Are MRAPs really effective?

>>32881069
Yes. The V-hull and uparmoring for a patrol vehicle is now a baseline for a modern combat vehicle. Even lighter offroading vehicles like the MATV-SF and JLTV have fuckloads more armor and interior space than humvees.

>Not effective against 'x'
They aren't invincible. No vehicle is invincible. But they GREATLY improve survivability and force the enemy into using heavier or more complex methods which are more time consuming to build and place.

>>32881069

They stop people losing their lives.

I doubt fuel economy is really on the list of things to worry about for most militaries.
The people we were fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq didn't have EFPs. When fighting a modern army they might not be as useful but still they offer more protection than a Hummer or a snatch landrover.

>>32881069

>Not very effective against Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP)

Still very effective against the rest of the stuff.

It's like saying aircraft may not be very good because SAM systems exist.

>>32881069

Gavins are better.

http://www.combatreform.org/armoredhmmwvsstrykersfail.htm

>>32881096
>The people we were fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq didn't have EFPs

They did, they totally did. People starting freaking out in Iraq and that's when "EFP" become a commonly known thing to the public. I remember around maybe 2005-2006 when the major TV news talked about EFPs often as some kind of super special terrorist superweapon.

We stopped talking about them in later years and in my writeups in Afghanistan, using the words "EFP"/"explosively formed penetrator" in AAR reports were expressly banned because of how much ignorant people (both inside and outside) the military lose their god damn minds over it.

That said, EFPs will often go through vehicle armor, but they force insurgents to use more machining and be much more precise with setting their IEDs, which means more fucked up EFPs which don't work as intended.

>Also, are they really a need for any army?

>IED is one of the most common, effective weapons in modern warfare

Are you stupid?

No, all the armies in the world use them if they can because they're stupid and you're obviously smarter

>>32881101

Sparky... KYS.

>>32881161
I said that because in my country, we 8as far as we know) don't have an Conflict Hypothesis with any of our neighbors.

We will always fight a defensive war against some superpower that has the money and resources to come here and invade us.

MRAPs are, as I see it, an offensive tool.

>>32881213
Because it's so much better to have soft skin trucks that get chewed the fuck up by an opposing military's .50 cals. They won't even have to pack any AT weapons to wreck your mechanized infantry.

You're stupid. The reason "your" military doesn't have MRAPs is because poor, not because the alternatives are better for "defense".

>>32881135
Generally they had to smuggle them in from sponsor nations. The explosives needed were too sophisticated for the post-surge homemade stuff.

>>32881069
Only if brass doesn't want to use tracked vehicles because they look scary, and need to constantly deal with mines.

>>32881243
Yeah, no. MRAPs are police action equipment for patrolling in a COIN environment, not for force on force conflicts.

>>32881069
MRAP is just a fancy name for APC.

>>32881422
I held EFP penetrator plates in my hands in like, 2011. They still exist. As to the quality of explosives, yes, good EFPs meant using good stuff, but it's not like they didn't have that. Again, pointing to my own experience, we hand cache turn-ins with large amounts of military grade moldable explosives.

This is all a sideshow from what should be your main point- which is that while EFPs go through armored vehicles, it is much more work to both build and place an EFP than a bulk HE IED. Any kind of armor that makes the enemy work harder is a success.

And MRAPs are out of the box resistent to small arms, which soft skin humvees aren't- and armored humvees are small arms resistant, but the armor destroys the engine.

Plus MRAP variations are designed to integrated modern equipment a lot fucking better than a humvee, which gets cramped quickly.

>>32881438
You really think humvees or similar utility type vehicles are coming back? The JLTV is the "humvee replacement" and it's an MRAP, soooo.....

>>32881470
No.

>>32881437
>brass doesn't want to use tracked vehicles because they look scary

No.

>>32881514
It's a smaller, lighter, faster vehicle based on the MRAP that will replace the uparmor HMMWVs, it's not really the same as the squad carriers that MRAPs were.

>>32881619
>MRAP
The term has over the past decade encompassed dozens of vehicles and variations, it's just one specific vehicle. If it's got armor out of the box, a v-hull, and big ass wheels it's pretty much an MRAP these days.

>it's not really the same as the squad carriers that MRAPs were.

It's roughly the same size as a Maxx-Pro, which is considered an MRAP and has been in use for years. Nobody said that "squad carrier MRAPs" were the standard.

MATVs and Maxx-Pros are what would be used today in force on force if the US jumped into a major fight.

>>32881069
*MRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP*

>>32881069

They have a great protection to weight ratio; probably the best you're going to get out of something with four wheels. Certainly better than moving around in an unarmored Hummer.

File: IMG_0339.jpg (1MB, 2816x2112px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2816x2112px

>>32881069
fuck yes cunt

>>32881091
This. 07 we were using up armored humvees and if you got hit you knew you'd be disfigured or die. The mraps are pressurized, seats are suspended, and the frame was built for the extra armor. When we got the newer humvees that were built in factory with armor rather than the old stuff that was cobbled together you could hear the frame groaning and screeching under the weight, especially off road.

Mraps are worth the money.

>>32881096
I was explosive detection k9. EFP's were a huge thing, I don't know where you heard that. My buddy was blown in half up in the turret by an efp that came through the front door at an angle. He survived but has no use of his right side arm/leg and his body is still pushing out shrapnel.

This was in the old humvees up armored with the kits down range and not the thicker armored ones that came from the factory with the armor already in place.

>>32881422
K9 guy again.

Yeah that's not true at all. All they needed was a curved shaped disc and explosives with a tube. There were tons of efp's in 07-08 on my first deployment.

>>32886003
Probably talking about the 1151 Humvees, instead of the FRAG-5 bolt on upgrade kits.

And an EFP would go through an MRAP too, just the nature of the beast. But MRAPs will stop a lot of other stuff that would fuck up a humvee.

OP's question is basically like asking why soldiers wear body armor if a .50 cal bullet will still go right through it. Nobody is going to deny that the .50 will go through it, but the question ignores a lot of other, far more common threats.

>>32881069
Better than a HUMVEE but not as good as a tank.

What's your point?

>>32885971
We used up armored humvees for a while because they had AC and needed less maintenance than the M1s and Brads.

Until a bunch of people got killed. Then we never took them off base.

*MRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP*

>>32881161
>IED is one of the most common, effective weapons in modern warfare
>IEDs fuck MRAP's shit up
rely maeks u tink

>>32881422
>The explosives needed were too sophisticated
>empty out some artillery propellant, RDX or what have you
>jam in in a thick metal pipe
>copper disc on the end
>armour is now fucked

Acquiring and shaping the copper disc to the right form is by far the hardest part, not the propellant.

>>32881069
I spent 15 months crammed inside an 1151 HMV, then 9 months in the back of an MRAP. The MRAP is alot cozier for dismounts, but it's hard to learn your sector and situational awareness can be shit. It's also hard for the gunner to effectively engage targets if they closed the distance and get right up on your MRAP. They're slow, loud as fuck, and harder to maintain, but you do feel more secure in them. With HMVEES you can slip up on your targets sometimes in street Fighting without them even noticing (seen it happen a few times). They both have their perks and disadvantages IMO

>>32881101
Dissolve yourself.

>>32881101
>combatreform

>>32886062
Great analogy.

Mraps have a lot more room for my dog too. In the hummer he'd be under the gunners legs, mrap he can chill in the little aisle. We didn't have crows back then in the humvees.

Not related but matv is most comfy and feels safe cause youre so high up. Only downside was quick dismounts in was afraid my dog would fuck himself up jumping down. Mraps had the stairs and humvees are no different than our home station patrol vehicles.

Random story. My buddy was on his first otw deployment with the army(we're usaf bomb dog handlers) he locked his retractable and we d ring the retractable to our carrier to keep our hands free. They open the door and he gives his dog the free command to go ahead and get out. The dog books it and because the leash was locked pulls his handler down the back of the mrap and my boy ended up breaking his arm on his first mission.

Little known fact, the USAF runs the military working dog program for the entire DOD.because of this all k9 is interchangeable regardless of service. We usually roll with the army and the navy with the marines but most the time The k9 unit supporting the infantry isn't even in that service.

>>32886003
This. My your in Baghdad in '07 we were in 1151s and EFPs were THE serious threat, mostly from JAM and Iranian funded militias. They had better resources than AQI back then. It's really just a luck game with EFPS

>>32886272
>>32886206
Don't know how much experience either of you have with Husky trucks, but those got integrated into convoys, which was something that really reduced the effectiveness of IEDs, especially ones that weren't command detonated.

Have a Husky with one of those PIR fooling Rhino boxes on the front of it, and boy you got a stew goin'.

>>32886311
>Huskies
I wanna say that was more of a Route Clearance vehicle. We did have Rhinos on the HMVEES, at least our lead. They can angle EFPs tho so it adapts to the rhino. Like a never ending chess game. I liked the Humvees but you just never know how you're gonna come out if you get hit. My buddy took a direct RPG hit to the turret, was RTD a few days later. We had a SL take a direct hit to his door, and part of the RPG penetrated and went thru his body, killing him

>>32886358
>They can angle EFPs tho so it adapts to the rhino.

They can, but it adds to the complexity of setting it up.

As for RPGs and the like, those are one more of those things where they can go through pretty much anything you can armor a truck with. When you're up against 300mm+ RHA penetration, shit just sucks. The RPG cages kinda sorta work at least to stop them, but those fuckers are so wide we didn't use them much in Afghanistan for fear of literally falling off mountain roads.

When it comes to armoring up, I seen a guy take a DIRECT hit from a recoilless rifle round that came through the sandbagged roof of the TOC. Sometimes shit happens and you have to think about more variables than just armor.

>>32886272
Lol "jam," Monica. I was in southern Iraq 07-08 and dealt with those al Mahdi army fuck bags, AQUIZ, and the takfiri extremists outside of basrah running missions with the brits and toward the port of um qasr when running to navstar before they closed it.

Not everyday I see someone that knows these acronyms. I was staged out of bucca working the prison and pulling convoy security for prisoner transports, "con air," (had nothing to do with flying).

Made my night and I dont even know why. Hope you're doing good brother I miss being there at times and hate civilian life but remember all the bullshit while active.

I don't care what those rangers tell you, remember, K9 actually leads the way. Lol.

>>32886414
The rhinos worked for a while and angled efp's aren't that hard to set up. Like dude said it was a never ending chess game.

We used war locks and chameleons to jam command det signals, they start using pressure plates. Any set up we defeated they'd adapt and have something else ready in a bit of time.

When in Iraq it was a bit easier for us (k9 teams) to clear routes or search for caches because most of the munitions were typical military explosives. In Afghan they use home made explosives (HME) more often than not. HME is made from some of the craziest shit and hard for us to do training on home station because it's so unstable. For deployment training we did joint training with an ATF chemist because it's so volatile and had special classified secret handbooks with some of the chemical make ups. I don't want to go to jail so I won't go into detail but I shit you not kool aid powder was an ingredient for one of the compounds. Crafty little Arab fucks.

>>32886414
The only thing that would really work would be NERA, but it adds weight and complexity for something not really designed to take anti tank shots anyway.

>>32886311
A buddy of mine was a husky driver, that's a thankless job and usually motor trans guys so they're doing some of the most dangerous shit in the aor and then have some brand new never deployed infantryman calling them pog when they get home.

I never was in a convoy with a husky but 07 was a weird time where we were using old stuff and slowly getting new shit.

Anyway my buddy was only 21 and got blown up in a husky and was back out a few weeks later doing it all over again. Those drivers really are the unsung heroes that no one gives credit to.

>>32886727
I was EOD and we called Husky drivers crazy fucks. They were some of the few people we slipped some special "soda" from home to.

>>32886757
What service?

And why do you guys always take 6 hours to come out? Jk

>>32885971
>The mraps are pressurized
what's the point of this? I dont imagine MRAPS need an overpressure system for NBC for fighting insurgents

>>32886822
>What service?
Army
>And why do you guys always take 6 hours to come out? Jk
I fucking hate this question from infantry dudes. Seriously, especially when we know on our end that it's because somebody in their chain of command fucking sat on their request for hours because "EOD takes too long" before begrudgingly passing it to us. So we actually receive the call like 4 hours after it's made ensuring that everybody waiting on the site is pissed at us no matter how fast we show up.

That's why I liked doing embedded dismount with the same platoon over to build up a relationship with that specific unit and over pushing into an area, or doing fly in missions with whoever to kick down a door and take their bombz materials away.

>>32886864
It has something to do with being blown up and giving extra protection. I have no idea why though I just remember being told it's pressurized for added survivability when hit.

^eod guy probably knows why.

>>32886916
You go on any secret service missions? Fat chance but I was with the same exact army eod guys in Chicago the night Obama won in 2012 and another place but I can't remember if it was Miami or park city for that one.

Anyway they rolled in my tahoe with me and a little black shep in Chicago. One had an ex wife that was living on disability.

Like I said fat chance it was you.

>>32886954
None of the ones in my time were pressured, that is an NBC thing you'd see on something like a Fox chemical recon vehicle.

You might be thinking of pressure venting, which helps reduce how much blast pressure fucks you up. That's what the little 2 inch circular windows on the side of the truck do.

>>32886990
I was overseas then, fampei.

Did a ton of USSS missions. Very fun all the time.

>>32885971
>When we got the newer humvees that were built in factory with armor rather than the old stuff that was cobbled together you could hear the frame groaning and screeching under the weight, especially off road.
The ones we started getting around 2010 had a completely new suspension and engine, they actually ran pretty decently.

>>32886109
>Acquiring and shaping the copper disc to the right form is by far the hardest part, not the propellant.
By about 08/09 they were out of all the 155s, and getting stuff smuggled in harder, so they were down to manufacturing urine-concentrate based explosive in some cases.

>>32886954
>haha lol let's just let the blast wave from an IED sweep through the passenger cabin xD

>>32887408
Could have just answered the question faggot.

>>32886596
>Tfw it's been 10 years
Sad Pepe.jpg

>>32881069
>Not very effective against Explosively Formed Penetrator (EFP)
Neither is a fucking Abrams. Nothing is.

MRAPs are good in the limited role they were originally designed for.

>>32886596
I was near the Iz, an OP off of Rte Irish/Jackson. It was all JAM, all the time. The local police were all corrupt as fuck as well, Shia dominated AO. The 1sg of our sister unit we attached to is still in Leavenworth for executing a detainee. Those were some wild days. I don't think you ever fully adapt back to civilian life after that kind of up close in your face tour

>>32882581
Underrated post.

>>32881069
>IED threat
>survivability

>>32881091
this

>>32881069
Yeah they have electrical outlets. How the hell else was I going to charge my iPod in Iraq? Let's use our brains here.

>>32881175
The Gavin should be modernized and fitted with a 155mm full auto

>>32887102
PEE

IN

TNT