Does torture work?

Depends on what kind of information you are trying to get out of them. It has to be immediately verifiable (what is the combination?) and they have to know it.

It works to make the world hate you and think your an asshole.

P!us seeing as how what goes around comes around its wrecking everything involved in it.

People blow their brains out after doing stuff like that.

>>32943710
Light spanking is normally enough for me, but some people can't get off without taking it too far.

>>32943710
Depends on what you want
>confessing a crime
No problem
>revealing important information
won't necessarily work

>>32943710
No

Anyone who says otherwise is probably an edgy teen

>>32943710
No.
Get lost.
You already knew the answer before you posed the question.

>>32943733
>>32943772
>>32943779
>>32943781

Torture is how we found Bin Laden, without it he would still be free

>>32943791
no

If it doesn't work, why do the feds still use it?

>>32943797
>no

yup

http://www.today.com/id/42880435/ns/today-today_news/t/cia-chief-waterboarding-aided-bin-laden-raid/#.WJ17dG8rLbg

>>32943805

it works

better on some people than on others, but it works

>>32943805
>If it doesn't work, why do the feds still use it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

>>32943817
That's actual fake news.
Bin laden wouldn't have been where some petty lad who was captured would know.
That's a need to know basis even for them.

>>32943805
Because they are psychopaths

>>32943710
It's not ethical, but it doesn't reveal real information, but can get people to submit if they're weak and you're abusive enough.

>tie someone to a table
>get a sewer rat
>get bucket
>put bucket on the persons stomach facing upsidedown
>put rat in bucket
>put hot coal on top of bucket
>rat chews into your stomach to escape the heat from the coal
>put rat into bucket

Boom you got your info.

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>>32943710
anything works if you allocate enough volts

>>32943836
>That's actual fake news.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cia-chief-john-brennan-insists-torture-methods-helped-find-osama-bin-laden-1479195

>>32943836

>but it doesn't reveal real information

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Francis_Buckley

>Hezbollah captured a CIA station Chief
>This guy was obviously trained to resist interrogation
>These likely untrained sand niggers begin torturing a man trained to resist it
>Quickly after they began torture, he starts talking and his agents and network start getting killed off
>Guy basically reveals everything he knows

Tell me more about how torture doesn't work.

>>32943839

Rat actually just slips under the edge of the bucket, because that's what rats do.

>>32943836
>the feds just torture people just because lol
Yeah, no.

>>32943710
Depends.

Basically >>32943720

If you know somebody knows something, it's good.

If you don't know what they know, it activly works against you.

>>32943710
>Does torture work?
Can it work? Sure.
Can it be just as likely to extract false information from someone who doesn't even know anything, just because they want it to stop? Sure.

>>32943854
>Hezbollah
>untrained

Guaranteed Iranians where there

>Quickly after they began torture

He lasted 30 days, give or take.

Every day being tortured.

That man is a fucking hero, and one of the many reasons why hez are a bunch of animals. Fuck em.

>>32943710

it works so well that people will confess things they didn't even know/do

>>32943909

>Guaranteed Iranians where there
Source: your ass

>He lasted 30 days, give or take.
Source: your ass

This is proof that torture does work.

>>32943779
Or the president.

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>>32943710

Yes and no.

You hurt someone bad enough, they'll tell you anything.

Is it the truth? That's 50/50.

Sometimes it's not the act of torture, it's simply telling them what you'll do. No one wants their front teeth slowly drilled out. Sometimes, it's easier to get answers without spilling blood.

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>>32943993

To expand on this, how you apply yourself during the act can have a serious effect on the answer you get.

Come across a raving lunatic, you might have the poor bastard scared to the point of possibly going into a state of mental shock.

Come across to calm and he might call your bluff and withhold what information he knows.

It's complicated.

It very much does.

Countries with very effective intelligence agencies like Israel and Russia regularly torture without much argument

>>32944007

Another small thing, attempting diplomacy at first can resolve a situation quicker than some think.

Instantly torturing someone after detaining them is very, very stupid, but done quite often. People are lazy, they want quick answers. They want to hear what they want to hear, so they'll do anything to hear it.

>>32943925
>implying Hezbollah is not an Iranian proxy

Confirmed for retard.

>source for how long he lasted

http://canadafreepress.com/2006/thomas102506.htm

It was may before they verified that they opened his burn bag and no agents have died yet. He was kidnapped in March.

>This is proof that torture does work.

nobody said it does not.

>>32943710
It's all psychological. You get a weak-willed guy? Bargain with him, offer to cut his sentence in half if he gives you the info. If it's accurate, and mission success, squeeze more out through bargain, or ice em.

If he's a tough son of a bitch, spit-in-your-face, my god will save me, you make his life hell. You force feed him rotten pork, chain him up, dark lit room, loud noise playing from speakers, don't let that fucker sleep, tire him out. Make him wish for death. It won't take long. Then bargain with him. Information for death. If no, keep doing it. If humanity is good at anything, it's cruelty. Offer the deal again.

This time he just might spit it out.

Once you get your info, throw him back in his cell and reward him with some more rotten pork.

Morally wrong? Yes. Effective?

Well, if it wasn't, we wouldn't do it now, would we?

>>32944048

>>implying Hezbollah is not an Iranian proxy
>Confirmed for retard.

No source, not an argument.

>It was may before they verified that they opened his burn bag and no agents have died yet. He was kidnapped in March.
Wrong, it was May before they received the video, and your second claim isn't backed up the the article.

>nobody said it does not.
>>32943836
>>32943779
>>32943781

Get the fuck out of here.

>>32943779
Why did Mccain sing like a songbird in Vietnam then
Torture doesn't work? Gimme a fucking break

>>32944079
>Wrong, it was May before they received the video.

And they were still trying to figure out how long before he broke. It's very obvious if his contacts start going dark en mass.

>I need a source to show that Iranians fund and influence Hezbollah

Wew laddy

>get the fuck out of here, these anons said it on an imageboard

The only ones who say torture does not work are those ignorant of the methods used, and when and how to use it.

>>32944118

>And they were still trying to figure out how long before he broke. It's very obvious if his contacts start going dark en mass.
Not supported by the article, and there's no way to precisely determine a breaking point anyway in this kind of scenario.

>I need a source to show that Iranians fund and influence Hezbollah
>Wew laddy
Nice goalpost moving.
Also, still no actual argument.

>The only ones who say torture does not work are those ignorant of the methods used, and when and how to use it.
More goalpost moving.
You really enjoy being proven wrong, I guess.

Torture works. In that it gets you information. It also costs, by galvanizing the opposition and increasing their recruiting. Creates suicide bombers rather than guerillas, costs international support, reduces the chances of a peaceful settlement. Ask France how well torture worked for them Algerie. Ask Russia how well things worked out in Afghanistan. And speaking of Afghanistan... watch how fast the current regime can run, the day Taliban checks in again to even the score. But sure, torture works. Just don't think it's free.

>>32943710
No. Period.

>>32943772
It's a great way to get an innocent man to confess!

>>32943791
No, it wasn't.

>>32943817
>today.com
kys

>>32944079

>>32944048
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/a-proxy-for-iran

>>32944007
That's why we have the good cop and bad cop routine.

>>32944048
>nobody said it does not
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/interrogation-experts-from-every-branch-of-the-military-and-intelligence-agree-torture-doesnt-produce-useful-information.html

Tons of interrogation experts explicitly say that not only does it not work, it's counterproductive and does more harm to our side than any potential good outcome.

>>32944076
>t. Internet tough guy

>>32946022
A favorite quote when I see these threads:
> Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough.
-Former Navy Judge Advocate General Admiral John Hutson

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Depends really, torture almost always works better with two people involved.

It also has to be backed up by verifiable facts to begin with.

A good method is "Let's ask you friend" (works with groups but let's say there's two people in this example)

>Both subjects bound to chair in same room side by side
>Name them "A" and "B"
>This is very important, it reduces them to mere objects, refusal to address someone by name enforces the idea that they are of little worth to them, you want them to think they need to make themselves worthy.
>Outline rules very clearly to them first
>If you speak out of turn, your chair is tilted back onto floor and you are hosed in face with high pressure water for ten seconds
>Very important at this stage to demonstrate that part by dropping both subjects to ground and applying the punishment technique
>Questions will be asked of each subject at random, could be that subject A is questioned for extended periods while subject B has to sit there in silence
>Next most important step is to ask control questions you already know the answer to, say around, ten or fifteen, to determine how quickly a subject will lie to you.
>It's also important to demonstrate the other side of punishment
>If a lie is told by subject A, then Subject B is punished in a more severe way, that's left up to the interrogators imagination, but it should really be something that illicits an extreme vocal reaction, my choice would be needles inserted under fingernails.
>The goal here is to shock the other subject, if they tell a lie, they've just hurt their friend
>Also, the subject being punished will begin to mistrust his friend who just lied
>Continue in this vein until the two subjects have both been punished (preferably to point where they have both made extreme vocal and physical reactions)
>It's at this point that you should be able to "read" when a subject is lying
>I.e, subject A tells a big fat lie,subject B will flinch because he knows what's coming next

>>32946495
See >>32946022

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>>32946501
To be honest that's not been used in a military or intelligence gathering capacity, not that I know of anyway

>>32944076
The problem is that while you can break down someone's will power through misery and sheer exhaustion, you may still not get accurate information. Not to mention this is a slow process and information has a very short expiration date. Any half competent organization will know if a VIP was captured and will immediately begin enacting changes to invalidate any intel he might have known.

This doesn't belong on /k/.

>>32943710
The problem is that it works too well. You could make one confess to being a tractor if you beat them and starve them long enough.

>>32943710

Yes.

>>32946616
> Torture is the technique of choice of the lazy, stupid and pseudo-tough.
-Former Navy Judge Advocate General Admiral John Hutson

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>>32943753
Tell me your secrets or I'll tickle your feet again

>>32946658
Tickling would work on me desu. I can't stand it.

>>32946658
Tickling barely elicits a response from me.

Many pressure points barely work, too.

I don't see what value a confession even has. If you are at the point where you can get away with enhanced interrogation, you don't need to deal with courts any more. Wasn't that the whole point of the black sites and Guantanamo? Acquiring intel, yes, but who bothers with 'confessions' any more?

>>32947496
Unless they walk up to you and say "hey, I just killed these guys" confessions are also pretty worthless. It's trivial for police to just coax the innocent who don't have a lawyer present into admitting whatever they want them to.

>>32943710

If you want them to tell you what you want to hear, then yes.

If you want them to tell the truth then no.

>>32943710

Only if you talk. Zip it, bud.

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>>32943841

>>32947496
Because its not uncommon in say a military junta to be accused of treason or whathaveyou so you can be used as a scapegoat for certain policies. And they will want to have a show trial where they parade you around and say "look he confessed, our motherland is under attack we need to act now"

In these situations, people will confess to literally anything. There was British sailors tortured by the Dutch during the spice wars who confessed to having had signed pacts in blood with Lucifer to destroy Christendom.

lIke an earlier anon said, if you have a safe in front of you and the guy tells you the wrong code, torturing him will probably work. However if you want anything more abstract like useful intel, it's not effective because the person will say whatever they think you want to hear in order to get the pain to stop.

By the way to everyone saying torture works, the guys who they waterboarded in guantanamo didn't give up their intel while being waterboarded. It was months after the waterboarding stopped, when they were treated with some basic humanity and privileges, did they give up the useful information (like the intel that helped catch bin laden). So yes those subjected to torture did talk. Does that mean torture is a worthwhile undertaking? I don't think so.

For all you bootlickers out there saying that "we should be able to do it to people cuz its so effective", remember that any time you endorse the government to do something to someone else, you're really giving them the power to do it to you.

>>32949579
>remember that any time you endorse the government to do something to someone else, you're really giving them the power to do it to you.
powerful and true statement

Useful deterrent i'd say

Like if you caught one of isis and had doctors on hand to keep him alive so no allah
And wheeled him out on tv once a week for 20 or so years to pull out fingernails and rub salt in him and maybe kill one of his sons infront of him i reckon it'd have a chilling effect on terrorist defiance

>>32945258

Worked for vlad the impaler

yes in the fact that it extracts information, weather that information may or may not be true is the only downside.

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>tfw none of the hicks in /k/ recognize OPs image

>>32950106
i did but folk music is fucking gay.
i can tolerate to almost anything but radio country, folk, polka, autotuned coons, and whiney faggots. i could listen to debussy, human remains, mimi thorson, ween, whatever else but fuck that shit, if u wana torture me thats the way

>>32949829
You just would proof that all the IS propaganda about the west and the US is true.
Congrats, you just recruited tons of new jihadis, eager to punish those western devils and die for allah. You've even shown them that surrendering is no option as being captured alive would be hell on earth.

>>32949874
No, he just straight up murdered everyone who gave him a reason.

>>32943839
that's too fast and too furious.

>>32947334
so hardcore

>>32946259
says a guy who was in the navy..

Meanwhile the US thinks mass killing civilians is a suitable way to "win" wars
But hey, at least they don't torture huh

>>32951965
>Implying intentional civilian deaths have ever been a plan post-WWII

>>32943753
>Read spanking
>See 'light' before it
4komaguysgettingexcitedandthenlosinginterest.jpg

>>32943805
I dunno. Why do we have a prison system designed to make criminals worse coming out than going in?

Because our culture has a hard-on for punishing evildoers. Sometimes it works, most often it bites us in the ass.

I blame Jehovah.

>>32943710

MICHELENE MICHELENE

>>32951836
No, I just have shitty nerve endings.

Though it has been a plus every time I have a piece of hot brass go down my shirt.

>>32943710
Short answer yes
Let's say I have experience in that area.

>>32943710
I think the more important question is, does it make people otherwise neutral people hate you when they find out you're torturing their friends and family?

>Spoiler alert: It does

>>32952906
>I blame Jehovah.
That's actually a good blame target. The entire Penitentiary system is based on the religious practice of Penitence, or locking yourself away to pray away your sins.

torture will always get you an answer

usually, a made up, bullshit answer

>>32951597

Buys an awful lot of obiedience tho dosen't it

>>32950550

Really? Would you be eager to join if when we find out we grab your mum, maybe your daughter and torture them for decades? It's not even like you'd be signing their death warrents, cause they wouldn't be allowed to die to escape

That will give people something to think about

>>32943720
>>32943886
This.

Like I often hear people saying they'd "confess" to anything if tortured,
obviously getting a "Did you do it?" is a fucking no go

If you know a cunt has information on something specific, it works.

>>32950473
> He doesn't like Fleet Foxes

I knew /k/ had bad taste in most things, including firearms, but this is too much man.

Need to be able to check story is true. For example, threaten/torture -> guy provides a name. Threaten/torture on consequences of this action, check story, consequences, rinse repeat the sky is the limit.

Need a jail and time. Surprising amount of time and lots of isolation cells.

Something to consider for those who think they re tough guys...."where are your guns and ammo?" Go ahead, just tell it and you can go home.

>>32955769
Shut up, Jack Bauer.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/interrogation-experts-from-every-branch-of-the-military-and-intelligence-agree-torture-doesnt-produce-useful-information.html

Objectively, yes. It's great at making people squeal.

Problem is, you need to KNOW for sure that they know what you're after before you start. Because if they don't know they'll just make up anything on the spot to get you to stop. It has to be verifiable.

>>32956614
Again, see >>32956604
Nobody who knows what they're talking about considers torture as anything but an ineffective waste of time at best. In reality all it does is drag out interrogation time better used with effective techniques instead of dragging our rep through the sewer and creating new enemies.

>>32957468
What are effective techniques

>>32958104
drugs

they do work hundred time better than torture

>>32958104
>>32958117
Decency, empathy, providing a positive "I'm here to help you" environment that makes them comfortable and willing to help, or at least give up info that eases their experience. You know, the exact fucking opposite of torture.

>>32943710
The only torture we're really inflicting on prisoners is the American diet.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/inhofe-the-biggest-problem-facing-gitmo-detainees-is-obesity-audio

>>32958252
The biggest problem now with Gitmo now is the "we can't get rid of them" problem. There's a ton of people there we know are innocent, but nobody will accept their repatriation or emigration. And then there are the ones that are genuinely dangerous, but due to NIMBY/general prison/due process conflicts we can't move them to traditional prisons. Dubya set up a real nasty Catch-22 with that place.

>>32943710
No.
On a large scale you collect around 25% of good informations, but you still have to check the whole 100%. All in all it's a waste of time.
That's one of the lessons of the Algerian war.

>>32958301
Will they be as dangerous at 300 lbs?

>>32958321
Probably, since these are the top level planning/strategy types, not the foot soldiers and suicide bombers.

>>32943791
>>32943817
we found bin laden by disguising spies as fake polio vaccine workers in towns across pakistan

now they kill anyone who tries to vaccinate their kids and polio is coming back

>>32943710
>Does torture work?
The popular consensus is that is doesn't work well for reliable information.

But my opinion is that that is based on interrogating individuals, rather than relying on the tortured testimonies of multiple people. If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.


As far as torture goes, everything we've ever done is incredibly mild. Basically it can be boiled down to rough and mean spirited treatment.

You don't just torture someone and suddenly they give up UBL. People will say what they think you want to here, sometimes that include actual true intel.

So you totrure a shitton of people, and compare the transcripts to see if a piece of info is repeated by multiple people who haven't had contact in custody. Even seeming meaningless things can go on to make actionable intel easier to implement.

Torture does. fucking. work. It just doesn't work like the media and most people think it does

absolutely, we have decades of recorded instances where it has been shown to work in several different countries.

>>32959889
>If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.
See >>32956604

>>32960783
No, you don't.

>>32960518
>Torture does. fucking. work.
No, it does not.