NATO vs Iran

>>32917018
Probably roughly analogous to the Invasion of Iraq in 2003

>>32917053
So can they be expected to surrender en masse and then wage insurgent tactics?

>>32917018
Nothing will happen. 1 v 1, NATO(USA), would roll over Iran.

>>32917018
Gargantuan clusterfuck.
Post-invasion insurgencies will likely sting even worse.

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>>32917018
>Is Iranian armor any good?

Their best tank is an upgraded M60 hull sporting the older generation of T-72 cannon... so no, not really any good against a M1A2 (US Army) / M1A1HA (Marine Corps version).

>Is there a credible air threat?

Their best jet is 1980's vintage and have less than 100 credible aircraft flying.. so no.

Also, they just started home-brewing their own Kh-55 / Tomahawk LACM.

>How is their infantry and is the Basij /Quds a larger threat than the regular army?

Literally the only good thing that Iran has.
A large, fairly professional, well trained, and well equipped force.
If used in an Asymetrical fight, it will make Iraq's insurgency look like the little kids ball pit.


>Does their Navy pose a threat?

Kinda, but not really.. their subs might bag a couple kills before being sunk.


>Ballistic missile capability

They have lots of scud knockoffs and some MRBM's.. They also have a Over The Horizon radar facility that's good for about 2,000km.

>CBRN

Iran abhors chemical weapons as they were on the receiving end of that shit in the Iran-Iraq War.

Nuclear is a "may have break out capacity" but according to every reliable source they haven't bothered building one, that we know of.

>>32917087
pretty much.

You can expect the more hardcore guys, like the Revolutionary Guard, to wage an insurgent war similar to the Ba'athists. And Shia muslim jihadists will flock to join the insurgency.

They have fissile material. Just like Russia, it does not matter if their army is a joke. If they can kill mass numbers of Americans they can keep the liberals at bay.

Inb4 Russian military is not as shit as Iran. Name one invasion within 20 years that was even as successful as American liberations of Iraq and Afghanistan.

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>>32917141
Good info, so their infantry is less ragtag and what can be construed as a legitimate fighting force? Could Bradleys (hypothetically) pose a threat to Iranian military capability sans air power or SCUDs and the like?

>>32917087
No surrendering en-mass.

Unlike the conscript shit Saddam had, Iran's infantry actually love their country & don't resent their leadership as they aren't treated like dogs. Iran is diferent in this way compared to every other Arab nation, as Iran doesn't do the "Arab life".


Oh, also Iranian Topographical maps make Afghanistan look smooth. So fucking hilly and mountainous.

>>32917175
what is Iran going to do, nuke their own country to try to kill a few hundred invading troops? not that they even have the capacity to create a nuclear bomb right now anyway.

>name one invasion within 20 years that was even as successful as American liberations of Iraq and Afghanistan
>liberations
>successful
kek

also, I'd say the Russkies "liberated" Crimea pretty successfully

>>32917222
I was thinking along the lies of a nuclear attack on bases outside of Iran proper, be it Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, be it a MRBM or some insurgent dirty shit.

>>32917175

Is this post from 2005?

>>32917240
If they are at all logical in their decisions, they should realize the possibility that a nuclear strike on their part could result in their being turned into the world's largest parking lot

>>32917265
This is the same country adamant on becoming a nuclear power and extending itself throughout the region. Im sure some noo-cue-ler material could find itself in the hands of some Quds Force operatives in some allied nation or near American installations. Just a thought. Maybe in deniable hands like Hez or used in some non verifiable area like Syria.

>>32917182
Their regular Infantry Force is split into a professional officer corps and conscription infantry.

The conscripts are trained over a two part, 21 month period (Boot camp, Break, then Advanced camp were they play with the cool shit, like ATGM launchers).

Then they're sent back home to lead normal lives, to be called upon if SHTF.. basically a huge pile of Reservists.

The year round professionals, the IRG and Quds Force are just like any other professional army, paid to train, make beds, and scrub boots waiting for something to happen.
Quds Force is more active though as they are the "out of country" group.
They help train Hezbollah (which has been a very effective ally of the Syrian Arab Army) and do other shit outside of Iran.

Unlike the Iraq or Saudi conscripts, Iran actually trains theirs and lets them read field manuals (surprise, they are literate too).

>Could Bradleys (hypothetically) pose a threat to Iranian military capability

As in M2 IFV's... yeah, they'd wreck everything Iran has in their inventory if they got on target first with the chaingun/TOW launcher..

However, Iran's army does have plentiful systems capable of killing a M2 as well, both man portable or vehicle mounted. And their troops read the manuals on how to operate it in Advanced Camp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toophan

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>>32917053
>Probably roughly analogous to the Invasion of Iraq in 2003
wrong answer
>>32917141
>Literally the only good thing that Iran has.
A large, fairly professional, well trained, and well equipped force.
If used in an Asymetrical fight, it will make Iraq's insurgency look like the little kids ball pit.
This.
The moment NATO invades it will be an Asymmetrical war, they wont give NATO the benifit of steam rolling them in a conventional conflict like Saddams headless chicken of an army did in 2003. there defensive doctrine is similar to what Hezbollah did to the IDF in 2006, and given the size of there army and population it would take a lot of autistic NATO generals to get together to think a land invasion is winnable or a good idea.

you can read about some of Irans "mosaic" strategy here: http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-military-doctrine

>>32917309
The theory of loose nukes is generally thought to be invalid, so plausible deniability wouldn't fly. And there are only really two rogue states (not including Israel) that have nukes. If a bomb went off, we'd either be blaming Iran or the norks.

Also, I think we'd probably know if Iran ramped up their production of fissile material to pre-deal levels again, in which case their facilities would be destroyed by airstrikes before they could produce any significant amount.

>>32917396
>well-equipped
>posts picture of soldiers with MG-42s

>>32917369
So the Iranians have a tremendous pool from which to pull troops... at least troops with a basic understanding of how to employ weapon systems up to and including TOWs if I understand you correctly.

They have a locally brewed TOW missile and launcher, which Im sure can be proliferated en masse.

This is good stuff, thank you.

Alright, now for some more questions that may or may not be pertinent.

>How is Iranian terrain, especially in regards to conducting operations.
>Could Iran concievably import foreign fighters if need be, even with Iraq and Afghanistan being the main corridors from which people could come in or out.
>Is there a threat to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. from Iran proper, be it ballistic missiles, artillery, sub lauched munitions?

>>32917222
>what is Iran going to do, nuke their own country to try to kill a few hundred invading troops?
I really wouldn't put it past them.
But
>>32917240
>I was thinking along the lies of a nuclear attack on bases outside of Iran proper, be it Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, be it a MRBM or some insurgent dirty shit.
is far more likely.

>>32917265
>If they are at all logical in their decisions, they should realize the possibility that a nuclear strike on their part could result in their being turned into the world's largest parking lot
Half of them don't care, the other half would see it as "going out in a blaze of glory" and they'd do it anyway.

>>32917401
That is comforting to hear, at least loose nukes arent probably on the agenda.

>>32917396
This is more concerning. At this scale, would there be any possibility for victory against Iran with just the US at the helm?

>>32917450
>Unlike Germany, who doesn't even have that anymore

BROOM STICKS

>>32917452
>how is Iranian terrain
Mostly hilly, 3-4 distinct mountain ranges. Unlike Afghanistan, it really doesn't have any significant flat areas. Pic related. On the plus side, the majority of its peaks are lower elevation than Afghanistan, so weather won't be as punishing and most of our helicopters can operate pretty much everywhere without exceeding their ceilings.
>especially in regard to conducting operations
This will be a mixed bag. They do have an extensive and modern road network, so moving materiel will be significantly easier than Afghanistan, but lots and lots of fortified or easily fortifiable areas.
>could Iran conceivably import foreign fighters if need be
As long as it bills itself as an Islamic nation, yes easily. Plenty of stupid muzzies willing to go die for the will of Allah.
>is there a threat to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. from Iran proper, be it ballistic missiles, artillery, sub lauched munitions?
Yes. They have medium range ballistic missiles that cover the whole area and then some, and approximately 2 squadrons of fighter-bombers capable of reaching all or most of these countries without aerial refueling. They also have diesel-electric subs, some of which are at least capable of carrying SLBM's, which *theoretically* could threaten everything within ~250km of any coastline, but they're likely to be detected and at least tracked if not destroyed in the event of likely or open hostilities.

>>32917452
>How is Iranian terrain, especially in regards to conducting operations.

Iran is a nation of agricultural terraced mountain ranges with few flat open spaces, and the few flat open spaces that did exist near any water became densely packed urban centers .... A fucking nightmare for any military planner.


>Could Iran conceivably import foreign fighters if need be, even with Iraq and Afghanistan being the main corridors from which people could come in or out.

Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey... Caspian Sea.. lots of corridors for entry.

However, the numbers of fighters to import wouldn't be great.. Iran has a fuckton of bodies at home to use.
If anything they'd want any fighters overseas to conduct sabotage attacks on the enemy at home.

>Is there a threat to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc. from Iran proper, be it ballistic missiles, artillery, sub launched munitions?

Yes

If Iran was attacked, they'd be throwing their Scuds/MRBMs/LCAMs at every related target nearby before they get hunted down by F-35s/F-15Es/F/A-18Fs.

>>32917485
>At this scale, would there be any possibility for victory against Iran with just the US at the helm?
Depends on what you consider the conditions for victory. The US could easily roll in, curbstomp their uniformed military, depose the current regime, and install their puppet government du jour (and thus negating any threat to the surrounding area that Iran might pose). But then they'd spend the next [forever] fighting a hell of an insurgency, or pull out and let the nation collapse on itself and turn into Uganda 2.0

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>>32917498
I was there and witnessed this happening. They were using squirt bottles like the kind glass cleaner comes it as anti riot spray.

>>32917640
This info is all telling me in the worst case scenario many of my friends will not be coming home :(

Is there any sort of...weakness inherent to the Iranians? Like how Iraqis were so mistreated they preferred to surrender and be under NATO care as opposed to return and get executed by Baathists.

>>32917654
Yeah I could see Hezbollah doing some sneeki peeki in partner nations. The SCUD problem is concerning at best and nightmarish at worst.

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>>32917640
Fug
>pic related
>forgets the pic

>>32917190
>Iran
>Arab

The factors on that "Why Arabs lose wars" might not apply to the Iranians since they're not fucking arabs

>>32917710
They have plenty of weaknesses.
>all their equipment is old and poorly maintained
>while their military is large by regional standards it's still significantly smaller than what the US can project
>their military is not trained anywhere close to the standards of Western professional militaries (though excellent for the region)
>centralized command and control infrastructure such as radar, FCS, general officers, that are well-known and not particularly well fortified
Basically, as long as the US/NATO/"coalition" forces are allowed to be the aggressors and kick things off, it'll go like the Gulf War where the first targets hit will leave them blind and paralyzed until it's too late.

>>32917786
I hope you are right. Hell, I hope this whole scenario never comes to fruition. At least not within the next few years.

>>32917805
Pretty much the whole world hopes Iran stays passive. They can be beaten, but there is no outcome that's possibly better than never going to war with them to start with.

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We should knock off the government and sponsor a home-grown Zoroastrian or Church-of-the-East monarchy rather than attempt to reconcile Islam with republicanism for the umpteenth time.

>>32917738
Thanks for repeating what i just said.

>>32917018
>implying NATO will exist much longer

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>>32918148
>Implying I didnt just mean the US and Canada.

I just threw it out there in case anyone would have a more formative response with or without NATO.

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>>32917018
>Asking for a group of friends.

Steve Bannon pls go

>>32918225
Lol, more like someone who knows a large group of people that take trips to the mid east with a mass amount of beans, bullets, and bandages on a cyclical basis.

>>32918239
Marine Grunts?

Yeah, they better hope that the USN & USAF has a 2 or 5 year head start on Iran before they even get near that boarder.

THEN, maybe, the Iranian troops might say "fuck it" and give up on contact.

>>32918304
Same job, other branch.

>>32917095
This.
You gotta understand that you can't go into Iran like how you went into Iraq. Iraq was basically only held together by Sadamn. There was never a real Iraqi identity. You see many Iranians actually like their country. It's not just the people who are high on religion, either. I think many moderates would take up arms voluntarily to fight the US because of nationalism.
Also let's not forget that the Iranian military actually has some experience and is much bigger, much more well equipped, and much
Then there is the matter of how Iran has some industry going on. It's not a first-rate country, but it can certainly produce far more arms than Iraq ever could.
Finally there is the fact that Iran is mountainous as fuck. It makes Afghanistan look flatter than Taylor Swift. Horrible to fight in and even worse to occupy. Look at the Russians in Chechnya; complete shitshow.
And the insurgency, oh Jesus, prepare to have to fight every goddamn Shia that is strong enough to shoulder a rifle.

>>32917842
Well it sounds about as stupid as the other shit we've done, but at this point we might as well try it.

>>32917018
I think ARMA 3 went over this scenario

Iran is several times as large and has several times the population comapred to Iraq, and is msotly mountains outside the flat areas around Tehran. There is no truly major seperatist or diverging tribal affiliations because while Iraq is a bunch of lines the Brits drew on a map, Iran is an actual fucking nationstate and heir to one of the oldest civilisations in the world.

Equipment-wise, they're better off than Iraq, but not by that much. However, in terms of actual competence, their guys are a hell of a lot better than anything Saddam ever had. Like, these guys with their army and air force falling apart from the fallout of the revolution managed to still regularily beat numerically superior, fully-mechanised iraqi formations in the open desert using almost nothing but light infantry.

The real problem is that the Basij and Atesh don't bet on winning an open war agianst an US invasion, they're betting on giving it a bloody nose, fucking things up for everyone by lighting up a supertanker or two and mining the Gulf and then going udnercover amongst the population. At which point... imagine the iraqi insurgency except several times as large, without any major internal divisions, with the general population backing it to a much greater degree and it being led by actual professional soldiers who have been training and preparing for exactly this thing.

Yeah, fun times. Oh, and the iranian government will likely find somewhere to get into exile and unless we committ to occupying the whole place for at least a full generation, then the moment we leave, they're pretty much just gonna come back and take back over with the blessings of most of the population.

>>32918173
Why would Canada join the US in any invasions? They already fell for that once I doubt they'll do it again.

>>32917309
...they're adamant about having a civilian nuclear program and were willing to make major concessions towards that. And besides, if the US had as much of an irrational hateboner against my nation, holy shit would I want to get nukes. Deterrence is a wonderful thing to have when there's a hostile superpower looking at you funny after invading two of your neighbours.

>deniable
>nulear material

Pick one and only one.

>>32917450
MG3s actually. Iran licensed production from Rheinmetall and is building them domestically.

If NATO got involved it would be a total curbstomp. /k/ loves to shill for the Iranians but they have no modern air force, a dilapidated navy based around attacking oil shipping, and a single S-300 battery for modern air defenses

An occupation of Iran would be ugly due to typical snackbar guerrilla warfare but in a simple exchange of fire Iran would have no defense

>Is Iranian armor any good?
No. Export model T-72's, Shah-era Pattons and Chieftains, and an assortment of Chinese and Nork T-55/62s.
>Is there a credible air threat?
>How is their infantry and is the Basij /Quds a larger threat than the regular army?
In an occupation, yes. Otherwise no. Basij is mainly used to terrorize opposition and wouldn't be a big problem regardless
>Does their Navy pose a threat?
No
>Ballistic missile capability, especially the ones being tested and whether or not there is Iranian reticence to CBRN
Iranian ballistic missile tech is reverse-engineered North Korean Scuds. They can hit cities but are very inaccurate and can be intercepted by modern ABM systems as well. The Iranians could use swarms of SRBM/MRBMs to kill Arab or Israeli civilians though.

We just had this thread. The United States isn't prepared to invade and occupy Iran and would probably suffer a large number of casualties.

IRGC/Hezbollah has been hyped to hell on /k/ but weren't able to beat far less equipped opposition in Syria. Russians had to come in and rescue them. US had to come in and rescue them in Iraq against ISIS as well.

>>32919062
Man, it's like you fucks learned nothing from Iraq. Also what the fuck makes you think NATO will join this after seeing how the last shitshow turned out?

>>32917018
>Is Iranian armor any good?
Nope.

>Is there a credible air threat?
Nope.

>How is their infantry and is the Basij /Quds a larger threat than the regular army?
They've got a lot of civilians to hide behind - threat.

>Does their Navy pose a threat?
Nope. However they do have the capability to cause a clusterfuck annoyance with mines.

>Ballistic missile capability, especially the ones being tested and whether or not there is Iranian reticence to CBRN
Trash.

Nato would be crushed under the Iranian boot.

Why do channers love Iranian dick so much?

>>32919136
Iraq was almost ten years ago.

Most of these kids were in grade school while /k/ went to war.

>>32919223
Decent diaspora population in western nations.

>>32918766

Not even close. Iran was the aggressor in ARMA 3. A weakening NATO let Iran get strong and invade some fictional Greek islands. These fictional scenarios are always dumb. Just let America be the aggressors, we're all adults here.

>>32919372
The Opfor in ArmA 3 is obviously meant to represent Turkey, not Iran... they don't even have access to the Mediterranean.

See you guys are the reason why the rest of the world think americans suck at geography.

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>>32919136
>Also what the fuck makes you think NATO will join this after seeing how the last shitshow turned out

as always only the other 2 NATO big hitters(UK and France) would actually make a worthwhile difference

>>32917640
>As long as it bills itself as an Islamic nation, yes easily. Plenty of stupid muzzies willing to go die for the will of Allah
not that simple. you cant expect sunnis to lay their lives down for shias

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Remember when whole Yemen thing started and /k/retins collectively reveled in delusion that Saudis will finish this off in couple of weeks just because they have American tech? "Steel spearheads of M1s will steamroll through shitheaps of T-55s", kek. Needless to say, dragon dildo mouthbreathers deriving knowdlege about warfare from videogames are not the best experts on the war with Iran either.

>>32919372
>Iran
It's Turkey

>>32917842
enforcing religion at a state level stopped working in the 18th century
it would have to be part of some unofficial cultural revival
the whole reason their islamic revolution happened was because the shah was both a western puppet and secular. their proles will only tolerate so much before they overthrow the government and put another dictator in power not aligned with the west

>>32919482
And you have literally tens of millions of East Asian and African "muslims" who don't affiliate with any of the major sub-sects of Islam that, when coupled with a token-by-western-standards monetary incentive, will go fight whoever wherever because it's better than being in Africa/Indonesia/Bangladesh.

And of course they'll get a few "disillusioned" muslim-converts from western Europe, but not enough to matter as anything other than propaganda material (Hey "The West"! Look, we got a single white Brit to come fight for us (please ignore that we paid him 200,000 pounds to do it)! Your cause is unjust!")

just let saudi arabia lead the coalition.

>>32919490
"Things that never happened"

Everybody ready for another pointless and avoidable war of conquest in the middle east that will speed the US down the road of decline while "Patriots" and the media cheers our forces on and tells us that it's in our interests?

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>>32919572
but persian warbrides, anon
persian warbrides

>>32919490
No? But I do remember idiots like you always posting your kike memes with your bullshit drivel.

>>32917018
Same results as with Iraq only faster because iran has a weaker military, they barely stalemated Iraq.

>>32917141
Correction: The USMC's "M1A1HA" is actually called the M1A1HC, and they've upgraded it since getting them in the early mid 90s btw/

>>32919136
Wut? What was I wrong about? I said a guerrilla war in Iran would be nasty, it's a big country full of muslims

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>>32919490
Remember when whole Syria thing started and /k/retins collectively reveled in delusion that Assad will finish this off in couple of weeks just because they have American tech? "Steel spearheads of T-72s will steamroll through shitheaps of Jihadis", kek. Needless to say, dragon dildo mouthbreathers deriving knowdlege about warfare from videogames are not the best experts on the war with Iran either.

>>32919501
I thought CSAT was a coalition between Turkey, Iran and China?

>>32917018
Most common tanks you see in Iranian army is a mix variant of T-55s, some are fairly upgraded but again are just T-55s and won't amount to anything against the Americans. Other than that they have T-72S tanks, the export model of the T-72B and a better tank than the T-72Ms Iraq had, by a lot actually, they have 480 of them or so, so not really much of a threat but more than Iraqs. They also have the is called the Zulfiqar, it's a Frankenstein design mix of the T-72 and most likely the M60, they have 250 of them, so not really a threat.

They have a few MiG-29s and some F-14s, but are old and their flying condition is dubious, no match for F-15s, let alone F-22s.

They have RPG-29s, which will be the biggest threat to NATO, they have typical morters and rifles (AK and AR clones), nothing too special here or anything NATO hasn't been facing for the past 14 years now.

I don't see how Iran could possibly pose any bigger threat than Iraq, their differences in power are negligible when you compare to the US alone, let alone a NATO coalition force.

Three to four days of actual fighting until Iran loses out right or it's army just gives up and runs away. Several years if US occupies them like Iraq.

>>32919062
To point out, those T-72s are T-72S tanks, and not the T-72M that most think of when you mention export model T-72, it's a T-72B, with the right ERA they can replicate late 80s red army T-72s, but with Iranian crews it won't matter, even if they had Soviet crews modern Abrams severely out matches any T-72 anyways.

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>fighting Iran

inb4 some big-nosed "Iranians" attack US forces in the region.

>>32919250
Iraq was 14 years ago

>>32917018
The way I view a war with Iran is one which will inevitably be won, but one which will take time and will incur more casualties than we are used to. Iran would not be another Iraq. You will not see desertions anywhere near the scale you saw in Iraq. The same with the number who surrender on contact. The Iranians would be far more willing to actually fight. I would guess that such a conflict would mean at least 10 thousand casualties for coalition forces. This is lower than what was predicted for Desert Storm by a long shot. I'd actually tend towards those predictions (up to 30,000 coalition casualties or more). Iraq's forces were most certainly overestimated, which is why I'm placing it at 10,000. Now, that is not to say that it's guaranteed, just how I see it.

>What are the expected results of a war between Iran and NATO/ Coalition/ ISAF forces?
For starters, I don't know if most of NATO and other American allies would even consider invading Iran.

Iran's open for business now, the rest of the world is trading with it, it's just America that has the problem. Same with Cuba, where the only country that really sanctioned it was America, while the rest of the world was still free to buy their cigars for decades.

>>32919490
>>32919894
>muh jews
Seriously, does anyone have anything else good to say about Iran other than this?

Unrelated to this thread, but who enforces the draft? Like in the case of not responding to my summons, who exactly comes to collect me?

>>32919988
>contrarians hate whatever is big
>America is big
>Iran hates America
>contrarians like Iran

it's not that complicated

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>>32919808
Iranian T-72S in pic related

As you can see this isn't the T-72M you've seen in Iraq, especially since it has some light ERA (Possibly kontakt-1) all over the armor to give it additional protection against heat warheads (nothing against kinetic penetrators like sabots) 540mms against KE and 950mm againt CE at best, this would have been interesting in 1991 if we invaded Iran instead, but today this armor might as well be the T-72M of Iraq back in 91.

However, they can shoot ATGMs, so this might pose some threat if they can get their hands on something worthwhile.

>>32919808

Iranian AA defence
1.Artillery
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/164282.html
2.Misslies
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/166428.html
3.Radars
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/168763.html

Iranian artillery
1.Rocket artillery
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/156051.html
2. Howitzers
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/159350.html
3. Mortars
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/161170.html

Iranian rocket shield
1. Ballistic strategic and tactical misslies.
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/154220.html
2. Anti-ship missiles
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/154722.html

Light anti-tank weapons
1. ATGMs
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/178035.html
2. Recoilless rifles and RPGs.
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/179403.html

Helicopters
1. http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/203683.html
2. http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/218754.html

Transport aviation
http://imp-navigator.livejournal.com/247507.html

Whatever they lack, *someone* else will provide. Remember Lebanon in 2006? All those Vampirs and Kornets materializing from thin air. There's a bunch of new toys that needs to be tested since then.

>>32919988

You don't need to say good things about a nation to not want to invade them. Besides, Shiite nations pose much less threat to the west than wahhabi faggot nations like Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Having autonomy in a region is less dangerous to me than funding mosques and salafist extremism in western nations.

>>32917018
>this thread again

>>32920031
They wouldn't get them fast enough, and none of this will amount to much unless Iran can successfully deploy them in large enough numbers in the right places

Anything Iran could possibly get their hands on won't amount to anything, this isn't Israel, this is the US with NATO coalition forces, they will shit stomp Iran so hard other countries will accuse them of warcrimes.

>All those laughably outdated weapons you linked

Oh man, this is nostalgic, all this cold war era weapons makes me hope that the US doesn't decide to destroy all those AKMs and perhaps one day we can get them imported post puppet government take over.

>>32919599
I have a huge fetish for Iranian women or middle eastern women.

>>32920032
>Shiite nations pose much less threat
>this meme again
Because the nuclear program is completely peaceful, right?

>>32917450
>implying WW2 grade weapons aren't well equiped
>implying M2 is also not "Well equiped"

>>32920007
35 posters, 85 posts
>implying this isn't one sandnigger iranian samefagging.

BTW sandnigger, I hope the Israelis bomb your shit hole country soon.

>>32920031
>Toophan-2
>760mms penetration
>under 4 km penetration

That's obsolete for 80s era tanks since T-72Bs have 900-950mms of frontal (Turret and hull) armor, which is less than the Abrams. Jesus christ what a joke.

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>>32920077

Countryside general, is that you? lmao

>>32920131
>4kms of range*

>>32919136
I learned that <5% of NATO troops involved over 15 years were killed or wounded and most of those were truck drivers.
This less than the number of nogs who killed each other in the US during the same time frame.

>>32920119

The one that's been under attack for the past few decades? Can't say I know of anyone that's died from Iranian nukes yet.

If you want to suck kike dick that's your choice, but you're going to need better arguments to convince others. You honestly sound like some faggy neocon.

>>32919136
>>32918839
>>32918496
>>32917654
>>32917640
>>32917190
You all seem to be forgetting the one ingredient that every essential insurgent group has had: a protected rear base in another country. For example Iraq had Sunni Syria who supported AL Qeda in Iraq, and Iran who supported all the shia terror groups, thus making Iraq a complete clusterfuck. As for Afghanistan the taliban hides in the one sunni region they can which is pakistan.

Now if Iran gets pincered (because US troop are already on three sides, army troops east and west, and navy south) they will be conquered forthwith and have to rely on an insurgency. Now the only Shia islamic country around them is Iraq, but northern Iraq is Kurdish, who will not help fund a shia insurgency. So pray tell where will this magical iranian rear base be?

remember this is true:>>32919088

>>32920165
Thanks for proving there is no reason to like Iran

>>32920064
It's mostly a form of shitposting by the pro-assad crowd to try and masturbate over how powerful they think Iran is

>>32920119
>Because the nuclear program is completely peaceful, right?
They need to defend themselves from Israel somehow.

>>32920208

Do you attack everyone you don't like in your life? How many bosses have you killed so far?

You haven't given a single reason for the US to invade Iran and put American lives at risk. Do you have stock in PMCs? Does your last name echo by any chance?

Dead jews and dead muzzies are always nice, but not at the risk of actual human lives.

Umm guys they have the sm1 and have home brewed clones of it they also have 150 i hawk systems those are some nasty fucking aa assets
Then they have the pantisir sa 22 the tor missile system 9 s300 plus knock offs of other systems..

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>>32919372
>>we're all adults here
>>/k

>>32920225
That makes my ass sad.

>>32920258
Are you stupid? Reread my first post; I only wanted to know the argument for pro-Iranian side

>>32920307

Well one could argue that Israel's stance on Iran is a positive endorsement of Iran's character. If Israel hates you chances are you're doing something right.

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>>32917018
>What are the expected results of a war between Iran and NATO/ Coalition/ ISAF forces?

Quick knockout of Iranian in conventional warfare.

A decade of getting bitch-slapped by Guerilla Warfare.

A hasty retreat and trillions of dollars spent and tens of thousands of lives lost and hundreds of thousands wounded, by the time the propaganda fades and the jingoism runs out.

Overall it would be a massive US loss and one that would end US Superpower status by the time it was over, like the Afghanistan War did the Soviets.

Alright, infodump time. Here's what Iran is capable of:

It should be noted that unlike North Korea/China/Israel etc Iran is quite open with their military developments. This is because they make themselves out to be stronger than they are, and use a large number of propaganda-only weapons for display and parades. The infamous “Iranian Stealth Fighter” fiberglass mockup is perhaps the most example

>Army: ~350,000 Active, ~300,000 Reserve
*Handguns: SIG P226 & M1911 Clones
*SMGs: MP5 & Uzi Clones
*Rifles: G3A6, AK-47, and Norinco CQ (M16) Clones
*Machine Guns: RPK, PKM, MG3, & DShK Clones
*Sniper Rifles: SVD Clone, Steyr HS.50 AMR Clone, M99 AMR, Siyvash 20mm AMR
*Unguided AT Weapons: RPG-7/Type 69, RPG-29, SPG-9, M40
*Guided AT Weapons: Toophan (TOW), Dehlavie (AT-14), AT-13, Towsan (AT-5), AT-4 (North Korean), Raad (AT-3)
*MANPADs: Misagh-1/2 (SA-16/18), Sahand (SA-7/14), RBS-70

Next part below

>>32920411
*~1,700 MBT’s: ~500 T-72S/M/M1, ~100 Chieftain, ~150 M60A1, ~100 M48 Patton, ~50 M47 Patton, ~75 T-62 (North Korean), ~200 Safir-74 (Upgraded T-54), ~140 T-54/55, ~200 Type 69, ~200 Type 59
*Tanks Note: A series of Zulquifar domestically produced tanks (largely derived from the M60 and T-72) are often shown on display but have never shown to have reached operational service. Most in fact are towed on trucks on parade, indicating they are probably without the ability to move
*~1,700 APC/IFV’s: ~200 M113, ~500 BTR-60, ~200 Boragh (BMP-1), ~100 Type 63, ~100 Rakhsh (North Korean M1992), ~200 BMP-1, ~400 BMP-2
*~230 Recon: ~30 EE-9 Cascavel, ~100 Sayyad Tankette, ~100 Sarir (BRDM-2)
*260 Self-Propelled Artillery: ~60 2S1 Gvozdika 122mm, ~150 M109 155mm, ~10 Koksan 170mm, ~20 M107 175mm, ~20 M110 203mm
*Artillery Note: Several SPH prototypes based on the 2S1 and M109 (Raad-1 & 2 respectively) have been shown off on parades but there’s no evidence they are operational
*~2,000 Towed Artillery: ~150 M101 105mm, ~500 HM-40 (D-30) 122mm, ~100 Type 60 (D-74) 122mm, ~1,000 Type 59 (M-46) 130mm, ~20 Type 66 (D-20) 152mm, ~100 GC-45 155mm, ~50 HM-41 155mm (M114 Mod.), ~20 M115 203mm
*~1,800 MLRS: ~1,000 Type 63 107mm copied as Haseb, ~300 BM-21 122mm given a variety of mods/designations, ~100 North Korean M1985 240mm copied as Fajr-3, ~50 330mm Fajr-5s copied from the Chinese Weishi-1. The rockets fired from these vehicles have been used extensively by Hamas & Hezbollah, where they have been shown to be very inaccurate but easy to produce
*SPAAG: ~100 ZSU-23-2, Lots of various civilian vehicles with a 23mm & 57mm AA mounts
*~2,000 Towed AAA: ZPU 14.5mm, ZU-23-2 23mm, ~150 Oerlikon GDF 35mm, ~150 Type 74 37mm, S-60 57mm, ~20 Samavat 100mm (KS-19)
*~40 AH-1J Attack Helicopters including ~7 modified frames designed Toufan
*~215 Transport Helicopters ~150 UH-1/Mods, ~25 Mi-8/17, ~20 CH-47, ~20 Bell 206/Mods

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I'm glad to see the peaceful Saudis as vigilant as ever in ensuring the middle East is stable and all conflicts are resolved peacefully

>>32920421
>Air Force: ~28,000
~170 Fighters (~25 MiG-29A, ~20 F-14A, ~24 J-7, ~20 F-5 mod variants, ~40 F-5E/F, ~40 F-4E)
~40 Attack Aircraft (~12 Mirage F1, ~20 Su-24, ~10 Su-22 of unknown operational status)
*Fighters Note: Iran has several dozen F-14 remaining airframes but best sources (IISS, Janes, Globalfight, Planeman) all place the number of operational aircraft at around 15-20
*~20 Light/VIP Transports (~5 Falcon 20, ~3 Falcon 50, Lockheed Jetstar, ~4 Socata TB, ~3 Aerocommander 500, ~5 Saab 340)
*~30 Transports (~20 C-130 believed operational, ~10 Y-7/An-24)
*~17 Strategic Transports: (~10 Il-76, ~3 Boeing 707, ~4 Boeing 747)
*~90 Trainers (~10 F-5, ~25 Beechcraft Bonanza, ~25 Saab Safari, ~30 PC-9)
*~30 UH-1 Helicopters
*Iran operates a very large fleet of drones with many varieties. Most are derived from North Korean and ironically Israeli designs. Iranian drones are all over the region now, seen in conflicts in Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, Yemen, Sudan, the Horn of Africa, and Iraq. Most Iranian drones are small and short range and dozens have been lost to the Israeli Air Force in various Gaza/Lebanon conflicts, with several being downed by Patriot Missiles despite their small size. Iran still lacks few true UCAV with extended range, though several Predator mockups are displayed for propaganda reasons. Currently the most capable Iranian UAV is probably the Fotros, which is heavily based on the Israeli Heron. Another variant based on the Israeli Hermes-450 is also becoming quite popular. Iran has displayed several of its drones carrying small bomb loads to give them offensive capability, but they do not have the fire control systems necessary for a Reaper-style aerial attack platform.

>>32920441
>Air Defense Force: ~12,000
*1 S-300V Battery totaling 4 Launchers was recently transferred from Russia. In 2011 debuted a S-300 lookalike system designated Bavar-373 several years but there was a fake radar attachment and there’s no evidence of operational deployment. The Bavar-373 has a strong resemblance to the North Korean KN-06 system, which many also think is simply a propaganda/display weapon. In any regard, the Iranian S-300 is the only credible threat to Western/Saudi/Israeli aircraft
*~30 MIM-23 I-Hawk Batteries given the designations Mersad and Shahine
*~40 Sayyard-1 Batteries. Reverse-engineered Chinese HQ-2, itself a copy of the Soviet SA-2/S-75 Dvina
*~10 Ghareh Batteries. Reverse-engineered Soviet SA-5/S-200
*~10 SA-6 Batteries (believed to be under IRGC control)
*~20 SA-15/Tor Launchers
*~10 ex-Shah Tigercat Launchers
*~30 ex-Shah Rapier Launchers
*~10 SA-22/Pantsir Systems
*~4 RIM-66 ground launchers designated Talash
*A New Iranian SAM, the Ra’ad, has been displayed recently which seems to be a copy of the Russian SA-11/Buk M1. It bares a strong resembalance to a recent North Korean clone of the system and the DPRK is likely the source

>>32920450
>Navy: ~18,000
*The Iranian Navy is all Corvette-classed vessels (~1,000-2,000 tons) but give them larger designations such as Destroyer for propaganda reasons.
*1 Moudge Class Corvette with another allegedly in construction. The first “fully built” Iranian ship, it is essentially based off of the Shah-era Alvand class. Armament consists of 1 76mm gun, 40mm & 20mm AAA, 4 C-802 AShMs launchers, a RIM-66 SAM Launcher, and 2 triple 324mm Torpedo stations
*3 Shah-era Alvand Class Corvettes. Armament of 1 114mm Gun, 4 C-802 AShM launchers, 30mm & 25mm AAA, 2 81mm Bombardment Mortars, 1 ASW Mortar, and 2 Triple 324mm Torpedo launchers.
*2 Shah-era Bayandor Class Patrol Corvettes. These ships are in very poor condition and are of questionable operational readiness. Armament is a 76mm Gun and assortment of 40mm and 20mm AAA
*12 La Combattante II Missile Boats with C-802 AShMs
*3 Kilo Class Submarines, probably the only credible naval threat to US ships. However they are 1980s-era vessels and not up to date. They would prove vulnerable to modern USN detection, ASW aircraft, and weapons systems
*1 Fateh Class Submarine based on the Kilo design and roughly 1,200-1,800 tons was revealed recently. This class probably has the same issues with the Iranian Kilo’s
*Lots of misc. patrol craft including 3 PGM-9, 4 Pashe, 2 MIG S-1800, 15 Kashdom, 30 Peterson PBI, 6 Mk.II PBR
*Large numbers of other small attack craft are operated by the IRGC which I will list below
*Iranian naval aviation operates around ~20 UH-1 and Mi-8 patrol & transport helicopters, ~10 SH-3 Sea King ASW Helicopters, ~3 RH-53 Sea Stallion ASW/Mine helicopters, and 3-5 P-3 Orion ASW aircraft

>>32920467
>IRGC Ground Forces: ~100,000
*The IRGC Ground Force has the purpose of quelling dissent in the country, protecting the regime against a regular army mutiny. In the event of war, they would attempt guerrilla/asymmetric war against invading armies. They are not a conventional combat force nor are they a type of Republican Guard elite with the best weapons and training. IRGC units have performed adequately in Syria and Iraq, but far from the very high standards most media sources give them.
*As for equipment, the IRGCGF operates small numbers of T-54 and Type 59 tanks, around 50 FV101 Scorpion Light Tanks, BTR-60 APCs, BMP-1&2 IFVs, and light armored patrol vehicles primarily drawn from North Korean designs. The primary vehicle of the IRGCGF, just as it was in the Iran-Iraq War, is still the Technical.
*They are better equipped with Artillery due to their role of putting down mutinies/rebellions, including several hundred Type 63 107mm, Grad 122mm, & Fajr-3 240mm Systems. Field Artillery consists of mostly ex-Iraqi army weaponry including D-20 152mm Howitzers, Type 60 122mm Field Guns, and around 40 2S1 122mm SPH’s.

>>32920480
>IRGC Air Force: ~5,000
*This force primarily operates Iran’s ballistic missile force and due to Iran’s defense policy revolving primarily around bombarding its neighbors cities with missiles in the event of war, is the most important/prestigious service. The IRGCAF also operates a small fleet of VIP aircraft used by officials or for infiltration. Until recently it also had a small fleet of light counter-insurgency aircraft, but due to the wars in Syria/Iraq most of the aircraft have been destroyed or sold off to allies and according to the IISS the 2 COIN squadrons were quietly disbanded in mid-2016
*The IRGC Ballistic Missile force models itself heavily on North Korea and is primarily designed to strike civilian targets and infrastructure until a war is ended on preferable terms. This is same the model Iran has given Hamas/Hezbollah/Assad. The actual arsenal consists of:
*Several thousand Artillery Rockets, mainly the Zelzal-1/2/3 which is derived from the Soviet FROG-7
*Several Hundred Fateh-110 SRBM’s. This is a newer missile derived from North Korea and includes an alleged anti-shipping variant which given Iran’s lack of orbital guidance and the missiles low speed/range/accuracy would make it poor in the role of a true anti-ship ballistic missiles. The “Khalif Fars” Fateh-110 variant is likely a propaganda weapon, released at the same time that US media hype of the Chinese DF-21D ASBM was at its peak. In any regard the Fateh-110 is the only Iranian missile that can be described as even semi-accurate with around the same hit probability as the Chinese DF-11 of which it is closely related to. It is produced widely in Syria as the M-600 and has seen mass use in the Syrian Civil War, mostly to destroy large buildings
*~500 Shahab-1/2 SRBM’s. These are derived from the North Korean Hwasong-5/6, themselves derivatives of the Soviet Scud-C/D respectively. have all the strengths & weaknesses of the classic Scud design

>>32920488
*~50-100 Shahab-3 MRBM’s. These are derived from the North Korean Nodong-1. This is the only Iranian Ballistic Missile that can hit Israel and in war with the Israeli’s (or US/Arabs for that matter) is the only real Iranian means of hitting Israeli territory given the poor state of the Iranian air force. Several upgraded variants of the Shahab-3, such as the Ashoura and Sejjil, have been shown off to the media but don’t seem to have entered mass production. Iran is still struggling with the basic Shahab-3 design, the recent missile test that caused tensions with the new Trump administration saw the Shahab-3 detonate mid-flight.
*The Soumar Cruise Missile. This is probably the biggest missile threat to the US/Arab gulf states. It is essentially a reverse engineered Russian Kh-55 (supplied by Ukraine in the 1990s) and similar to the famous US Tomahawk but with a significantly reduced range. It can probably strike targets of around 1,000km away. Due to the high cost and difficulty in the Iranian ballistic missile program they have been investing most of their resources in mass producing the Soumar.
*The Ya-Ali Cruise Missile. This is derived from the Chinese C-802 and has around a 300-500km range.

>>32920499
*As for the IRGC Airfleet, before the Syrian War it consisted of:
*~10 ex-Iraqi Su-25 attack aircraft. 7 of these saw fighting in Iraq against ISIS in both Iraqi and Iranian hands. Several have been shot down to ISIS MANPAD’s and AAA and it’s unclear how many of the aircraft exist in Iran itself.
*~15 EMB-312 Tucano COIN & Trainer aircraft
*~11 An-74 STOL transports
*~10 Y-12 Light transports
*3-5 C-130’s. One infamously crashed into a building several years ago killing a large number of top IRGC officials. Another crashed recently as well on its way to Syria, unclear if it was from hostile fire or another accident
*~3 Il-76 strategic transports. These have seen heavy use ferrying men/weapons from Iran to Syria recently and at least one was destroyed on the runway by mortar fire.
*~15-20 Shahed-285 light attack & scout helicopters, derived from the Bell 206
*~20-30 Mi-8/17 Helicopters

>>32920511
>IRGC Navy: ~20,000
The IRGC Navy really only has one goal: To close the strait of Hormuz and create a global oil crisis in the event of war in order to end a conflict on favorable terms. It employs a very large number of small attack craft and coastal missiles in the hopes of overwhelming larger ships defenses. Casualties among the IRGCN would be very high in a conflict and as a result it is the most fanatical branch of the IRGC. Currently, its fleet consists of:
*~10 Huangfeng Class Missile Boats. These are the largest vessels operated by the IRGCN and are Chinese copies of the famous Osa design but with C-802 AShM armament
*~60 “Peykaap” family attack boats. These small craft are derived from the North Korean Taedong-A/B family and are designed around swarm tactics. They are equipped with either 2-4 AShM or torpedoes. They have short range and no anti-air ability, making them very vulnerable in open waters but effective against civilian shipping in close quarters.
*10 C-14 Cat missile boats from China
*15 Tarlan class torpedo boats
*~3 Kajami Class semi-submersible torpedo boats. These vessels were originally North Korean
*~24 Seraj-1 107mm Rocket boats. Notable in that they’re derived from the Bladerunner-21 sporting boat design and are quite fast, but their poor armament makes them vulnerable.

>>32920527
*~1,000 or so speedboats of different shapes and sizes. The most numerous is the Tourough class, a clone of the Swedish Boghammar. Most are equipped with a simple 12.7mm Machine Gun and RPG-7 crew team but the larger ones such as the MIL-40/55 have 107mm rocket launchers mounted. In the event of war these craft would prove effective against civilian shipping but would be extremely vulnerable to enemy aircraft and point defense guns.
*The IRGCN also operates a fleet of around ~20 midget Submarines, mostly the Ghadir which is a clone of the North Korean Yono class. These small subs are armed with 2 torpedoes and in war would attempt to sneak up on enemy vessels. However much like North Korean midget subs in general they have short range and are quite noisy.
*A large arsenal of coastal Anti-Ship Missile batteries. Despite a wide variety of designations and copies, they primarily operate 3 systems: the Chinese C-802, C-701, and HY-2 Silkworm. These missile launchers pose a credible threat to vessels that venture too close to the coast but are vulnerable to screening aircraft
*The IRGCN also operates a ~5,000 strong Marine Corps which in war would primarily use a small fleet of North Korean derived hovercraft to seize key islands in the Persian Gulf from the UAE.
*The IRGCN also operates a small amount of aircraft, most notably Mi-8 helicopters and small lightly armed WIG aircraft designated Bavar-2.

>>32920539
*Quds Force: ~20,000
This is probably the most important arm of the Iranian regime in recent years, vital in Yemen, Iraq, & Syria against Sunni insurgents and in Lebanon against Israel. They are often described by media as “elite” special forces but really don’t operate as such, rather they are used to set up militias and terrorist networks to aid groups friendly to the Iranian regime. The Quds Force itself rarely sees combat despite its name being a reference to “reclaiming” Jerusalem to Islam, though several high-ranking officers of the unit have been assassinated in Syria. They also are very involved in black market arms deals and ship large amounts of weapons to a variety of clients under international arms sanctions including Sudan and Eritrea. The Quds force was the primarily commanding force of the Syrian Civil War from 2012 until 2015 when it was unable to stop the advance of the opposition, which resulted in a Russian intervention.

>Basij: ~90,000 professional personnel plus ~1,500,000 volunteers
The actual size of the Iranian religious militia, the Basij, is quite controversial. The regime itself maintains it’s around 12-20 million but this has been seen as propaganda. The actual size of fighters it can mobilize is probably around 1,500,000. Their armament consists of small arms and in peacetime primarily are used to enforce religious dogma and quell dissent among the population. They were used widely against protesters in the election demonstrations several years ago. In the Iran-Iraq War the Basij were known for their human wave and suicide attacks, and the regime would likely employ them the same way in any future invasion.

>>32920549

So ultimately, what can Iran do? It varies on the context. If the US conducted an Iraq-style invasion it would quickly bulldoze the conventional forces but the IRGC would organize asymmetric war that would see a mess. In the more likely scenario, that is a US/Arab air & naval campaign, Iran’s picture is far grimmer. It has little it can do besides attack oil shipping in the strait or hormuz or attack civilians with its large but inaccurate arsenal of ballistic missiles.
If for some reason Iran were to find itself solely in conflict with its Arab neighbors and not the West (an unlikely scenario) its prospects would improve. Even the UAE has a more powerful air force than Iran and they would still be forced into an asymmetric conflict that would see Iran technologically outmatched. But Iranian spoiling tactics regarding oil shipping and missile attacks on cities/infrastructure could probably force a ceasefire that would be seen as a propaganda/symbolic victory.
Against Israel, Iran previously relied on Hezbollah to bog down the Israeli’s in any conflict with the “classic” combination of rocket attacks on cities, AT teams on the border, and human shields to protect key assets. However the Syria conflict has consumed most of Hezbollah’s resources and it is not in any shape to be fighting Israel right now. This leaves Iran only real ability to strike the Israeli’s with its arsenal of Shahab-3 ballistic missiles. Given the limited number of Shahab-3’s, the missiles accuracy issues, and the rapidly advancing Israeli missile defense shield, this would not be an effective tactic unless WMD’s are employed, a decision that would likely take Iran with it. Iran could also conduct a terrorist act in another country, as it has done against a Jewish center in Argentina and Israeli embassy staff in India & Thailand

G’night

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I don't understand. Why are anons so curious now about the US/NATO vs Iran? It's not like we've got any reason to go to war against them

>>32920571
>So ultimately, what can Iran do?

Why would US even invade? They would get bogged down and then beaten back over the course of several years. An invasion of Iran would drain the already debt-ridden country, similar to the Soviets in Afghanistan.

>>32920609
The Soviet War in Afghanistan and a war with Iran wouldn't have much of a comparison since Afghanistans government was allied to the USSR.

Iran's military and government would fall within a week of current US military, if Trump increases military like promised I wouldn't be surprised if Iran falls within 2 days.

>>32920589
Most predators like to pick on smaller weaker prey. Same instinct here, anons just wanna see how quickly and savagely the US would beat Iran.

>>32920639
People mumbled about the same thing in Vietnam. The War would be over in weeks they said.

Look at how that ended up. Iran would be like Iraq x10s. US cannot afford that right now, the country would collapse.

>>32920669
Vietnam isn't Iran, Vietnam was split in halves, one pro capitalist, one pro communist. Iran is an islamic country, not split in half.

The US military wasn't trained or ready for the type of warfare it saw in vietnam, it is now, and after 14 years of doing it in Iraq and Afghanistan, moving to Iran won't be any different, Iran will fall within a week, the occupation is what will last, the actual "war" would be more of an exageratted target competition between coalition force "I got that iranan t-72S at 4 KMS!" "Well I got mine at 5!".

If you actually recall, both Iraq wars resulted in the Iraqi army being defeated fairly quickly, it'll be the same in Iran, which is what this thread is actually talking about.

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>>32919988
>Space program
>Nuclear program
>Advanced medicine
>Top tier universities
>Culture and legacy steeped in 5000 years of Persian history
>All this despite decades of sharia law, international embargo and simultaneous proxy wars against US, Israel and Saudi Arabia, three main sponsors of terrorism in the world

>>32920711
>it is now, and after 14 years of doing it in Iraq and Afghanistan

Yes, and in 14 years the Taliban hasn't been defeated. That ought to tell you something. ISIS still remains despite hundreds of thousands of airstrikes. A group of untrained goat farmers is fucking the most powerful military in the world. The War against ISIS should go on for another several years.

If a small insurgent force can cause US that much trouble, imagine a country of +80 Million all engaging in guerilla War. There would be an Rifle under every rock, and an ATGM behind every tree.

$4 Trillion has already been spent on the Iraq and Afghanistan War. An Iran invasion would easily cost another $10 Trillion. US does not have the money or political will to go to War. Even now there are mass protests in every city, another War and there would be outright riots a War in the homeland and a War abroad. Politicians would fold like pancakes and the War would be immediately halted before it had a chance to really begin.

>>32920781
>muh Persian history!

>>32920175
Even the Arabs couldn't conquer Iran and they had over a thousand years to do it. The only thing they remotely succeeded in was kind of getting the persians to adopt a quasi form of Islam, but even then they were like yeah naw we're gonna make up our own version of Islam, fuck off.

>>32920804
Persian civilization has existed far longer than US, and will continue to exist far after US has collapsed and dissipated.

>>32920789
You have no clue what you're talking about

>Comparing insurgents to military

This isn't a group of sand niggers shooting and running once in a while, this is a military that will be ordered to fight the US, it'll lose, just like Iraq's did.

>ISIS remains

ISIS has been losing ground, it'll likely cease to exist by 2018, it's not like the Taliban, it's more aggressive and that's a bad thing for an insurgent force, it's not hiding itself as well so it's getting obliterated by Russian and American air strikes. You're oblivious to what's happening with ISIS so it's no wonder you don't have a clue about Iran's capabilities.

>all 80 million

Why isn't Iraq or Afghanistan's entire population doing the same? This statement is so bad it's comical.

The war in Iran will be the gulf war all over again, it'll be defeated and over with in days if the US just wants to knock out it's government and army. IF if occupies it'll have troubles, not with the insurgents directly, but with the population being so incompatible with western culture the US will eventually give up trying to convince them and leave.

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Why would we invade the one and only muslim country that likes us?

>>32920857
How will the Persian civilization last longer than the US if the Persians ceased to exist by 651 AD

>>32920789
Technically speaking, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are both effectively toothless old men at the current time. It's the other groups that are the problem now.

>>32920869
>Why isn't Iraq or Afghanistan's entire population doing the same?

Because it is not a divided country, you literally said it yourself. Despite what Western media portrays, the Ayotollah is extremely popular in Iran. Similar to Russia and Putin. The governments in those countries are vastly more stable than in America and the people are far more supportive.


>ISIS has been losing ground, it'll likely cease to exist by 2018

Like I said, several more years. Hundreds of thousands of additional air and artillery strikes. Billions of dollars, etc. A group, with barely even a 30,000 members even at its peak. US doesn't stand a chance against a group with several million in its ranks.

>Comparing insurgents to military

Taliban was the government and military of Afghanistan. ISIS operates as its own state, down to domestic policy, land ownership, and taxation. Both are still standing. You are confusing them with Al Queda, which is an insurgent group. US has been fundamentally incapable of defeating either despite Trillions in spending, thousands of lives, and decades of War. Iran is all of that multiplied by a factor of 10-15x plus unlimited support from China and Russia just to fuck with America. This is the winning combination to take down an empire. America would end up drained and collapse, similar to all the hundreds of other Empires in the past who all thought they were invincible.

>>32920904
Iranians are the inheritors of Persian civilization, like the Russians are to the Soviets.

>>32920995
Al-Nusra/Al-Sham/HTS is just Al Queda with a name change, and they pose a serious problem in Syria. Taliban still controls vast swaths of the country, and has a decent chance of taking over Afghanistan again if US forces leave. I wouldn't call that 'toothless old men'.

>>32917190
actually no, I have an Iranian uncle and most of their army is drafted guys who are just kicking around waiting for their service period to end. I'm sure there are patriotic Iranians, but I wouldn't say their army as a whole would be any more committed than any other conscript-based army.

>>32921017
You're retarded, 80 million Iranians will not be fighting in the war, the vast majority will try to flee as their cities are demolished by coalition air strikes. That's a very childish way of viewing a countries military capabilities. Try again.

ISIS has ceased to exist, you said it'll last for several more years, it won't, it's already on it's knees now. Try again.

Iranian army vs US army in a conventional war will last mere hours, the US is far larger, more advanced, and far more experienced and well trained. It'd be a blood nightmare, Iran's only hope is to throw it's uniforms down, and start an insurgency assuming US forces stay. This means Iran and it's military loses try again.

If Iran and the US go to war, the Iranian army will be defeated within days, and it's government will collapse. The point of the thread is Iranian government/military forces against NATO/US. Not "How well will the US do in another occupation" occupations never work, nobody here is really disputing that, though some here have good arguments on why the US will fair better in Iran than Iraq, but the thread is about Military vs Military, not insurgency vs occupying forces.

Maybe invest in improving your reading comprehension m8, if you really think 500~ T-72S/M tanks can fight even 6000 M1A1/A2 Abrams (Not even including Leopard 2s or Challenger 2s) then you are delusional. (I'm aware it's more complicated than comparing x amount of unit vs x but it serves my point that Iran is nothing compared to the US.)

>>32921052
Then you can argue that whoever inherits the US will do the same, you can't compare "Culture" (Though Perisan culture and Islamic culture is different you silly) with empires. m8

>>32921098
>drafted guys who are just kicking around waiting for their service period to end.
That's what most armies are in general.

>>32919920
I was counting from '09, but yeah.

>>32920225
I hate Assad and I think Iran is shit, but I'm not going to let people just beat off to the idea that invading Iran is a cakewalk.

Too many people came home in coffins over the same shit in Iraq.

>>32921286
Three thousand or so, not a bad trade off for conquering an oil enriched country m8

>>32920781
what all of this cultural development means is that it wouldn't just be US vs Iran. We couldn't attack Iran without starting WWIII.

More importantly, we shouldn't attack Iran, because they are the best nation in south asia, and because (contrary to what brainwashed americans believe) most Iranians love America.

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>>32921143
>he think Iran will fight like conventional military from the start

Kekus Maximus

>>32918496
>It makes Afghanistan look flatter than Taylor Swift.

Savage Kek

>>32920301
I see what you did there. It was funny.

OP here, the obly reason I asked in the first place is because all the rhetoric from DC along with me and my friends being in the military, I figured a bunch of autists would be able to give me the minutiae of a war with Iran. At least the first year or so (apparently it wont last that long in the conventional sense)

>>32920855
they fuck? last I checked the US was militarily superhumans compared to arabs. If arabs suck at war saying they cannot achieve something doesnt mean it cannot be done. Hell the arabs have lost to israel three times despite everytime having a massive advantage in men and material.

> The only thing they remotely succeeded in was kind of getting the persians to adopt a quasi form of Islam, but even then they were like yeah naw we're gonna make up our own version of Islam

THat is exactly what will fuck any hope Iran has of a successfuly insurgency. The only thing more hated by the Sunnis that the US is the Shia. By inflaming sectarian tensions Iran was able to gain power in the region, but those same tensions destroy any hope of having a base in another country to launch attacks from. TL:DR, irans short term power play is a massive strategic vulnerability.

>>32920175

You seem to be having your head firmly logded up your ass and to be entirely ignorant about the topic.

>Shia areas of Iraq
>Afghanistan&Pakistan where Iran has established a good deal of influence
>Central asian neighbours
>Russia right next door
>good relations with China, which also menas a side order of more influence in regards to Pakistan

Iran has it positively luxurious when it comes to establishing safe rear areas.

Now if Iran gets pincered, they'll put up a bigger fight than anything the US has been in for half a century, and then put on an insurgency that in practically every category imaginable has the potential to make fucking Vietnam look small.

PS: Iranian kurds by and large support the iranian govenrment and would in fact help an insurgency.

>>32922737
Except the Iranians have enough influence in virtually every single last country bordering them to potentially set them up as a base - plus two great powers that'd be potentially inclined to help them. Tl;dr: You know literally less than nothing about what you're talking of.

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>Americans plan to fight a war in this

wew lads

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Sure lots of open space to get those M1s rolling

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This looks easily traversable by humvees

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Those ridges look like perfect route for some Bradley scouting.

>>32922405
You're a faggot.

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>>32917018
Invading Iran isn't really on the table

In a full scale war they could
>shoot a lot of cruise and ballistic missiles at US and allied facilities in the region, many of which are hardened inside well camouflaged underground bases
>mine the Straits of Hormuz and present an impassible missile/sub barrier that would have to be cleared away
>carry out asymmetric attacks like midget sub raids, suicide boat attacks
>activate a serious network of insurgents in Bahrain, HQ of the 5th Fleet
>present a not major but not insignificant anti-aircraft threat

All that could definitely be dealt with, but if you want to invade them...that's a whole other deal. You're gonna be facing hundreds of thousands of troops, dug into cities of millions of people and fortified mountain cave complexes, with more than enough ATGMs, MANPADS, shoulder-fired anti-tank weapons, with well-enough motivated and trained soldiers, willing to engage in suicide attacks too.

Their armor/mechanized units aren't anywhere close to being able to face American forces in the field, and won't matter much in the balance.
They have a lot of artillery though, especially relatively small, portable and disguise-able MLRS systems that will be useful for a constant inaccurate peppering fire on any American forces on Iranian soil.

Iran is a very big country, much bigger than Iraq, and much more mountainous, with bigger and harder-to-take cities. To get to Tehran you'd have to cross the entire country.

Minimum casualties to clear the Persian Gulf, invade and take Tehran: tens of thousands. Also, massive global oil price spike.

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Our job today is to smoke out 10'000 religious fanatics from the bunkers in these mountains boys. Get sum!

>>32923584
First that base doesn't exist yet. Second, they would have to construct it while they are being invaded from the east, west, and south. Iran has no influence in countries to their north. Therefore Iran has to somehow move large quantities of men and military material through the American lines in order to even set up a base of operations, and this is made even more shit because they have to bring sufficient money to bribe all the locals into allowing their presence.

Also, Iran exerts its influence through military and monetary support. Once invaded Iran loses those two, and thus must rely upon shia/sunni sectarian tensions. Fun fact, there are no shia regions bordering Iran, so they need to bribe one of their neighbors into allowing their presence. Loyalty that can be bought can be bought by anyone...

Great powers supporting the insurgency means shit if there is no place for the fighters to rest their head. Literally every successful insurgency has had a base inside a neighboring country to operate out of, NO exceptions, even if the insurgency is being supported by one or two great powers. Tl:dr, you know less than nothing, and in fact are an Iranian pussy who knows nothing about how the sectarian strife Iran has supported is exactly what prevents Iran from operating a successful insurgency if the US invades.

>>32924951
>>32924979
>>32925014
>>32925041
>>32925138
You know what can traverse this super well? Aircraft. Good thing the US has by far the best air support of any country in the world.

>Our job today is to smoke out 10'000 religious fanatics from the bunkers in these mountains boys. Get sum!

This is actually quite easy, you apporach until contact, and given how shit Iranian accuracy has been in videos from syria you have nothing at all to worry about, then call in CAS to drop a JDAM into the bunker. Rinse repeat until all the bunkers are cleaned out.

Also remember if our vehicles cannot traverse this region then neither can theirs; however, we will have air support and they will not.

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>>32925642
opps forgot the picture

>>32917738
Iranian military might as well be Arab. Have you seen them? From hilarious boghammers to actual concrete pasted onto ifvs.

>>32925067
>mine the Straits of Hormuz and present an impassible missile/sub barrier that would have to be cleared away

They tried this one. It did not go well for them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

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>>32924951
>>32924979
>>32925014
>>32925041
>armor needs flat plains to operate

Lel

>tfw armor can climb

welcome to hell your hell, kebab.

It's almost like tracks are great for climbing.

>>32917018
Iran is mountainous and allied with Russia & China. Open war would be like Afghanistan + Vietnam but 100x worse for NATO.

>>32926191
What are things said about iraq circa 1990 Alex?

>>32926275
>iraq
>mountainous
>not diplomatically isolated
????

>>32926405
>muh worse than Vietnam

Afterwords....

>muh isolated monkey model arabs

pottery

Reminder that a tiny segment of the USN sank half of the Iranian navy in ONE DAY.

>>32926405
Iraq had the same ties you are claiming Iran has, namely military procurements.

>>32926518
I doubt that China would miss a chance to make Trump stuck. Plus they have a very good reason to block US takeover of Iran. If Iran falls, US will have direct access to Central Asia, and that would make China encircled. Much easier to give Iranians atgms. And judging how things have gone in Syria, atgms can be a bitch for an army that has to man checkpoints.

>>32927668
ATGMs are tough for country's without the means (both hardware and tactically) to counter them.

>>32917018
Russia and North Korea are allied with Iran. Instant WW3.

>>32927690
I don't see a way to counter atgms when you have checkpoints manned by HUMVEEs or other light armored trucks. An atgm outrages all other direct fire weapons. When you have to hold a fixed position, the other side can take its time to take the best position to attack you.

>>32927854
So you're saying that dudes can hump and set up an ATGM without being noticed. Good luck.

One interesting thing people haven't brought up is that many in the younger generations dislike the theocratic rule, and trying to drive a wedge through the older and younger generations with the promise of a liberal democracy at the end of it being pretty enticing since many of them are very positive towards the west. One could also consider the role the shah might play, since the son of the one that got deposed is still living and could very well be used as a rallying call to create a parliamentary monarchy and restoration of the shah as head of state. Just a thought I had.

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>>32922737
>arabs suck at war
You don't conquer the middle east, byzantium, spain, egypt, india, persia...hell basically asia minor, northern africa, and southern europe by sucking at war.

>The only thing more hated by the Sunnis that the US is the Shia.
90% of Muslims are Sunni. What branch of Islam does Al Qaeda come from? What Branch of Islam does the Taliban come from? What branch does ISIS come from? They're all sunnis. If anything, sunni islam is the threat to the west, they are the branch of islam that is violent and uncompromising. And if you don't believe me, when is the last time Shia muslims beheaded a westerner? When was the last time Shia muslims launched a terrorist attack on the west? The fact that Shias are hated by the rest of the muslim world is exactly why we should be their allies, not their enemies.

>>32927716
Neither country has a defense pact with Iran, and neither would bet their survival on a sometimes capricious ally such as them, especially if the Coalition impresses that they mean business.

Syria is even closer to Russia than Iran, for example, and Russia only moved in when it was well clear the US wanted no part in the civil war. Had the US engaged in a NFZ, Russia would have militarily twiddled their thumbs.

If I was Iran's supreme leader...

>have fake installations and bases to throw off us satellites and drones
>develop low flying jet craft similar to f16 that can drop small hiroshima power nukes on tops of Abrams (basically suicide, but only way to take out Abrams in sufficient numbers)
>forget tanks, they won't help you
>invest in missiles, get some sweet Russian top of the line shit en mass (think 100,000 missiles) and put nerve agent in them
>ebolapox
>give every citizen in a heavily populated city an NBC suit
>hydrogen bombs burried in the desert and in flat areas
>tunnels in the mountains out the ass
>extremely low frequency radar
>latest version of the RPG
>all citizens given crystal meth to go full martyrdom
>dig tank trenches EVERYWHERE

and last but not least

>short range low flying fast missile loaded with dirty bombs, make a fuckton of these and have them stored in mountain sides

As for strategy,

spam missiles on top of US troops and armor, focus on asymmetric warfare and ambushes.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/418/arma3worldblocs.jpg
https://forums.bistudio.com/topic/157579-an-amusing-take-on-arma-3-from-an-iranian-not-me/

>>32919437
The fictional faction of CSAT has access to the Mediterranean. If you actually played the ARMA 3 campaign you'd know that Iran expanded its territory/influence and is the main leader of CSAT. If you actually listened to OPFOR radio chatter you'd know that it was in Farsi.

You're the reason why people think Americans are retarded.

>>32919501
No, Turkey is a part of CSAT and has been surpassed by Iran.

>>32920271
You're right, I should have realized.

>>32919737
Not exactly. If you look at my first link you'll see the world as exists in ARMA. In the ARMA 3 campaign you can run across a Russian sniper team implied to be some sort of combat advisors. In the early days of the beta there were a lot more references to Iran, but I believe most of it was made more obtuse. I think they went with an MEC route with battlefield where they just never specify what country is leading it.

This would almost certainly trigger WW3 though, which is why i'm looking foward to it. Trump said he's not going to give any forewarning like Bush did though unfortunately

>>32917018
Defeating Iran would be easy. Normalize relations and flood them with American culture. Very soon the huge youth population would kinda stop liking the strict religious stuff and bingo bango FREEDOM. Militarily a NATO air campaign for a year would significantly degrade Irans

>>32930014
It'd be a lot easier to just make relations with Israel and create a united front against the saudi's with US republican support

>>32930014

>people want to invade us to stop us from making nukes

>defense is to nuke them

wat

>>32921293
Conquered my ass, we just gave it back to them.

>>32926275
And they had every right to. Schwarzkopf pulled of an incredible feat and Bush pulled out before the insurgency could start.

>>32929656
>You don't conquer the middle east, byzantium, spain, egypt, india, persia...hell basically asia minor, northern africa, and southern europe by sucking at war.

remind me when that was?

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>>32917018
>Gombad

Operation desert Storm v2. Electric boogaloo.

>>32928424
Yeah, because setting up an atgm take so much time. Does anyone honestly think US can observe everything within a 4km radius of its checkpoint?

>>32917141
Good thing that the F15 and F16 were made in the 70s making the Iranian stuff more modern.

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>>32917018
>Durrrr, how would a coalition of countries do against one single country


Probably well.

So, this war is likely to happen? That's why we are talking about it, we are guessing about the actual future.