How come no one ever uses shotguns to storm a building?

>>32764567
>Has the shotgun become an obsolete weapon for combat?
yes

>>32764567
>peng-clack-peng-clack-peng
>peng peng peng
>brrrrrrrrrrt brrrrrrrrrrrt brrrrrrrrrrt

>>32764567
Over penetration in walls and less penetration on body armor, less capacity, spread is a meme at close range, slow reload, high recoil.

Intermediate caliber carbines are the way of the future.

>>32764567
Cops wanna be operators really bad

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>>32764567
Your not going to get hardly any spread at 10ft to make it any more useful than a carbine or smg that can shoot full auto with 30 round mags, and with frangible ammo there isn't as high of a risk of over penetration compared to old fmj ammo

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>>32764586
I've never seen such a well constructed rebuttal involving only sounds. Bravo.

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>>32764567
>I thought shotguns in close range reign supreme?
They still do per shot vs unarmored targets. The problem today is that even the lightest kevlar vest can stop buckshot and carbines are no longer as expensive as they once were (before Obama was elected you could get 3-4 high quality pump action shotguns for the price of a decent AR, now you might be able to get two)

If you must shoot past a civilian to hit the perp, shotgun not so gud unless the civilian is my mother in law. In that case, call in TOT for a few hours to send her back to the anus of Satan which extruded her.

>>32764782
frangible ammo is only frangible when it hits something hard like steel. it goes right through people and walls like a fmj

>>32764793
>doesn't know what a rebuttal is

>>32764885
reply*. my bad

Are kevlar vests commonly used by suspects ? Wouldn't the sheer impact of a buckshot or a slug inflict trauma injury through the vest ?

>>32764586
>what is a auto/semi-auto shotgun

>>32764795
Wouldn't the shear energy from a slug or buckshot kill through a kevlar vest? How about ballistic plate armor?

>>32765004
>Wouldn't the shear energy from a slug or buckshot kill through a kevlar vest?
No, because guns aren't fucking death rays you tard.

>How about ballistic plate armor?
People have stayed standing after being hit in the plates with a .308, what makes you think spreading that energy out over a wider area will make any difference.

>>32765103
What I meant was death due to trauma not penetration you autistic fuck

>>32764795
>before Obama was elected you could get 3-4 high quality pump action shotguns for the price of a decent AR, now you might be able to get two

What is it that you consider a decent AR? Because you can have a completely functional one made of good parts for less than $1k.

>>32765267
>hit attacker in the chest with 8 pellets with about the energy of a .380 in a couple inch circle assuming you're standing less than 10 feet away
>thinking that will cause enough trauma to quickly disable someone, especially with higher rated kevlar vests that can safely stop a round of .44 magnum which has half the energy focused on one impact

>>32765267
Nigger you don't die when you shoot the shotgun, why would it magically gain an insane amount of energy when hitting someone.

>>32765004
>what is a auto/semi-auto shotgun
Likely the second one on his list

And also something with a fucking fraction of the magazine capacity of a carbine or SMG while simultaneously being a lot heavier

>>32764567
You mean from watching cops on tv. Fucks sakes millenials are dumb. Yes the 590 is still used by pointmen to break door hinges off. The benelli sre still in used today. The 590 is the go to gun for navy non special warfare ship crews.

>>32765477

This. Most shotguns are gonna have, what, 9 or 10 rounds in the tube? Unless you've got a Saiga with a fuckyuge awkward drum mag, you're better off with an AR or similar.

>>32765596
>The 590 is the go to gun for navy non special warfare ship crews.

because the wanna get ricocheted by their own ammo shooting around in steel buckets? dum ppl.

>>32765428
that's why you use foster slugs. nobody ever survived a foster slug. and even with IIIA armor, you'll be in bad shape.

>>32765705
>just turn your shotgun into a rifle with less capacity
That's fucking stupid. If you want a more powerful rifle then just go with something in .308.

>>32765705
If you're going to shoot single projectiles anyway (as opposed to buckshot), why not go with a rifle? You're gonna have a much easier time getting through body armor.

>>32764795
>before Obama was elected you could get 3-4 high quality pump action shotguns for the price of a decent AR, now you might be able to get two
A decent AR is cheaper than a 590a1 or 870 Police now. You can get an M&P Sport II for under $500, or build a basic-bitch M4gery for around $400.

>>32764914
No.

Also no.

>>32765004
>what is a auto/semi-auto shotgun
The first is extremely heavily restricted (despite what BLM wants you to believe, a very tiny portion of law enforcement have access to select fire weapons, even for their entry teams) and only made by a small few companies, and they have reliability issues out the ass as well as being prohibitively expensive for even letterhead purchases at the department scale.

The other still has exponentially more recoil and potential for collateral damage and exponentially less magazine capacity while offering nothing over a semi-auto carbine in an intermediate round.

And no, if a vest stops something generally the person wearing it is either completely uninjured or merely bruised.

>>32765597
8 at most with a 20" barrel. 7 at most with an 18.5" barrel.

This is the main reason your 3-gun specific shotguns have 22" or 24" barrels.

>>32765820
>despite what BLM wants you to believe, a very tiny portion of law enforcement have access to select fire weapons, even for their entry teams
wat

>>32765820
Man there's a website that shows what local police departments get from the government, my small town got a dozen surplus m16s

>>32765858
How many separate and distinct law enforcement agencies do you think there are in the US?

And what percentage of those do you think actually possess any number of select fire weapons?
>protip: It's less than 5%

>>32765904
There's over 250,000 separate law enforcement agencies in the US. That website lists less than 200. Add in a dozen federal agencies that all have them and the majority of your major metro PD's that have them and you're still under a thousand.

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>>32764567
>How come no one ever uses shotguns to storm a building?
Because Vepr and Saiga are under sanctions now.

>>32765915
How does BLM have anything to do with anything in this thread?

>>32765916
There are other semi auto shotties out there

>>32765953
I was using their cries of "cops gunning blacks down in the streets with machineguns" as an illustrative point that *despite popular beliefs*, the majority of cops don't have access to select-fire weapons.

>>32765953
what he really meant to say is that crowds of feral BLMelanites would be a great use for shotguns which although have a low magazine capacity would be able to effectively spread more projectiles into said crowd and faster

>>32764782
A slug will do extreme damage. I have seen first hand the aftermath..

>>32766094
and I doubt inner city niggers can get their muddy coon hands on body armor.

>>32765466
>being this stupid
You shouldn't die when shooting any gun, however put your head in front of the barrel and tell me you didn't die

>>32766100
Fuck yes it will. A full ounce of lead at 1600 feet/sec is no fucking joke.

>>32765705
No you won't.

Big bruise with soft armor at worst. Shotguns just don't work if body armor is involved unless you aim for unarmored body parts.

>>32766137
if I can buy plates without an ID check so can inner city superyouths

>>32764885
>>doesn't know what a rebuttal is
Fuck you, that was both a rebuttal and hilarious.

>>32764914
>Are kevlar vests commonly used by suspects ?
No but they would be if cops all used shotguns. And meeting one guy who kills you is one too many.

>>32770347
Loo what is back deformation 0/10>>32770347
Shitpost>>32770347

>>32765466
>Nigger you don't die when you shoot the shotgun, why would it magically gain an insane amount of energy when hitting someone.
To be fair, there are issues with area and the rate that the force is applied at.

>>32770395
>another dumbass that doesn't know what a rebuttal is

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>>32764567
In all circumstances shotguns were used in combat roles for far too long. They were pretty much rendered irrelevant during the same war that they were first widely fielded in. The idea of a "combat" shotgun is a holdover from trench warfare, but they are objectively worse than assault rifles for combat in every way.

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>>32770723
>>32770403
Yes but how cool is this. Also, hollowpoint slugs are basically elephant gun territory. Assuming soft armor (or rifle plate) can intercept the projectile, the target will still be knocked the fuck down.

>>32765820
>just bruises
Not true with soft armor

If you get hit while wearinng those you will break ribs

Steel I guess will stop the force though

>>32765966
No cops should have access to anything other than semi-automatics

They're never supposed to lay down suppressing fire or take on more than a target or 2 at once plus they get paid to train and make their ammo count

Wtf BAN POLICE AUTOMATICA NOW

>>32770357
Most deny sales to anyone that looks gang affiliated

100% allowed

>>32765953
>>32765966
Oh Doi, I was reading beuraeu of land management