What was the best world war 2 rifle? And why was it the enfield?

>bolt action

>>32910901

>>32910901
Not OP, but I think we should limit discussion to bolt actions. Obviously the Garand was the best service rifle.

>>32910918
What with your shitty 500 yd range?

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Bongaboo pls. I love my NO4, but the M1 is the greatest fighting implement ever devised.

>>32910929
The fuck do you mean? How is it even comparable to the no.4

>>32910934
Both are rifles that shoot a thirty caliber bullet, and were standard issue during WW2. I will say though, that my NO4 is the smoothest cycling bolt action I've ever used.

>>32910925
>Anyone could hit 500 meters with iron sights.

That's when you are wrong kiddo.

Well to be fair none of your rifles mean Jack shit when I kill you from over a mile away with my enfield.

OP you are a dirty fuckin brit. Mosin-nagant is best fucka da you.

>>32910968
You're not helping your case.

Garand was objectively the better rifle.

>>32910978
Fuck off you filthy Russian

>>32910981

garand is a very unreliable design.

>>32910981
Prove it then, explain exactly how its better?

>>32911000
Higher rate of fire is really all it needs to be better. It's a military rifle, a higher volume of speedy bits of metal flying at your enemy is better than a lower volume of speedy bits of metal.

Any marginal advantages such as muh range that the Enfield may have over the Garand doesn't make it a significantly better rifle for the average infantryman.

>>32910995
Your mom is unreliable, I've only got to stick my willy in her twice these past few weeks.

>>32911000
Semi-auto
Has 500 yard range most firefights within 300
Fairly cheap to produce

>>32911014
>>32911018
Hit the nail on the head
the whole reason we even use intermediate rifles now is because most engagements happen sub-300m. Having a semi-automatic rifle when doorkicking a Nazi-occupied french village is going to do better than an enfield any day of the week

>>32910899
the garand was obviously the best so yes, lets debate who was second place

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>>32911014
>Higher rate of fire is really all it needs to be better.

>>32911100
Are you going to provide a counterargument or just quote me?

>>32911100
Haha.

Enfield was the 3rd best rifle of ww2. The M1917 was the 2nd best.

>>32910899
>not picking the Garand.
I'm a k-98 fanigger and even I know the Garand is the best standard infantry rifle of WWII.

>>32910925
>needing range over 500 yards during WWII
I wasn't aware we were talking about WWI.

>>32911107
On an infantry level your extra firepower that sacrifices range is borderline useless, it is only useful at a squad level when laying down supressive fire and even then Enfields could do the exact same thing and there could still be a dozen more riflemen because they are cheaper to make then a semi-auto battle rifle

>>32911108
>M-1917
>Wiki: The M1917 Enfield, the "American Enfield"
>Amerisharts literally copied a foreign design admitting the Springfield was inferior
>Amerisharts literally can't make a good bolt action rifle

TOP KEK

>>32911131
Are you implying that all engagements in WW2 occurred at ranges >500 yards? Also, I think you're confusing the US with Russia or Japan, we never had such a shortage of small arms that we sent soldiers to war without them or cut so many corners that marginally unsafe rifles were issued.

How much did an Enfield cost to produce?

>>32911150
Less then a Garand

>>32911153
But do you have a specific number?
I'm not trying to argue here, I'm legitimately curious and couldn't find much online.

>>32911146
>Are you implying that all engagements in WW2 occurred at ranges >500 yards?

B-BUT MUH ENGAGEMENT RANGE

Face it, the Garand was a needlessly complex and expensive rifle that could of been more economically substituted by Enfield Ripoffs with the same battlefield performance

>>32911161
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/20451-cost-of-ww2-weapons/

>"Interesting to see how expensive the M1 rifle really was compared to the K98 and the Enfield bolt action rifles.

>>32911176
And America had ample resources back home to produce enough expensive and complex rifles. If it was prohibitively expensive or complex it would have failed, but it didn't, so I must ask: what's your point?

>>32911176
But by 1944/1945 the cost of the Garand went all the way down to 30-ish dollars, which is pretty close to the Enfield in the link you sent.

>>32911195
> America had ample resources back home to produce enough expensive and complex rifles.

My point is that it could of used those ample resources to produce much more simpler bolt rifles which would of had the same effect in the war.

>>32911196
And as such the M1917 would of became an order of magnitude cheaper too, still more expensive.

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>>32910899
Best was the nugget, hands down.

>>32911213
Why make shitty bolt action rifles when you can make awesome Garands instead? You still aren't making any sense.

>>32911131
More like:
>be america ww1
>already making weapons for russia and britain
>realize making the superior mauser action is expensive
>have a bunch of enfields you shit out for britain already
>mod them to save dollars

"Copied"

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>>32911219
>Why make shitty bolt action rifles when you can make awesome Garands instead?
Pic

>>32911224
Is this a subtle version of the America won WW1 meme?

>>32911131
The m1917 enfield was a joint design by yhe americans and the english because both the springfield and enfield are slower and more expensive to manufacture, it uses the cock on close just like an SMLE, but uses the extractor and locking lugs of a mauser.

So yes a P14 and m1917 are both superior to lee enfields and mausers.

>>32911224
The M1917 is a Mauser you retard.

>>32911232
Does that reaction image mean you've conceded defeat? I'd hope so, your last argument for the Enfield being a better rifle was that it was cheaper and had less moving parts.

If you're right though, you need to call the Pentagon and tell them that they've fucked up immensely with the M16 and M4.

>>32911240
> both the springfield and enfield are slower and more expensive to manufacture

>So yes a P14 and m1917 are both superior to lee enfields and mausers.

Rubbish, just Rubbish, stop with these lies.

>>32911253
>Make stupid post with no basis other then x>y
>Get (You) you deserve
>Does that reaction image mean you've conceded defeat?

Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time

>>32911014
PIIIINGGGG

>>32911262
The case was made for the Garand being the better rifle a dozen or two posts ago, the argument was over by that point. You've just been grasping for any conceivable reason the Enfield outperforms the best rifle of WW2.

And no, I will not go away, I love getting cyber bullied

>>32911275
> I love getting cyber bullied

You're making me hard anon

>>32911275
Hahahaha what even is cyber bullying nigga just close the laptop or your eyes nigga hahahaha you get me

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>>32911279
I begin to stroke your op rod...

>>32910899
>8 rounds Semi-Automatic
or
>10 rounds Bolt Action, reloaded 5 at a time

>>32910925
It is actually 3450 yards.

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>>32911354

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You ignorant fools underestimate asian chink magic. The type 99 is the best.

>>32911428
Fuk off u litle chink shit

>>32911253
Pentagon already knows the atrocious fuck up which is the M4 and M16.

>>32911317
Don't forgot

>mad minute


>b-but MUH SEMI AUTO!!!

>>32910950
You haven't used many then.

>>32911018
>Fairly cheap to produce
>M1 Garand
What? No. It was the most complicated and expensive of the service rifles by far. The only reason America fielded it was because they didn't have their industry targeted and destroyed like everyone else. The fuck are you smoking?

>>32910899
if the smelly was so great, why did the bongs try to replace it with a mauser clone?

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>>32910899
Yeah, sorry OP, but the M1 Garand is the best rifle of WWII

>>32911317
>>32911640
You could fire 16 rounds and reload an M1 Garand twice before a tommy's "mad minute" was half over. Loading 5 rounds per clip only hinders the mad minute, loading all 8 at once is much better.
Also;
>'Mad minute' required special training
>Garands could do a better "mad minute" in less skilled hands

Aren't bolt actions much more reliable when exposed to dirt and sand?

>>32912690
yeah but you also have to go like this each time you shoot it
*ch-ch, ch-ch*

>>32911224
The Mauser is the least expensive action to manufacture

>>32912701
Well, that's an obvious disadvantage. I just wanted to bring this up because I think it wasn't mentioned yet and reliability is crucial for a military weapon.

What is a good price for a mkIII SMLE? Gun store has a "good overall condition" matching numbers for $595. I don't really care about the collectability and just want a shooter.

>>32912728
Mosins, carcanos, and arisakas are all cheaper to make.

>>32912728
Not really.

>>32910995

B8

>>32911310
I PUT ON MY ROBE AND WIZARD HAT

>>32913224
>mud test.jpg

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>>32911217
>>32911310
Nice funs gentleman. I plan on owning a Mosin and a Garand soon.

What about the K31?

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>>32913382
enfield will fail as well
same with p17 and the 03 and the m1 carbine, the thompson etc, they will all fail,

>>32913475
K98k did better

>>32913505
ahh fair enough, forgot that vid

>>32910978
>nagant
>good

Have you even held one?

>>32910899
If its so good, why did the british try to replace it before both the world wars?

>>32915071
This man right here has a great point.

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>>32910899
Fg42

>>32912782
that sounds worth it, quality ones are slightly rare

>>32915071
At no point in history have the British been satisfied with their issue weapons. They are always experimenting with something new and have rifle trials every 10 to 20 years.

>>32911176
>bolt action has the same battlefield performance as a semi-auto

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>ctrl-f
>No Kar98 in results
>Only a couple other mentions of the K98

>Best action for bolt rifles, smooth, reliable, and quick
>Best rifle quality control and production through the beginning of the war

Are you even serious?
Shitty britbong Enfield with awful QC and shit sighting system, and a rifle that isn't even a bolt gun that makes a tremendous ping every time you run out. You guys are just getting MORE retarded as time goes on.

>>32911640
Semi-auto lets the soldier keep their sight picture and body position much better than scrambling on the bolt between every round.

>>32912388
They actually tried to replace it as early as the turn of the century, had the Royal Arsenal's not pushed for an updated Long Lee you likely would have seen a Mauser based No.1 serving in World War I.
They even started to replace the No.1 Mk.3 with the Pattern 14 but that pesky war intervened and once it was over the United Kingdom was so fucked over financially that they dropped the whole P14 project. They had similar issues as the Russians/Soviets but different causes, tried to replace a long serving design but economics or a war got in the way. The Soviets did manage to get the SVT-40 into service in quite large numbers and honestly with a few more years of development it could've been pretty good, so they managed to do something the UK never managed.

>>32915131
qt af

>>32915283
>K98
>Lost the war

Good gun but apparently not good enough.

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>>32912728
MAS36 is probably cheaper

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Best WWII rifle? No contest - StG-44

>select fire
>30 round detachable magazine
>comparable to a modern assault rifle

>>32915306
Lindybeige pls leave

>>32915283
>Mauser
>Good sights
M1 shits a 98.

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>>32915346
Maybe you can talk shit after Germany has won a war, Wehraboo.

aimed shots > randomly spamming rounds at the enemy

Shoving a semi-auto in the hands of a barely-trained recruit is just asking for ammo wastage.

>>32915283
When Britain was losing their rifles had shit QC, when Germany was losing their rifles had shit QC, when Japan was losing their rifles had shit QC, when Russia was losing their rifles had shit QC. When all these countries were winning their rifles had good QC, with the possible exception of the fucking commies.

What's your point?
>muh ping will get you killed meme

>>32915431

Mosins were outdated either way, good QA or not, Russians wanted to modify them and remove some of their issues around 1912 or so but decided that it's not worth spending the money to do so. Then they wanted to outright replace them with SVT-40's but figured out that the troops like SMG's more than rifles anyway so they focused on PPSh's instead.

Ak47

>>32915400
To be fair the Mauser pattern rifles were the premier service rifle for a vast majority of the world during the first few decades of the 20th century. No one can deny the widespread adoption of those rifles in damn near every corner of the globe, hell the US got sued by Mauser for trying to skirt patents and the UK was going to drop their Enfield based rifles for a Mauser derivative if World War I hadn't exploded.

Germany may have lost two world wars but Mauser did well, still wish Paul Mauser hadn't died when he did and his last design saw more widespread use.

>>32910899
>ITT Bong-nigs are booty blasted over the Garand.

Sorry you needed the help of the US AGAIN, to get you out of a rut.

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>>32910950
The Garand cycles so smoothly you don't even have to touch the bolt handle. Its like magic. Auto-magic, one might say.

>>32910995
.....What the fuck are you even talking about, nigger? Unreliable how? In comparison to 70-year newer rifles? Maybe. Comparing rifles of the time period, the Garand was just fine.

>>32915071
Read about the L85. Or the Brown Bess. Or the Baker rifled musket. The Brits have always hated their service rifles.

>>32915283
>>32911269
You're objectively fucking retarded. The Ping myth has been conclusively debunked as a myth. Have any of you nogunz faggots ever had to fire a rifle in combat without hearing protection? Soon as the first round goes off, all you hear for the next day or two is the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE and I promise you, you're not going to hear a measly little ping through the gunfire and the tinnitus and the explosions.

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>>32910899
>Can't loose a war if you don't participate
>But you can still get those sweet nazi gold bars

>>32911176

>extremely fast britbong moving goalposts at incredible high speed

>>32915412
Yeah, that's why magazine cutoffs remained popular for so long.

>>32910899
M1 Garand.
Sure it was more expensive but it was a great force multiplier for a simple and relatively cheap upgrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJJeBXZeVZU

>>32915283
>and a rifle that isn't even a bolt gun that makes a tremendous ping every time you run out.

When will the "Ping get you killed" meme, die?

>>32915412
Doesn't matter when you have the US's industrial capacity(in the 40s)

>>32916003
I thought that was because hadn't yet invented the stripper clip.

>>32917206
Never. It's the last thing that will ever be remembered about the garand. Slowly over hundreds and thousands of years people will forget about that which is common to us today. "Ping gets you killed" is a meme that will last as long as memory of the garand.

>>32911428
It's retard strong and pretty smooth but there's really no reason for it given 7.7 Arisaka isn't exactly screaming out the barrel. It being chrome lined pushes it to the top 3 at least though

>>32911150

the lives of the men who it failed

>>32911232
America didn't win alone, and Russia did the heavy lifting against the Germans.

But the USA did a fuckload more than and was much more effective than the useless brits who's main achievement was not getting totally buttfucked at Dunkirk.

>>32915131
>>32915295
this
it had only one problem though
> fire rate


>>32915339
yeah this actually

its like cheat codes in a video game

everybody else has ww2 weapons and you've got an ak47

> wasnt actually an ak47, but it was just as effective

>>32911232
America's real contribution to the war was to make a bunch of shit, so it makes sense that the shit they made for themselves was the best.

>>32917774
It alsout has better sights than most and is simple and easy to maintain.

>>32911224
Both the P14 and M1917 are both Mauser-derived actions...

>>32918489
No it dosen't

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>>32915400
Forgets about the Franco-Prussian war which asserted German dominance.

>>32915921
Shut up horsefucker.

Swiss K31
I've never even seen this put to serious debate - the Enfield was good but the constant frankensteining of service rifles and rolling out of new designs left big gaps in quality for many riflemen.
Yeah you can argue that since the Swiss never really went to war the K31 doesn't count, but for the time period it's by far the most innovative design on a Bolt Action service rifle.

As far as what rifle performed the best, the Finnish Frankenmosins probably take the cake.

>>32920299
The Finnish only had to put up with the autistic red army.

>>32920299
>Helvetiboos actually believe this.
The K31 is so overrated it hurts.

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>>32915339

This poster is not a raging homosexual because he posted literally the correct choice.

MP-44 > Everything else

>>32920299

The K31 beats the Lee Enfield and Mauser 98 at the range.

The Enfield and Mauser beats the K31 on the battlefield.

This thread should be "What was the best WW2 Rifle that isn't the Stg-44, M1 Garand, or M1 Carbine?"

In that case..... yes, the Enfield wins because 10 > 5 when shooting people that shoot back

>>32920470
Considering the K31 never faced either on the Battlefield, nor really ever faced the same extended battlefield conditions (as >>32920312 pointed out) it's kind of hard to say. Again, in terms of design the K31 was the strongest contender as a boltgun.

>>32920356
>tripfag responds with namecalling and whining, makes no actual points
Back to the trash can with your opinions, please

>>32920599
>Shitty sights
>Poor ergos
>Lacks primary extraction
>Complicated bolt assembly
>Heavy
>Expensive to manufacture
Oh yeah, greatest bolt gun ever no question.

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>>32910899
enfield is definitely top of the line
as i understand it, the P17 murican enfield is a mauser derivative with good aperture sights and enfield ergonomics, so thats really appealing off the bat for someone who's used to mausers, but i don't think they cycle as fast as actual enfields.
i will say
id love a stock mauser but with a rear aperture and enfield ergonomics, that'd be my baby

>>32911131
>Americans can't into an inferior and outdated rifle design

Dunkirk was a mistake.

cmon guys quit acting like fucking faggots
k31s pretty dope
mauser is the obvious influential rich man of the bunch
enfields got dope ergos and for a normal bolt cycles really quick, even compared to a straight pull
only rifle that was 'on the scene' from the time i can think of that actually sucks aside from being barely functional is the mosin

>>32911217
When the time comes I'm going to shoot you in the back and feast on your corpse

>>32918066
>America didn't win alone, and Russia did the heavy lifting against the Germans.

Except we pretty much carried the majority of the Pacific theatre on our shoulders, which allowed Stalin to continuously zerg rush the nazis without fearing a pincer movement by the Japs.

>>32915942
>>32913456

Were talking about rifles made by countries who's last shot in anger wasnt fired before the invention of black powder.

The swiss stuff is all nice and super-duper accurate and stuff but just not battle-proven. It may be good for a draft army but can it be produced during war time? afaik the swiss already had a hard time during ww2 getting enough food, turning every single public park into fields.

>>32917646
yeah but only because of 1st person shooters (referring to latency)

>>32920894
>implying the swiss weren't selling food left and right on the black market

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>>32912730
weapon won't fail to cycle if it's not designed to cycle in the first place

>>32910899
>cock on close
Lock time is not the amount of time your mistress keeps you in a chastity belt, cucklord.

>>32911428
this. best in nearly every way. if they had stuck with 6.5 jap it would blow every other bolt action out of the water.

>>32911310
You fucking shit, you bent the dog leg! Be more gentle!

>>32918066
It's not even been 100 years since WW2 and people already have ideas this warped about what happened.

What's with all these buttblasted retards trying to shit on the M1917? It was the best Mauser ever made in terms of suitability for war.

>>32920835
not to mention supplied all of the allies, including practically everything the russians needed to actually fight and not be mercilessly slaughtered by germans with nothing to protect themselves but empty mosins and their flaccid dicks

>>32921395
this

its a mauser with enfield ergonomics and good sights
best of both worlds

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>>32912388
>if the smelly was so great why did the bongs try to replace it with a Sten SMG?
Fixed.

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really noone has said the B.A.R. yet?

>>32922176
>best

>>32915971
>mad minute goalpost moving

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>>32920599
Given that the K31 was designed specifically for use only in a particular environment - the Swiss countryside - and to be used by well-trained soldiers, you'd be right about it being pretty good. The real qualification for a great boltgun would be how well it did in the hands of, say, a Russian conscript somewhere in the Pripet Marsh. I have a K31 and several Nuggets, and have had the leisure to compare the different design philosophies behind the two types.

>>32911131
>On an infantry level your extra firepower that sacrifices range is borderline useless

This is why all modern militaries use bolt action rifles isn't it?

>>32920260
>he doesnt fuck horses

Holy shit I cant stand reddit.

>>32920835
The Japanese were too busy fighting China and their defeats against the soviets in the late 30s pretty much put them off to any further actions there.

>>32910968
Your mile-away enfield won't mean shit when they get you with Arty from 8 miles away

>>32921333
Except 7.7 is superior to 6.5 in almost every way.

>>32910899
Because the answer is undoubtably either M1, my answer will be for my favorite ww2 rifle.
That would be the jap type 2A experimental bullpup.
Because A S C E T I C S.

>>32913259
I thought this thread had died long ago, thank you for delivering, bloodninja.

>>32917997
Severely underrated

I don't really know much about engineering, so I don't know much about manufacturing processes.
What made SMLEs and Mosins easier to produce than Mauser action rifles ?

>>32915412
>aimed shots > randomly spamming rounds at the enemy

>Shoving a semi-auto in the hands of a barely-trained recruit is just asking for ammo wastage.

You say this -- and you'd think it would be the case. But you're wrong. Even well trained soldiers (especially in the heat of combat) struggle to maintain accurate shots. This was noted in the 1952 SALVO report.

It's one of the key reasons why militaries today emphasize more on volume of fire over precision based firing.

This is a small summary of the report:
>"A 1952 SALVO study (the term SALVO appears to refer to a salvo of bullets and not an
acronym) published findings similar to Marshall’s: battlefield stress causes soldiers to
improperly aim their weapon, resulting in an excessive number of rounds needed to kill
an enemy soldier (Lenaerts 1988, 16-17). Interestingly, Project SALVO accepted the fact
that the average solider is an inefficient firer and sought technical solutions to the
problem--principally a smaller bullet leading to the M16’s 5.56-millimeter caliber
(Lenaerts 1988, 16). Heading up the infantry division of the Operations Research Office,
Norman Hitchman published “Operational requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon”
which recommended volume over accuracy; it claimed that if an infantrymen shot a four
round spread of bullets twenty inches in width, it would be twice as effective (in terms of
hit probability) against a target compared to a single shot from the M1 rifle (“Special
Purpose Individual Weapons: A Brief History of Flechette and the SPIW Project”). The
result of the SALVO study was an overall reservation against “developing and fielding a
highly accurate rifles--which the average infantryman, under combat stress, is nowhere in a position to properly use”

>>32927276
Nothing, neither is particularly easier to manufacture than a Mauser.

>>32922176
When you forget the ww2 Bar is a flaming piece of shit.

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>>32910929

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>>32910899
Bonjour, mon ami.

>>32929434
Brand new, only dropped once.

>>32929434
Shhhh, they don't want to hear the truth.

>>32927276
>What made SMLEs and Mosins easier to produce than Mauser action rifles ?
Probably nothing. The SMLE was costly to produce, the No4 was much simplified and less expensive. And also greatly improved. I don't know what the cost of a Nugget was, but I expect all three would be relatively close to eachother.