.22 lethality

>>32909206
there are no highcapacity 22lr pistols with mags that aren't fuck huge.
22lr really only works well as a singlestack.

Virgina Tech guy used a .22

.22lr kills anything you need to kill tomorrow.

You're going down too in the meanwhile.

>>32909226
Keltec makes one

>>32909206
>Have any of you heard the rumor of .22 bouncing around inside a person.
Yeah, and it's horseshit.

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>>32909387
thats 22mag an entirely different cartridge
22lr just doesnt work well as a doublestack cause of the rims and length. you end up with huge fuckers like this that only hold 25.

>>32909385
What in the fuck

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Tbh i use a 1911 22 as a cc peice because comfy, cheap, and 15 rounds of precise spray and pray at what will most likely be a dog.

Yes bullet's move in people weirdly. From rifle's they can travel from the kidneys to the lung some fudds will say. Not important though. Being able to shoot someone is most important. Shooting then abunch is next. Shooting them a bunch in the pelvis is best.

So. Shoot them in the dick till they are down, and magdump the rest in the face. 15 rounds of 22. To the dick will crumple anybody. Anyone here worth their pocket sand will tell you keeping on target and retreating are key. I do that best with a 22. You might be different.

It may deflect off bone, but it doesn't just bounce around in the body like a superball.
22 LR kill so many people because it is so common and (probably) because people underestimate how injured they are.
College professor was retired LEO and told us about a 22 LR death.

>Homeowner calls 911 to report intruder.
>Arrive and intruder has fled, but man claims to have shot him.
> Find intruder hiding in nearby field
>Tiny hole in abdomen with almost no visible bleeding.
> Arrest man and drive him to ER
>He doesn't seem to be really hurt.
>Some time later cop sees medical staff quickly going to/from room.
>Man dies from internal bleeding.

>>32909910
>carries .22lr
>boasts about 15rd capacity

dude lol

>>32909206
Well they say birdshot/gameshot wont do anything either, but i'd like to see an assaulting man keep going after taking a full body blunt shot of 12ga gameshot at <10m.

.22lr exceeds FBI's minimum penetration requirements and has better shoot-ability and recoil than 9mm. .22lr is also known to fragment which works like a force multiplier and extremely deadly, just look at when 5.56 fragments.

.22lr can be redirected by bones, but only by a small handful of degrees. It is not uncommon to hear of a gsw where the bullet deflected off of a rib causing it to veer off into the CNS or some such, but that's true of just about all small cartridges. Just look at any ballistic gel tests with a bone medium stuck in it.

But, no, they don't pinball around in there. That's retarded.

>>32909206

that walther is made of pot metal, do internet search for reviews, it is crap

get a ruger sr22, never jams

>>32913020

This is true. My hammer broke in two.

TBF I did shoot a metric shit ton out of it.

Had more fun with that thing than with rifles or other larger caliber pistols.

I miss her.

>>32912181
This. 22lr fragments like crazy sometimes

>>32913020
>ruger sr22, never jams
Never jams, my ass.

This is the pickiest of my handguns, it's almost guaranteed to jam every mag.

The only way to make it jam less often I found so far is to shoot CCI Mini Mags, and keep it very wet with thin oil.

But SR22 as a carry? Fuck no, a full size 9mm is about as big as SR22 is.

>>32912049
People think birdshot penetrates like a slug at close range but it doesn't. They're discreet (relatively) tiny particles. Obviously a headshot close range with birdshot would be devastating but God forbid you're shooting center of mass with someone wearing a jacket like carhardt or something.

>>32912181
Everyone cites FBI standards but why not just look at what they actually carry and trust to save their lives? Shouldn't that be the best indicator? I love plinking with 22 but absolutely wouldn't carry it

>>32913402
i can put 3 22lr slugs in the smae place in the time I need to shoot one 9mm from my converted G17. 22lr will kill anything dead. you can easily euthanize a cow by shooting it in the forehead with it and it will go through a human skull front and back. the only reason I don't carry it is reliability of the ammo and conversion slide. 1 malf in 20 rds is too much.

>>32913378
https://youtu.be/yzNv-69KyZ4

Buckshot is pretty lethal close up desu

>>32913249
>This is the pickiest of my handguns, it's almost guaranteed to jam every mag

wow

i put about 1500rds thu mine before selling

all kinds of ammo, but it was all copper coated

zero jams

>>32913378
I work in an ER and have had the chance to see the x-ray of birdshot inside of a dude. Pretty sure it ALL went through his jacket. Also, there was one that got stuck on the tip of his penis. Weird.

>>32913559
>one that got stuck on the tip of his penis

insult to injury

>>32913020
I never clean mine and shoot everything with it... i do get 1 or two failure to feed every 50 rounds or so...

>>32913481
I said birdshot senpai

>>32909910
Please be bait. I don't want to believe there are humans this dumb.

>>32913493
>copper coated
lead bullets will KILL SR-22. I made a mistake of buying a 500rd box of Remington Thunderbolt ammo when I didn't know well what I was doing - that fucker fouled up the barrel so badly, it started keyholing before I realized what was happening, and, I shit you not, it took me 4000+ brush strokes to clean the shit out.

>>32913432
Yeah I mean I'm pretty much on the same page. I have a Ruger Mark II with a bull barrel that I would feel perfectly comfortable putting someone down with, 22 just doesn't have the feeding reliability for a self defense weapon. Plus I have the same or higher capacity with 9mm

>>32913559
Ha we can talk stopping power all day but the definition of stopping power should be " amount of birdshot up the urethra".

>>32913493
Mine only jammed if you limp wristed it, but that problem stopped after a couple hindered rounds

>>32913952
>.22
>limp wristed

Hmm.

>>32909206
>Have any of you heard the rumor of .22 bouncing around inside a person. Opinions?
It's bullshit.

> Is a high capacity .22 pistol more beneficial than a low capacity pistol for CC?
No, because while .22 is lethal and I surely wouldn't want to get hit by it, it's not the best when it comes to incapacitation and it's the incapacitation that matters in the self defense situations, not lethality per se (that said, killing someone instantly is a viable way of incapacitation, but .22 is not ideal for that)

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>>32914033
My thoughts exactly.

>>32913769
>thunderturds

That ammo has been known to specifically have problems with being too soft and leaving a tremendous amount of lead fouling in the barrel. Something like Federal Automatch LRNs would not have the same problem.

>>32914454
Experience is something you need right AFTER you need it.

Lesson learned, though. Plus, I now know how a well cleaned barrel looks like - which, however, gives me acute OCD attacks every time when I look at my 9mm barrels

OP here, totally went out and bought a threaded P22, probs gonna buy a suppresor. while at the store I got to fingerfuck a M&P9 compact. What do you guys think of that?

TLDR: normal .22 LR pistol can penetrate 9 pieces of drywal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSVn7ozXTQ

>>32915998
Penetrating 9 pieces of drywal does not equal reliable and quick incapacitation.

Why do you people not understand that the goal in self defense is not to kill, but to incapacitate?

Yes, incapacitation CAN be achieved with killing, but ONLY if you can kill the target QUICKLY. A .22 to anything other than the head will not achieve that. The attacker might die in hospital a few hours later but it won't make you any less dead when he beats the shit out of you while he still has enough blood and is pumped on adrenaline.

>>32916048
well whats the best way to incapacitate? a .22 mag dumped into someone should do something

>>32916133
>well whats the best way to incapacitate?
Killing quickly. Pistol cartridges are kinda bad at that though, but you can at least choose ones that suck the least.

People argue what's the best pistol caliber all the time, but generally all modern HP centerfire cartridges perform more or less the same.

Thing is .22 is not one of them, it's much, much weaker and smaller with no appreciable advantages to make up for it.

Is it useless? Not at all, I would take it over a melee weapon any day. Is it optimal compared to other firearm alternatives? I don't think so.

>>32909385
You having a stroke, grandpa?

>>32916133
>should do something

Kill them about 15 minutes after they're done hefting your body into a dumpster.

It beats yelling loudly and shaking a stick, but anything else would be better.

>>32909910
>be me
>cc 1911
>Chambered for .22
>getting mugged
>pull out gun, aim and shoot
>mugger takes one in the gut
>I AM VICTORIOUS!
>mugger beats my head in with a pipe
>at least I had 15 rounds

>>32909206
I've heard about 22 ricocheting around in the skull but I've got no proof other than that

>>32909206
>bouncing around inside a person

I'm pretty sure that's a .45 meme

I've heard the rumor of .22 going straight through people to the point it doesn't hurt them as much as it should unless you wound fatally.

.22 is good for self defense, because of capacity and velocity, if you're dueling or attacking an active shooter it may not be as effective as a larger caliber due to its small size.

Its wound vector is insubstantial compared to most pistol cartridges, hollow points would be recommended, or using .22WMR instead of .22lr.

Or you could use another cartridge.

>>32916241
>no Mozambique

Nobody stops at one round unless they are a pleb

>>32916255
i've heard people saying this about "hollow point bullets" from CSI (not sure which one) and i'm pretty sure in the silverballers (1911s) description on one of the older Hitman (maybe 2 or contracts) games it says the same thing about .45acp

>>32916133
A 9mm mag dumped into them will work better. Unless you don't practice enough to be able to hit a target with 9mm. In which case you better be a faggot with tiny wrists. In which case a .380 will succeed too and much better than a .22.

>>32909206
A 15 round ,22lr mag dump to center of mass at 25 yards has about the same stopping potential as one round of #1 buckshot at same distance center of mass.

>>32916517
The thing is the former will take a lot more time, provided you caneven hit all the 15 shots, which is not likely.

>>32909387
Its a .22 wmr as the other guy said. Very different round.

>>32916545
Totally agree. Twas kinda my point.

>>32916302
>.22 is good for self defense, because of capacity
> capacity
> .22

>>> capacity


>>>> .22

bruh

>>32909371
Yeah, but he also used a 9mm along with it.

OP, a .22 is better than nothing, but you'd be better off with a 9mm, or even a .380.

>>32909371
>comparing a mass shooting to a self-defense situation
Damn, guess I shouldstart CCing a fucking bomb.

>>32909206
my sister killed herself with a .22
They're plenty lethal.
Would it be smart to carry one for self defense?
Not if you can't guarantee a headshot every single time you pull the trigger.

>>32916241
>cant put 15 22lr rounds in a human sized target at mugging range
Why carry a gun? sounds like you are more likely to have it taken and used against you then successfully defend yourself with it

worst case scenario its pretty much a slightly delayed 12 guage buckshot blast, best case scenario you hit every single organ at least once, including brain.

>>32916048
The goal in self defense is absolutely to fucking kill unless you love paying lawyer fees

>>32909385
>bear

>>32921329
>paying lawyer fees is worse than going to jail
yikes

>>32909206
the bouncing .22 is an old one, I think it arises because the bullet is small in diamiter and doesn't have enough energy to pass through bone
thus anyone killed with it, is likely to have it deflect off a rib going in

but a .22 is a poor choice of handgun ammunition, as a rule they don't feed reliably enough; FF malfunctions are often in the hundred, not ten thousand
and the ammunition I believe was designed for long barrels, and suffers in a handgun the same way the 5.7 does

it doesn't deform meaningfully on impact, and won't cause a great enough wound cavitation for soft tissue
you really have to expect your target to be seriously wounded at best, shots to the heart will kiss someone dead, but the ribcage proves an issue for .22
a shot to the head will stun anyone, but there is a decent chance it will deflect, or not cause enough damage to kill someone if it hits a thicker part of the skull

many .22s are also very poorly designed, being scaled down from 9mm, .45, even 50.AE
the weight and ergos are often mismatched to the caliber

>>32918424
did he died

>>32918513
My condolences.

>>32921587
because dead men tell no tales, and dead men cannot sue

>>32909206
>Have any of you heard the rumor of .22 bouncing around inside a person
Yeah, .22LR has been observed to deflect off ribs, the pelvis, and even the skull, the typical fuddlore is that if you shoot someone in the eye with a .22LR pistol, the bullet will deflect around inside the skull cavity and scramble the brain like eggs, now, this has been seen a few times, but this isn't an effect you should ever try to rely on, it's really not a reliable stopper, and neither is it a good idea to rely on the notion of deflecting anywhere else in the body, when a moving projectile deflects off a surface, it loses velocity, this isn't in your favor.

People have absolutely been killed with .22LR, but often it's from rifle barrels, and/or the result of blood loss, infection, or spinal damage causing paralysis, etc, it's seldom a fast death.

While .22LR is a bit puny out of a pistol barrel, out of a rifle barrel, it can surprise you, landing somewhere between a .32ACP and .380ACP pistol in terms of penetration, so if you needed to defend yourself and all you had was a Ruger 10/22, you could reasonably count on a magdump saving your life, even if it's less than ideal (being not quite so reliable as you'd want for this purpose)

>>32916214
>>32909621
What he's saying is that a .22LR gunshot wound can often be fatal, but not always immediately, and that since you've possibly failed to stop your attacker, you might die first.

>>32909910
>Shoot them in the dick till they are down, and magdump the rest in the face
how_to_go_to_prison_for_second_degree_murder.jpg

>>32911959
>It may deflect off bone, but it doesn't just bounce around in the body like a superball.
This this this. Every surface a projectile bounces off takes away speed, and .22LR isn't exactly a .270 Winchester, this is a light and soft projectile with modest speed, not only will it slow down significantly from bouncing, but it also has to travel through flesh and organs, if the .22 bullet bounces inside your target, it's probably doing you a disservice.

>>32912041
Rock Island I think was making a 1911 derivative in .22LR (blowback, of course), and a variant of it in .22WMR (utilizing a delayed blowback, because rimfire magnums don't really fly in normal blowback). I don't know what happened to the Magnum one, but the pistol had a 15rd capacity, double-stack.

I'm not sure that's a great idea for a carry piece, I certainly wouldn't carry it for any kind of defensive purposes, at most it seems like it'd be a handy gun for trapping, but you can say that about literally any remotely acceptable .22 caliber pistol ever made.

For that matter, I'm dubious about the double-stacked magazines for .22 caliber rimfire cartridges, the crimp isn't especially strong on them, and I've heard of cartridges coming apart in the KelTec PMR30's magazine because of the strong spring.

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>>32912049
Birdshot can seriously ruin your shit at really close ranges.

>>32913020
>ruger sr22, never jams
Bullshit, I'm a big Ruger whore but fact of the matter is that .22LR is inherently less reliable, especially in automatics.

>>32913432
If you want to carry a .22LR-ish gun that's actually reliable, I'd suggest an FN Five Seven, it's effectively a +P .22 Magnum load with proper jacketing, centerfire ignition, and reliable double-stack magazines (20rds flush, and 30rd magazines are pretty compact too).

It would never be my first choice, but if you really like the idea of .22LR for carry, the Five Seven would be about the best and most logical choice, ammo has gone down in price some in recent years.

Not OP.
Would a .22 handgun be better than nothing until I can buy a true defensive handgun?

>>32909206
It's great against anything not behind cover or unarmored.

>>32916578
*tips fedora

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>>32926207
Beats a rock, and 99 times out of 100, Defensive Gun Use doesn't even necessitate firing a single shot.

But really, you can get like an Armscor .38 revolver for about $200, and a Hi-Point (.380/9mm/.40/.45) for like $150