.223 doesnt kill terrorists

>>32914333
.223 is not designed to be a lethal round, it's made to wound and incapacitate so two more terrorists have to drag their terrorist buddy to the terrorist medic.
One bullet just took three terrorists out of the fight.

>>32914333

>stomach

think hard about this post and post again

>>32914333
5.56 home nugget. Not .223.

Anyway if you've seen a hajjis brain blown out by one. You wouldn't question it.

It's weird, it depends where you hit. In the brain cavity I've seen animals eyeballs get squished out. Our a torso shot and a very clean kill.

>>32914347
>Thinking that is how it works.
That is not how war works.

>>32914407
Way to take the obvious bate, my friend

>>32914333
checked
looks like it stopped him pretty good.

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>>32914333

Gotta make it fair.

.308 is fucking expensive.

>>32914333

>why do they keep using this cuck round?
Because tacticool faggots exist in their own reality.

>>32914333
actully really curious about this, after ages of reading debates after debates, the pro 223 niggers all shout muh shot placement! the anti fags muh lack of stopping power, both seems true however, but what about lets say HP or SP 223? will different grains make any differences for SD/HD? what about twist rate? barrel length?? im counting on my 55 grain HP steel cased shits so really hope i didn't buy into a meme

>>32914443
>We shot guys with a 5.56 millimeter center mass and had them walk in five hours later and say 'you shot me'. Then we would medically evacuate them. If you hit a guy center mass - he needs to die.
Is medically evacuate SOCOM slang for murder?

>>32914394
Yeah, the speedy little fucker tends to liquefy organs that seem vital to body function when they enter your brain box or even the torso.

>>32914508
>pro 223 niggers all shout muh shot placement
that or its like
>muh .223 must be shot out of 20" barrel read the manual

they will always find a reason to justify their .223

>>32914508

Actually no. When it's pointed out that a 6.5mm bullet is more accurate they immediately forget shot placement is king and start making endless excuses to protect their ego.

>"You don't really need to be accurate because the real military uses suppressing fire"
>"It's cheaper to make"
>"We have so much of it in stock we can't switch"
>etc, etc.

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>>32914512
idk

I hate cutouts that don't source.

>>32914570
The actual meme I see the most is that 6.5mm is too slow for hydrostatic shock.

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>>32914333
>shoot crazed man in the stomach
>he's still coming at you

Wow! Cuck rounds amirite?

>>32914566
so an 18.5" barrel would mean what? not enough fps? not reliable enough yaw effect? i would assume that hp/sp would kinda just fragment or tumble after 4"+ pene

>>32914333
terrorist looks pretty dead to me on this pic

>>32914592
It won't spin fast enough and will simply bounce off even unarmored skin.

>>32914576
http://docslide.us/documents/ethos-magazine-issue-10.html
Page 12.

>>32914592
The higher the spin rate and the higher the velocity the deadlier it is.
Velocity increases penetration and spin rate increases the amount of flesh that it rips of

>>32914588
Considering a 5.56 rifle is as effective as a pistol caliber carbine - the ultimate cuck weapon - in this situation, that seems to be the conclusion.

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>>32914588
7.62x39 would have stopped the terrorist immediately

>>32914333
desu I never expect a person to go down after 1 hit
Unless they're visibly brained

>>32914603
He doesn't look exploded.

>>32914642

Hey at least pistol caliber carbines don't pretend to be something they're not.

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>>32914333
What happened, is what you see in number 4 in pic related.
The .223 round just overpenetrated because the velocity was to high for such a short distance.

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>>32914333

If you shoot someone with a 7.62 x 51 in the stomach you'll most likely have a similar result.

The difference is the 5.56/223 has a chance of yawing and finding you liver/heart/other CNS.

Issue you will have with the 5.56 is over penetration with the older 62 grain NATO rounds.

>>32914502
>every first world military is nothing but tacticool faggots

.223 69grn OTM at 2850fps rips the shit out of people. It yaws quickly upon contact, causes massive hydrostatic shock, then spins itself apart, leaving multiple, widely spread jagged exit wounds. I use it on whitetail. Drops them on the spot with heart lung or headshot. Hit them anywhere else and they might make it 20yds. Got shots turn the whole abdominal cavity to mush. Muscle shots render an entire front quarter inediable.

>>32914642
>Considering a 5.56 rifle is as effective as a pistol caliber carbine
That's just ridiculous. 9mm out of an 18 inch barrel gives you what, somewhere between 1200 to 1800 fps, depending on the round? That's nowhere close to 5.56.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXwPtP-KDNk

>>32914903
But my meme!
Stop using facts!

>>32914903
>in this situation
Doesn't matter if the 5.56 is faster on paper if it still can't get the job done.
Fuck you're dumb.

>>32914642
>Considering a 5.56 rifle is as effective as a pistol caliber carbine
Confirmed retard

>>32914979
>J-Just hit them in the head, heart, or lungs and 5.56 works.
>just like 9mm would

so, did i was my canadian peso on buying a type 97? atleast she looks sexy in my autistic eyes to gaze at... 1:7 twist rate, 18.5" barrel, the 28" OAL is nice... but knowing that it might make the bad guy just laugh after i shoot at them and proceed to rape my family as i shoot them kinda scares me

>>32914970
"get the job done" is stochastic. Both can kill a man outright.. Both can leave a man injured but alive. The chance of either outcome depends on shot placement, how much tissue damage each causes, and whether or not the gods favor you. 5.56 clearly causes more tissue damage than 1500fps 9mm, all else being equal.

5.56 may very well be inadequate compared with 7.62, but you'll always be better off with 5.56 instead of a 9mm carbine. Prove me wrong.

>>32915029
put that twist rate to work with heavy ass projectiles and you and yours will be just fine.

>>32915033
You'll always be better off with a 20mm anti tank rifle, but if you have the same effective chance to kill (must hit a vital) as you do with 5.56 or 9mm then going with the cheaper, lighter recoiling option is clearly better.

>>32914333
>cuck round
Can this meme just stop? We all know that 5.56x45 is powerful enough to blow someone in half. That's why you can't hunt with it, because there wouldn't be any meat left.

>>32915029

Use fragmenting rounds or 77 grain OTM and you will be more than fine, 5.56 is super reliant on what ammo type you use.

>>32915003
9mm does not cause half the hydrostatic shock .223 does. 9mm headshot=hole.
.233 headshot=bits of skull hanging off of what might be a face.

>>32915052
Unless fired out of a gun without a flash hider or pistol grip. Then it's fine.

>>32915003
>thinking there are non anti material rounds that will reliably immediately incapacitate from a hit to a non-vital area
Confirmed double retard.

>>32915068
Clearly it's the bayonet lug that makes it too powerful for humane use

>>32915041
seems to favor the 69+ grain, which can be pritty expensive, i originally got my 5.56/223 because i was afraid of over penetration and shooting my neighbours, so i thought it would be better to use a 223 platform with HP/SP rounds which probably won't penetrate much after hitting some tasty human flesh. Im looking at windchester ranger 69 grain HPBT, 22 peso for 20 rounds, not a terrible price in this neck of the woods, think this b a good man stopper?

>>32915066
Which doesn't matter because they're both no longer able to do anything besides twitch a little bit.

>>32915073
>thinking that is at all what I'm saying
Confirmed illiterate, oh wait, you're just strawmanning because you're fucking wrong.

>>32915048
>9mm and 5.56 have the same effective chance to kill
I dispute that.

(If you hit a vital, both 5.56 and 9mm will give you near enough a 100% chance to kill. Though I'd wager there are more freak exceptions with 9mm. I'm sure a few people have survived 5.56 to the skull thanks to skilled surgeons, but I'd wager far more have survived 9mm to the noggin.... whatever, both are definitely good enough 99% of the time if you hit somebody in the head or right in the heart.)

HOWEVER I assert that the chance to kill with 5.56 is significantly greater than 9mm if you don't hit a vital. Neither is 100% by any means. But 5.56 will cause more tissue damage, which means that all else being equal it will cause a more rapid drop in blood pressure. On average you'll need fewer rounds of 5.56 to drop a man in a given time period. Prove me wrong.

If you view the world through a black and white filter, neither round will give you an assured kill unless you hit a vital, so both are equal. But the world isn't black and white. The shades of gray matter.

The soldiers tried to take him down with fistfighting at first.After one fired the round he went down pretty quick. I think it's better that he's alive so you could find out more about motives, complices etc.

>t. Kraut who visited the museum during the attack

>>32915078
Federal Gold Medal 69grn OTM runs closet to 30 ferrell 20, but the accuracy is worth it. Very sub-moa groups out of my Bushmaster 1:9 16" HBAR.

>>32915092
You are making the assertion, I do not bear the burden of proof.
Just a heads up, FBI stats are against you with 5.56 at 2.3 and 9mm at 2.7, both of which mean 3 shots. But I'm sure you can find some study that will agree with your twisted viewpoint if you look hard enough.

>>32915048
>same effective chance to kill (must hit a vital) as you do with 5.56 or 9mm
Under this logic, 9mm FMJ and 9mm HP/SP are equivalent.

>>32914512
>Is medically evacuate SOCOM slang for murder?
I always thought it was code for buttfucking.

>>32915136
Wound cavities are drastically different between 5.56 and 9mm, I'd challenge you to find a source that suggests otherwise.

>5.56 at 2.3 and 9mm at 2.7, both of which mean 3 shots.
That's not how probabilities work. You're significantly more likely to get lucky with 1 round of 5.56 than 1 round of 9mm. You're also significantly more likely to require 6 rounds of 9mm than 6 rounds of 5.56. Furthermore somebody hit with 3 rounds of 5.56 will almost certainly drop (and stay down) before somebody hit with 3 rounds of 9mm.

>>32915078

Liberty defense fragmenting rounds or DIRT. Guaranteed to dump energy into the target regardless of where they hit.

Is it literally the same autistic person who keeps making this same exact thread?

>>32915163

I think he must be pretty dumb. Using his logic you should just use .22. I personally use pistol rounds for home defense but it would be impossible to deny that 5.56 is a better manstopper.

>>32915089
>Confirmed illiterate, oh wait, you're just strawmanning because you're fucking wrong.
Youre saying anything that doesnt immediately incapacitate with a hit to a non vital area may as well be 9mm. Basically youre implying shot placement is a meme, which makes you one of the dumbest people on /k/

>>32914781
Stop trying to slander mommy REEEEEEEEEEEEE.

>>32915195
Yeah, I have nothing at all against people using 9mm. Obviously it's an incredibly successful round for a reason. But that doesn't justify ridiculous claims about equivalence between pistol and rifle rounds.

>>32914502
This.
>hurr we're just like the military pew pew
Fuck maybe if you had at least three guys laying it down in bursts of three it'd get you somewhere. Expecting much of anything to come of one shot of 5.56 is a joke.

>>32914347
>Implying sand niggers care to save their comrades

>>32915163
>reliably immediately incapacitate
>more likely to get lucky
These goalposts must be on a fault line or something.

>>32915213
>Youre saying anything that doesnt immediately incapacitate with a hit to a non vital area may as well be 9mm.
Correct.
>Basically youre implying shot placement is a meme
Absolutely not, no. I'm saying anything that relies on shot placement may as well be 9mm, since you have to aim it just as well as 9mm to get the job done reliably.

>>32914333
>.223
Literally fuck off with this meme, it is not the same as your GAYR, admitedly it is close, but 5.56 creates a much higher preassure in the barrel.

>>32915236
Someone needs to reuse the explosive vest.

>>32914333
5.56 (.223) was never intended to be "lethal"
The round was developed after the massive KIA #'s of the Korean war
Recognizing that the average soldier was doing "following orders" and thereby not the "enemy", it was decided to use a round that would incapacitate, but not kill, the enemy troops.
Even in todays military, training is to put 3 rounds in the bad guy and move on. Why? 3 rounds of 5.56 will take them out of the fight, but probably not kill them.
remember, 5.56 is nothing more then a .22 that moves faster and has better penetration

>>32915258
Also, in case you retards still haven't figured it out yet, these are just your arguments against 7.62x51 flipped around. I figured someone would notice the FBI statistics were totally bullshit but I guess not.

>>32915258
>reliably immediately incapacitate
5.56 is more likely to immediately incapacitate than 9mm.

I know concepts like "more likely" are hard for your B/W brain to get a handle on, but do try. Your brain is like a muscle, if you try using it I'm sure it will improve.

>>32915258
>shoot someone in the hand with .50bmg
>rips it off but not incapacitated as he has a sidearm in the other hand
>".50bmg is pretty much 9mm ammo"

Could it just be that firearms require
aiming?

Terminal ballistics on wet targets simplified:

Double the weight of projectile at given speed increases damage ×2.

Double the speed of a projectile at given weight increases damage ×4.

A simple general rule of terminal ballistics.

>>32915195
.22lr would do better as a self defense round then .223. the slower speed will cause the bullet to tumble inside causing a larger wound channel. a .223 would just pass right through

>>32915284
What I don't understand is why Israeli snipers would ever adopt 22lr as their less-lethal sniper round for riot control leg shots. Why not train them to put 3 rounds of 5.56 center of mass? It's only designed to wound after all, which makes it perfect for that specialty use-case!

MK262>>32914760
Or M193 will put them down very quickly

>>32915258
>i literally dont understand that a person has to be shot in a vital area to die in a reasonable amount of time.
Confirmed tripple retard

>>32915303
69grn OTM does not simply "pass right through". It fucking explodes.

>>32915303

Good point

>>32915296
Bruh don't you know that the shockwave of .50bmg traveling through the air that close to somebody would kill them instantly?

>>32914333
You're supposed to hit center mass, not guts. That is a somewhat survivable shot. It's the soldiers fault, not the round.

>>32914443
what are thoooooose

So is this a 7.62x39 thread?

>>32914333
>unironically thinking 9mm compares to 5.56

>>32915353
Only if they are using anti-material rounds, anti-personel rounds are more precise.

>>32915342
whats the differences between OTM and HP?? looks about the same, and can't find OTM/frag rounds in Cancuckisthan

>>32915358
>another .223 cuck justifying the .223

9mm shot to upper arm : hole, broken bone.

5.56 shot to upper arm: arm attached by strips of shin and ligament.

>>32915273
> soldier shot the terrorist
> soldier is in army
> army uses 5.56

why the fuck do you think he used .223? OP and you are wrong

>>32914333
Why don't they use shotguns?

>>32914347
That was an unintentional effect

It also does not work on drugged up terrorists who care only about getting to paradise

Even in modern armies, the first step in battlefield casualty drills is to win the firefight.

So yeah we /20mmIssueRifle/ now

>>32915455
m8 shin connects your feet, not your arms

>>32915473
That would be a war crime!
t. germans

>>32915472
That was the point of my post, to notify OP that he has no idea what he is talking about because the army doesn't use .223

>>32915443
OTM has a very small hole that preserves ballistic coefficient. Hollow area inside hole makes bullet butt heavy thus round is easily destabilized on teminal contact. Also very thin copper jacket.

>>32915493
Yep. Tis that badass. Kek

>>32915512
If 5.56 didnt kill then .223 wont either

>>32915538
No shit bud, read my post, 5.56 is a different round.
Comparing it to your AR, or using it as a critique, as OP was obviously doing is a pointless exercise.
Nearly as pointless at claiming a moose ran away after you hit it in the antler with .308, so 7.62 is a shit round.

>>32915516
thanks for the info, now is this destructive chemistry with all OTM bullets or specifically with the 69 grain? im going to guess the heavier the better the effect since its ass heavy, any info on Hollow point/ soft points tho?

>>32915473
There would no stomach be left then

>>32914333
Depends on placement. .223 is lethal, but simply shooting someone through the lungs or gut is not going to put them down even with a full size rifle round. A fatal shot to the torso does not guarantee immediate incapacitation.

>>32914347
b8

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>>32914443
>>32915370
>what are thoooooose
Presumably the SEALs were memeing about the stocks.

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>>32914781

>>32915447
So what if I am? A round is a round, and as a matter of fact, .223 is the round I shoot the least. It's mostly 6.5 SPC

>>32915656
You could probably aim for the head within 50 yards.
The MOA of a typical AR15 isn't going to allow accurate shots more than a few hundred meters.
If there's wind, forget about it.

>>32915656
>Medulla Oblongota
Do camel jockeys have enlarged medulla oblongotas?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfC4u5GCy3I

>>32914333
that's what happens when you use fmjs, unreliable terminal ballistics on people

>>32914781
Even fatal shots are not immediately incapacitating. Sometimes it takes a few seconds or minutes for a person to realize they're dead.

>>32914333

>shot in stomach, likely with cheapshit FMJ or AP

It's an ammo thing. In the military side, we always use M855 for ranges, and I've heard a few stories from my NCO's about failure to stop. In my civilian pursuits, I've got an AR and I'll bet money that I'll put anything short of elk down almost instantly with a Nosler Partition through the foreshoulder.

>>32915656
>AMAX
Military can't use. And with Mk-318/M855A1 guy would not be less dead.

>>32915284
>5.56 (.223) was never intended to be "lethal"
5.56 was designed to be more lethal than M80 ball under 300 yards.

>>32915739
TMK would exhibit identical terminal ballistics

>>32915579
My rifle won't shot as accurately with any thing over 70gn due to 1:9 twist. 77gn rips stuff up as good or better as long as muzzle velocity is over 2800fps.

With soft point, the idea is to retain mass while creating moderate expansion. You get pass through with single exit wound, so often, wasted energy.

Only time I used true hollow point to hunt was 45gn Winchester at 3400fps. Not very accurate for me. Guts hot a wild hog at 150yds. He run in two circles and dropped. Was still breathing when I got to him, but all his Guts and liver were spilled out on the ground. Nasty stuff. Supposedly vaporizes groundhogs.

>>32914781
Looks like Poklonskaya

>>32915756
Pretty sure TMK is not approved by JAG either.

The solution is that we should have everyone using rifles in .50BMG.

Would 5.45 have worked better ?

>>32914347
Let me fix this for you
>.223 is not designed to be a lethal round, it's made to wound and incapacitate so two more terrorists have to come and suicide bomb in place of their terrorist buddy who couldn't depress the switch
One bullet just took three terrorists out of the fight. Or at least two. Well, actually zero, they would have died anyway.

At least you postponed the attack!

>>32914333
in the real world you shoot until the enemy is on the ground and combat ineffective.
You don't want a terrorist to die quickly. It has to be long and it needs to hurt all the way through.

>>32916060
Soooo, flechett.