Nuclear Forensics Question

Rockets? Yes. Warheads? Probably

>>32906787
Not directly, but if a really shitty low-yield fission bomb ended up in the hands of terrorists, it would be safe to assume it was the Norks, simply by process of elimination.

China and Russia would have better quality bombs. Britain and France wouldn't give bombs to the baddies. India and Pakistan would rush to let us inspect their arsenals to prove that none were missing. Which leaves North Korea and Israel. And while Israel might be full of treasonous bastards, they wouldn't trust Muslims with the bomb.

>>32906826

Considering the rocket and the warhead would be vaporized in the ensuing explosion there wouldn't be much if anything left to identify it as originating from North Korea. You might and I stress might be able to find the first stage if it was launched. But if it was ground delivered that would be a different situation.

The chemical composition of the diffused nuclear material can be traced back to its source based on geology.

>>32907067

We'd need to know what exactly what a North Korean nuclear detonation would look like wouldn't we?

>>32907278
Not necessarily. The chemical composition of the products of the explosion can be used to tell where the original fissile material came from. From there, you can find the creator of the weapon, as people aren't exactly handing out enrichable uranium to everyone.

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>>32906787
>2012+5
>norks doing anything
'lil kim pls

>>32907278
No, nuclear matierial used in bombs is very pure, but its still going to have minute impurities.

Trace minerals and different isotope ratios. These are like a fingerprint that can be used to trace the orgin back to specific regions, or even specific mines.

A nuclear blast only uses about 1/3rd of the matierial, the rest gets vaporized and becomes part of the fallout. And thats a very high efficiency nuke, low yield atomic weapons might use 10 to 15 percent of the nuclear matierial as reactive mass, the rest dusts the countryside.

In effect, nukes leave radiological fingerprints.

>>32907278
>>32907278
>what exactly what a North Korean nuclear detonation would look

photoshop

>>32907453

I'd have to wonder if it would be anything like the movies where the tech pulls out a chart and goes down a list? If it was of foreign origin I imagine we would need to ask each nuclear weapons possessing state to submit a sample.

>>32908424
>I imagine we would need to ask each nuclear weapons possessing state to submit a sample.
what do you think the armies of spooks the US employs do? If they've been doing their jobs, we'd have fallout samples for every country that's tested a weapon, mostly via high altitude sample collection downwind of the site.
That dust blows far.

>>32907034
we would detect the launch

>>32908500
This

Plus nuclear matierial is only mined in so many places, they are required to give samples from each sale to UN regulatory comittees, and have extremely strict records keeping requirements.

Like, not adhering to them means troops show up and sieze your mine levels of strict.

North korean gets thier uranium from their own mines, and I garuntee you our spooks have managed to secure a sample at some point.

Probably from atmospheric samples, but I wouldnt put some good old fashioned espionage out of the question.

Probably bribe a worker or guard to cross the border with a rock in his pocket for a few hundred grand and a US green-card.

>random nuke strikes America
>could only come from two possible sources, NK and Iran
>can't determine which one
>decide to hell with it and just invade them both

problem solved

>>32909890
>Invading North Korea
Topkek implying China would allow that.

>>32910199
China has made agreements with the US that if the norkies go hot they will assist with securing nuke sites.

The US doesnt really have much to do directly with the norks, when we want shit we go to china to have them jerk the leash.

China blusters a lot, but they know that without the US theyd have the mother of all economic collapses.

When north korea gets too stupid with the US kim jong un gets called to china for a spanking.

>>32906787
Analytical chemist reporting in.

We can determine geographic origin of metals by determining the isotopic ratios of certain elements using various high-resolution mass spectrometry techniques.

Once that radioactive metal goes through an enrichment process, the ratios of the isotopes present in that metal are necessarily changed. As a result we can no longer make that determination without substantial information about the process used to enrich the material.

So raw ore or refined radioactive material? Definitely. Enriched fissionable material? Probably not.

>>32910718
I forgot to add:
You would be more likely to identify the origin of the nuclear weapon by using a similar technique on the inert portion of the weapon which still have their native isotopic ratios intact.

I'd look at the lead components such as shielding or solder connections. Lead has four stable isotopes, the combination of which can be used to trace its origin with a reasonable degree of certainty. It's also fairly cheap and common, and therefore likely to have been mined close to the place of manufacture.

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>>32907067
Not only the source of the Uranium and Plutonium would be identifiable from what type of reactor it was cooked in. When the IAEA was monitoring the North Koreans and Iranian reactors(test ones also). They know what the output would likely be and what it would look like purified for bomb use.
The amount of effort and energy, and dollars to super purify the bomb material to obfuscate it's source would be ridiculous.
The meme that commercial reactor fuel is non proliferable was busted a long time ago.
Back in 1960 or so, some researchers were asked to make a quick bomb from spent fuel.

Normally there is too much Pu-241 isotope causing pre-detonation and possibly a fizzle. But they came up with a simple design to avoid that using public information and simple college texts. They took the "improvised device" to Nevada and tested it under ground.
It was using fuel from a British reactor called Magnox.

What would a Nork or Iranian bomb look like? Back in the 1950s they took careful measurements and a device called a bhangmeter that would tell you if it was a fission or fission fusion device.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhangmeter
There are several satellites in orbit that can detect the flash and signature double flash or a nuke detonating. Since 1980, the GPS satellites have them also.
Rumor has it the South Africans or Israelies detonated one in the Indian Ocean and was detected. The Vela incident.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_Incident

Every time a rocket is tested, you can surely bet that the US is watching the telemetry, color temp of the exhaust, and derive some unique data for each rocket. They can probably tell the difference between variants of SCUD missiles ,and who made them with modifications.

>>32909890
>only invading a country that just nuked you
How's retirement going, Barack?