Justify 580 Million Fucking Dollars

>>32761062
each gun is $550-ish. maybe they get a government discount and a bulk order one, but you know there's other costs involved. so i dunno 100,000 pistols or something probably

>>32761062
The fact that all the M9s in service are beat to shit and a replacement for them is desirable regardless of what replaces them?

>>32761062
Oh yes anon, they bought one pistol worth 580 million.

You fucking moron.

>>32761062
The M9s were falling apart and had to be replaced. $580 million over 20 years won't make a difference in a budget where the LCS cost $450 million apiece.

>>32761062
$580 million is nothing. It's a literal drop in the bucket.

The M9s had to be replaced due to wear and age. Why not upgrade to gun that will likely last even longer due to polymer frames.

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>>32761113

>>32761062

When compared to large projects like the F-35 and Gerald Ford-class aircraft carriers, the Modular Handgun System is a minuscule contribution to the U.S. Armed Forces' ability to wage war. However, that doesn't mean that it has no effect. There are many types of troops, including pilots, rear-echelon troops, field-grade officers, etc. that field a sidearm as their only means of self-protection. If the services were to fail in providing their own personnel with a sidearm, then they would still have to provide them with some other weapon.

Given that adopting the P320 is a cheaper, more convenient, and less logistically taxing alternative than just handing out more M4s, it seems like a reasonable option. Providing troops with an outdated, deteriorated weapon like the M9 is irresponsible, as is providing no weapon at all. Thus, paying for a new handgun is a perfectly reasonable solution.

>>32761113
You're fucking with me. Right?
>>32761085
There's no way every M9 in inventory is beat up beyond reason. Issue those to the folks that absolutely need them, tell everyone else to carry an extra rifle mag. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong.
>>32761138
I understand everything's relative. But $580 mil is $580 mil. There's NOWHERE else that money would be better spent in the military?

GEE WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG WHEN ENGAGING A TARGET IN A STRESSFUL SITUATION WITH THE FIRST ROUND BEING A 13 POUND TRIGGER PULL AND THE NEXT ROUND BEING A 5 POUND TRIGGER PULL I HAVE NO IDEA

>>32761239
I understand that not everyone carries a rifle. Why not issue just them sidearms? Cut down on the order size.

Then, if regular infantry units want they can request them.

You make a good point though. It just triggers my tisms when resources are diverted to unimportant shit.

>>32761242
WHAT ABOUT HAVING TO REPLACE THOSE SIDEARMS IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? I'M TYPING IN CAPS BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO NEGLECT THE FACT THAT WE WOULD STILL SPEND HALF A BILLION DOLLARS BUYING NEW M9S ON A RENEWED 20 YEAR CONTRACT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE REPLACED. THEY ARE OLD.

>>32761252
Calm yourself. Sperg.

How often are sidearms actually used in the military? The M9 is less than ideal. But it works.

For a weapon that has an extremely low chance of useage, and an extremely low impact on warfighting, "less than ideal, but works" sounds good enough to me.

>>32761242
It's a 20 year contract. You seem very well out of your element here. They are not going to up and throw all M9s in the trash. They are going to be phased out of service just like everything else in the military.

Lrn2militaryacquisitions

>>32761296
>main sidearm for MPs
>main sidearm for machine gunners if they're 15 year old open bolt gun goes down(which is a lot)
>up until pretty recently was still the main sidearm for Rangers and SF
>hurt durr how much use do they see?

>>32761252
There's a thumb safety there; presumably there's the option to ride cocked & locked.

How heavy is the M9 DA trigger pull?

>>32761337
On the M9, engaging the safety decocks the gun for some stupid reason. I have no idea if the military asked for that or if Beretta threw in the retardation for free.

Still, the anon complaining about DA/SA guns like it matters or is an actual problem is retarded. DA/SA is fine. A gun functioning like a SAO gun while having a worse trigger pull is less than ideal. Everything is less than ideal when everybody has different ideals.

>>32761308
>Out of my element.
That's why I'm asking questions. I appreciate the input.

>>32761323
Evidence? Or just what your brother's roomate's aunt's cousin who was totally a navy seal ranger said?

>>32761337
looked it up; according to vickers, the M9 has a similar weight on the DA trigger pull.
>a Beretta M9 with a double action first trigger pull of approx 13 lbs and a 5 lb single action trigger for each shot after

http://www.vickerstactical.com/trigger-pull-weight.html

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>>32761138

a literal drop in the bucket would actually be a drop of liquid inside of a bucket

tell ur mom i said hi, and apologize to ur dog 4 me

>>32761062
>580 million dollars
>for a one time purchase for pistols that will last more than 20 years
literal pottery

>>32761388
>engaging the safety decocks the gun

well that is most definitely stupid. If the Sig allows you to ride cocked & locked, I'd say that improvement is potentially worth the money on its own, lol. Consistent trigger pull on a DA/SA is one of the main reasons to use a thumb safety on a hammer-fired pistol in the first place. Otherwise, why not just go with a striker-fired pistol?

If the Army asked for that, I'll need an explanation to understand why, because I don't get it.

Glad I sold my lemon of a p320. Now that the military is going to use them expect SIG to be the new mall ninja brand.

It's chassis is a good idea. They have great triggers. I'm still just bitter I got such a none functioning pile of shit.

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>>32761062
OP just shut the fuck up and get ready for $200 surplus M9s.

>>32761808
>cmp
>handguns
They're going to the crusher you idiot

Why not just phase in M&P 9s as M9s are worn out and replaced?

Stop buying foreign pistols, fuck

>>32761815
CMP was on the cusp of delivering surplus 1911s to us until John McCain personally crushed it with a bill introduced this year.

You should keep up on the news instead of mudslinging.

http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/01/19/a-cmp-1911-update-from-cmp-chief-operating-officer-mark-johnson/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/is-uncle-sam-set-to-melt-civilian-marksmanship-program-1911-pistols/
http://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2016/06/16/senator-john-mccain-wants-destroy-govt-surplus-1911-pistols/

>>32761808
US mil cannot sell "weapons of war" to civilians after Clinton.

>>32761864
When is McCain going to come out as a Democrat?

>>32761870
literally no
>>32761864

>>32761957
Never. Cucks never do anything

>>32761252

Unquestionably the dumbest shit I've seen on /k today.

The problem isn't double action, the problem is you.

How many hundreds of thousands of cops and soldiers world wide since the P38 became a standard issue pistol have successfully dealt with a problem using a double action?

I'm not even a DA/SA fan, but I can still shoot any of my Sigs, FN, Beretta, and of course my revolvers with basic competency.

L2shoot

>>32761600

>expect SIG to be the new mall ninja brand.

I see you are unfamiliar with the "Legion" line of products, the made in China scopes and lights, and the quintillion "special editions" ranging from Scorpion to Gadsen Flag to muh anchor 226.

The Sig Sauer that made the best production handguns in the world died years ago.

>>32761861

Agreed

>>32761389

Milfag here, he's right on everything but the machinegunner part. Some do get them, but your chances of realistically engaging with a handgun in those types of situations aren't great. Rangers, MPs and some SF do/did use them, although a majority of SOF have been switching to other sidearms for like the past 10-12 years.

>>32761062
It's not just the price of the gun. You have to buy new training manuals, retrain the staff, replace spare parts/mags and every extra accessory that comes with it. There's a reason it's slow to replace shit, it's a ton of work and it means a slow roll out.

Routinely issuing sidearms is pointless.

That said, it isn't just a case of buying them and that's that. As has been outlined above, there's a lot more to procurement than that.

OP probably thinks we have already spent $1.5 trillion on F-35's.

>>32761083
each gun is 200ish dollarioos. consumer prices have absolutely nothing to do with bulk order prices.

>>32762200
OP here. Appreciate the info.

>>32762011
Yeah that's why I was ripping on em. I haven't been impressed with SIG in a while.

>>32762301
>Routinely issuing sidearms is pointless.
If you fight against someone like ISIS it is not.

>>32762568

Also, your Doc may or may not have one. At any rate, the big thing is that being downrange as a soldier/sailor/marine/airman/guardián is like you being in a bad city. For a huge numher of troops, the weapon is a paperweight, they are REMF FOBfuckers who only carry a weapon because they have to, and fenagling yourself a handgun is better than lugging a rifle. If you're in a line unit, remote FOB or OP/PB and you manage to fenagle a handgun then it pays to have a good one. Same goes for POGs who go forward in a non-offensive role (Intel, ComCam, brass penis types, truck drivers)

>>32761242
What, you'd rather have more gender neutral bathrooms installed? Gtfo

I would imagine they order more guns than are required to issue to each soldier, like say a million of them

1 million x $580 = $580 million

>>32762890
pretty sure they said they're paying around $200 per unit

>>32762890

There's way more than 1 million military members.

>>32761062
A 26% malfunction rate of the m9 for one.

>>32762831
Yes. My objections to the implementation of a new handgun means I want tranny bathrooms. Glad you're following my logic.

>>32763119
>26%
What in the fuck are you talking about?

>>32762578

Yeah, I was just dog piling with you.

Growing up, Sig was seen as the best handgun company in the world for Military and Police applications

>P230
>P225
>P226
>P229
>P220

Available in any color you want, as long as you wanted black.

Shame they fell apart. Still pretty good, but not half the company they were.

>>32763485


He means that the M9's in service really are that shitty. Around 1/4 of them aren't fit for combat.

I've run pistol quals for multiple units including my own and you'd be surprised.

We've been needing this, we've asked for this. We've had these guns since 1985, it's time for a change. The government coffers can accept this blow, I assure you. It will help pay for itself in the long run with utility, versatility, less rounds required for qualifications, and cheaper parts.

No offense, but if you're not part of this world, you're not so uniquely qualified to speculate on what we do. If we start killing civilians or raping peasants with great frequency, start bitching.

>>32761861
>P320
>foreign pistol
Nice meme.
Also maybe if s&w submitted a pistol that actually met the requirements it would have been adopted.

>>32761083
That would be $5800 per gun.

>>32763818
If I thought I was an authority on the topic I wouldnt make a thread asking for other's opinions, would I?

Many thanks for the input.

>>32761242
An extra rifle mag isn't a built in redundancy, it's just more ammo. A pistol is still useful if you fuck up or lose your rifle

>>32764312

No, bro, and I get that. On the other hand, you're coming in with half of these posts like you're outraged and you're telling us what is too much or too little.

The cost of my security clearance and one of its renewals can get enough of these handguns to outfit all who need them in a whole line company. Add in the number of clearances that a battalion S2 (thank god that isn't me) processes in a month and you've got a battalion allotment.

So it's not like it's the most catastrophic offense. Especially with new funding coming down the pipes. What we should hope for is a resurgence in the war effort so that we can start paying the bills again.

The M9 program was never as well-spun as it should have been. As it could have been. I can list for you a number of things that we could have done all along to make this easier and longer-lived. We didn't and now this is the cost. It's how we do business in the military, we get new toys, wear them out and then get the latest new toy.

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>>32764236
What, you don't think our nation's soldiers deserve the best? Really though, I guess he meant 1mil pistols.
Anyways, TFB posted an unconfirmed article saying they were $207 each, and the $580mil award for the overall contract also includes spares, holsters and accessories.

>>32761062

because it looks cool fag

we have infinite money and power we do whatever we want, kiddo

>>32761062
>But what impact does our issued sidearm have on our nation's ability to wage effective war?
>Fucking none, in my opinion. Definitely not one worth $580 mil.
Because the majority of M9s are so badly abused that they need to be replaced.

also the 580 million includes
the guns
the parts
the repairs
the training/retraining
etc

the 580 million is NOT only for the guns

>>32764797

>infinite money
>over 7 trillion in debt

Stay in school and off 4chan kid.

>>32764704
Gotcha. Good to hear from someone on the inside of the machine.

And I'll be sure to dial it back.

>>32765059

You flatter me. I'm inside the machine in the sense that I have a little bit more operational insight than most due to career field and training. Other than that...

I'm a retard like anything else wearing a uniform.

>>32761062
$580M over a ten year span.

The M9s weren't going to last forever, you know. They will gradually be replaced with P320s. One day the P320s will be replaced, and that will cost money too. Shocking.

>>32761062
It's good for the economy to manufacture these things dummy. Supplying the army is just a bonus.

>>32761083
They're paying like 240 each. So, yeah, bulk discount.

>>32761083
The gov is getting at the very least, 1 million guns for that contract

>>32765145
I didnt think you were jason bourne. Just beneficial to hear from someone with actual experience.

>>32765211
I understand. I think you miss my point.

>>32761242
We need to effectively collapse. Sell or otherwise liquidate our aging assets, get the fuck out of countries that have literally nothing to do with our national security, and just modernize. Spending money alone won't solve the problem

They'll probably make huge savings in repairs. If something breaks just buy a new trigger pack, handle or slide instead of a whole gun

>>32763757
>fell apart
what the fuck are you on about

>>32761808
The only way that would be worth the $200 would be to have a AMU/National Match/SCG M9 built from the slide and frame

>>32764312
>But what impact does our issued sidearm have on our nation's ability to wage effective war?
Fucking none, in my opinion. Definitely not one worth $580 mil.
>If I thought I was an authority on the topic I wouldnt make a thread asking for other's opinions, would I?

See how that may be an issue?

>>32764901
>Stay in school and off 4chan kid.
You realize that means that other nations trust OUR economy enough to let us burn up 7 trillion dollars right. Personal debt and national debt are wildly different. If you don't pay your car note or commit tax fraud someone will come calling. Wtf happens when the USs lenders want that back?

>>32761388
The military demanded that.

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>>32761113
while OP may be a faggot you are absolutely retarded. Faggotry can be fixed there is no cure however for the level of stupid you possess.

>>32765419

I like you, son. I'd buy you a beer.

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>>32766729

>>32766022
>may be an issue
I legitimately dont see how that's an issue.

>>32766948

You trynna fuck?