of tanks and naval forces.

>>32995655
>Aren't they and Brazil in a bankruptcy contest?

Is this the South American version of the Cold War?

>>32995700

Yes, I agree. The trouble is that guaranteeing LatAm security is tantamount to assuming control of foreign policy (like you said, the Monroe Doctrine).

>>32995687
>>32995702

kek

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Sell it to Canada plz.

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>>32995386
You might even say that...BRICS were shat.

>>32995810
Carlos, I hate it when you make me laugh.

>>32995882
Mission accomplished.

The joke was shit enough that I shopped a fresh Carlos just for it. Happy Valentines Day, anon-kun

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>>32995386
We all know where this is going...

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>>32995810

>>32995536
Your right about the launching, but then the dumb fuckers went and built another one using the same design.

A fucking kuntz in 2017. What the actual fuck

>>32995646

What's the difference between a defensive carrier and a normal carrier?

>>32996223
Range.

>when our only military hope is the jungle

If anyone ever comes by boat we're fucked.

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>>32995968

>>32995810
xaxa

>>32996185
That's more for practice in building an aircraft carrier I think. First they remodeled a Soviet carrier they had no experience with. Then completely build a soviet model they've built up some experience with. Then comes transition to an updated original design. It's tough shit to build a carrier, even for a country with a lot of experience.

China isn't rushing to put out a whole carrier fleet. They're biding their time until they're in a comfortable position to challenge the US (once their economy has sufficiently passed ours).

>t. Aircraft carrier builder

>>32996226

Makes sense, thanks.

>>32996261
Nah nigga. I mean unless it's pure shit, and expected to be pure shit, it's kind of a waste.

I mean, they could have practiced on an indig carrier design and done fine. Any other design would be better imo.

Hell, even the US is thinking about moving to a baby carrier half the size of a ford but with 35bs

>>32996327
You're talking about the country that has built entire ghost cities for economic growth and in anticipation of rural citizens moving to urban areas in the future. Building one old carrier to add to the navy to practice aviation with isn't a big deal. The experience in construction, naval officer training, and naval aviation training is far more valuable. Now the indigenous carrier construction will go much smoother and help prevent China from losing face from problems arising during construction.

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They were flying A-4 skyhawks from them, right?

Yeah, its better for Brazil to reassess their carrier situation. Maybe in 5 years when the French deliver their nuclear subs they can start thinking about getting another carrier.

>>32996466
Wait, is Brazil ordering nuclear subs from France?

>>32995576
Because a long time ago some Portuguese colonized a place, then they fugged and made more Portuguese, and then those Portuguese taught the natives to speak Portuguese, then they all fugged and made even more Portuguese.

>>32996421

Any problems during carrier construction will happen regardless.

Anything that happens due to design failure will regardless too because it will be their first time regardless.

It's crappy logic.

>>32995424
Malvinas delusions

>>32996487
So you're saying a company building a product for the first time will have just as many problems as a company that has been in the industry for years? Now that's bad logic. I'm not saying there won't be problems from the new design, but shipyard operations are complex as fuck. Any experience in procurement, scheduling, seat of the pants design changes is valuable experience. You're too stuck to the fact that it's a bad design and can't look beyond the purely military value of the carrier.

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>>32996466

Correct.

>>32995386

>yfw african pirates start raiding South America in 10 years

>>32997681

>mfw I read "American pirates" at first

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>>32995463
>French should buy it back and do the modernization so they at least have 2 carriers again.

She's at the end of her life and is about to fall apart.

>>32997748
>eastern coastal cities
Checks out

>>32996480
wtf
France has the capability of creating nuclear subs?
what do they do? hide at the bottom of the deepest trenches and cry?

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>>32998306

>what the fuck are we doing here

>>32998306
If they were that delusional about getting back the Malvinas they should of sold that rusting hulk and bought aircraft with a combat radius that could actually reach the Islands and just use container ships for troop transport along some Maritime Patrol Aircraft to protect them from subs

>>32999209

>1600mi between the Falklands and the nearest Brazilian AF base
Yeah they'd have fun maintaining tanker coverage over that range.

This is what the marxists have in store for the west
Brazil has a "population" of 200 million, when in actuality there is like maximum 50 million humans in it.
Poor as shit because they need to spend all their money on socialism to the browns & blacks

>>32999209

Does Brazil even give a fuck about the Faulklands conflict?

>>32999416
>>32999209

Actually that was within the range of their A-4s, they weren't suited for operating in a heavy IADS environment or a good A-A platform

>>32996563
Wrong country, dumbass.

>>32999481
>Brazil
>>32999209
>>32999416

I just made myself look like a fool

>>32999488

It's ok I thought you might have been confused.

>>32999464
only in the sence of "Fuck the Euros! South American Famila!"

>>32997748
Modern privateers when?

>>32996223
Defensive carriers are way cheaper and are basically a deploy anywhere fighter screen, used to dissuade and disable strike missions and air superiority missions.
Hence why Russian carriers are fitted out with 8 Kashtan systems (each fitted with two guns comparable to a GAU-8, and a full missile battery) as well as a full complement of anti ship ballistic missiles.

The idea is that you place it in a body of water that the enemy would have to traverse if they wanted to strike your territories without getting shredded by your anti-air.
In the case of US aggression they would generally of brought a CSG to bare, the smaller Russian DCG could keep the US CSG at a range of 200+ km by threat of AShM (usually Moskits with nuclear warheads) - the CSG would have to send fighters into range to strike the DCG, with the Russians relying on superior manoeuvrability and SAM systems to dissuade and defeat fighter groups.
This was meant to tie in with the Ekranoplans that would fly and push the CSG out with the threat of AShMs (most likely Moskits with nuclear warheads).

At the time US CIWS could not deal with Russian AShMs, especially ones designed to airburst nuclear weapons above CSGs.

The doctrine was that tactical nuclear weapons were ethical where no civilian risk was assured and fallout was not an issue, especially with low yield and low radiation warheads.

US doctrine had moved away from tactical nuclear weapons, and their AShMs were inferior to Soviet technology at the time.

So, long story short, defensive carrier groups can't project force for shit, but they're a fuck load cheaper and cab deny the entire Black/Caspian seas to US CSGs at much lower cost.

They've fallen out of favour, due to current developments of Russian SAM systems that can effectively deny enough territory that a CSG would be useless in the Black or Caspian seas.
This doesn't rule out offensive use of Ekranoplans, which coincidentally the Russian government has pledged to bring back.

>>32995576
Something something gavelkind succesion, something something reconquista

>>32995463
France doesn't need to do shit in terms of force projection until it leaves the EU, there's no way in the FUCK they should be allowed to prop up their own international naval forces as a puppet for the EU's burgeoning "defense forces"

>>32999548
>only in the sence of "Fuck the Euros! South American Famila!"
The thing is, at the time although they publicly supported Argentina, they were rather glad that the UK kicked the shit out of them.

Now that Argentina has almost no real military capability they can safely support the 'Malvinas recovery project'.

>>32995386

Brazil why
Brazil why you do this
Stop
We need you

Is this because of the Olympics?

>>32995386
India can purchase it and use it as curry and poo catapult to bombard Chinese coasts. Would be pretty effective. Poo covered radars would be useless, poo covered airfields would prevent planes to take off, the slimy stench of curry and poo would take out most Chinese soldiers before they could even reach to their NBC gear.

>>32995536
>I wouldn't be surprised if in 10 years China rolls out something that could give a US carrier a run for its money

>10 years

They're 50 years behind in carriers.

>>32995576
Mountains.

>>32995463
It's because most countries have militaries for defense, not offense like the USA.

>>32996466
>French deliver their nuclear subs
oh god, dont tell me Brazil bought nuclear subs from France.
JESUS BR, STOP THROWING MONEY AWAY!

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>>32999896
Are there still plans to deepen the Volga-Don canal so that larger ships can move between the Caspian and the Black/Mediterranean seas?

The two frigates in the Caspian flotilla are too big to fit through the canal system right now without running aground.

France sold pure waste.
Bad investment from Brazil.
France7x1Brazil

>>32996185
The 001A is a """""Kuntz"""""

The tonnage is different, the island, the launch angle, the hangar, the lack of the giant missile launcher, the updated elevator layout, and the expanded sides of the carrier.

Essentially what the Russians wish they could have done to their carrier

I think LHDs are a really good fit for a lot of modern military missions. Old school big carriers, not so much.

>>33001019
yep, pretty much this.
they would been better if they had kept the ol' Minas Gerais

>>33000603
prolly.
between olympics and world cup we lost like, ALL OUR MONEY.
we have nothing, hope you tourists are happy.

>>32995461
>UK have turned their carriers into helicopter only

So the 2 new ones aren't for the F35B at all, and the ramp is just for style.

>>33000603

Honestly it's a good thing that Latin American spending on big military prestige items they don't need is falling. Where money needs to be spent is on internal stability and security.

If you look at world cities in terms of murder rate, you'll see that besides a few South African ones, they are all in the Americas.

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/most-dangerous-cities-in-the-world.html

And to think FDR wanted them on the permanent UN security council.

>>33001625

Yeah... That information is badly out of date, HMS Illustrious was converted to helicopter only because they wanted to withdraw the only fixed wing aircraft capable of operation from it (the Harrier) to save costs as Typhoon squadrons were brought in. Since then Illustrious itself has been decommissioned.

The F-35B is late, but will be brought in for the QE carriers in large part because the USA is helping train RN FAA personnel alongside their USN and USMC counterparts.

>>32996614
No, I'm saying the company is "new" either way.

The builders are building a new aircraft carrier if it's a kuntz or not. The designers are designing one for the first time whenever they do it.

>>32996480
Brazil ordered four regular complete scorpene subs and one lenghtened empty hull to place their indigenous sub reactor

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>>32999464
Brazil captured one vulcan and reversed engineered the AGM-45 shrike it was carrying

>>33001689

look, is better have and don't need than need and don't have, and for fuck sake, Venezuela is our neighbor

>>33001846
for fuck sake, Brazil can manufacture their own submarines, they should spend that money getting a new, working, carrier

>>32999548
bullshit.
Argentina was our main potential enemy in the 80's and we had a pretty tense relation with them, but hey, the last thing we needed back in the 80's was military interventions on our continental territory.
like, we pretend we cared, but we just want to keep all you away, because, fuck your sheep-island

>>33001789
But it's easier to transition from refurb carrier>build same carrier> build indigenous carrier.

Building something they have already overhauled is much easier than jumping straight from overhaul to building indigenous. And then they will have the added experience and time to iron out their processes since they are building a design they are already familiar with. It's important to keep the workers busy and gaining experience while the new design is being finished.

>>33001019
It's typical French behaviour actually.
First they saw the Germans fuck over Brazil, then the French had to catch up.
Now they sold them French subs to one up the Germans.

>>32996646
I see less blacks doing carrier ops here than I see on American pictures. How does that work out ?

>>33001934
>First they saw the Germans fuck over Brazil,

How did Germans fuck over Brazil outside of football?

>>33001934
Western civilization is literally gonna die under our "diversity"
We are now less white than these shithole south american countries

>>32996223
American carriers project air power, Soviet carriers were to protect their SSBN force.

>>33001881

Right, but a single old aircraft carrier is useless for that, you said it yourself, the issue is border conflicts away from the main Brazilian population centres. For that, an aircraft carrier is an inefficient use of limited funding. Brazil is buying the newest fighter aircraft in the region (Gripen NG), cost-effective ground attack (Super Tucano) and is investing in tactical airlift & helicopters, while getting new submarines for deterring an enemy from Brazil's shores and potentially blockading a hostile enemy.

If Brazil continues to spend its current budget on sensible procurement, there are no problems. Brazil spends more on its military as it is than the rest of South America put together, it isn't the Cold War any-more.

>>33001917
No, it's logically the same.

The builders are following a design. They are doing it the first time weather or not it's an indig design or not, and the designers are doing it the first time when they do an indig design.

For the tonnage the kuntz is a waste, especially without the missiles.

>>33002075
Trust me. This is my industry, this is my area of expertise. Having well trained workers when you go to make your first indigenous carrier is far more important. It's not just as simple as workers following the design. Carriers are incredibly complex undertakings, even for organizations that have been doing it for decades. Building industrial base is far more important than trying to catapult to parity with the US. This isn't a fucking Ikea bedroom set.

>>33002054
Even without the gripen, the brazilian air force can deal with any other air force in the region with the combination of F5 + R/E 99 + derby

>>33002115
Trust me. I am a US navy seal.

Point is, the builders are skilled in the sense that they are shipbuilders. This however, is their first aircraft carrier, weather the design is worthwhile or not.

At best, they will produce a woefully inadequate ship, instead of a respectable one. At worst for either case they have a failure.

Logically, it's preferable to go with the indig design.

Going with a midway/foresstal class ship instead of the kuntz would have been more bang for their buck.

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>>33002120
>Even without the gripen, the brazilian air force can deal with any other air force in the region with the combination of F5 + R/E 99 + derby

Venezuela has actually modern fighters that completely outclass F-5, no amount of modernization will make those even close match to Su-30 or even F-16A/B.

>>33002165
>I am a seal

So you have no experience with the industry.

>>33002175
a plane is only good as the missiles it carries

>>33002200
I was mocking you.

Anyone can say anything on an New Zealand pottery glazing FAQ

>>32996185
Practice. Shipfags just think of ships and stats, but that's a kiddies view of war.

China thinks of infrastructure and learning. There is no urgent need for a carrier because no one can landlock the mainland. It takes decades to get gud, so they plan for decades.

Smart Chinese are smart.

>>33002175
only chile with the 707-condor and derby can pose a significant treat to brazil

>>33002227
Buy one for practice, fine.

Build an obsolete design for practice, not fine at all.

>>32996231
>If anyone ever comes by boat we're fucked.

Why? How stupid are you? Boats stop being useful at the water's edge. You have plenty of room for strategic depth to fight on your own terms. You also have the security that no one wants to take over an nation of favelas.

Planning for expensive nation-state wars that don't happen is a typical poorfag strategic disaster. It sucks resources from land forces, police and air forces you can actually use. No one can attack effectively without warning, and if the neighbors start a naval buildup you counter that with missiles and air power which are more versatile.

>>33002209
Not true at all. A higher and faster flying Su-30 will give a much better kill envelope to a missile than a F-5 can. It will also have a better radar and if it can engage early, it can probably also disengage before the F-5 can shoot back as well.

>>32995576
It's preferable to speak portuguese than to speak spanish but end up sounding like a homosexual arab with a lisp.

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>>33002265
i dont dispute that, but the r99 can vector the f5 to fire a missile way before the su30 knows where the f5 is

>>33002219
So you admit you have no appreciable knowledge of the industry.

>>33002232
It has limited use, it's not obsolete. When they have 3 002 carriers they can use the 001s to experiment with a pure drone using carrier, you could put 100 drones into it.

>>33002227
Don't even bother. I've been trying to explain to the dense fucker that industrial experience is all the Chinese are concerned with but he can't get past

>muh obsolete
>muh indigenous

>>33002308
Nah. I'm actually a senior naval architect at Newport News. I handle arrangement and concept design.

:^)

>>33002321
You gain the same industrial experience either way.

>>33002341
>frantically googles ship builders
>I work at NNS guise

>>33002373
>it's muh industry guise everything you say is irrelevant huehuhuhue

>>33002318

By the time they get 3 002's, one of the 001's (the lioning) will be damn near ready to kick the bucket for good.

You COULD have used an interim design for UAV's anyways, just held a fuckload more, more efficiently.

The design is pretty damn obsolete. US gators compete with it.

Hell, the new "CV-LX" the navy really fucking wants for its augmented carrier ops will trounce it.

>>32999993
elections Soon, if NF win ( a longshot but...) well, the EU takes a mortal blow when france has its Frexit vote.
>>33000687
They were: what have they picked up siince? They bring a fuckload of brain-y people to look at any problem & whatever info they hack/buy/honeypot.Hell maybe china will just by this ship like tey did the australian & russian one

>>33002476
>They were: what have they picked up siince?

Not that much.

I mean, they are still in the USN's 50-60's carrier stage.

>>33002476

>Hell maybe china will just by this ship like tey did the australian & russian one
That would be a step backward at this point.

With that said, China's not about to build a cutting-edge carrier, not least because that's not where their serious R&D money is going into.

>>33002120
not sure if this fucker here is trying to be ironic
>>33002054
I agree on owning a old useless carrier, but I do want my country to have a decent, functional aircraft carrier, we have a huge coastline, a carrier would be useful to guard and defend it no matter how you put it.

>>33002872
I dont think anyone is asking china to build a cutting edge carrier.

>>32995461
indias navy is shit

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>>33002277

>>33002971

>>32995536 seemed to be suggesting that.

>>32995568
They turned down the last Brazilian carrier

>>33002971
China has lots of money and soldiers to expend.
they can build hundreds, if not thousands of below average carriers, zerg rush any potential enemy and still win against far more advanced carriers

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>>33002993
>they can build hundreds, if not thousands of below average carriers

>>33002993

>they can build hundreds, if not thousands of below average carriers
"No."

>>33001862
They didn't 'capture' a vulcan. It was interred there during hostilities when it ran out of fuel as Brazil was neutral.

>>33002993
>they can build hundreds, if not thousands of below average carriers

Is this the new form of the container ship idiot?

>>33002993
Everyone point and laugh at this fuckin idiot

>>33003010
>>33003025
they simply have the largest industrial complex of the planet.
they have too much money and need to spend it in order to keep the yuan from losing any more value.
all they need is to manufacture one working carrier, then they can, and most probably will, mass produce it.
it will be a shitty carrier? yes.
there will be hundreds of it?
oh yeah.

>>33003049
Thats just wrong.

The USN puts out more tonnage per year than the PLAN.

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>>33002993
>hundreds, if not thousands of below average carriers

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>>33003040
China is obsessed with maritime expansion, they will try having a fuck load of carriers.
same way they are trying to build as many artificial islands on international waters as they can

>>33003049

"No."

>>33003052
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/uss-gerald-r-ford-aircraft-carrier-delay/

>>33003084

Wowza!

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>>33003072
I don't think you understand what goes into building any naval vessel, let alone a fucking aircraft carrier. Dumping thousands of tons of sand and mud on a reef is easy as fuck, literally anyone can do it. Building an aircraft carrier is another thing entirely. You are literally too fucking dumb to function. Please leave and never come back.

>>33003084
Ok?

The USN still puts out more tonnage, and is building more tonnage, than the PLAN.

>>33003073
they will try, even if the final product is a death trap.

>>33003084
I just want to point how adequate is that the Carrier matches the f-35

>>33003116

Oh, you mean the fact that it is lambasted by the media thoughout its entire R&D phase only to turn out to be the best of its class in the entire world?

>>33003108

You're confusing Chinese socio-economic stereotypes with PLAN shipbuilding policy. They are not the same.

China is more likely to produce hordes of uncertain-quality missiles (as they are in fact doing) to defend their region for much less money.

>>33003125
that or the fact it is a bottomless pit that will forever devour tax-payers money, still better than having no carrier, I suppose.

>>33000445
Of course. Argentinas dictatorship was a threat to them

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>>33003108
No, they won't. Because the chinks, despite what people on here say, aren't retarded. You, on the other hand, are. Naval warfare is not something where you can spam hundreds of pieces of shit and still get a good outcome. You either put in something that can compete or you get entirely demolished. This is the way naval warfare has been for centuries. Not to mention, they literally do not have the capacity to make "hundreds or thousands of carriers." China is the biggest manufacturer of merchant vessels in the world and their yearly outcome is still only in the dozens. You are an idiot, McFucking kill yourself.

>>33003018
This is a good story actually:
>beginning of the falklands war
>brits still sending planes from britain, have to refuel midway
>one of the planes has problems on the way back, can't refuel
>pilots decides that instead of landing in the sea and waing for rescue, better go for the nearest known airfield, in brazil
>he thought the hues wouldn't even detect him on the radar, he was planning on just landing and talking his way out
>nope, brazillian radars caught him immediately, figters scramble to intercept, escort him to airstrip
>he and the plane gets arrested at an air base, both released at the end of the war (plane minus guns)
>brit pilot later said he was allways treated with the upmost respect, enjoyed his time in brazil

Brazil was secretly selling guns for the argies during the war, and I also herd stories of argies planes landing in Brazil on emergencies, but the hues still claimed they were neutral.

>>33002993
Well that's probably true with troops in mainland china but their navy is not vet big compared to ours

>>33003143
pretty much this

>>33003132
>that or the fact it is a bottomless pit that will forever devour tax-payers money,

Oh, i see, you let gawker and vanity fair color your viewpoints.

I pity you.

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Brazilians are normal everyday humans just like you and me.

>>33003157
now now, dont be that mad, Im just poking some fun at the fact you guys have a couple projects that are lagging horribly and costing much, much more than expected.
like, you still have other carriers and other fighters that can actually fight, much more than BR has, anyway

>>33003194
>Im just poking some fun at the fact you guys have a couple projects that are lagging horribly and costing much

Why would i be mad at a retards ramblings? I dont get mad if a special needs kid calls me a stupid head.

>>33003194
First production teething problems. It's happened in every industry since the dawn of time. Most companies hide it with massive in house product testing. We can't exactly do that with aircraft carriers.

>>33003242
you totes mad AF

>>32996261
>>32995536

you're retarded

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>>33003269

>>33003278
Stunning post 10/10

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>>33003309
this thread is all bananas now, mang
I even feel sorry for trolling with the chinese carrier shit, it was really stupid.
no, I am really retarded indeed, but still even I can feel bad about it

>>33003309

retarded post 10/10

>>33002934

>a carrier would be useful to guard and defend it no matter how you put it.

The submarines will do a much better job of that. A single aircraft carrier will only be operational a certain proportion of the time, and is relatively vulnerable to various threats without a powerful supporting fleet. While several attack submarines will deter an enemy from even approaching Brazilian waters.

If Brazil wants to strike an enemy far off shore, the new Gripen NG and KC-767 tankers it is ordering will provide this capability.

>>32996327

>Hell, even the US is thinking about moving to a baby carrier half the size of a ford but with 35bs
That would be in addition to full-sized flat-tops, not a replacement.

>>33003451

That is correct.

IDK why i said moving, more like augmenting their CSG.

5 fucking burkes though, jesus christ.

>>33003523

>5 fucking burkes though
You mean the price of a CVN?

>>33003340
Which trolling were you? I think there was a bit on both sides.

I think most of us just want to see /k/ descend into autismal chaos.

>>32998306
What the fuck are you chucking? it entered its mid life renovation as it was planned since aeons.

>>33003523
Are they really only proposing 5 more Burkes?

>>33003577
I don't care what they build as long as my company gets a piece of it.

>>33003577
>>33003606

No.

Navy was tasked with coming up with alternative battle group make ups for funding. In 2030 they envisioned a Augmented CSG to have 1 supercarrier, 1 CV-LX (think LHA but F-35B only, about 35 of them), 2 LCS, 5 fucking burkes (one of which a flight III), and a bunch of LHA's and other aux's.

>>33003606

No I was literally asking if "5 fucking burkes" was a reference to the cost of building a Ford.

With that said they're certainly building many more than 5. It seems they'll go on forever.

>>33003618

Ah, okay. But that would basically be combining CSGs and ARGs.

>>33003630
>Ah, okay. But that would basically be combining CSGs and ARGs.

Nah, because the CV-LX is a new design based on LHA, JUST for F-35B's. ITs not meant to be a ship to shore type of battle group, its meant to be a sea control battlegroup.

They actually have a """new"""" ARG/ESG type battlegroup too. (its basically the same)

>>32999993
You seem to have a very poor grasp of every party involved.

>>33003605
While I don't understand the hate the US seems to have for the Charles de Gaulle (is it because it's the only non-US CATOBAR carrier?), the fact that the french have no alternative means that it's overexploited.

>>33003733
Overexploited sure but nowhere near dead.

>>32995700
>South and Central America really has little use for a standing military if we virtually guarantee their safety from all outside influences.
>except america
>outsourcing your self-defense
The army and navy have guaranteed our country's territorial integrity since forever. Why get rid of it? That's like getting rid of the second amendment because you'd rather depend on cops. I believe I don't need to tell you what happens when the cops go on a strike.

If we were to depend on foreign aid for defending ourselves we might as well just get annexed already, at least that way we'd get some nice perks.

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>>33003143
>war raging on the south atlantic
>argentinian planes fly all the way from the falklands teather to brazil instead of just going back to Argentina

Brazil was more than happy to have the brits kicking the argies ass, both dictatorships were eager to show off as the strongest in the region and the war was perfect for them

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>>33003143
>argies planes landing in Brazil on emergencies

Are very, very, very I am white my friend hero Argentine pilot has just flow 400 miles to bomb the evil imperialist British empire, but finds himself in trouble: "oh noes my plane is shot up, its is an emergencies. Cos it emergencies I can not return to base 400 miles away, must set course for nearest Brazilian land mass 1,400 miles away so can carry out emergencies."

And the Argentinas wonder why they lost the war.

Here's a short write-up on it I just found: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7697/brazil-pulls-the-plug-on-its-only-aircraft-carrier

>>33000798
Best defense is good offense.

>>33001168
Nothing controls ocean like old fashioned big carriers.
Must have good ASW support, obv.

>>33002165
Gotta go with the other guy.
Naval architecture is apparently beyond your comprehension. As is shipbuilding. As is how to run a flight deck.
You ate just wrong, ok?

>>33007462

Interesting how there was a plan to refit the old guy

I for one would have loved the idea of a 1960 carrier still kicking around with A-4 skyhawks well into the 21st century

>>33002175
It's not the plane, it's the training, infrastructure, and pilot selection

>>33002232
The USS Nimitz is an old design, based on a 1950 design. Naval archotecture is a mature science.
The details needed to perform and learn carrier ops are not that dependent on the basic design.
But now we know you are ignorant and argumentative, we can ignore your blatherings.

>>33007664

Well, there WAS a plan.

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toot toot

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>>32995810
Goddamnit Carlos...

these people have a problem with crime inside their country, the fuck were they doing with a carrier in the first place?

>>33011661
You could say the same about the USA, famlad.

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>>32999896
>This doesn't rule out offensive use of Ekranoplans, which coincidentally the Russian government has pledged to bring back.

This pleases me greatly.

>>32995461
Thailand originally wanted a heli carrier from Bremer Vulkan, but german export laws made it impossible, as the story goes apparently. So Thailand settled for the Spanish design, since they were also offering cheap harriers.

>>33012302
Honestly sad we don't have equivalents.

>>33011661
Go back to your wall America, you are nº1 in prision population on the fragging planet

>>32998306
>CdG enter mid life renovation as planned after a first half with more thn 50% disponibility
>"She's at the end of her life and is about to fall apart."

As far as small-ish carriers can go, and once her youth problems got fixed, CdG has a fucking stellar track record.

>>33000949
>Are there still plans to deepen the Volga-Don canal so that larger ships can move between the Caspian and the Black/Mediterranean seas?
I don't know to be honest, I'm more interested in cold war era Soviet strategy.

I don't imagine it would be high on their priorities, having moved away from large naval forces - if they start building more Kirovs, then it'd be guaranteed.

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>>33012844
I'm not talking about CdG, She's an OK platform only limited by the fact that that she's a bit too small to be fully effective. I was talking about Sao Paolo. CdG was the only French carrier pic I had.

>>33002247
If this was 1823 sure but since then we have gotten long range artillery cannons, helicopters, and long range missiles on ships so no the coast is not the usefulness limit of ships these days

>>33014173
Ah, yes. Poor old Sao Paulo deserves her rest.

>>32995386
Brazilian economy really is belly up. No wonder those patriotic Brazilian posters have vanished.

>>33003630
What's ARG stand for?

>>33021439
Amphibious Ready Group.

>>32995386
Why doesn't china buy this off them to study?

>>33021935
Because they don't need to study an obsolete frog carrier.

>>33001884
submarines have much greater tactical usage for Brazil's naval needs tho...

>>32995386

The Olympics were a mistake

>>33022746
This desu, the world cup too.

Got my shit beaten up in the street during the riots.

>>33022746
>>33023805
they took all our money and left us bankrupt
fuck Fifa and Fuck olympics

>>33019167
>patriotic Brazilian posters
those are the worst, I am Brazilian and I hate those fucks

>>33022374
truth, but the point is, Brazil should be manufacturing those, we have the structure, I thought we even had a contract with France about that.

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>>33024283
Second worst.

>>33024299
in combat, that dog is worth ten patriotic Brazilian posters.
DON'T YOU DISRESPECT PATRIOTIC DOG!

>>33003194
No seriously you have no idea how spending in this country works, do you?

We easily waste more money on welfare than on all of the other things on the yearly budget. Even a little of it taken away (5-15%) and evenly distributed would massively improve every other sector just because of how poorly everything else is funded compared to welfare.

>>33024283
Shouldn't you be over at /lgbt/ or wherever the nu-males gather?

>>33007664

So I know this post is two days old, but due to my autism I feel compelled to apologize for only just noticing that you did write "was a plan" and not "is a plan".

>>33003618

>2 LCS, 5 fucking burkes
kek

What about cruisers though?

>>32999433
wtf I hate Brazil now

>>32995810
don't worry, soon enough it will turn into BICS

>brazillian military

one CSG can subdue the entire brazillian navy and air force with ease in a conflict

hell, one CVBG could subdue the entire combined latin america military power

>>33029329

More like IC.

>>33029810
-R
-IC
-BS

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>>33000652
Sweet lord, I can't fucking breath!

>>33007565
True but how many nations have the necessary economy to throw their hat into that ring? As far as I can tell, 2. United States of America, and People's Republic of China. For the rest of the world, their concerns are much more coastal, and having a sort of mobile base (which is the kind of role an LHD is designed for) is much more relevant god bless the usa confucius bless the china

>>32995424
How will they invade Africa?

>>32995386
I wouldn't laugh at them for this at all. It seems like a smart decision.

Their country is in an absolutely shitty state. Crime, including violent crime, is endemic. You have entire cities occasionally getting burned and looted by gangs of rampaging nigger thugs. The police operate as death squads in order to keep the drug gangs under control. Large portions of the population live in shantytowns under the authority of teenaged gang members who rape, rob, and murder as they please.

A civil war of sorts---between the police/military/state on one side and the drugs gangs on the other---has been ongoing in Brazil for years now.

More people were killed in Brazil in 2016 than in war-torn Syria in that same year.

How can a mongrel Third World shithole like Brazil justify spending millions of dollars on an aircraft carrier, a power projection tool, when its people are being robbed, raped, and murdered back home? Besides, those shitty fighter jets are nothing compared to what the Americans, Chinese, Russians, Israelis, Japanese, or just about any European military could bring to bear.

Parading around in a fancy ship for the sake of national pride is retarded when your country is a carcass rotting from within.

>>33033866
Why would Brazil invade itself ?

>>33033937
This

>>33033937
This. Besides Brazil has border to like 10 countries or so. Naval power should not be their top concern

>>33025526
bolsomito, u mad?
good.

>>33033937

the fun part is that the only countries who care about Brazilia are Russians and Chinese. everyone else is just happily clapping to their suffering and blames it all on comunism when it is actually all americunts fault.

>>33033937
As a Brazilian i can say you right.

But things are getting hot over here, people are in boiling point a civil war is close as never, and media keep lying saying everything is fine.

>ES Military Police still on strike and Media say nothing more
>Rj Military Police is close to enter too


Civil War soon.

>>33034273
Shut up.

Brazil is a shithole thanks to 10 years of Socialist Goverment.

Brazil is a shit thanks to Brazil only.

>>33034295

i remeber when Moot was crying like a stupid bitch after Brazilians took over the 4chan and americunts baned the brazilian servers here.

>>32995424
Aircraft carrier is quite helpful in bluewater far off the coast under both offensive and defensive operation. And Brazil has wide territorial water and EEZ.

Heard of a french project to buy it back and use it as a pontoon for carrier take off and landing training.

>>33034273
Hard to find any place in america where the US are blameless, tho.

>>33034297
>Brazil is a shithole thanks to 10 years of Socialist Goverment.

shut the fuck yourself. Brazil is a shithole because americunts started the fucking political and economical wars against it since WW1. the "international companies" are sucking it dry and all you fucks can come up with is "comunists did it".

>>33034319
If you are a Brazilian im glady to tell you that soon you neck will be very tigh in a rope.

And if you are not, just shut up and stop being a nigger.

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>>33034335
>and stop being a nigger.

rolf.. you do realize what it means to say this shit in Brazilia you fucking jewshit?

The armed forces are one of the few institutions that gets as much money as they want from the federal government, no matter what. So it isn't really about being broke, that thing was useless, outdated and a money sink.

>>32999548
>>32999464
No we don't.

>>33034295
>Civil War soon.
you probably have 12 years.
I'm over 40, I seen worst and still no "civil war"
get real, punk

>>33034343
>brazilia
porcos do mesmo chiqueiro,você e todos esses putos vagabundos que se tornaram politicos.
fica com essa idea de que os EUA só nos fudeu,volta pra venezuela palhaço.

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>>33034377
>porcos do mesmo chiqueiro,você e todos esses putos vagabundos que se tornaram politicos.
>fica com essa idea de que os EUA só nos fudeu,volta pra venezuela palhaço.


JARJARJARJARJARJARJARJARJAR

>>33003186
Holy shit that's so funny

>>32995461
Nah, we haven't turned our carriers helicopter only, we're just waiting for you yanks to stop mucking about and make the planes you sold us work...

>>33033937

Are you saying that Brazil is on the verge of becoming the next Mexico?

>>33034211
5 star comeback

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>>33033937
>More people were killed in Brazil in 2016 than in war-torn Syria in that same year.
And if their populations were similar that would mean something

>>33034381
is that pewdipie?

>>32995463

Why would we buy something that we were about to throw away? Even us didn't understand why Brazil wanted to buy it.

it would cost less to buy a new one, than repairing it.

>>33001862
>reversed engineered the AGM-45 shrike it was carrying
oh man, I just spewed Mt Dew all over my screen. that was a good one