K2 Black Panther vs T-14 Armata

As long as the K2 is shooting at the turret of the T-14, and assuming the penetration of the new 125mm is "real"

Then, who hits first

>>32719455
Considering the T-14 barely even qualifies as a finished tank, the K2 by virtue of actually being a fully functional system.

These contests are so gay.

>>32719607

Mainly because people aren't knowledgeable enough, so they just go on fanboy-tier rants.

The K-2, because it's in service.

>>32719641
yes.
In armor the armor itself is not the deciding factor.
Personnel / Experience / Training
Maintenance
Armor

In that order.

>>32719455
Thw t14 doesnt even work lmao

>>32719455
The K2 because it doesn't break down on parade

So In WWII and thru the Cold War, Russia fucking loved tanks and had a shitload of them.

Now they can't even build more than 1 or 2 new ones. What happened? Are they switching over to air power? Are they just too poor? No tank designers? Are they depressed?

>>32719943
They're just poor. Hard to build tanks when you have to decide between drinking or burning your vodka for heat.

>>32719943
They're basically poor as fuck with an income comparable to New York (3rd highest state economy) on its own. Basically an "ooga booga there's niggers in the neighborhood won't you pay more taxes for extra security?" tier nation. Only relevant because of CNN. If they didn't have nukes the West would have fractured and turned them into an even shittier collection of ethnostates blocking China.

>>32719455
Whoever has air superiority

The K-2 is more likely to see and shoot first I imagine; russia isn't known for high quality FLIR ect. Also the K-2 has fancy stuff like radar.

>>32719943
The Soviet Union collapsed

>>32720122
idiot

I'd like to provide some of my knowledge on K2.

K2 originally used a heavily modified Mitsubishi engine, but due to corruption, it continued to fail and the stop-gap solution was to use a domestically built licensed copy of Leopard 2 engine.

Me and a friend of mine discussed comparisons between Korean K2 and Japanese Type-10. According to him, K2 is a weapon used mainly for open areas, while Type-10 is made for Urban use?

This is because K2 has longer barrel than Type-10 and because S. Koreans are still at war with the North, the K2 is said to have better armour?

Type-10 can be retrofitted with longer barrel to match K2 firepower, but there are no plans to do so at the moment. Type-10 uses modular armour, but what about K2?

Pardon me if anything I say is incorrect, but the conversation was long ago. This is all I can supply at the moment.

I would like to note that K1 is said to be no more than a copy of American XM1 Prototype. Thoughts?

>>32719980
>>32720027
So how does Russia get more money? Don't they have stuff to sell?

>>32719980
true soviet drinks vodka and then burns fattest comrade for heat

>>32719943

Russians were already poor in the past and will continue to be poor today. For decades, Russian MBTs used a common hull, it was the T-72 hull. The only thing that really changes is the turret. Stop-gap solutions include adding a fuck-ton of ERA and retrofitting modern equipment like night vision, stabilizers, EFC, better engine, etc etc.

The T-14 allowed the Russians to start fresh and truly push what they could do to the limits.

Kind of like how in PC Industry, AMD ditched Bulldozer~Excavator line and started fresh from scratch to create Zen line which pushed what AMD engineers could do.

Same thing for the Japanese. By the time Type-74 came out, it was obsolete tech. It went from MODS A through G, with E being the most common variant. F variant is mine clearing version and G is the most "advanced" with side skirts and expensive electronics. However, it was still a waste of resources and money because of lacklustre gun and armour.

This is why Japan scrapped the idea of improving Type-74 and moved out to Type-90. It was an overall improvement but it was also considered a failure because it was too heavy for defence use and "too big" for much of Japan's urban areas. Thus, it is the reason why much of the Type-90s are now used for either training or placed in open areas (like Hokkaido) to defend the mainland.

You might be asking, why are Russian and Chinese tanks so cheap compared to their Western counterparts? A colleague of mine told me the following:

Russia and China owns and maintain the factories that build their war hardware and equipment. Thus they control and maintain how employee salary, R&D, and factories are run. Meanwhile, Western counterparts contract 3rd parties to build their war hardware and equipment.

Example: Norinco is controlled by Chinese government, so Chinese government sets the prices.
Lockheed Martin is private, and America contracts Lockheed Martin to build war hardware and the company sets the prices.

You get the idea.

>>32720267

Oil. They sell Oil.

>>32719943
Russia is a fucking disgrace compared to its predecessor, it can barely handle running itself.

>>32720262
K2 uses modular armour too. So called Korean Special Armour Plate K2 ver.

>>32720267
Russia has plenty of resources. The issue is that the government and society are so corrupt that they cannot generate economic activity effectively. Much of the value that is created is siphoned into the pockets of those with connections, and remains isn't enough to sustain a powerful modern military.

>>32719943

Poor

The T-14 isn't a bad design; it's the turretless M1 prototype for all intents

A full up heavy turret and hull + compartmentalized ammo is probably a better fighting tank overall, but Russia doesn't seem to want to get into the 60-70 ton range.

T-14 is a good compromise.

K-2 is a very good tank. Arguably better than any Western European tank. T-14 is just a meme not even in full production yet.

>>32719455
>152mm gun vs pussy 120mm
I dunno you tell me?

>>32723588
>152mm gun

Russians wish Armata had this too.

>>32719795
there are 3 factors contributing to the success of a tank and they are:mobility,protection and firepower+personnel

>>32720267
oil prices are low.

>>32724098
And they are never getting better.

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>>32719795
i think the assumption is supposed to be the crews were almost exact copies of each other with the exception of their choice of tank.

>>32724129
Crew won't make a difference if the tactics are shit.

IE: Sending large tank formations, uncoordinated and without cover fire into a city, ala Grozny in First Chechen War.

>>32723397
The Democratic Republic Of Congo has 24 000 000 000 000$ of resources such as precious stone's and metal's yet its because of corrupt institutions,low infrastucture and a unproductive and stupid population that they can't use that mass wealth,however the reason Russia doesn't have money is because Russia is a fossil fuel exporter and because 2016 prices are so low they have to a lower their budget,so Russia has the 2nd most powerful millitary and the 5th largest spending of about 46 000 000 000$,now the reason for the war in Syria was to increase oil prices by creating tensions in the middle east,such as supporting al-assad.

>>32724152
War in Syria won't increase oil prices.

Oil prices are going down as a result of overproduction due to Iraq and Iran both restarting production after Wars/Sanctions. Combine this with Tar Oil from Canada and Shale Oil from US, and even the demand in India and China can't grow fast enough.

>All these military experts
waa h i wish ww3 happened so i can shoot as much amerisharts as i can

>>32724173
>ww3
>shoot

Lmao. The only ones you will be shooting are your own countrymen once the fallout sets in.

>>32724166
the reason of high oil prices is the increased oil production of the US,what Russia plan's to do is involve the West in another conflict increasing oil prices.

>>32719840
it never did amerifat

>>32723588

T-14 has a higher pressure 125mm and new autoloader for longer rods, which probably puts it in the ballpark of the newest 120mm APFSDS by realistic measures.

They won't go with 152mm. Too much money. Too much engineering. Too much tech needed that they now can't buy.

>>32724213
>the reason of high oil prices is the increased oil production of the US

Nope. Recent rise has to do primarily with +1M production surge in Iraq+Iran and Saudi market-share war with US Shale.

There is nothing Russian can do to raise oil prices short of cutting their own production.

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>>32724231
oh wait... what's this? a 152mm autoloader that russia most definitely can't engineer, produce or afford! kek at backward stupid russians that will never master superior american technique of negro with a lanyard

>>32724274
>what is the difference between tanks and artillery: the post

>>32724286

but russia couldn't even engineer 152mm autoloader in your previous temper tantrum! in your new hissy fit, armata suddenly needs howitzer cannon against decrepit dogshit like leopard and abrams

>>32724255
OK then aside from a good marketing trick what is the cause of the Russian intervention in Syria?

>>32724231
wouldn't it be feasible to just increase the pressure, strengthen the chamber and barrel a bit and dick around with the propellant? it's mostly sabot rounds so you don't have to concern yourself with higher projectile speeds wearing out your barrel. they could even ahve a polymer cover for the sabots to lessen the wear if the aluminium proves too ahrsh?

>>32724330
>Literally the only Russian ally in the region.
>The only Russian naval base abroad.
Indeed, why they intervened?

>>32724330
>OK then aside from a good marketing trick what is the cause of the Russian intervention in Syria?

to stop the pipeline fom the arabian penisula which was supposed to bring their oil directly to the EU, challenging russia's source of foreign currency. the whole scheme would have made the EU move closer to the sandniggers and left Russia struggling even more, which is what certain factions want.

>>32719795
>Personnel / Experience / Training
ROK probably has the edge
>Maintenance
ROK DEFINITELY has the edge
>Armor
Russia might be slightly better, not sure

>>32724330
Because it's Russia's ally, it's customer, and it's a strategic location you fucking stupid goon

>>32724508
By marketing trick it is meant as weapons sales,oh and Syria is NOT Russia's ally,they are a war partner like Iran,i agree that it's a strategic location and don't call me a stupid goon.

>>32719455
The one with the better crew

>>32724595
but you are a dumb motherfucker. using a trip makes you one automatically unless proven otherwise.

>>32724447
>ROK probably has the edge
Both use conscripts but Russia actually has contract soldiers that are experienced in actual tank warfare.

>ROK DEFINITELY has the edge
Debatable. Both tanks are chock-full of new components but I'd wager the Russians can do better on maint. since they switched specialist MOS to only contract soldiers, which afaik ROK didn't do.

>Russia might be slightly better, not sure
Definitely. The Koreans are good, but the Americans, Germans, and Russians have been at this for years.

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Daily remember that the K2 Black Panther has a pretty average acceleration of 10 seconds from 0 to 32 kph.


>>32720262
>I would like to note that K1 is said to be no more than a copy of American XM1 Prototype. Thoughts?


The K1 is basically the General Motors XM1 prototype fitted with a German powerpack and the M1 Abrams gunner's sight.

>>32719455
T-14 Armata Country of origin Russia

Crew 3 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 48 t
Length (gun forward) 10.8 m
Hull length ~ 8.7 m
Width 3.5 m
Height 3.3 m
Armament
Main gun 125-mm smoothbore
ATGW ?
Machine guns 1 x 7.62-mm
Elevation range ?
Traverse range 360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun 40 rounds
ATGW ?
Machine guns 2 000 rounds
Mobility
Engine A-82-2 diesel
Engine power 1 200 hp
Maximum road speed ~ 70 km/h
Range 500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope 40%
Vertical step ~ 0.8 m
Trench ~ 2.8 m
Fording ~ 1.2 m
Fording (with preparation) ? K2 Black Panter Crew 3 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight 55 t
Length 10 m
Hull length 7.5 m
Width 3.6 m
Height 2.5 m
Armament
Main gun 120-mm / L55 smoothbore
Machine guns 1 x 12.7-mm, 1 x 7.62-mm
Elevation range ?
Traverse range 360 degrees
Combat load
Main gun 40 rounds
Machine guns 3 200 x 12.7, 12 000 x 7.62
Mobility
Engine MTU MB-883 Ka500 diesel
Engine power 1 500 hp
Maximum road speed 70 km/h
Range 400 - 430 km
Maneuverability
Gradient 60%
Side slope 40%
Vertical step 1.3 m
Trench ~ 2.8 m
Fording 1.2 m
Fording with preparation 4.2 m

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>>32719943
>Now they can't even build more than 1 or 2 new ones.

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>>32724231
>They won't go with 152mm. Too much money. Too much engineering. Too much tech needed that they now can't buy.
Except they already did it.

>>32725487
>Site a vehicle that proves his point.

Slavs are truly their own worst enemy.

>>32719943
In the Cold War it wasn't Russia building tanks, it was the Soviet Union.

>>32725487
>Object 292
>Object
>did it
Sure.

>>32719455
Whoever shoots first, which will probably be the K2 because of the absurd electronics.