Are mortars still relevant?

>>32966393
Same with artillery in general.

The most there is to improve on these days are multi-thousand-dollar "smart" projectiles and/or improved fire solution software.

The real money is in counter artillery/rocket solutions.

>>32966393
>Relevant
Yes.
>Y tho
Highly portable piece of cheap indirect fire.

Yes. Indirect fire is extremely effective. Mortars are quick to use, quick to react and are extremely effective with a spotter.

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>>32966393
>It's perfected therefore it's not relevant

>>32966393
yes
t. mortar nco

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>>32966393
they are more effective then hand and rifle grenades, and more portable then field artillery.

they have their place.
normie book /FUNKER530/videos/1381380941913538/

>>32966498
High arc of fire is a benefit in the mountains and similiar regions as well.

Mortars messed up the guys in "Secret Soldiers of Benghazi". The movie showed off how the dude could hold off hundreds of Mohumeds with AKs, but not when they used a mortar from behind a building.

>>32966405
/thread

>>32966393
yes. it's the only non propelled gun setup that hasn't been made obsolete by increasingly effective counter battery tech.

>>32966712
>SPGs are obsolete
lmao

>>32966716
The guy said "non-propelled guns". Do you not read well?

>>32966738
Clearly not. Though towed guns aren't truly obsolete either. They just require a shit-ton more work to function effectively in a modern battlefield.

>>32966757
True. I am not an artilleryman, but the thought of using towed artillery against a peer force gives me the creeps. I wonder how long conventional towed guns would last in such an environment.

>>32966771
they don't really. see Ukraine. luckily for thee guys the enemy is equally incompetent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKKKrqoGU7s

>>32966771
As long as they're dispersed, shoot and scoot and have proficient, fast crews and are used doctrinally sensibly, they will last.

>>32966786
You don't see how long they've fired or waited there though. The footage cuts, so for all we know they might've dicked around for a dozen minutes.

>>32966811
they did. ~ 5 mintues in the full video iirc.

>>32966826
Yeah, there's why they got counter batteried. They have a light, rapid-fire gun-mortar and a car at the ready, yet they don't scoot the instant the fire mission is done. It's simply incompetence.

>>32966786
What cannon is that? I never knew there were clip fed ones

>>32967002

2B9 Vasilek mortar, not a cannon.

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>>32967002
Russia and China have been using 82mm clip fed mortar for ages
pic is china PCP001

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>>32967021

>>32967013
It's a gun-mortar.

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>>32966393
>up to hundreds of times the range of hand grenades
>no need to be within line-of-sight
>more portable than howitzers
>*way* cheaper than CAS & can be just as accurate if FO and the mortar crews know what they are doing
>can kill MBTs from miles away
>can hit targets behind cover
yes

>>32967002
>>32967021
breech-loaded self-propelled mortars are the future of indirect fire support
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwDlOdLZVwY

>>32967106
>*way* cheaper than CAS & can be just as accurate if FO and the mortar crews know what they are doing
Even more with the right munitions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM395_Precision_Guided_Mortar_Munition

>>32967126
Company mortars are still important though. Can't beat that organic fire support.

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>>32967126
>no HEAT
too bad, the AMOS and NEMO have a god tier stabilizer

Aren't mortars being used a bunch in recent Middle Eastern wars?

Doesn't that make them still relevant by default?

>>32967130
of course, but when the company mortars aren't enough, 120mm mortars mounted on vehicles can be moved from A to B & start raining death on the target faster than a 155mm howitzer battery & get the same results and then some

>>32967204
Yeah, because the 120mm mortars have to be moved. The 155 guns can just sit back, rotate and fire.

>>32967213
>Yeah, because
But*. A battery can support a far larger amount of units than a mortar battalion can.

>>32967213
Until you fight a competent enemy. The fixed firebase is a relic in that scenario.

>>32967213
which works when the enemy doesn't have the ability to return fire, by the time the enemy can pinpoint the location from which the mortar fire came they are no longer there, a towed howitzer battery on the other hand might still be in the middle of getting the hell out.

Are the 107mm dead for good?

>>32967237
They don't need to be fixed, just standing at the ready, hidden and waiting.

>>32967253
And that's what the SPGs are for.

>>32967295
Semantics.

>>32967373
When the difference is dying or not, hardly.

>>32967194
>no HEAT
The Pansarsprängvinggranat m/94 has a shaped charge plus passive IR homing.

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>>32967412
do you have a pic of that?

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>>32967431
Can be fired by AMOS or any other 120mm mortar

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>>32967444
cool

can it be used direct fire?

>>32967457
I don't know, but I since it's programmable I assume it could be set for direct fire when used with AMOS.

It can fire 7.5km if an optional rocket module is added by the way

>>32967379
You're still immobile and vulnerable to counterfire, no matter whether you're hidden before you fire.

>>32967106
>kill mbts
>3-10kgs of explosive penetrating what over 13MJ of kinetic energy cannot fucking do and somehow doing so when the blast isn't even fucking focused

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post sexy self propelled armoured mortar

>>32967536
>put a cap designed for the express purpose of delaying the detonation upon impact on the much less armoured deck of an armoured vehicle on the round
>fire the round
>the round hits the deck of an armoured vehicle
>the cap delays the detonation by a fraction of a second
>the full force of the impact + the explosive power of the round punch through the armor and the remaining force along with shrapnel from the penetration/spalling wreak havoc inside the vehicle
this isn't exactly rocket science.

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>>32967558
this counts as a self-propelled mortar, right?

>>32967621
>low velocity round with pathetic explosive yield somehow penetrating several cm of armor
???
You'd think people would do this more often if it killed tanks that easily, just hand out mortars to platoons instead of AT weapons, nice logic retard.

>>32967724
A mortar hitting a moving vehicle is just a tad bit more difficult, m8.

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>>32967730
Hitting a moving vehicle with anything is already difficult. Its stupid to think that a couple kilos of HE can do what millions of dollars of research into AT weapons and shaped charges can kill the toughest thing on the battlefield.

>>32967724
>You'd think people would do this more often if it killed tanks that easily, just hand out mortars to platoons instead of AT weapons, nice logic retard.
if it didn't work, then why is it that these delaying caps even exist & why do (at least some-) militaries have a specific code for tanks tat is used exclusively in communications between FO and artillery/heavy mortars, use of which results in the rounds being fitted with those delaying caps?

>>32967785
>Hitting a moving vehicle with anything is already difficult
Not with missiles.
>Its stupid to think that a couple kilos of HE can do what millions of dollars of research into AT weapons and shaped charges can kill the toughest thing on the battlefield.
Except that both can do it. Tanks have shit for top armour, which is why a lot of modern ATGM systems have top attack modes and why 120mm mortars and artillery shells can destroy a tank with a hit.

>>32967841
There is a big fucking difference between ATGMs and a fucking mortar

>>32967892
Yeah, the ATGM's probably got just one chance, while an entire company can fire their mortars.

>>32967892
Soviets tested the protection provided by their ERA by shelling a T-72 turret fitted with it, the protection was calculated to be around 400mm RHA against HEAT, with the same ERA that when installed on the frontal hull provides 900mm protection against HEAT, the frontal protection of the T-72B turret fitted with Kontakt-1 is over 1100mm against HEAT, meaning the turret is quite clearly tougher to penetrate than the hull, which suggests that the hull deck fitted with ERA has *at best* protection equal to 400mm rolled homogenous steel armor, take the ERA away and you can cut the calculated protection by at least 60%

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>>32967724
But thanks Obama we can't have nice things.

>>32967995
oh, also the turret from the test? it was hit by one round, the turret wasn't penetrated, but it was dented, the caliber of the round wasn't mentioned but considering how much Soviets loved 152mm that would be my guess, which has about the same explosive power as 120mm mortar round, put a delaying cap/penetrator on that round and the detonation *will* penetrate the turret.

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>>32966393
81mm mortars were used against flip rebels in 2013

In fact, they was used extensively because they are organic to infantry and thus quicker to deploy

>>32968136
81mm is nice, didn't like humping one in an exercise where we trained with all of the weapons in our company (except for sniper rifles), but directing their fire is always good fun, especially when the stabilising shots overshoot and hit trees at the far end of the range mid-trunk.

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shipping to fort Benin : DDDDDD in August as 11C, how true is this post?

>>32968237
that's what happens when you give marines expensive toys & leave them without supervision, not sure about Ain't Real Men Yet...

>>32968237
I don't understand. Has this dude never been around a group of more than 2 men?

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>>32968237
Literally sounds like your average military setting. Wonder if that's a woman writing that.
>wearing clothing wrong
>nudity or close to it
>fucking around for shits and giggles
>stressful, rapid action when it's required

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>>32968321

>>32968299
>for a woman
>dude
?

>>32968364
Well, I guess that explains it.

>>32968364
>>32968376
No, since it could just be a "women in the military thread", where someone made the suggestion that women fit gun crews.

>>32968360
Ah, the M98 RSLKy. A beautiful thing.

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>>32967106
>>32967621
>>32967841
>can kill MBTs from miles away

First of all mortars are an area fire weapon and due to the time of flight being at minimum about 15 sec they are very difficult to hit a specific target, especially a moving one. Additionally mortar rounds are HE fragmentation and aren't shaped so they penetrate armor. When mortars do SEAD missions the best they can hope for is damaging stuff like optics or the radar housing of a ZSU. Mortars are fairly low velocity as well.

>>32967796
>delaying caps
First of all they are called fuses. Delay settings are so the round sticks into the ground before it detonates so that it does more damage to bunkers or entrenchments dug into the ground not armor.

>>32968136
What country is this?

>>32968237
I was an 0341, pretty accurate especially for 81's, who usually get left alone by the command and can fuck around more.

>>32968463
The country that flips come from

>>32968463
>First of all they are called fuses.
I'm not talking about a fuse, what I am talking about is a cap put on artillery/mortar rounds when a fire mission specifies the target consisting of armored vehicles.

>>32968517
Half of the Flip population is in the USMC or Navy

>>32968522
What's the name of them in Finnish?

>>32968541
Mortar Capinikkkeennnennekikenennkienn

>>32968541
don't remember, nor have I ever seen one so I can't describe them either (I was cross-trained for FO -team after my national service & didn't get to see all the cool stuff those trained during their national service got to see), but since everyone I know who *was* trained for FO during their service knows of them & keeps talking about them, they most certainly do exist.

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>>32968522
Like from WWII AT guns?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APCBC

I dont think anybody uses them anymore and I don't think they ever had them for mortars because mortars suck at AT.

>>32968529
Not so much in the cream corn, but can confirm heavy flip infiltration into navy.

>>32968529
Almost never had flips in the corps. Our brown people are Hispanics.

>>32968629
I think the concept he's talking about is some sort of cap that delays the fuze setting off for a split second.

>>32968629
>I dont think anybody uses them anymore and I don't think they ever had them for mortars because mortars suck at AT.
120mm mortar rounds should be just as effective as 152mm howitzer rounds, as for not being used anymore, the code for identifying the target as armoured vehicles still remains in the books after the code list was recently updated to fit the current doctrine.

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>>32968655
As I said earlier mortars fuses do have delay settings on the fuse, but that is so they sink into soft ground before going off. He also said not fuses. I think something is lost in translation.

>>32968676
I suppose so. You still have to hit a vehicle which mortars dont do very well, best you can realistically hope for is damaging sensitive parts with frag and suppressing supporting infantry.

Do you use code words in your call for fire from the FO?
We would just say it plainly but we always had crypto on our comms.

>>32968209
it's "Wiesel". stop raping German words. we got enough rape going on here.

>>32968629
Is that MOOT holding the saw?

>>32968773
>Do you use code words in your call for fire from the FO?
>We would just say it plainly but we always had crypto on our comms.
we use an encrypted text message system, the fire missions are primarily transmitted as standardised messages that contain own coordinates, target coordinates, type of the target (infantry, vehicles, tanks) & what it's doing (standing still, retreating, advancing) plus how much hurt the FO wants to rain on the target, the system allows feeding the fire mission directly into a ballistic computer on the receiving end, verbal commands are used only if the messaging device breaks (which is highly unlikely considering it's manufactured by Nokia)

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>>32968856
forgot picture

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>>32968856
>>32968905
>we use an encrypted text message system
>Sanla
Get with the times, Grandpa, Sanla hasn't been in use for years now.

>>32968910
actually it is still used by reserve units, and even if it wasn't, the new MATI -system is designed with backwards combatibility in mind, meaning messages can be sent back and forth between a MATI -computer and a SANLA

OP waited around a year to remake his thread?

https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/29841878/

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>>32968946
>actually it is still used by reserve units
I guess it's better to let the old farts use what they're familiar with than try to teach them the wonders of 21st century technology.
>and even if it wasn't, the new MATI -system is designed with backwards combatibility in mind, meaning messages can be sent back and forth between a MATI -computer and a SANLA
I'm quite sure it's compatible with a lot more than just SANLA, assuming you have the correct decryption methods, but I won't go in depth, considering OPSEC.

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>>32968463
Malaysia

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>>32968856
>>32968905
That's pretty neat, I'm jealous. We always used spoken word. Supposedly Vector DAGR's can be hooked up to radios along with LHMBC's and they can pass data over the net, but we never did it and nobody knew how.

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>>32968999
Is that what people call as knee mortar?

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>>32969001
I've heard Americans aren't really into radio discipline in general. Guess it's a part of that doctrinal assumed superiority.

Indirect fire is huge. This isn't even a debate. If you don't think so, you're probably a fucking idiot. Some goons fortify a building into a makeshift bunker, or they have a network of trenches. The only way you're going to break their fortifications is a combination of indirect, recoilless rifles and AT launchers, and air support if you have it. It never makes sense to move in on someone who dug in without softening them up first, unless you have shitloads of men you can put through a meatgrinder. see >>32966405 as well

>>32968905

Nothing is worse than dozing off and then suddenly hearing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgU5Zp-u9xY

>>32969052
Was in Arrow excersice. Can confirm that Americans cant shut the fuck up in the radio.

>>32969001
>Supposedly Vector DAGR's can be hooked up to radios along with LHMBC's and they can pass data over the net, but we never did it and nobody knew how.
Yeah, they can do that. The FDF has a specific fire control system on the computers that allows direct data links to the firing units from forward observers. Target coordinates, distance from the FO, all that jazz. Allows for near-instant metre-accurate targeting, even though such accuracy is pointless.

>>32969121
Can they into camouflaging and dispersion either? I've heard they like to bunch up and leave their vehicles out in the open as well.

>>32969139
Apparently using natural things like bushes to camouflage vehicles is new thing to them. They are relearning the skill in Poland now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj2qEO12v7o

>>32969001
fun fact about the device: it has a built-in interference function (for messing with the enemy)

>>32969100
I downloaded that on my phone during my service and would occasionally prank the guy with the radio.

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>>32969164
They're going to be up for a rude awakening if they don't learn this shit and end up in a modern war against an equal, or close to, enemy.

>>32969121
Did you get to take part in any training battles? How did Finns fare against the Americans, how did the Americans fare?
I've heard they had some issues with the large amount of AT ordnance in Finnish ranks, is that true?

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>>32969052
>>32969121
IDK how we are compared to other militaries, but all our comm is encrypted which if it's secure is fine and if it gets decrypted by the enemy you're fucked no matter if you use text or voice.

>>32969139
>>32969139
Nope.

The whole Middle Eastern conflict stole away a lot of the common sense shit we use to do.

Though the combat bat's and lower in Europe did retain some of the sneaky skills (mostly atleast)


>>32969001
>>32969001
We passed data over radios constantly for fire missions in my old FA unit

Souce> Signalman

When I left Germany we were working on Fires support using german data and vice versa.

>>32969121
>>32969121
We really do talk to much about everything because "Muh safety"

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>>32969317
Yeah, but decryption and channel hopping do not matter one bit when enemy SIGINT is sitting in a bush and triangulates your massive radiation, sending the combined fires of five batteries on your head.

>>32969052
At least they didn't just captured videos or pics willy nilly and post it on social media

Arabs and niggers are notorious for this. Wanna do combat patrols? Lemme selfie with mah niggas so the whole world can see us operatin'

>>32969219
To put in simply. They said shit in radio what finns either yell or do with hand signals.

>>32969317
in FDF we have bopth encrypted and unencrypted radios in use (yes, the ancient LV217 (AN/PRC-77 for you 'muricans) and the digital version LV217M are still in use, that's a fact), and because of that we have code charts for verbal communications & at least in my company we have a policy of always using the codes when talking over radio even if we have been issued LV241s (VIRVE is another thing since it can't be used unencrypted unlike the radios), not sure if this is true for every unit.

>>32969471
>>32969471
oh lawd, those are old.

No thankyou pls.

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>>32969365
Moot point if you're shooting, it would matter for OP's and other sneaky shit. What do you propose as an alternative soup cans and string? Carrier pigeons?

>>32969471
Code charts sounds sketchy as fuck. How often do they roll over?

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>>32969471
>yes, the ancient LV217 (AN/PRC-77 for you 'muricans) and the digital version LV217M are still in use, that's a fact
Holy shit, where? I never even saw one during my service.
>not sure if this is true for every unit.
It is. Codes are used everywhere, at least in Kainuu Brigade, radio discipline with short, pre-planned messages. Discipline's tighter down south, as far as I know.,

>>32969490
>Moot point if you're shooting, it would matter for OP's and other sneaky shit
Advance to contact IS sneaky shit. You are to remain hidden until the moment YOU decide to engage the enemy.
>What do you propose as an alternative soup cans and string? Carrier pigeons?
Good planning and orders, runners, initiative. The FDF can do it, so why not the USMil?

>>32967536
protip: mortars hit the top of the tank, not the front.

>>32969490
>What do you propose as an alternative soup cans and string? Carrier pigeons?
we use "illegal" amount of cable wherever possible to minimize the use of radios, I was originally a signalist in a HQ battalion's signals company, preparing the backup radio network and testing it constantly but never actually using it was not fun (luckily we had a dedicated team for putting up the 5 meter antenna while my squad had another job)

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>>32969575
>we use "illegal" amount of cable wherever possible to minimize the use of radios
>building 8km of cable connections in thigh high snows in every AO
Shit sucks, I tell you.

Are narrow beam direct LOS transmissions used by any armed forces?

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>Train a war elephant
>Strap a dozen mortars to its back
>Attach a rope so it pulls all the trigger-analogues at once
>Send elephant into battle
>Sexy war elephant battle
>Hold on gotta fap
>Okay
>Elephant pulls the rope and roars
>Mortar rain slaughters enemy as the elephant advances with a custom-made M-16

>>32969490
>Code charts sounds sketchy as fuck. How often do they roll over?
depends on how often the brass wants to, since the codes consist of X number of numbers and letters & each code stands for either a word, number or a letter one chart should be good for quite a while (also the guys with copies of the charts have orders to destroy them, by eating them if they have to, should they be in danger of being captured, usually only signalists, squad leaders and platoon leaders have copies & making your own copies is strictly forbidden)

>>32969613
>8km
neljä sanaa: Kelojen Yö, 8km is nothing

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>>32968321
>you will never operate this hard

>>32968854
No, its his grandfather Thomas Poole

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>>32969679
Mate, I'm a signalier NCO, I know kelojen yö. 25 hours of pulling cable in crotch deep snow, then taking it apart. It's just a different kind of shittiness when it's a continuous part of military excercises and your role in general.

>>32969524
We *did*, until ~2005, when we had to massively re-train for COIN.

There are serious opportunity costs to training for one type of combat or another; as much as you'd like to, you can't make one person an up-to-date expert in everything at the same time.

When folks talk about re-training for the heavy fight, or moving away from COIN, this is the sort of stuff that they're talking about. Knowing how to recognize signs that the village elder is working for the bad guys and sniff out the ambush they have planned for your foot patrol is a different set of skills from high-intensity mechanized warfare with heavy artillery support and complex EW.

>>32969704
>those berets
damn reed niggers, so slow even their jokes are 20 years behind everyone else, but what can you expect from a bunch of gay fennoswedes...

>>32969733
I thought they were newsboy caps at first

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>>32969524
>Advance to contact IS sneaky shit.
No shit. I've mostly been talking about sending CFF's over radio in the context of the thread.

I ain't gonna lie the war on terror taught us a lot of bad habits when fighting a near peer enemy. I wont even get into our over-reliance and assumption of air superiority.

>The FDF can do it, so why not the USMil?
Cuz we're expeditionary and offensively oriented, not defensively focused in our own backyard that you've had 70+ year to fortify. Not talking shit on ya'll, just different philosophies.

>>32969575
We still have wireman MOS but they just end up being drivers or doing regular comm shit.

Since I have the ear of a couple of Finnbros what's going on in pic related

>>32969741
>you've had 70+ year to fortify
It's not fortified though. Static combat just doesnt' work these days.

>>32969741
>Since I have the ear of a couple of Finnbros what's going on in pic related
"Whistling"
"TAKE COVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER"

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>>32969752
Thank you for your service

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this is now an FDF -thread

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>>32969776
Could you tell the Marines to stop making those awful Scooby comics as a reward?

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>>32969804
>that pic
more like Somali Defence Forces

>>32969820
Terminal Lance or Untied Status Marin Crops?

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>>32969846
Untied Status Marin Crops, TL is nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRohQ6rwxvc

>>32969804
BLEACHED

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>>32969846
>and here you thought *your* officer candidate was a huge dick

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>>32969861
>pic

>>32969219
>Did you get to take part in any training battles? How did Finns fare against the Americans, how did the Americans fare?
AFAIK two finnish recon APCs managed to stop armored assault that contained leo A4's and strykers

why the fuck wouldn't they be relevant
>sand niggers behind cover
>sarge we forgot (insert heavy weapon here)
>dude call up the mortar guy
>mortar guy dumps 120mm freedom on sand niggers behind cover

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>>32969962
>AFAIK two finnish recon APCs managed to stop armored assault

>>32969962
>AFAIK two finnish recon APCs managed to stop armored assault that contained leo A4's and strykers
how do the finns get away with this shit

>>32970026
with M72 LAWs, APILASes and/or NLAWs

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>>32969861
Whats wrong with it? I get a hearty chuckle from it occasionally. It does try to hard sometimes but so does TL.

>>32969997
what's he saying in this one?

>>32969985
Probobally would be 60's or 81's. 120's are fuckhueg. Not by arty standards but by infantry crew served standards.

>>32970125
>what's he saying in this one?
literally:
spirit: good
fitness: hard
it's part of a cadence, the next part is (name of own platoon) best!

>>32970125
>what's he saying in this one?
spirit good
condition hard (=fitness good)
best i can do

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>>32970026
I'd assume ambush with AT mines to stop the movement, APILAS/NLAW to attrite, then mortars or artillery on top. The SOP for this kind of stuff.
We took out a Swedish mechanized platoon in our endwar with a weakened platoon sized force of supply soldiers doing it like this.

>>32970175
>it's part of a cadence, the next part is (name of own platoon) best!
usually its "sissi paras" though that might just be recce things since we get the havu

>>32970125
How close are 120s to 155mm in terms of effect?

I keep hearing that they're very close, due to mortar rounds being able to use thinner walls.

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>>32970254
Similar from what I understand. I've always thought mortars are roughly equivalent to the next higher size of arty in effect.
60mm~75mm
81mm~105mm
120mm~155mm

I could be wrong, I've never seen I side by side in real life.

>>32966712
Non propelled guns are required in mountainous terrain, it's much easier to get a non propelled gun up a mountain with a help than to try and lift a spg or drive it up.

>>32969490
>ISISsexslavebrutallymurdered.jpg

>>32970485
underrated post

>>32970254
In anti-personnel effectiveness a 120mm mortar roughly matches a 155 shell due to the angle and whatnot.

>>32970190
>mfw a bunch of cooks kick some armor niggers' asses

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>>32970909
The only cooks in the company are those who make food for the company itself and they didn't take part. Cooking's an entirely company level thing these days and supply bases just resupply the foodstuffs.
The torjuntaosasto was composed maybe half out of the slightly more militarily trained command unit (signaliers and HQ troops) and the rest from the resupply platoon, with a few drivers and repair dudes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqq1bCraBBI

>>32970981
>signalists
>"supply"
this triggers a camel

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>>32971013
My signalists, yes. Kelaperseitä, mostly, with 2 privates trained more in depth with the station itself.

>>32967621
>this isn't exactly rocket science.

It's mortar science.

>>32969042

60mm Paratrooper Mortar.

>>32968136

I would prefer to use the terms of "Filipino Terrorist" instead of rebel.

>>32971458
>I would prefer to use the terms of "Filipino Terrorist" instead of rebel.
Freedom fighter.

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>>32971675

Yeah. Freedom fighter that kidnapping civilian, attacking foreign country in 1989, 1950, 2001, 2013, robbing a local fishermen. Plus becoming new-age Somali pirates. I'm personally involved in 2013 operation. And I tell you. You seeing nothing yet.

>>32966393
>useless optic set up
>nothing to aim the mortar
>packages wrapped on the charge holder that will fall a dozen of meter in front of the ordnance
>also enjoy getting all dirt from the blast on your underwear sitting like that
Who draw that shit ?

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>>32966393
>is man portable in-direct fire still relevant

Saged

>>32968905
I fucking love electronic message units and burst encoders.It makes me sad that most armies abandoned simple rugged texting systems.

here's a parsa, it's basically a smaller version of the terminal in your pic

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>>32972864
forgot pic

>>32967269
>Are the 107mm dead for good?
Whut? Hell no they're everywhere. Lots of good footage of them came out of Syria and Libya

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>>32968000
BRING BACK DPICM GODDAMNIT

>>32969317
>but all our comm is encrypted which if it's secure is fine and if it gets decrypted by the enemy you're fucked no matter if you use text or voice
Electronic recon + tactical ballistic missile = major emitters at the front or close to it, get raped. Some kind of LPI encrypted text system sounds far better than sending multiple seconds worth of voice.

>>32973084
Short text messages are still considered safe as long as you don't stay in the same position for long periods of time.
Based on what I've read on modern direction finding, fixed and tuned stations can locate a transmitter in seconds but only in certain conditions:
1.relatively good s/n ratio
2.several stations are in good positions relative to the transmitter
3.stations know exactly what they are looking for
4.there are not many large obstacles between transmitter and station

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>>32966771
>>32966786
>>32966811
>>32966826
>>32966848
>counterbattery fire in 5 minutes
>M777 howitzer takes about 2:30 to get ready for transport
>older howitzers can take 10 minutes to get ready for transport
>counterbattery capabilities have advanced so far that how easily a howitzer can be prepared for transport is a matter of life and death
>even with a newer howitzer you only have a gap of 2 minutes between the first shot and having to start getting it ready for transport

>>32966393
Mortars are god tier. The fact that every Stryker infantry company is armed with 2x 120mm mortars is a big portion of their effectiveness.

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>>32967640
STUBBY!!!

>>32973439
>fly a M777 in slung under a helicopter
>have a week before self propelled artillery arrives to be able to counter battery you

>>32973034
DPUCM hasn't gone away, and the new blast frag warheads are superior

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>Are mortars still relevant?
yup. Pic related.

Explosions on command is never going to be irrelevant.

>>32974826
>new blast frag warheads are superior
Not for what DPICM does.

>>32972454
schoolgirl pantsu make war better

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Just a question.

1) Wouldn't be more wiser to put a light (60mm) or medium (80mm) mortar system on a tank? I mean not every situation for example MOUT or reconnaissance (by force) could be solved by common tank and HMG fire. The Israeli put a light 60mm mortar (That until now I personally don't know where's located, how its whether it loaded internally or externally. Google failed me.) system on Merkava turret.

2) Does mortar system can be put on aerial platform? For example a couple of 120mm or 60mm mortar system on the belly of AC-130 or AC-235 could be a force multiplier and suitable replacement for the old 105 Howitzer/40mm Bofors (AC-130).

>>32975480
Nope. It truly is better. Same effects, better distribution of said effects, no UXO impeding friendly advancement.

>>32978176
>It truly is better.
Not for popping groups of armored vehicles. Unitary warheads are significantly worse at doing that. This shouldn't be up for contention.

>>32978197
Nah, the area of effect is the same. The AWP warhead just has no uxo, less failure.

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>>32978165
>Does mortar system can be put on aerial platform? For example a couple of 120mm or 60mm mortar system on the belly of AC-130 or AC-235 could be a force multiplier and suitable replacement for the old 105 Howitzer/40mm Bofors (AC-130).

>>32978243
Area of effect against soft targets, sure. Sadly, it doesn't do as well against armor. Is this a difficult concept to understand? Unitary explosive is just the original explosion and then some shrapnel. Said shrapnel might do external damage to some armored vehicles. Hell, it might even penetrate an extremely light area. Will that penetration do any real damage? Absolutely not. DPICM has pucks that act as a multitude of HEAT warheads that penetrate through the thin top armor of vehicles and severely damage or destroy things inside of them.

There's no fucking contest. Notice how whenever they talk about the AWP they only say anti-personnel and anti-material, without the slightest mention of anti-armor. Funny, isn't it?

What about bigger mortars, like 155mm +

>>32978457
At that point you're really getting outside the realm of what most would consider a mortar today and start entering their own category of superheavy mortars.

>>32978380
>Sadly, it doesn't do as well against armor.

kinetic penetrators do just fine against armor.

>Notice how whenever they talk about the AWP they only say anti-personnel and anti-material, without the slightest mention of anti-armor. Funny, isn't it?

That's just false man...

>The Alternative Warhead is designed to engage the same target set and achieve the same area-effects requirement as the GMLRS submunitions warhead, but without the lingering danger of unexploded ordnance. The Alternative Warhead is being developed by ATK under subcontract to Lockheed Martin.

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2014/july/mfc-072814-lockheed-martin-completes-successful-operational-flight-tests-gmlrs-wlternative-warhead.html

>>32978538
For more, the ATK fact sheet listed here

https://www.orbitalatk.com/defense-systems/missile-products/alternative-warhead/

States the AWP meets dpicms ORD.

>>32975296
>>blunt

what's that suppose to mean?

90% ballistic? does that include artillery?

>>32978574
Probably means "blunt trauma caused by translation from blast, falls, vehicle crashes, and impact with vehicle interiors and from parachute drops"

>>32966393

>Is the technology already perfected or what is the cause of this?

Outside of sandniggystan or dindu republic there has been no war large enough to require new production and new development.

The newest things we have are semi/full auto magazine fed mortars from Russia, and some GPS doohekey in the West.

>>32967908
You know everyone in the company doesn't carry one right?

>>32978802
>The newest things we have are semi/full auto magazine fed mortars from Russia, and some GPS doohekey in the West.
see
>>32967126
I'd call system that allows for rounds fired at different times to impact simultaneously a bit more advanced than adding GPS guiding to a mortar round.

>>32978827

>I'd call system that allows for rounds fired at different times to impact simultaneously a bit more advanced than adding GPS guiding to a mortar round.

M8 it's not that advanced, it's what you would use GPS and modern computers for.

The idea of simultaneous impact goes far back as long range artillery and well trained crews and has been a wet dream since breach loaded artillery.

>>32978165

>Does mortar system can be put on aerial platform? For example a couple of 120mm or 60mm mortar system on the belly of AC-130 or AC-235 could be a force multiplier and suitable replacement for the old 105 Howitzer/40mm Bofors (AC-130)

Have you herd of bombs anon?

And by any chance how far down the assburger scale you are situated?

>>32966393
they play a pivotal role in maneuver warfare, and has as much to do with logistics as it does generating casualties
the significance might not be apparent to someone not involved with planning (eg. infantry man)

>enemy sets up FOB
>mortar it from miles away
>they have to go out on patrol looking for you, combined with roadside bombs this is almost too easy and can only be countered with extremely expensive mine resistant buildings, properly fortified FOB's, or advanced surveillance
truly our millitaries take for granted their ability to ID the locations they are being mortared from

>set up mortar in rough terrain or jungle
>force a larger force to disperse, travel slowly or detach men to come after you
>their numerical advantage is reduced

mortar teams can do things like pre-calculate trajectories from a specific spot, so they can rush in at night and fire when nobody can spot

you can counter-mortar just based on the sound delay between a mortar firing and it's impact
there are acoustic detectors to pin down the direction of incoming sniper/mortar fire

a single infantryman can fire a mortar, two are required to move it or to fire quickly, three are required if you need to bring in ammo
(often it would make more sense to cache it)

jamal can survey a position during the day, and test fire on locations days before you even arrive
he ties a mortar onto a donkey, moves up into some pain in the ass location and starts putting accurate fire on your location
before the last mortar has landed he's packing up and running away
you have to chase after him, burdened by gear you need to take in case you are caught in an ambush, at risk of the roadside bomb his 12 year old cousin is monitoring
one man and a donkey forces you to sandbag up your FOB, deploy aerial reconnaissance/a recon team

>>32978821
different anon, I think he meant that a mortar company could point their tubes (here it's 9 to 12 120mm tubes) at the target area and fire round after round, adjusting fire as FO calls for it, with 9 rounds fired every four seconds your chances of hitting the vehicles aren't that bad, and if the infantry unit calling in the mortar fire has done their job right by mining the route the enemy vehicles are using, they aren't very mobile after 'finding' the AT-mines, making it fairly easy for FO to bring in accurate fire on the immobilized vehicles (in Finnish Army the FO instructors often talk about "dropping the rounds in a bucket" as the level of accuracy the FOs should aim for, when you train to hit buckets hitting an immobilized tank isn't that hard)

>>32978838
>The idea of simultaneous impact goes far back as long range artillery and well trained crews and has been a wet dream since breach loaded artillery.
simultaneous impact of rounds fired by the same tube? No doubt people have been dreaming of it ever since long-range artillery became a thing, but it hasn't really been possible until now.

>>32978841
>>32978249

Whoa! Just a friendly question. Don't be such negative about it.

>>32978913

>simultaneous impact of rounds fired by the same tube? No doubt people have been dreaming of it ever since long-range artillery became a thing, but it hasn't really been possible until now.

There have been drills in the past with well done calculations, good crews and long ranges. But it was a training situation, then again these systems have not been combat tested.

> but it hasn't really been possible until now.

We had the tech for such a thing since the 80's. And development of such systems started in the 90's.

>>32978913
Been possible for awhile famalam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI

>>32978487
So whats that mean? The US sees no purpose in "super heavy mortars"?

>>32978928
>We had the tech for such a thing since the 80's. And development of such systems started in the 90's.
>claim this has been a thing as long as breech-loading artillery has existed, then pedals back and says it's been a thing since '80s
only a difference of >120 years, no biggie...

>>32978953

When I meant tech I meant automated system. We had computers and semi competent satellites and satellite navigation since the 80's.

As this anon pointed out: >>32978929

We had this since post WW2 with just well trained crews, and if you look up Time on Target we had that since pre WW2.

And if you could read I didn't claim it existed since breach loaded artillery, but since long range artillery. As seen here >>32978838

>The idea of simultaneous impact goes far back as long range artillery and well trained crews and has been a wet dream since breach loaded artillery.

>>32978929
you have a problem with me saying that MRSI hasn't been possible until now (IMO "in the last 20 years or so" counts as "until now"), but not with someone claiming that it's been a thing as long as breech-loading artillery a thing?

>>32978978
>And if you could read I didn't claim it existed since breach loaded artillery, but since long range artillery
my bad, instead of claiming it has been a thing for 150 years you are claiming it's 'only' been a thing for 100 years.

>>32978991

>my bad, instead of claiming it has been a thing for 150 years you are claiming it's 'only' been a thing for 100 years.

No I have been claiming it's been a thing for about 60-70 years. Because though Naval Cannons would have Long Range, Naval Doctrine never even attempted such a thing. And Long Range ground artillery started being a really impactful thing on the battlefield in WW2.

>>32978983
MRSI has been around since the late 80s, I would not count pre gulf war "until now"

>>32978978
>We had this since post WW2 with just well trained crews, and if you look up Time on Target we had that since pre WW2.
so you are saying that the tech allowing for multiple rounds fired by a single mortar has been around since WW2, and are using an article entry talking about a system using multiple *batteries* and BBC time signals to coordinate their fire so that all batteries' fire impacts the target area at the same time as your proof?

>>32979035

>so you are saying that the tech allowing for multiple rounds fired by a single mortar has been around since WW2

We have had semi auto and full auto mechanism since pre WW1, autoloaders since Post WW2, we have had math since the time of greeks, maps since about the same time, clocks since the middle ages. All one needs for MRSI is rapid fire and good calculations.

> a system using multiple *batteries* and BBC time signals to coordinate their fire so that all batteries'

Artillery of all kinds works in batteries, and the article mentions: "Two-round MRSI firings were a popular artillery demonstration in the 1960s, where well trained detachments could show off their skills for spectators."

>>32979025
FFS would you please pull your head out of your ass and take a moment to *think* what I am trying to say here instead of going full autist about my choise of words? Are you seriously so retarded you can't figure out that perhaps English isn't my first language & that perhaps this leads to a situation where I can't quite find the right words & instead I have to settle for "close enough, I'll just have to correct any misunderstandings"?

>>32979071
IDK why you are getting upset bro, not am I being antagonistic. It just is what it is. Why the mistake was made is unimportant, just fixing it and moving on.

It's how you increase your knowledge of the hobby and move on.

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>>32979071
That's why you open an online dictionary or translator and find the correct term, dingus.
t. ETL

>>32979056
>We have had semi auto and full auto mechanism since pre WW1, autoloaders since Post WW2, we have had math since the time of greeks, maps since about the same time, clocks since the middle ages. All one needs for MRSI is rapid fire and good calculations.
Seriously? are you seriously so retarded you didn't realise what I meant to write was "so you are saying that the tech allowing for multiple rounds fired by a single mortar to impact simultaneously has been around since WW2"?

>Artillery of all kinds works in batteries, and the article mentions: "Two-round MRSI firings were a popular artillery demonstration in the 1960s, where well trained detachments could show off their skills for spectators."
first of all this thread is about mortars so artillery doesn't belong in this discussion, I have been talking about mortars this whole time, secondly my question was about if you are seriously trying to use Time on Target as a proof that MRSI has been a thing since WW2

>>32979078
>IDK why you are getting upset bro, not am I being antagonistic. It just is what it is. Why the mistake was made is unimportant, just fixing it and moving on.
>It's how you increase your knowledge of the hobby and move on.
why am I getting upset? Because you are fucking attacking my *CHOISE OF WORDS* while claiming to be 'correcting me'

>>32979088

>Seriously? are you seriously so retarded you didn't realise what I meant to write was "so you are saying that the tech allowing for multiple rounds fired by a single mortar to impact simultaneously has been around since WW2"?

m8 the technologies I listed also work for mortars.

> my question was about if you are seriously trying to use Time on Target as a proof that MRSI has been a thing since WW2

Too which I respond I didn't.

>>32979099

I mean, yeah, you didn't say what you meant. That has no bearing on what you actually said.

All you have to do is say, "shit, I meant to say "X", sorry English is not my first language, my bad" then move on.

>>32979080
>That's why you open an online dictionary or translator and find the correct term, dingus.
yes because it's so fucking helpful when I get ten different translations for a single word & each one of them has a number of different meanings dependent on context, if I used gogole translate and/or a dictionary every time I am not 100% sure about my wording I'd end up spending all day writing a single reply before I could be certain that there's absolutely no way for retards like you to misunderstand me, all the while countless native English speakers keep figuratively raping the English language on various boards & no-one tries correcting their terrible English.

>>32979136
Well too bad, ESL-shitter. You either learn the language or don't.

>>32979118
>All you have to do is say, "shit, I meant to say "X"
which as far as I am concerned is exactly what I was doing, as of late people have been attacking my writing to the point where I can't help but to expect it to be immediately obvious from my text that English isn't my first language & as such I don't see the need to point it out.

>>32979107
>m8 the technologies I listed also work for mortars.
uhh, what? I was asking a question:
>so you are saying that the tech allowing for multiple rounds fired by a single mortar to impact simultaneously has been around since WW2, and are using an article entry talking about a system using multiple *batteries* and BBC time signals to coordinate their fire so that all batteries' fire impacts the target area at the same time as your proof?"
that's *one* question

>>32979107
>Too which I respond I didn't.
Where exactly did you supposedly respond to this?

>>32979145

>which as far as I am concerned is exactly what I was doing

No, you began attacking back for no reason.

For what purpose have you still not moved on.

For. What. Purpose.

>>32969052
>>>32969001
>I've heard Americans aren't really into radio discipline in general. Guess it's a part of that doctrinal assumed superiority.

As a 0621 the US militaries incessant need to communicate constantly is one of the reasons we're good at war. Command, Control and communication.

The US is REALLY good at communicating effectively while manuevering

>>32979180
Everyone is good at communicating. Others just know when to shut up.

>>32979171
>No, you began attacking back for no reason.
uhh, no, I only started lashing out at >>32979071
until then I was trying to make sure we were talking about the same subject, the reason why I started lashing out at >>32979071 was because someone kept clinging to my use of words "until now" when by then it was already obvious that everyone involved had already understood what I meant & that the person clinging to my wording was just being an ass for the sake of being an ass.

>>32966393
>mortars are now perfect for their role
>therefore they cannot be used any more

let's start over
>>32978928
fine, it's been possible to fire two, maybe three rounds from a single tube & have all three impact simultaneously since at least '60s (instead of the more vague "post-WW2"), my point was that things like the "twelve rounds from a single pair of tubes impacting simultaneously" -capability of Patria's AMOS system haven't been possible until quite recently, first such system I can find is from early '90s, by then guided munitions had been a thing for a while.

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>>32979235
Yeah bro, we capped our Mortar level so now we need to start grinding exp for Artillery, that's how it works right