/thg/ Treadhead General

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>>32821727
OP: As always, feedback, suggestions wanted and appreciated.
Little bit late on this week's thread, but I'm sure it's not a big issue. I wasn't quite sure where to go after the York thread, so I picked out suggestions at random and the MT-LB was where I ended up. Without a doubt, it is not a glamourous vehicle, but it played an important part in the Soviet Army of the 1970s-1990s and an absolutely critical one in the arsenals of Warsaw Pact members such as East Germany and Poland. The many, many variants of the vehicle, both for export and for specialised domestic use, are too many to count here, but it seemed that the humble MT-LB could be modded to fit every single vehicular role out there - as tank destroyers, transports, tractors and command posts. When NATO and the west first caught wind of the MT-LB in the 1970s, the first question that came to the minds of military planners was why the Soviet Union was producing the MT-LB, albeit in lesser numbers, when the excellent BMP was already in service. In hindsight, it is quite clear that a similar armed APC role was not envisioned for the MT-LB, but rather a versatile motor to support operations of all varieties with limited industrial and technological strain. The MT-LB certainly succeeded in this respect.

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>>32821733
More tank news, as per the new format.
If you have more queries regarding a news story, just point it out, and I'll further elaborate and provide links.

Some of you may recall the seizure of Singaporean Terrex AFVs by customs officials in Hong Kong over a month ago. It has now come to light that the vehicles in question will be returned to Singaporean authorities, as HK officials have completed investigations into the cargo and licensing breach that triggered the seizure.

An Austro-Turkish deal birthed in October 2015 in which Austria's AVL and Turkey's TUMOSAN would cooperate to produce an engine for use in the indigenous Altay MBT, has now been scuppered after disputes over export licenses. Representatives from TUMOSAN declared that the conditions under which the Austrian government would issue such licenses were "interfering with the domestic politics of Turkey".

The UK government, as part of its large swathe of arms procurements, is now seeking to acquire the Oshkosh JLTV, with the primary barrier now being if the US will grant permission for export. Although the MoD has come under criticism from budgetary watchdogs over the prospective expense of modernising equipment, acquiring new aircraft from both Lockheed Martin and Boeing, all the while developing a new 8x8 AFV, it is now clear that an FMS letter is now being lodged.

The Defense Information Systems Agency, under the umbrella of the Pentagon, filed a letter of corrective action with the General Accountability Office last Wednesday in order to walk back its earlier decision to award the contract for an advanced artillery fire system to Leidos after complaints from two competitors. However, whether this letter implies a re-evaluation or a complete dismissal of Leidos' bid is not clear at this stage.

And that's all for now.

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Morozov Bureau modernized MT.

Any shots of the inside?

Is the Khrizantema an MT-LB too?

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>>32821727
>In fact, both former communist countries such as Poland or Bulgaria, and the Russian Federation continue to maintain fleets
Even Finland operates them. MTLB is love, MTLB is life.

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>>32822527
http://atvmtlb.ru/catalog/Cena_MTLB_naibolee_populyarnye_modeli_svojstva_prednaznachenie_76/MTLBU_333.html
>>32822798
No, Khrizantema is on BMP-3 chassis.

>>32822527
Also here's a bunch of good pics. Enjoy.
http://twower.livejournal.com/510949.html

Anyone wana buy MTLB-U?

http://wojsko.com.pl/index.php?cPath=94_42
>"on sale for export into EU or further"

Functional, only around 6000/9000km milage.
Only 92.250,00 Onions, that's 22,771 Trumps or 21,285 Cucks.
:)

So would it be overreaching to say that the MT-LB is directly comparable to the M113 in it's performance and assigned roles?

>>32823082
Not really.
M113 is a designated APC while MT-LB is basically an armored supply truck.

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>>32823113
Wut? MT-LB is an APC too.

>>32823206
MT-LB literally means Motorised Tractor of light armour

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>>32823277
Tractor is tractor, tyagach is tyagach. MTLB is a multipurpose vehicle with a metric fuckton of implementations and modifications and it is also used as an APC. Check the LJ link I posted above, it specifically shows an example of it being used as a light APC in a mountain brigade.

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Who here plays World of Tanks? I just got the Hellcat

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>>32823330
tyaga is thrust
tyagach is an object used to provide thrust
Tractors are vehicles that provide thrust

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>>32823349
Tpáктop (aнгл. track (тpaк - ocнoвнoй элeмeнт гyceницы) «cлeд»[1][2]) — caмoдвижyщaяcя (гyceничнaя или кoлёcнaя) мaшинa, выпoлняющaя ceльcкoхoзяйcтвeнныe, дopoжнo-cтpoитeльныe, зeмлepoйныe, тpaнcпopтныe и дpyгиe paбoты в aгpeгaтe c пpицeпными, нaвecными или cтaциoнapными мaшинaми (opyдиями)[3].
Tягaч — caмoхoднaя бeзpeльcoвaя нaзeмнaя тpaнcпopтнaя мaшинa, пpeднaзнaчeннaя для бyкcиpoвки пpицeпoв и пoлyпpицeпoв, нecaмoхoдных мaшин (cтpoитeльных, ceльcкoхoзяйcтвeнных), гpyзoв нa caнях и вoлoкyшaх, a тaкжe для бyкcиpoвки apт- и paкeтных cиcтeм, нeиcпpaвных caмoхoдных мaшин (aвтoмoбилeй, тaнкoв и пpoч.) и caмoлётoв нa aэpoдpoмaх.
Tractor is a more broad therm, tyagach is specifically a towing vehicle. You want a specific military tyagach, look at MT-T, BTS-4 or even BAT-2 vehicles, though the latter one is more of a bulldozer. Unlike these, MTLB is multipurpose and de facto used as an APC, as proven above. What's here to argue about?

>>32823349
Also, proper therm for tyagach is tractor unit.

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>>32823340
Here's an interesting thing.
KDKhR-1N "Dal" (kompleks nazemnoy distantsionnoy khimicheskoy razvedki) - long-range chemical detection system that works with lasers with a detection range between 1,000 and 7,000 meter. The other specialised equipment consists of the TNA-4-6 naviagtion apparatus, a computer, a data processing unit, the PRKhR detection system, an automatic gas detection device GSA-12, PGO-11 gasindicator, KPO-1 sampling set and the "Karat" TV system.

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>>32823349
Oh, and tyaga is thrust specifically in relation to aircraft. To my understanding in a more common sense in the case of tyagach etymology the root tyaga refers to translational motion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(geometry)#Translations_in_physics

>>32821727
In russia we call her motolyga ( мoтoлЫгa )

>>32823447
Wait, isn't motolyga also that very old wheeled civilian truck from like 50s Soviet Georgia? Or was there another therm for it?

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>>32823447
Oh, wait, no, must be false memory, it was shishiga, GAZ-66.

>>32823347
Hardly anyone plays it by now.

>>32821744
>Singaporean Terrex AFVs by customs officials in Hong Kong over a month ago

China was making a point to Singapore. Singapore claims, and I agree with them that the shipment did not break any laws, local or international. The Singapore government even hinted some reprimand since China shipping pass through Singapore. In the end, as is typical of Asian nations, both sides backed off while claiming moral victory.

>>32823515
Forgot to add, the point China was making is not to have relations with Taiwan.

>>32823491
yep

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>>32822798
You might be thinking about Khrizantema's predecessor Shturm-S, which is indeed an MT-LB armed with Kokon or Ataka ATGMs also used on Mil Mi-24.
>>32822804
Finland used and still uses a lot of Soviet equipment. What's more puzzling to me is that Sweden bought MT-LBs in 1993 when the GDR stock was sold by the Germans and then sold them on to Finland in 2011.

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>>32823544
Guess it's just that good of a vehicle.

>>32823544
Back in the 90's, Swedes leased few former GDR and a few Russian vehicles (MT-LB, BMP-1, T-72M, T-80) to see, how they would've acted in case of a war between USSR and Sweden. TL;DR; they though the extreme northern conditions would not allow the use of MT-LB's and other heavy vehicles. They were wrong.

And since they didn't really have anything to fill the role of lightly armored infantry carriers at the time - they just bought 800 of them from GDR.

>>32823602
Huh, that's interesting, thanks. I thought it was always common knowledge Russians make their equipment work in +50...-50C temperature range.

>>32823611
Well, it was more related to the terrain, rather than temperatures.

I believe, there is some translated stuff on the trials in the internets, atleast I was able to find some by quickly googling.

But the general idea was - they largely underestimated SU's ability to wage war on Sweden.

Also, have some videos and related videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjkWgek6UXU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiqAAuoL3_A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aoe25OsTIng

https://tanks.mod16.org/2015/04/09/report-from-terrain-trials-with-t-80u/

http://omchanin.livejournal.com/871434.html (in russian)

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>>32823619
Wait, what, where they fuck did they get a T-80U? Great vids, will watch, thanks.

>>32823633
Well, they went to Russia and asked for a few.
Remember, it's the 90's we're talking about - Russia was in sort of an economic collapse at the time, so a potential contract for T-80's would've been a godsend (and the Swedes did in fact consider a possibility of making T-80 their main MBT for a time).

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>>32823642
Well, South Korea operates T-80U/UK, there's that, makes sense I guess.

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Why does the barrel look disjointed?

>>32823665
It doesn't.The barrel shroud just makes it look that way.
That rectangular thing on the side with the little trapdoor is the ejector port.

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Saxy new photos of the Eitan prototype.
Even has a new hot tape.

ynet dot co dot il / articles/0,7340,L-4912534,00.html

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>>32824750
Look at that slut, showing the rear in public.

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>>32824760
> Those sand trails

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Posing for the cameras

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>>32824806
> My 30mm is gonna be bigger than yours.

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>>32824817
lewd up skirt pic

>>32824750
It says they'll be equipping the Namer HAPC with a 30mm as well. I guess it will become an HIFV.

>>32822889
that's cheap AF. are these reliable or?

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>>32824893
You say whaaaaaat? Where did you hear that? Can be super cool if done properly.
Though my impression was they're going to replace the M113 with the Eitan as an IFV so that the NAMER can stay the heavy carrier that it is. Which makes more sense coming to think of it- why would you want a 30mm on a treaded 60 ton APC? Where it be of use? They already tried the AGL (can't remember which) on the NAMER and backed off, so what's up now?

>>32821727

The MT-LB is cool.

I have tons of info on the Swedish variant if anyone is interested.

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>>32824991
It says it in the article you posted.

"התותח החדש יורכב גם על גבי נגמ"ש הנמ"ר, ויעניק לכוח פתרון חלופי וגמיש יותר מאשר פגז טנק, עם פחות נזק סביבתי"

They're also working on a way to limit possible collateral caused by the shell.

>Where it be of use?
One imagines that in any environment, urban or otherwise, an autocannon will do a better job than a 12.7 while staying within reasonable weight and budgetary limits.

Worth remembering the lack of heavier armament was one of the reasons why the Namer was rejected in the GCV program; it was found to be 36% less lethal than the Bradley thanks to the meager firepower.

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>tfw halftracks will always be obsolete

251's are some of the best looking military vehicles to be designed too

>>32825279

Why did half tracks fall out of favour after WW2 anyway?

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It's like floaties for an 8x8.

>>32825361

Their main selling point was that they had better offroad capability than a truck but could still be driven by anyone who could drive a truck.

Now days we have figured out how to make proper steering for a fully tracked vehicle so it makes no sense to go back to that.

>>32825361
I think everyone figured fully tracked APCs can do everything they can but better.

>>32825435
>Their main selling point was that they had better offroad capability than a truck but could still be driven by anyone who could drive a truck.

You keep repeating that and will cling to it in every halftrack thread, but people of the time had plenty of direct mechanical experience with tractors and levers etc are intuitive because of their layout. I've driven an M113A2 and it's as easy as using a steering wheel. I've also driven trucks of the era. The differences are trivial.

Halftracks exist because they allow a truck chassis to economically power SHORT, INEXPENSIVE tracks which work better than the shit tires of the era offroad. Halftracks were cheap to make because they shared truck drivetrains.

The Germans called theirs "coffins" (per Tigers in the Mud, Otto Carius) while Americans called theirs "Purple Heart boxes". The only reason modernfags like halftracks is appearance.

Observe this halftrack chassis.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=54002&d=1322811534&thumb=1

You see a truck style frame with truck running gear. The differential is mounted up front. That made those vehicles very easy to build using many COTS and MOTS parts.

>>32825233
>>32824991
>>32824845
>>32824817
>>32824806
>>32824771
>>32824760
>>32824750

Neat. I wonder if it will be fitted with Trophy MV eventually.

>>32825627
Yes. Can't remember where exactly I saw it, but it was announced alongside the announcement of the vehicle itself.

>>32825562

Okay, its just what I have read about them... I never claimed to be some form of expert, and usually dont care about half-tracks.

No need for you to sperg out and show your severe autism to everyone over such a small thing anon...

>>32825416
>Based Kongsberg turret

>>32825824
Anon offered a clear and precise explanation with little malice intended. Calling people out when they're wrong is hardly autism.

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>>32821727

>>32825416
Never skip wheel day.

>>32828230
I find it funny how you included the test post.

>>32825012
Please post, I never knew the Swedes had MT-LBs.

>>32828350
Someone might want to find more about thg guy on the desuarchive so they need to know the correct trip code.

>>32823515
I assume the Chinks managed to get a good peek inside the workings of the Terrex, and will introduce a APC of their own soon that looks strangely similar.

>>32828653
We should get a separate host for thg threads in case desu goes down again.

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>>32828634

>>32823347
I just unlocked the m18 too

>>32821744
>An Austro-Turkish deal birthed in October 2015 in which Austria's AVL and Turkey's TUMOSAN would cooperate to produce an engine for use in the indigenous Altay MBT, has now been scuppered after disputes over export licenses. Representatives from TUMOSAN declared that the conditions under which the Austrian government would issue such licenses were "interfering with the domestic politics of Turkey".
How is Altay doing anyway? Is it good? The only thing I could find was a youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6WYXIcHK0M

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2S1 Gvozdika

is a Soviet self-propelled howitzer based on the chassis MT-LB APC, mounting the 122 mm 2A18 howitzer. "2S1" is its GRAU designation. An alternative Russian designation is SAU-122 but in the Russian Army it is commonly known as Gvozdika. The 2S1 is fully amphibious with very little preparation, and once afloat is propelled by its tracks. A variety of wider tracks are also available to allow the 2S1 to operate in snow or swamp conditions. It is NBC protected and has infra-red night-vision capability.

The first prototype was ready in 1969. The 2S1 entered service with the Soviet Army in the early 1970s and was first seen in public at a Polish Army parade in 1974. The vehicle was deployed in large numbers (72 per tank division, 36 per motorized rifle division). It was designated the M1974 by the U.S. Army and manufactured in Bulgarian, Polish and Russian state factories.

>>32830888
I think the development of the Altay largely depends on how far the K2 is.

>>32830745
literally covered the front of the turret with jerry cans cause they recolour with the map.

>>32830888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpbKKAHfaBw

>>32823656

They're being withdrawn already, the South Koreans aren't too fond of them.

>>32832014
Finnish slavshit is the best looking slavshit.

>>32833509
APS? I'd like to see more of that.

>>32833509
>>32833887
I for one am interested in what they mean by "cannonproof armor".

>>32834241
typically it's 14.7 up to 30mm

>>32832579
I thought they returned them to Russia.

>>32824991
At the ICME 2016 RAPAT had quite a few things to say. All of this is non classified:
The IDF has developed a turret for the Namer and Eitan. 30x173mm autocannon, 60mm mortar, coax MAG, 2 ATGMs, and Trophy, all on a single externally mounted turret (with access from within the vehicle).
Apparently there is no doctrine yet for the use of such systems, as it was only in the developmental stage and the IDF hadn't decided if they were going to buy them. Among the changes to the Namer to accomodate such a turret is moving the commander forward, elevating his position's periscopes, and a few others.
To the best of my knowledge the IDF decided that the idea of a medium cannon which closely accompanied the troops is useful, particularly the ability to rain down accurate fire during the advance, and covering the dismounts as they go about their work. If you're already building 60 ton HAPCs, the incremental cost of such a turret is pretty small compared to its utility.

>>32830888
Wait, so is Austria taking a stand against Erdogan's domestic policies?

>>32825627
I've seen the thing IRL, and there are a few things to note:
1. The current vehicle is not even a prototype, it's a technology demonstrator. A lot of things will change from this to the production version. Notably I was told the tires are not ideal but were available, presumably better ones will be available for production.
Trophy is planned, along with good base armor. This thing is intended to replace the 113, and the IDF has had too many incidents of those being rekt by RPGs.

>>32823544
We bought them from the swedes because they were stupid cheap. 18k euros per vehicle is pretty good deal for battle taxi.

>>32834241
It means it impervious to anything below a 30mm shell

>>32832185
i think you mean War Thunder not World of Tanks

https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?25769-Turkish-Altay-MBT

enjoy the turk denial autism (and overall autism) in this thread
its long but always cracks me up

>>32835802
>Damian
That guy is everywhere with his precious Abrams. Ehile I think the Abrams is pretty damn good, in his eyes it seems the Americans can do no wrong, and the guy is seriously obnoxious. He's the main reason I don't have an account on several forums.

>>32835887
he argued in some thread that the side armor of the M1A2Sepv2 is something around 700mm RhAe and that even the rear is 300+
cant find it now but it might have been in the closed beta before the forum wipe

>>32827212
Did you ever have to maintain them?

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>>32823642
>and the Swedes did in fact consider a possibility of making T-80 their main MBT for a time

Well, one of them.

We wanted a really good tank for our armoured brigades, and a somewhat cheaper one for the mechanised brigades.

With both the Leo2 and M1, this would simply mean the newest version for the armoured units and second hand older versions for the mechanised units. There was a third option though, and that was the brand new (somewhat unfinished) Leclerc. As the French didn't have a good budget option, the T-80 would have become the budget companion to the Leclerc, if that option had been chosen.

Downscaling of the army after the cold war ended means we now only have the high end tank left. This is also why we've sold off plenty of the Combloc APC/IFVs we bought. They were cheap, we needed to increase mechanisation, but not long thereafter the units that got them were disbanded.

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>>32828634
I'm not him, but I have a book.

We needed battlefield taxis in the early nineties. After first having bought a few just to see what the Ruskies had been cooking up, they were found good and cheap enough to get as something of a stopgap solution. So we bought 460 of them 60 MT-LBu, and a bunch (90?) MTP-LB armoured recovery vehicles. Some of these have been converted to ambulances, company and battalion command vehicles, ATGM carrier, AA missile carrier and radio vehicles.

Today the army has gotten rid of about 400 of them, with the rest being kept as a "just in case" reserve.

We also bought 350 BMP1 while we were at it (Pansarbandvagn 501), and had them renovated and slightly tarted up by a Czech company. A few were turned into company command, but no other variants were created The units that got them ended up axed by budget cuts however, so they just ended up in storage. IIRC we sold most (all?) of them back to the Czechs, who then turned around and re-sold them, a number ending up in Iraq.

Finally 32 T-55 based BLG 60 M" bridge layers were bought, here called Brobandvagn 971, because the bridge layers we had couldn't lay out anything that'd stand up to a Leo2. These were given a more thorough Swedification than the others. Mew MG mount, new radio, move the antenna, new batteries, new handheld fire extinguisher, tool boxes, external telephone, smoke launchers, and replacing the crew compartment heater unit with one less likely to explode. It seems two thirds are scheduled to be or have been sold off/Scrapped, with hope of buying something a bit newer some day in the not too distant future.

>>32823347
>wot
find cleaning supplies and drink the liquids

>>32832185
"shoot here plz" markers
my cheeto thanks you

>>32836690
What's with the weird glacis?

Was that T-72 tested by the sweds for service?

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>>32836883
>Was that T-72 tested by the sweds for service?

No, that was purely for curiosity.

>>32837169
But it got a super weird glacis.

Is that the T-72 with the "special box" which counters radio detonated mines etc from east germany?

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I wish this asshole would get his shitbox out of my car's way

>>32838411
Damn, is this near your house?

>>32836696
Book title please.

>>32832579
They were officially taken out of service two years ago.

>>32824988
>>>32822889
>that's cheap AF. are these reliable or?
Yea they're in working order.

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>>32838756
Yeah. Its at an American legion.

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>>32840161

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>>32840181

>>32839840
>>32838411
For some reason the coaxial on that thing is a M2. I didn't know that was possible.

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>>32840200
>For some reason the coaxial on that thing is a M2. I didn't know that was possible.

Plenty of room. Some late war Shermans had the .30 coax swapped out for a .50

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>>32834589
>30x173mm autocannon
Is this on the Samson RCWS?

>>32835887
I love how asshurt he makes people by being right most of the time.

>>32835954
You can't find it because it never happened.

>>32840853
Damian, please.

>>32840224
Any hull .50 cal Shermans?

>>32835775
Muh sekrit dokumints xaxaxa))))))

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Bump.

>>32838411
>exact same picture posted on /o/
>everyone took the piss out on the shitbox

>>32840168
What's the story behind this one?

>>32844463
Kroton
Polish mine layer

>>32840200
some russian heavy tanks after WWII had 14.5mm coax guns. that's almost a fucking autocannon.

>>32840365
The turret under development is not a Samson. For a start, it's lower profile, has a 60mm mortar, and is armored.

>>32845099
I know there were tanks with heavy coaxials. I was just surprised that one could be fitted to the M60.

>>32845195
Amx-30. 20mm coax

>>32845234
Yes, I know.
But to mount a larger coaxial than a 7.62 you need more space, a larger hole in the mantlet, and so on. I didn't know the M60 had that. This is specifically about the M60.
All the others were desifned from the ground up for the larger weapons- for example, the M47 Patton was initially supposed to have a .50 coax, and so could be retrofitted with one.

>>32845090
Marketed in the US? Neat.

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>>32845545
kek
i did not noticed that board

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>>32839409
"Svenskt Pansar, 90 år av svensk stridsfordonsutveckling" by Rickard O. Lindström and Carl-Gustaf Svantesson.

And if you can read that then the former of the authors has plenty of stuff (some of which ended up in the book) on his site: http://ointres.se/

>>32828230
Wasn't the AMX-13 DCA the first radar SPAAG known to the west? Iirc it was made public in 1963.

>>32846604
1969 according to Tank encyclopedia

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/France/AMX-13-DCA/

>>32825562
is there a single vehicle that WASNT reffered to as a coffin or a grave in ww2, and M113 being easy to drive just exactly proves his point not disproves it because its post war after half-tracks

half-tracks were indispensable for an armoured force; guess that jackass they also called tanks of all varieties 'grave for x men' or whatever; I guess we should remove those too

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>>32827506
But where is the wrong? Both posts are practically agreeing with eachother.

Both say they are easy to drive

Both say they got better performance then normal trucks while the sligthly aggresive post add that it was also cheap then fullblown tracked APC.

Halftracks are deathtraps? Well what does that say about normal tracks and horse drawn carts who were not designed to protect? They offer 0 protection while halftracks are intended to at minimum offer fragmentation protection which is the main killer.

Anything is a deathtrap if you have bad memories or seen something bad happen to the people inside it. Just ask belton cooper for that even tho statistically speaking the vehicle he spoke of had the least amount of KIA compared to other vehicles in it's class. Hell being a rifleman is more dangerous then being a tanker.

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Bumpin' to fight the rising shitpost tide.

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>>32848685
Posting best heavy.

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So /thg/ why haven't you taken the time to volunteer at a local armor/tank museum or help an old rich guy with his collection?

>>32850882
because they closed the only one in my state and sold everything off privately.
furthermore the armour exhibit that was open to civilians on the military base has been closed off to only base personnel for some years now. and i smoke too much to sign up.

>>32850882
>>32850996
>tfw there's no museum for 60 kms around me

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What kind of targeting sights do Modernized T-64BVs have? Do they have passive thermal?

>>32851953
Is that supposed to break the outline of the Abrams?

>>32851953
That's awesome. I know the US has some netting like this in Europe but I have only seen Abrams covered like this in Australia and netting prototype mock ups.

Tell me more.

>>32852858
It helps a little but it's mostly suppose to hide it's thermal signature. It also scatters radar and laser range finders.

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>>32852973
>>32852858
It is Barracuda multi-spectral camo, the US bought a small quantity recently.

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>>32823347
consolefag here, I play
Just finished the Hellcat, prefer the T25/2
>inb4 consolecuck
We got the Chally Mk6, so it's fair to say we're not as cucked as it seems

>>32852855
IIRC Ukraine has upgraded some recently, but as a rule of thumb T-64's do not have thermal sights.

>>32851953
Is that an American 'Nakidka'?

>>32853281
it's been around for a wee bit. mostly on leo2's

>>32853258
Really, no thermals on Russian T-64s?

>>32854722
Most T-64/T-72/T-80 lack thermals.

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>>32852855
Firstly, thermals are not passive nor active. They just are.

On the other hand, IR sights are categorised by passive and active means od operation.

Just trying to help out.

>>32855112
Of*

>>32855112
>Firstly, thermals are not passive nor active. They just are.

A sensor is either actively emitting shit and hoping some of it comes back, or just passively sitting there and picking up what it can. Thermals only coming in the second form doesn't mean they're neither active nor passive, merely that since they're all passive, there's no need to distinguish for them.

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Looks like the BMP lost the duel

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>>32856133
al bab?

SAA T-90A is closing in al Bab.

Leopard 2A4 and T-90A are going operate along side each other

this is the time to be alive

pic is not from al bab though

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>>32856174
Tiger Force T-90A near al Bab

>>32856133

ISIS BMP-1 near Al-Bab, apparently.

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>>32856133

>>32856437

Lucky hit in the rear which disabled the engine

Said BMP-1 was killed seconds later

>>32856446
More impressive than IFV destroyed by a tank.

Been meaning to ask this for a while since I couldn't find any solid sources

>How many M1s of all variants are currently active in the US Military?
>What's the oldest one we still field
>Is the M1A1 or HA still in service or is the A2 the new standard?
>Does the Marines have SEP packages?
>How many do we have in active service?

>>32856437
>>32856446
>>32856476
how do they not see that honestly.
with how retarded these tank crewmen have been you'd think they believe the tank alerts them to where enemy forces are..

>>32856555
Even in the most modern tanks, the peripheral vision is still shit.

>>32823347
>>32853195
SU-152 master race! T25/2 can't never compete with Russian steel. Russian steel stronk!

>Squad is adding the MTLD soon

Neat.

>>32857086
Don't quite like how the vehicles handle in Squad.

>>32857420

They are updating the handling with the vehicle update as well.

>>32855669

He just meant that there's no such thing as an active thermal sensor, so asking if they have "passive thermals" doesn't make any sense.

>>32858734
??
of course there is such thing as an active infrared sensor

>>32859580
Infrared =/=thermal

Read this>>32855112

>>32859580

Infrared is not the same as thermal. They are two different things.

This is like confusing binoculars for a telescope because they both use visible light.

>>32823572
>>32823402
Sorry if I ain't lurked enough, but is there a name for this new armor suite, as well as info on RHA equivalency, weight, etc.?

Also, are those the same setup as >>32822497

>>32856555
If I remember correctly this was on Heavy Meal on the History Channel or something like that. In the TV show the BMP-1 wad depicted as a T-72. The vehicle had it's engine turned off for some time and was in a some what hull down position. The tank couldn't see the thing at night and stopped right in front of it. They were preoccupied with taking Iraqi prisoners on the other side of the vehicle.

>>32859726
>>32859706
what is the difference between infrared and thermal

>>32860811
>Heavy Meal

>>32856745
All the shooters like Battlefield and Arma are pretty accurate in depicting the gunner's lack of situational awareness.

>>32856534
Oldest ones you'll find are in the Marine Corps, as they still use the M1A1HA.

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Why no go fast?

>>32863557
All USMC Abrams are M1A1 FEP.

>>32861151
An infrared camera make a visible light image out of infrared light, while thermal cameras make an image out of temperature differences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkTeu619hfg

>>32863907
so its exactly the same thing except inverted color scheme?

>>32863936
No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_intensifier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermographic_camera

These are passive illumination, if an image intensifiers is paired with an infrared light it becomes active illumination.

>>32863757
Any plans to upgrade to surplus M1A2s from the Army in the future?

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>>32865117
Every M1A2 the US Army has is in use, either in active ABCT's or national guard ABCT's, so not until something replaces them.

The Marine Corps M1A1 FEP are similar to but better than the M1A1 SA used by the national guard. They have received or are receiving further upgrades like being able to use their RWS in the hunter-killer role the commanders thermal sight performs on M1A2's. There are also a bunch with the ammunition data links already that SEPv3's are getting because they were upgraded for Afghanistan.

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>>32863936

Infrared uses IR light from the near-to-visible end of the spectrum. Thermal uses IR light from the far end of the spectrum.

IR cameras give you a picture that looks sort of like your bare eye, but brighter. It literally looks as if you've just turned up the brightness on the real world.

Thermal cameras give you a picture that looks as if things are glowing from within, rather than having light cast on them. This lets you spot people and things against the cold earth much more easily than if you were only using IR.

>>32857420
I never got a chance to buy squad, how are the vehicles different to PR if you've played that?

they cant be worse

>>32866168
Really floaty is how I would describe it.

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>>32851953
>>32853185
Neat

>>32865512
>tfw even nasty girls get to drive tanks while I'm in the navy

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>>32863757

>>32837536
late response but, correct me if i'm wrong swedes liked to put extra armour on their tanks

>>32823656
which was given to them as payment for their debt

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>>32839734
>M735 APFSDs
>420 mm penetration at 2000 m

The M735 barely pen 350 mm at 1000 meters.

does anyone have any more info on the T29/T30 projects than "its a big fucking tank with a big fucking gun"?
is there any credence to the story of the T95 only being found by some farmer on land near a base because the army lost it?

>>32870734
>does anyone have any more info on the T29/T30 projects than "its a big fucking tank with a big fucking gun"?

Just read R. P. Hunnicutt books.

>>32870882
The books in question are called History of American Tank and they're in the dropbox.

>>32870734
>is there any credence to the story of the T95 only being found by some farmer on land near a base because the army lost it?
Yes, as far as I can tell, it's totally true.

>>32871832
Wait, how do you lose the biggest afv the US has ever produced?

>>32872226
The Army doesn't know either.

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>>32870713
The last hurrah of the parachute tank

>>32871345
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/y4oultwtpsurrny/AAAF5YQlmMyQ7Ef6JcLRwqQua?dl=0
(In the Tanks Redux folder)

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>>32852025
Can we even call ourselves "tracks" anymore once we completely phase out the P7 with the ACV?

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>>32875462
See you in 20 years when that happens.

>>32825361
What >>32825435 said, plus increasing the length of a tracked section increases the amount of friction it produces, making half-tracks inherently faster than a fully tracked vehicle. During the war, track technology progressed to allow high speeds (See M18, etc)
making half tracks unnecessary.

>>32875541
Lol I saw that before I got out, so does it stay on the track or do we have to take off like we do for EEAK when we deploy on MEUS/combat deployments?

>>32845597
Why is China able to field such a wide variety of new equipment so fast compared to the US?

>>32875541
What would happen if an RPG-7 were to hit the side of that with the new armor? Would it be able to go through?

>>32876442
Mostly because of generous state subsidies to a small number of key state owned enterprises, and an entirely streamlined acquisition schedule due to no OHS or industrial laws or oversight committee delays.

>>32876442
Being a late adopter gives a misleading appearance.

>>32877068
That, and plagiarizing from everyone else.

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>>32832014
Don't let the impressive tank fleet or infantry fool you, this vehicle was the main man in the Soviet arsenal.

Half the entire Soviet military was artillery.

>>32839734
>Steel Beasts ammunition data

People really need to stop referencing that game and it's plethora of inaccuracies.

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>>32878034
i really like the direction the Russia are going with their artillery

120-130mm gun/mortar on a light weigh tracked or wheeled chassis

>>32872226
documents expire then get destroyed, it was probably written off.

>>32836696
>Today the army has gotten rid of about 400 of them, with the rest being kept as a "just in case" reserve.

Not true, all are gone today, the last ones was sold to Finland a few years ago. (All BMP-1s and BLG-60Ms are also gone)

>>32878064
That thing is for export tho, and will most likely not show up in RU service.

It looks like a french CAESAR with a micropenis but on a chassie that doesnt look like shit.

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>>32878165
>That thing is for export tho
true
but pic related was support to be in Russian service
before the state test complete, MOD decide to developed a improved version with BMP-3 and BMD-4 chassis and a wheeled chassis

the new vehicle will have two version, 152mm gun and 120mm gun

>>32878188
Oh, thats nice. What organic role are they going to fill?

Brigade level artillery or even down on battalion level?

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>>32867634
I think the only cases I can think of is that we've fiddled around a good amount with the armour on the Leo2A5 and we slapped some ERA plates onto some Centurions towards the end of their lifespan.

We never used the T72 however, the tank in that pic is just a museum specimen.

>>32878234
Dont forget the HEAT-fence on the Strv 103.

But other than that I agree.

>Tfw you have climbed that Leo

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>>32878242
Well, that was kind of intended from the start I think, so less extra armour and more armour that could be detached to keep it secret. But I guess that difference is some serious hair splitting.

>>32878208
they will replacing Nona gun/mortar, some 122mm and 152mm gun in VDV service

>>32832014

When swimming the 2S1 tended to become overheated funny enough, mostly because of overworking (readlining) of the engine.

>>32872226
>testing vehicle
>done, go home, not my problem anymore.
>no one comes to pick it up, forgotten.

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>>32846686
Huh.
My Jane's pocket book from 1974 gives me prototype 1962, produced in 64-65
All other sources I've found give me out into service 68-69.
Typo? Extended trials?
I trusted you, Jane's.

>>32873825
You don't like the Sheridan and Sprud SD?

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>>32878064
>wheeled chassis

>>32878633

>Strategic mobility sucks

Whatever senpai, that thing will manage offroad better than a M109 anyday.

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>>32878633
The Israelis are going the same route. They dislike needing to lug the M109 everywhere. And that's in a country the size of New Jersey.

>>32878667
>that thing will manage offroad better than a M109 anyday.

Basis for that assertion is what?

Wheeled heavy artillery is sustained by wheeled logistics and Russia does not have to do long distance strategic power projection. It doesn't need to be great off road for Russian use. Not every military needs the same vehicles.

>>32879587
I don't think the Israeli M109s are going anywhere. They didn't adopt the SOLTAM.

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>>32878633
it is easier to airdrop a wheeled vehicle
they also cheaper and faster

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>>32879671
>I don't think the Israeli M109s are going anywhere.
You are incorrect. They've been looking for a replacement since 2011. Currently, the ATMOS is competing with the AGM for the tender. The ATMOS looks favored.

>>32878064
This is mainly oriented towards the export market, but if you are referring to the adoption of the excellent 120 mm gun/mortar in lieu of the 122 mm howitzer then you are right.
All the benefits of a traditional large caliber mortar such as better weapon effects with the benefit of propulsion and automated FCS normally reserved for large caliber howitzers.
The very steep plunging fire even at targets very close means it can retain and even exceed the Gvozdika's propensity for use as anti-tank gun such as in Ukraine; a STRIX-ski round is a no-brainer here especially they have demonstrated rounds with similar niche but using alternative guidance and correction of laser and impulse-correction respectively.

>>32878667
Err, no. Tracks are still superior in off-road terrain than wheels. And yes, while the resupply are mainly wheel-based (I'm getting mixed messages if the Russians are going to implement the whole vehicle family based on a single chassis across all vehicles in a brigade, then, division, now or in just the traditional AFV roles which normally doesn't include your logistical support vehicles which are mainly trucks) it doesn't mean that the superior mobility of the tracked SPHs are rendered superfluous, on the contrary, the way SPHs work in a highly fluid battle in theory with a responsive enemy (counterbattery fires actually happen) is that they shoot and scoot from firing position to firing position, the faster they can unload the demands of the fire mission, the better as well as the faster they can get out of dodge into a new position or go into cover, and they rarely expend more than a dozen rounds while doing so, which means the resupply vehicle can be left in a very secure spot in the rear areas likely closer to the road network where its mainly based and again, the faster the traverse through off-road terrain into said spot the better.

>>32879671
Soltam is a steel products company, not a product. They do make heavy artillery, and offer several models for sale.
They also make some good kitchenware.

>>32879587
The IDF in recent years was been undergoing several major conceptual changes, some of the more visible being the founding of מפקדת העומק (strategic depth command) and commando brigade, the development of the Eitan, and a few others. The IDF is reacting to the changing environment around (including lessons from 2006 and Gaza), and adapting accordingly. Considering the age of the M109s, and their manpower requirements, a replacement is long overdue, and there are most definitely things in the works for choosing the next system- at the ICME 2016 the Artillery branch had a few interesting things to say, including an emphasis on full autoloading capability (as opposed to the PzH 2000 which has a loader for the charges).
Whatever will replace the 109 will probably also suit the 'New IDF' doctrine, with reduced manning, increased mobility and of course networking and computerization to a very high degree.
I only hope the IDF also reforms some of the more idiotic things involved in running a conscript army since 1948.
t. Joo

>>32854722
>>32852855
The only Russian tanks that currently have thermals and exist in quantity are T-90A's and T-72B3's.

T-80BV's will join them soon with the coming modernization.

>>32880206
Wouldn't be hard to build more tracked logistics vehicles

If the US was serious about offense wars, thats what they would be doing

>>32880045
People really underestimate the effectiveness of HE on armor.

I don't doubt that many warsaw pact tankers would find themselves more prone to slugging OF-26 at NATO MBTs instead of their shitty AP rounds just in hope of scoring a mission kill

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>>32878625

Where can I find Jane's books ?

>>32881288
Costs an arm and a leg to buy them online or to get a proper subscription. You can download some of them from book mirrors, however.

>>32881288
2006 version on tanks can be located >>32875089

>>32881182
I feel it is obligatory to mention HESH.

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>>32883997

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K-9 in Finland

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Something a little more vintage.

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One of the Cromwells with a welded hull and 100mm of frontal armour. Not very many pictures of these in action floating around as only a few dozen were made in '44 and '45.

We need a plane version of these threads.

>>32888340
Then make it anon, be the change you want to see on the board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do0C-TZLQGY

Holy Shit, what a waste of resources. Even Syrian barrel bombs are more efficient.

>>32888753
They are for getting around ceasefire restrictions.

The original ceasefire terms called for withdrawing all artillery beyond the range of 152mm guns, which was the largest Ukraine had in service at the time. Not wanting to have to actually stop the shelling Ukraine returned the longer-ranged Pion 203mm guns to service.

The separatists just ignored the ceasefire terms and kept their guns near the front.

>>32888800
Of course that does not apply due to the fact I somehow could not tell the difference between a gun and a mortar. Clearly its time to stop posting.

>>32888753
You won't call them inefficient when they're firing tactical nuclear warheads.

That was actually their main role.

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>>32888753
What in the video even made you think so? It can fire laser guided mines.
>>32888800
>They are for getting around ceasefire restrictions.
The shit are you even talking about, it was filmed on the other side of the continent in Primorsky Krai.

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>>32889006
Actually it was first and foremost developed as a self-propelled replacement for M240 towed mortar as the advantages of self-propelled artillery became apparent and Khruschev was resigned.

>>32888368
This. More high quality content instead of bait threads is always appreciated.

>>32887617
>>32887604
>>32887587
Norwegian/Finnish artillery partnership for glorious Northern Alliance when?

>>32889302
Sadly, all I see are bait threads these days.

>>32883561

Thanks

>>32823347
e75 ftw

>>32889895
That's why I love /thg/

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B(u)MP

>>32848194
shut the fuck up faggot and take your gay picture with you when you go

>>32881110
Yeah but they would be horrendously expensive to buy, operate, and maintain- remember you are to need a lot of trucks compared to the frontline combatant vehicles it supports, something like for an armored brigade (US), you want like 900 trucks, the Russians have similar ratios I think.

>>32881182
>I don't doubt that many warsaw pact tankers would find themselves more prone to slugging OF-26 at NATO MBTs instead of their shitty AP rounds just in hope of scoring a mission kill
Soviet AP ammo were more than fine for their time-- the only problem really is that the Cold War ended when the Soviets were just on the cusp of introducing their responses to the next gen of NATO vehicles and their subsequent upgrades in short order (that's how tight the race is), but that didn't stop them from pretty much overmatching the hell out of backbone NATO armor such as the M60, and Leo 1 variants, which were forgotten or rather discarded in favor of newer from-scratch vehicles with lots of growth potential. Case in point, the Israeli Sabra, which is a good vehicle, but nobody in their right mind would suggest it would ever come close to the M1A1 despite how much upgrades you put. But in any case, yeah, HE rounds are still a killer.

>>32892037
When I said Warsaw pact, I meant the NSWP allies who didn't have anything better than 3BM-15. Soviet AP itself could defeat the M1A1 at 2km since the 3BM-26, and 3BM-32/42 were enough for the 2A4/M1A1HA at closer ranges. But the NSWP had nothing that could take on heavy NATO armor from the front, meaning they would have had to rely on crippling enemy tanks instead of outright destroying them.

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>>32891420

>>32892480
I think the volume of HE artillery available to the Pact members would have been pretty effective against NATO tank formations.

>>32853195
>T25/2
size of a barn
no armor
not very good gun merely decent
shit camo
it's crap

>>32834241
>>32834355
>>32834491
i guess it's the middle of the heirarchy yeah

it probably goes bulletproof -> "cannonproof" -> shellproof, although that is still a strange term i haven't seen anywhere else

Is the MBT concept obsolete? A tank hasn't fought another tank since like WW2

>>32894080
>A tank hasn't fought another tank since like WW2
That's possibly the wrongest thing I've seen on /k/ today, and that's saying something.

>>32894080
what is the 6 day war
what is the yom kippur war
what is the lebanon war
what is donbass
what is syria

sure major tank producing nations haven't gone to war with each other, but there are still multiple armored engagements in recent history

>>32894080
Read up before you make bold claims.

>>32869770
Source for that image?

>>32894258
>>32894253
>>32894164
third world brawls with obsolete gear doesn't count

>>32894658
these goalposts would win the indy 500

>>32894658
>GOALPOST

>>32894658
>obsolete gear
By whos criteria? The tanks used in the 6 days war, Yom kippur war and even labanon war were modern tanks at that time.

>>32894658
>third world brawls
>obsolete gear
Right, what about the Korean War? Latest in US tanks, Pershings, late WWII Shermans vs T-34/85s and various modern support vehicles.

>>32894658
>>obsolete gear

The 6 Day War
>T-55 and M-48 vs M48A3 and Centurion

Yom Kippur war
>T-55 and T-62 vs Centurion and M60

Lebanon war
>T-72 vs M60 and Merkava I

Donbass
>T-64 and Oplat BM vs T-72B3

Syria
>T-72M1 vs T-72

All of those fights included tanks that were in NATO or Warsaw Pact/Russian inventory.

>>32894658
what is the battle of 73 easting

>>32897538
And the war everyone forgets about

Iran-Iraq War
>T-55, T-62, T-72 vs M48, M60, Chieftain

>>32897538
>Donbass
>>T-64 and Oplat BM vs T-72B3
T-72B3 wasn't fielded in Donbass, and neither was Oplot (which barely exists anyway).

T-72B and T-64 Bulat on the other hand were used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6cjFdse-ew

T-62 officially better than Leopard.

>>32899412
Impressive. You can see that propellant is consumed and vented out the turret hatches, yet at least 3 poor fuckers manages to get out from the same hatches just a few seconds later.
Most likely they have some serious burns, but adrenaline is good at keeping you going.

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>>32899580

>>32899616
i always wondered if that BDD applique was any good

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>>32899580
There is plenty of proof of T-72B3 being used and IIRC there are photos of at least one lost Oplat but I might be confusing it with Bulat.

>>32899636
It's "Oplot". Oplot is an old-fashioned Russian word for "stronghold".

>>32889330
Denmark is also looking for new artillery. Estonia also wants to buy K9s. Would be glorious

>>32899580
There is probably more Armatas then there is Oplots today. How many do Ukies have? Like less then 10.

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>>32894567

Page 2 : https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85T00757R000100080007-6.pdf

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has there been any news on that indonesian medium tank prototype?

Have there been any recorded instances of Syrian tanks using smoke grenades in response to ATGM attacks?

Given the number of engagements that involve multiple ATGM launches one would think smoke would be useful, although I could certainly see Syrian logistics simply not supplying the grenades.

>>32901843
I haven't seen a single tank using smoke now that you mention it. Has the Turkish Leopards used smoke in Syria?

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>>32878064
Supposedly this development was hastened by the experience in the war in Eastern Ukraine. The D-30 and 120mm Mortars although very mobile and having a quick placement and displacement time were still very venerable to counter battery. Something like this would greatly reduce that time.

pic semi related

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>>32888800

>>32901369
Ukraine is still producing them but they sell them all to Thailand. Even the 10 they had for their army. 3-4 layers of ERA isn't going to stop an arty round.

>>32899580
>T-72B3 wasn't fielded in Donbass

No, It actually it was.

Along with T-72B1, T-72MBs, T-80Us, T-90As, T-64BVs (Russian and Crimean). Russia sent everything short of the T-14

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>>32901986

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>>32878064

It's not a new idea.

Even pic related wasn't the first.

>>32899580
>T-72B3 wasn't fielded in Donbass
How can someone think or even say this by now? How deep you must have been stuck under a rock for years, not to have heard about it and looked into it? Is that the famous russian dementia about unpleasant stuff? Seriously, it is simply one of those obvious errors people cant stop coming up over and over again.

>>32899616
Must have been a older type of missile.

The BDD armor only add a extra 200mm against HEAT. But due to the angle of impact then it may have (both BDD and cast turret armor) provided greater LOS thickness then normal which in turn increase resistance against HEAT that the post penetration effect was greatly reduced or outright stopped.