How far do you realistically need to engage enemies?

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city, a few blocks
plains, hundreds of yards

>>32695245

>Average range of engagement innasandbox
This varies extensively depending on what you're doing. Outside the wire on a foot patrol for a few days, checking shitty mud huts? Anywhere from 60-400yards depending on when the target engages you\when you put eyes on someone with a gun you know is an EC.

>Average range in civilian self defense
Again, varies, but most civilian self defense shootings take place inside a home, or in a store, etc. It's very much close quarters like, 90% of the time. So maybe count that one as like, 6-15 yards tops? Within 21 feet if you haven't engaged or shot, you're likely to be punched\stabbed before you can if they're coming at you.

>Average SHTF scenario?
There's no average SHTF scenario if you're in the US. Are we being invaded? Are their zombies? You may need to camp a roof with a Remington 700 and plink people, you may need to clear a building with a shotgun. Irrelevant question.

>Point to civilian training at distance shooting
Yes, mainly for hunting or if you're qualifying for marksman shooting.

>Engaging multiple hostiles at once

Do not do this. Unless you absolutely have to, avoid engaging a force with superior numbers to your own (one of you, three of them for example) if armed. If you absolutely cannot find a way around, or the conflict is forced, find cover (not concealment) and do your best to work down one at a time with as much distance between you and them as possible.

>Civilian engagements = up close, military = further distances?

Generally yes - Civilian defense shooting is just that, defense. You're not in a warzone, you're not cleared to just blast some kid from 300 yards out because they /could/ be threatening. Civilian shooting is mainly defensive/reactive.

With the military, you get your ROE and that usually tells you the kind of A/O you're going to be in: mixed\hostile\friendly-alert, etc. If hostile, you're usually given reign to engage if fired upon or when told weapons free during ops.

>>32695469
Thank you. This was what I was looking for.

So knowing this, would the best weapons to purchase as civilian for defense be a shotgun and a pistol? Possibly a 9mm AR carbine if you wanted to run something a bit fancier?

I have no problem with people owning crazy expensive SCARs, gucci'd out AR's, and what ever else you want to spend 3K+ on, because it's your money and your right to own what ever gun you want and can legally carry in your state. But for p[practical purposes, what are the best 2-5 guns to own in your home and train on for self defense/practical dangerous situations?

I mean SHTF (zombies, invasion, etc) would warrant a nice AR/AK, but I am speaking in practical terms. Or is an nice AR/AK good for self defense?

>>32695562
Defense?
1. full sized pistol of your choosing
2. summer carry pistol of your choosing
3. winter carry pistol of your choosing (can even be the same as option 1)
4. modern sporting rifle (AR, AK, whatever)

Semi auto rifle is ideal for home defense, because you are probably going to miss a lot. You will probably need the capacity and rifles are much better at stopping attackers than anything else.
The handguns are for backup type situations for when you can't get to your rifle.

A shotgun is not nearly as good as people make them out to be. They do not spread as much as people think they do, nor do they have the high capacity advantage. The one thing that shotguns do really well is killing things without body armor.
>insert futureweapons "ONE HIT FROM THIS... AND IT'S ALL OVER"

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>>32695618
>"ONE HIT FROM THIS... AND IT'S ALL OVER"
Cancer?

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>>32695671
d-delete this

>>32695618
So If i have a budget of $2k for a full sized pistol, a carry pistol, and a AR, what would be my best bet?

This does not include ammo and I would probably pick up a cheap Mavrick 88 (outside of the budget) just because I want a shotgun.

>>32695729
Quality carry pistol and quality AR. Full sized can wait.

>>32695671
I did not want this feel.

>>32695729
*DISCLAIMER* you are going to start the shitposting wars that will come. Everyone and their mother has a different opinion on the handguns.

I would chose a Glock 19, Glock 43, and then start building an AR with the leftover money.

>>32695808
>>32695761
Yeah I don't really see the point to a full sized pistol. Can anyone explain the benefit of a full sized pistol over a nice CCW pistol? Seems like you would want a nice small pistol on you at all times rather than a big heavy pistol.

>>32695245
150 yards, give or take. You see the thing is hadjis can't shoot. So they typically engage you much closer than you'd probably engage them.

Or a fucking sniper you have no idea where he is but he pins your squad down for a half a day.

>>32695850
Service pistol, open carrying and home defense.

>>32695850
Adding on to what I said. What is a nice AR you can make for $1500 and a nice small pistol for $500?

>>32695868
I can shoot and I'd engage enemies at 150 yards, give or take, closer preferably. Too close to easily retreat, yet too far to simply move up and assault. Get a good, united opening of fire and half the enemy group's a casualty as soon as the firefight starts.

>>32695873
Yeah, I don't want to open carry and I am not in law enforcement or military, so a full sized pistol does not really make sense to me. I want something small, practical, but still can deal out some hurt.

>>32695907
Home defense is your best argument then, but that'd depend on what your home is like and who you're expecting to fight. A pistol is a lot more maneuverable and concealable for corners than an AR.

>>32695884
Get a Colt LE6920. They run about $1000 and you can invest in an optic. I wouldn't put my life on the first AR I built. But that's my opinion.

>>32695884
You can get a bad ass BCM upper and build whatever lower your heart desires for 1500.

>>32695850
>More ammo capacity without the standard capacity magazines sticking out like a sore thumb.
>Weight can help control recoil and flash
>Longer barrel, means better ballistic coefficient for the bullet.
Now the wuestion remains: Home defense or carrying in the public?

>>32695929
>Colt LE6920
That gun looks nice. What is some nice glass to put on it for $500ish?

Acog for mid/closer range?

>>32695962
Both. Want to carry and use as home defense if possible. Or is it best to get two pistols?

>>32695966
For close quarters, EOTech, or the new vortex holographic sight.
For intermediate range, Vortex Strike Eagle.
I wouldn't put a long range glass scope on it.
ACOGs cost about $1500

>>32696083
Damn, that's pricey. Thanks for the recommendations.

>>32695562
>shotgun
No.

Intermediate caliber self loading rifle or handgun.

>>32695729
Get more money or just get a compact handgun and forget the full size.

>>32696141
This is what I am leaning towards. Small handgun and an AR build for around $2k

What are the odds that gun prices not necessarily ammo, but the guns themselves will drop in price with Trump in office? How soon? Will it be significant enough to want to wait? Also silencers not needing tax stamps etc? Is that happening realistically?

>>32695980
With a budget of 2k you're open to a lot of options.
Get a nice cc piece, it'll work just as well in your home as it will on the streets.
The difference in muzzle flash and loudness is irrelevant because even a full size is going to fuck your shit up.
Price will be around 500-600.
Whatever is left you can build an ar for good quality. Even if it's a complete upper and lower you'll be saving money.

>>32696199
No and hell no.

>>32696237
Explain?

>>32696083
>EOTech
no thanks

>>32696199
Guns? Not likely. They didn't really see a spike in price due to fear. It was a drying cache of milsurp that's caused increased prices. Ar15 had only become more accessible and affordable to buy. Maybe the wonton flash deal from a prepper needing to pay bills and needs fast cash could be a cheap gun deal. But there's no reason to wait really.

Silencers, I'd say 50/50 coming off would result in a short time price sky rocket as manufacturers don't have enough supply for demand, but then would plummet as every guy with a mill starts turning them out. In personally waiting for it to come off and giving it a few months for new manufacturers to undercut the current producers.

>>32696246
Gun prices will not drop for no reason, they just won't rise. Slavshit will dropnif import bans end (they won't) and that's all.
HPA is not going to pass, hughes amendment won't be repealed, and the ATF will not be disbanded. Wishful thinking to the max.

>>32696290
Fair enough. Thanks. What is a recommendation on getting a good .22?
Really leaning towards a 10/22 for some cheap plinking. Will .22lr ever get back to .05/.06 cents?

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With a budget of 2k get an AR15 from a reputable manufacturer (FN, Colt, BCM, etc), a Glock 19, Aimpoint of some sort for the AR, and a high quality holster for the G19. Also buy good mags, OEM for Glock and PMAG/Lancer/good USGI for the AR

>>32696083
>build psa pistol
>spend rest on acog
>conceal under fedora and trench coat for ultimate cc
>ultimate home defense sbr because ain't Jamal gunna tell you shouldered it in your house after you mag dump your magpul^tm D-60 in to his leg, attempting to get a non lethal shot.

>>32696337
Well we were having a reasonable discussion...

>>32696319
The one your grandpa gives you

Really it's a plinking rifle. Get one at a pawn shop if you want to enjoy yourself. 10/22 is highly recommended. If you're going into competitive shooting with 22 then you probably wouldn't be asking /k/

I don't see the round getting that low. Inflation is a thing to remember as well. Maybe, but again I can see preppers/hoarders or their kids selling off dead crazy uncles mountains of ammo for cheap, but those will be pretty exclusive and isolated events

>>32696393
Noted. What is the most .22lr hoarded that you have heard of. My uncle has 12,000 rounds which seems pretty reasonable.

>>32695562
Couple other people got to this before I could, but my general advice is to start with the three basics:

Combat rifle (.308, 5.56 or 7.6x39)
Semi-auto handgun (9mm, .40, 45 - Wouldn't bother going lower)
Shotgun (12ga, no reason to go lower)

Find what works for you out of each of those, buy one of each, and drill with it until it's intimately familiar.

Another thing to touch on here if you're concerned about suddenly having to feed three guns three different ammo typed, pistol-caliber carbines are a fair trade. Things like the Scorpion Evo, Sig MPX and KRISS Vector all share a common 9mm round, which allows you to share ammo between guns.

Sharing a cartridge between different platforms is sometimes very valuable in both cost savings, and practical defense, as you're not having to carry multiple mags of multiple calibers around, which tends to get heavy.

For example, my basic set up, should I knowingly need to gtfo for whatever reason, is as follows:

Vector 9mm carbine - This takes Glock mags, which I have plenty of.
Glock 19 9mm - As noted above, I have plenty of mags and ammo, so I can share between them as needed.
Mossberg 500C shotgun - 12ga - Explains itself. This isn't classified as "rifle" or "Shotgun" - Instead the ATF deems this "AOW" or "Any Other Weapon" allowing a legal short barrel, pistol grip shotgun.

That said, the set up above is expensive and it took a few years for me to acquire all that shit. To start with? I'd say an AK - Guns are very much a "You get what you pay for" scenario, so don't skimp out.

No high points, no Kel-Teks (some exceptions) etc.

Pick up a WASR or a Molot produced 7.6x39 AK - Ammo is cheap and abundant, plenty of mags, and you won't break the bank feeding it.

Following that, pick up a shot gun of some kind, one that you can handle and enjoy - Personal choice, shotguns don't tend to be overly expensive.

And then pick up a common round hand gun, which can vary greatly in price and personal pref.

>>32695245
That depends so much on what your terrain is it's pointless to ask in general.

If you're in the tundra of Siberia, or the plains in Wyoming? The military will be wanting to engage at upwards of a thousand yards, and in SHTF you might be able to identify known looters or gangs from 500+ yards away.

If you're in the dense forest or swamp? You're not likely to have any engagements over 100 yards, military or shtf.

Only in exceptionally weird circumstances would you ever need to engage at any range for non-shtf, us legal civilian self defense. Maybe if you'd run innawoods from an armed criminal, and he was hunting for you--that's the only scenario I can think of.

It makes sense if you're a prepper and you're in a very flat or open area, but that's the only time. Other than that, there's no practical value for a civilian training on killing at long range. Of course, precision shooting is fun anyway and I encourage doing it, but there's not much civilian purpose for it except big game hunting in flat areas.

>>32696083
the primary arms 1-6x24 is basically the same thing as the vortex strike eagle and is some dollars cheaper

the internet says that they are made in the same factory in china, but of course many times the internet is full of shit

what you get with the strike eagle tho is a better warranty

>>32695562
Totally depends

I believe every man should Have the following

A CC pistol
Full size (combat) pistol w/ light
12G pump shotgun(or semi) w/ light
Semi auto carbine in .223,7.62, or 5.45 w/ light and optic
Bolt/Semi .308

That can deal with basically any defense situation. that said, I plan on buying an extra .223 and shotgun for my girlfriend/roommate in the event of a shtf situation

>>32695305

Where is this wonderful countryside?