How do we fix NATO?

Russia is already working on it.

File: kirby pissed.jpg (18KB, 476x357px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 476x357px

>>32670017
>Canada, a founding member only spends 1%
>Greece, a country that's in-dept to fucking everyone spends 2.4%

America please liberate us, I cant stand this stupidity.

>>32670141
Europeans are too used to being protected by america.

>>32670141
>percentage of GDP
>Grease GDP = 0

>luxembourg
>belgium
>canada
>all those other rich countries

what's their fucking excuse? then there's iceland which literally has no military

>>32670017
Disband it

>>32670141
We need to quit giving Alberta oil money to other provinces and give it to the Military. We also need High School recruitment programs.

I'm curious if Estonians are ok with 2.2% of their GDP going to NATO, I mean no offense when I say this but Estonia is not a very rich country.

It really irritates me as a Canadian that we don't even come close to the minimum spending. We spend all of our tax dollars on refugees foreign aid and social programs and now we can't even defend ourselves. Fuck me.

>>32670360
Come on, it's 2017

>>32670017
Kick out the cheapskates and invite Russia to join :^)

>>32670337
Better to spend that much and be kinda second world than not be in NATO at all and subsequently get locked into a Russian rape dungeon for another 40 or 50 years.

>>32670391
US/Russia alliance would be OP as fuck.

>>32670017
People call it obsolete yet at the same time claim that countries should be beholden in maintaining a level of spending equal to that during one of the most tense periods in modern history. What kind of logic is that?

>>32670396
So with NATO there's a chance god hasn't abandoned Estonians like so many times before?

>>32670017
Pull out.

File: Constantinople.jpg (34KB, 600x300px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 600x300px

>>32670407
Hey now. Don't dismiss the aid of Greece, the UK, Estonia, and Poland. They're helping.

>>32670017
Simple, keep the countries that spend 2% or more and all the other countries can go get fucked, NATO will be reorganised as a military alliance between the United States, United Kingdom, Greece, Poland and Estonia.

File: 145301519760.jpg (356KB, 2000x1324px) Image search: [Google]

356KB, 2000x1324px

>>32670017
The fact that Greece is at the top of that chart is a little disturbing to me.


Also, CANADA WHAT THE FUCK?!

>>32670445
It's better than being in no alliance at all. Truthfully, if Russia for some damn fool reason actually makes an issue out of the Baltics, it's questionable whether the US (and let's be honest, it's the only NATO member that actually matters) would risk escalating up to a nuclear exchange over them. But again, better than nothing and getting eaten without a care.

>>32670141
>spending money on defense when America will just do it for you
lol

>>32670337
It's not 2.2% of their GDP "going to NATO," that's general defense spending.

>>32670494
Greece is next to Turkey, who they despise, and if you've been paying attention for the last decade or so its pretty clear that they don't know how to manage their cash.

Canada is surrounded by the US air force and navy and faces no real threats. Its not ok, but its not exactly surprising either.

>>32670500
>the only NATO member that actually matters

Don't forget Poland.

>>32670337
Everything better that being under Russian rule again.
Estonia is wealthy only because we literally sell our country to Sweden. And as long as Sweden and other Nordic countries invest in our economy we gonna be fine.
Much more important issue that Estonian youth leaving country and not planning to return. It curse of all Baltics.

>>32670546
And Finland. Don't forget, finnish MLRS can easily hit Saint Petersburg, second largest Russian city.

>>32670500
Russia isn't stupid enough to go nuclear over Estonia.

Most likely they'll try to sneaky breeki with "Opressed Russian Minorities" in the east of Estonia and try to hold rigged elections.

In that case, NATO needs to step in ASAP and arrest all the little green men and fifth column before they get to do anything.

>>32670017

Luxembourg needs to get it together

>>32670540
Huh? But Turkey is also in NATO. What kind of military alliance is that, then one member build up against another member?

>>32670551
T. Vatnik

>>32670017
>UK, France & Germany combined have 1200 MBTs
>Poland has 1000
explain this

>>32670540
Canada is like the most privileged country on earth.

>oh big brother USA will protect me.
>i guess i don't need this military anymore.

>>32670591
It's complicated. NATO wanted both Turkey and Greece as members so they could control the Bosporus+Aegean and lock the Russians in the Black Sea.

However, the extremely poor relations between Greece and Turkey could not be sorted out, so both countries were admitted together in 1952, since new members need to be unanimously approved by the member states, but Greece and Turkey would veto each other's membership if any one of them joined first.

>>32670484
So basically the US protecting them only

File: 2ec.png (497KB, 600x580px) Image search: [Google]

497KB, 600x580px

>>32670017
>they do it for free
T-thanks for the help so the government can keep paying me sweet bennies.

>>32670551
>Everything better that being under Russian rule again.

They made domestic abuse a misdemeanor, Russia is a parody of itself. Also there is a huge difference between Soviet rule and modern Russian rule.

>>32670494
and the funny thing is that they do that with money from other countries.

File: 1382662720876.jpg (52KB, 419x249px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 419x249px

>>32670568
>finnish MLRS can easily hit Saint Petersburg, second largest Russian city.

Second siege when?

>>32670613
Danzig ist Polnisch

>>32670617
But when they do make something its pretty fun

>>32670407
>implying Russia wouldn't be the worst ally in the history of ever

>>32670017
glorious Polska

File: stimpysmug.jpg (9KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

9KB, 200x200px

>>32670017
>Greek GDP

that's rich.

>>32670613
probably leftover Soviet mentality of MORE IS BETTER

File: real nato.png (341KB, 450x450px) Image search: [Google]

341KB, 450x450px

>>32670283
>We also need High School recruitment programs

We have that in the form of a co-op program, I did it 7 years ago. You do BMQ/SQ, get 4 credits, and get paid damn good. And if you stay enlisted after finishing you get put on your trade course.

>>32670017
Czechia is increasing the number now, but you need to do it slowly otherwise you just throw money away

>>32670494
Canada doesn't spend much (lol liberals) because the US is the biggest deterrent to invasion.

>>32670017
>all those poor ass countries trying their best to match the 2% while rich kikes like Luxembourg and Belgium don't even go up to 1%
This is not okay.

File: Canadian Carrier groupe.jpg (205KB, 900x635px) Image search: [Google]

205KB, 900x635px

>>32670617
That's until an actual war happens, then we go full retard with our military for some reason.

>tfw we used to have carriers and proper sized military...

>>32670973
Canada had the 3rd biggest navy during WW2, gotta get those loafs of bread to the UK somehow...

>>32670995
Then again it was bolstered by emergency conversions of civilian ships.

>>32670017
How come Serbias not in NATO, I'd rather have them then albanian and croat subhumans

>>32671010
Those German torpedo's needed some sort of fodder, might as well use the junkers.

>>32671058
They guarded ports and patroled coastal areas for U-boats. They looked for every destroyer, frigate, and corvette that they could get from the RN or USN.

>>32670891
apparently 1/3 is Leo 2's and the rest is T72s

File: QWGOHLG.jpg (461KB, 1800x1200px) Image search: [Google]

461KB, 1800x1200px

Well numbers don't say everything, countries like Poland and Greece (both more than 2% GDP defense spending) are mostly spending it for measures to defend their own country, while a country like Belgium (0.9% GDP defense spending) actively bombs IS in Iraq/Syria, sends F-16s for the NATO Baltic air-policing mission and contributes frigates and minehunters for NATO maritime/mine-countermeasure groups. Who contributes more to NATO? I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

Also the anti-NATO sentiment is worrying desu. The Western world benefits greatly from the most comprehensive and biggest military alliance the world has ever seen. It has its flaws, but nothing that can't be fixed. Most (if not all) European countries are increasing their defense budget, although it will take some time before we see the effects.

>>32670017
>MUH 2 %

Percentage isn't everything. Take the turkshits, they are still the second largest military in NATO after the USA. Sure they're turkshit and are currently getting buttfucked by isis goatfuckers in Syria, and sure their wages are way lower than those from another country, however last time I checked they are richer than Greece. Yet according to this graph they spend less on defense relatively.
Yet they do have more soldiers, more tanks, and even more fighter jets, and are modernising their forces very fast.

Don't give me quality versus quantity, percentage of GDP do not mean anything regarding military capabilities.
However a particular type of weapon, especially bought from oversea, will still cost the same. That's when looking at the amount of money spent on defense by a country is relevant.

This graph is merely suggesting some countries should spend more for the sake of it. Meanwhile, ruinous foreign politics involving a retarded amount of warmongering only made the US poorer.

What's the logic behind all of this ?

The 2% bar is as ludicrous today as the 3% was during the cold war. Every country is running after cheaper weapons, more durable gear and affordable vehicles. Why is that do you think ? Because they want bang for bucks. In the near future it is very possible a country spending 1.5% of its GDP in defense will fare as well as it was 10 years ago while spending 2.5%.

Niccolo Macchiavelli used to say :
>the victory remained with him who held the sinews of war to consist, not in money, but in good soldiers.
Titus Livius, chapter 10

Really makes me think.

Oh also, NATO can't be fixed and won't be.

>>32670617
And their citizens have the nerve to constantly talk shit about the US on top of it. What the fuck?

Disband it.
Make US/RU alliance.
Absorb most of Asia and South America.
Annex the rest of Asia and South America.
Annex Canada and the former Soviet Union.
Annex Europe and Africa.
Rename planet NATO.

Fix'd.

File: Fo1_Intro_Canadian_Freedom_Fighter.png (1003KB, 1280x948px) Image search: [Google]

1003KB, 1280x948px

>>32671722
>Annex Canada

I'm down

>>32670017
>dismantle NATO
>push the eurocucks off the freedom train and let them fend for themselves like they ought to

>>32670613

UK, France and Germany have good, solid, western developed tanks.

Poland has some, but it mostly has T-72s. It also has very little navy to fund with its budget, which obviously the other three spend a bit of money on.

>>32671500

> In the near future it is very possible a country spending 1.5% of its GDP in defense will fare as well as it was 10 years ago while spending 2.5%.

This is a completely fucking stupid way to try and justify spending less, because it assumes that your potential foes aren't also upgrading their abilities.

>>32670860
our army is shit
3/4 of it are officers and paper pushers
also
recenly our MoD was in talk show, topic was gun rights
since MoD wants to create militia host told him that it would be good thing to make it easier to buy guns
our MoD was like "nah you're just brainwashed by GUN LOBBY"

>le America pays for Europe's defense meme

If the US pulls out of NATO you guys wouldn't spend a penny less on defense. No, you'd spend ever more because you'd lose tons of strategic bases, direct supply lines and your most trustworthy allies.

Also it's funny how no one mentions the US government is literally giving billions of aid and equipment to the jews for free. At least NATO gives something back in return, kek

We kick Turkey out.

>>32670568
>Finland
>NATO

>>32670337
i mean, more of your money would go to defense if you pulled out of nato so I don't get what you mean?

do you think countries dont need self defense because it's the year 2017 and USA will protect everyone or what?

>>32671033
Serbs and Russians are bff

File: 1484603206978.png (721KB, 830x987px) Image search: [Google]

721KB, 830x987px

>>32670209

kek

File: d895671862611c3e069088ce71c8ad63f049f61bda1c660d78ff1432e384163b.png (174KB, 380x457px) Image search: [Google]

174KB, 380x457px

>>32670637
>It's a "Retarded shit we did in the cold war to thwart those damn commies that has had lasting ramifications that haunt us to the present day episode"

What needs fixing NATO is a key part of the last 70 years of peace and stability.

Why is Trump trying to destroy our allies and trade partners to suck up to an enemy which offers us nothing?

>>32673412
Alliances are a two-way street bub. What has Estonia done for us recently? How about Luxumbourg?

If they aren't going to pull their weight, i.e. spend 2% GDP on their military, why should we help them?

File: Русский герб (HQ).jpg (1MB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1680x1050px

>>32670818
>implying we haven't already had an alliance with Russia in which they valiantly suffered the most casualties of any country in any war in the history of the world

>>32673480
Estonia is a trade partner and sent troops to both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Peace and trade is beneficial to us, as is the ability to project military force around the world through our allies and bases in their countries, it isnt complicated

>>32673768
NATO has nothing to do with trade.

They also only sent 150 troops to Iraq. Fucking nothing, even considering how small they are.

>>32673841
>NATO has nothing to do with trade

It is hard to trade with a country if you are at war with them or if that country is being fucked up by invaders.

How dense are you?

>>32673867
Why would we be at war with Estonia?

And if they're worried about invaders, maybe they should spend 2% GDP on their military like the NATO charter says they have to.

>>32673096
They don't haunt us, but they vex the Russians.

They're trying like crazy to get Greece and Turkey to be their friend, but Erdogan personally hates Putin and the Greeks are more or less useless. The real prize isn't the Bosphorus, it's the shady banking sector of Cyprus that Moscow uses to launder cash coming in and out of the country.

>>32670017
step 1 Pay your fucking 2%
Step 2 Pay extra for all the years countries didn't pay their fucking 2%
Step 3, I dunno take part in more EU and NATO deployments.

File: 1466289336192.jpg (18KB, 261x260px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 261x260px

>>32673841
>what have they done for us
>get shit on
>BUT ITS NOT ENOUGH!!!!

No, fuck you and everyone like you. You're the reason why people roll their eyes at us overseas. You're a weak and fickle shit and I'm tired of your infantile whining.

Shut the fuck up and realize NATO is more about bases, staging grounds, and denying territory to the Russians than it is about having vassals. The last thing we need is a strong and independent Europe to counteract our weight in the world. The last thing we need is for people around the world to think they can't rely on us, to start cutting us out of the loop, and start building up their own armed forces.

>>32673902
Estonia does pay 2% though

>>32672160

>US allows RU to dominate Europe while improving relations and forming their own alliance
>US gets the exact same benefits from old NATO as new alliance
>Russia can protect itself without US spending
>new NATO is now specifically designed to cuck Chyna

We don't need Europe if we are friends with Russia.

>>32674134

You need to realize that there is no reason for the US to be in everyone's shit constantly.

I don't want to fight stupid wars anymore. I don't want my kids to fight the same goddamn wars my father and I fought in.

>>32675608
>friends with Russia.

Why the fuck would you even want that?

>>32675752

>can defend themselves
>has oil and gas
>if they take over yorup we will have the same benefits as being friends with them without having to defend them.

>>32670017
tell Canada it cant coast on daddy England and big brother USA anymore.

>>32675650
you aren't even in the military nor do you know anybody in it.

most guys who joined in wartime want more wartime regardless of their nationality

murricans
brits
aussies
kiwis
germans
french

it doesn't fucking matter. not all people want a peace time

>>32675864

You got me. All I want to do is die in the sandbox.

Maybe if you are a 22 y/o who just EASed or are a 30-something fuck up with no family who peaked while in trashcanistan.

People who actually grew up after time in the sandbox don't want to go back.

>>32675907
then get the fuck out and get a job outside of the military

>>32670017
Boot random Eastern European countries. Either provide positive reinforcement for countries that meet spending, or negative reinforcement for those that do not. Alternatively, reassess the minimum percentage, since 2% might be unrealistically high in the current climate.

>>32675920

I.. did? Are you retarded?

>>32673766
>implying that wasnt just an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" case instead of a legitimate partnership like we have with some others.


If we had a true US/RF alliance like we do with the UK, with similar trust and mutual work, and we decided to go full retard, then GG rest of the Earth, no re.

>>32675951
>implying there's such a thing as an alliance with Russians

You can either be their servant or their enemy. Those are the two options. Choose wisely.

>>32675937
>boot eastern yuros
why when theyre the ones who actually give a shit about defense spending. Russia is a feasible threat for Czechs, Poles, Baltics and Hungarians. Kick out fuckwits like Germany who keep selling their shit

>>32675836
They're losers. Small economy, low density population that's aging, crumbling infrastructure, rusty armed forces.

>>32675965

hence why i said "if".

its a big "if".

>ITT: RETARDS
you kids need to go to bed
I have yet to see a single factually accurate post in this thread.

>>32673766
its their fault for valiantly thinking mass waves are feasible tactics

[valiantly shoots retreating soldiers]

>>32675977

They don't expect big brother do do everything for them. If we gave Russia half of the aid we've given Europe, it would be impossible for Euros to compete. Literally the only reason why Europe isn't a shit hole is because the US spent the equivalent of trillions in aid and infrastructure development after WWII.

We did the same with Japan and the Sorks, but at least they aren't backstabbing cunts.

>Europe sandbagging as hard as possible while shit talking the only deterrence they have (US)
>Japan trying their hardest to change their fucking CONSTITUTION to be able to pull their weight better

New SEATO when?

>>32675992

t. Faggot

File: confused shepard.jpg (108KB, 600x535px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 600x535px

>>32670973
I'll never understand our countries logic when it comes to military procurement.

>war time? BUY EVERYTHING!!! PURGE EVERYTHING!!!
>peace time? lol we don't need a standing army, big brother America will protect us

>>32675978
You see, in order to find out if this can happen, you need to do some things first.

Some things you can't really take back.

And gambling on Russia to act civilized is a very long shot.

>>32675992
>>32676072

Eat my ass, both of you

>>32676049
>Literally the only reason why Europe isn't a shit hole is because the US spent the equivalent of trillions

Europe would've recovered either way, and the primary reason we dumped money on Europe was to limit Soviet influence in the worst hit parts of Europe.

Also it still doesn't make sense to partner up with a total shit hole despite the fact that we share no common interests save fighting terrorism.

>>32676049
>implying the US hasn't poured more money into Iraq and Afghanistan, only to have it all disappear because those countries are cesspools of corruption
>implying Russia isn't also a cesspool of corruption

>>32676106
>Russia to act civilized

They're trying to decriminalize domestic abuse.

File: The Few, the Proud.png (433KB, 2000x1529px) Image search: [Google]

433KB, 2000x1529px

>>32670017

>>32676131

The US recovery plan of postwar Europe dwarfs anything the US has done in recent memory.

>>32671033
Because NATO bombed Serbs in old times

>>32675966
Putting the US in a position where it either has to go to war over the sovereignty of nations bordering Russia or choose not to intervene on their behalf and reduce confidence in NATO as a defense organization does not improve American national security.

>>32671033
1: Serbs and Russians are long time ally and see each other as brothers in separate lands.

2: NATO fought against the Serbs do you not know this.

Why would they join NATO they stand for most things Europe and America are against and have way more in common with Russia. You can't hate Russia then think the Serbs should be on your team which is why they will never join NATO and would probably even actively go against them again and I don't blame them.

>>32676506
we hate the vatniks you fuckwit

t. Serb

>>32673766
>they valiantly suffered the most casualties of any country in any war in the history of the world

Our alliance with Russia began during the Mongol Invasions?

File: 145834614416745.jpg (80KB, 1200x675px) Image search: [Google]

80KB, 1200x675px

>>32670017
Call us.

>>32670494
Greece is at war with Turkey.

Same way you fix every other overbloated, ineffective, purposeless bureaucracy. Terminate and replace.

>>32677164
>bureaucracy
>fix

>>32670568
Since when have we been in NATO and why wasn't I informed?

>>32676879

Greece has been cock blocking Turkish entry into the EU for years, it's great

>>32670472
This. There TRYING. And pooled together there not insignificant. The cheapskates can get tucked.

all the european country will raise their spending in the near future.

They know they are going to be the first to get fucked if Russia attack. NATO spending has only fallen in the past 30 years because the Soviet Union broke up.

The unreliable country is actually the US since, they are not the country in immediate trouble in a non-nuke war against russia.

>>32670017
It's obsolete and a glorified form of welfare for Yuropoors. Disband it.

>if russia and us teamed up gg!

Do people think this is a civ game or something? They have completley contrary interests

Why do people want to team up with an authoritarian backwater so badly?

>>32678148
Russia is less authoritarian then Saudi or Turkey and less backwater then half of the US allies.

>>32678148
>>32678161
>US is already the de facto overlord of EU and Asian
>>sharing it with China and Russia.

The US is already at the top of the world. An "equal" relationship with Russia is a downgrade for the US. .

>>32678161
And our citizens are rightfully squeamish about that despite those countries benefiting us, so why are they so eager to add another shitty country to the list that has been our enemy for 70 years?

>>32670407
Russia has a shit navy, under equipped men and only has nukes going for them. The UK has more projection, France is better than the Russkies too.

Russia is a regional power

>>32678176
Nobody says about actual equal relationship. We throw them bones, like Ukraine, and they will be do hard work for us

>>32670017

Boot the dead weight.

>>32678224
Our allies are not "bones" that we throw to our enemies.

Appeasement is a garbage policy. Russia offers us nothing

>>32676506
I'm saying we should've helped Serbia instead of the disgusting muslim subhumans

>>32676303
t. Putin

>>32678253
>Ukraine
>our ally

>>32675907
Pretty much the best explanation. Only ones I know volunteering for extra deployments are at best saving for a house, more typically debt slaves, and at worst violence junkies. >>32675920
What is contract required time in service. Military downsizing was not as dramatic or as easy as it was post desert storm.

Why "fix" what isn't broken?

The US spends the most because it wants the most influence. If the US wants to spend as much as the next 30 countries, (28 of which are allies), then let them piss away their money.

The entire point of a military alliance is that it is cheaper, and the countries involved can reduce their spending to a minimum level relying on mutual defense.

>>32670254
Canada has no excuse, our PMs keep making shit up like "we can't afford it" (as they send billions in welfare and gimidats to foreign nations) or the "Canada provides more to NATO than others, we don't need to be at 2%"..

Our governments (Provincial ones too) need a major purging.


As for Iceland, they made some deals with the USA to make it that way.

Basically Iceland is a self governing territory or the USA, kinda like Guam or PR... but more autonomous, no House Rep.

>>32670017
It'd work better if the money was spent more intelligently with regards to each country's role in NATO. Specialization instead of generalization.

Example, the UK doesn't really need an army, they're a goddamm island. Their 2% should be spent almost entirely on navy, and air force, in that order.

Anyone east of Germany should be spending their budget on air defense and tanks. Their role is basically to try and hold up Warsaw pact forces for as long as possible, with air support from Germany and such, until German army, and ultimately the US military can arrive for the counter attack.

>>32680610
That would be a great way to provoke the Russians mate. And to make the nato member-states bordering the warsaw countries not want to be in nato as their role basically becomes meat shield.

File: 1482262435780.jpg (17KB, 236x236px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 236x236px

>>32671500

>>32680645
As opposed to their current role as tripwires?

>>32670441
NATO average in 1983 was 6% of GDP you lying shill

By getting out of it and letting all of those free-loading social marxist shitholes start to feel the burn to actually dump some of their cash into their military instead of relying entirely on America while bragging about how much better their social programs are.

>>32670017
>Luxembourg
>Richest country in the world

A N G R Y
N
G
R
Y

>>32673971
Wrong

>>32678253
>Our allies
>Ukraine

File: IMG_7669.png (362KB, 600x399px) Image search: [Google]

362KB, 600x399px

>>32670141
You should be fine by 2067

>>32670017

Alright I know this is pretty much heresy, but what's the fucking point of NATO right now?

Russia is not the superpower that requires the entire free world to counter it. That threat doesn't even exist. NATO should be dissolved into some less formal mutual defense agreement

Either that or America can vassalize the world already and take over their military responsibilities. Worked great for Japan and Germany. Imagine an entire planet full of Japans and Germanys, all cradled by the loving high caliber arms of freedom.

File: 1460689997889.png (91KB, 1000x4227px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 1000x4227px

>>32676049

>>32683026
Agreed. However, Europe is too used to being defended by the world's police, along with criticizing it.

>>32670891
Actually, Poland has nearly as many Leopard 2s as Germany, not to mention the PT-91.

File: 1340037111858.jpg (94KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 1280x720px

>Tfw UK is the 3rd highest
This made my day slightly better

>>32671285
Poland actually made a lot of investment in fighting in Iraq. They actually had command over a large portion of the country

>>32670209
>Grease GDP = "germoney plz gibs me money"

File: tmp_27916-300px-Russophone_population_in_Estonia-1206741221.png (58KB, 300x195px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 300x195px

>>32670337
>The population of Russians in Estonia is estimated at 320,000.

>>32670617
Not as lucky as Luxembourg

>>32670017
Abolish it.

Britain should've left during the cod wars. Fuck Iceland, fuck the meme that Russia has any deigns on Western Europe, fuck it.

>>32670141
>>Canada, a founding member only spends 1%

Canada could scrap its military completely. It has no external threats nor did it ever.

>>32670591
Turkey is Muslim and only in NATO to get US equipment. Otherwise Turkroaches are Muslim cultural enemies of civilization. After the very popular Erdogan government wipes out secularity and constitutional government expect it to go full nationalist dictatorship.

Greece is wise to arm. The historic threat to southern Europe is Muslim. The historic threat to Europe as a whole is Russian. That has not been and will never be different.

>>32670017
By killing it, seriously.

It's not worth keeping on life support for the sake of the butthurt of poles and balts, whose shitty relationship with russia has just as much to do with their own retardation as with russia's aggression.

>>32675650
>I don't want to fight stupid wars anymore. I don't want my kids to fight the same goddamn wars my father and I fought in.

Then don't volunteer. See how easy that is? Soldiers consent to war even if that consent may be slightly coerced. Become a conscientious objector and problem fucking solved.

All militaries are essentially volunteer forces. Some people aren't smart enough to dodge conscription and Combat Darwin will take care of them.

>>32675860
>tell Canada it cant coast

We make use of their resources and no reason exists for Canada to have armed forces.

>>32683041
EU-Russia relations would get a lot better if US pulled out of NATO and consequently pulled its troops and equipment out of Europe though, I don't get why no one realizes that.
Of course Europe would have to spend a lot more on defense in case that happens, mainly to beef up numbers of aircraft, surface combatants and tanks/armoured vehicles, but more importantly to invest in more strategic airlift, tanker aircraft, AEW and SIGINT. Things European countries would lack in if the US ever pulled out.

>>32675907
>People who actually grew up after time in the sandbox don't want to go back.

Or they are seriously into war as a lifestyle. There are plenty of humans like that because we evolved to be predators.

>>32678203
If any Euroshit nation actually believed that, NATO wouldn't exist.

>>32683609
I guess you need to read up how and why NATO was established.

>>32675920
Confirmed retard. You know less about the military than the civilian you're trying to shit on.

>>32670017
It's working perfectly ;)

t. europoor

>>32683620
Oh if you're so certain that Russia is weak, then you won't mind if the US leaves NATO. We both know you don't want that, and we both know why. However, you don't get to make the choice. The growing anti-NATO sentiment in America is the direct result of the Euroshits, as many others have said, sandbagging and talking shit on the people who supply armed forces to protect them. Good riddance, you scummy pieces of shit.

>>32680490
>Basically Iceland is a self governing territory of the USA, kinda like Guam or PR... but more autonomous, no House Rep

Oh boy, US education at its best. Iceland is a sovereign country and one of the founding members of NATO.
You might think of Greenland (which is also no US territory).

>>32670017
We get Eugene to release some better units for REDFOR

>>32684056
Russia still has a shitton of nukes. Let every bigger european country stock up on nukes (let say 200 each) and the USA can leave without a problem.

Congrats, you just lost influence on your biggest export market and a lot of your strategic bases are gone.

>>32684154
That's pretty cool, but the thing is, we can simply double down on trade in the Pacific. "impossible! It won't work!" I can hear it now, but this will put Russia and possibly China into an economic boom and we can then downsize our military and focus on economics.

>>32684056
>sandbagging and talking shit on the people who supply armed forces to protect them
kek, victim complex much? I could turn it around and say you're talking shit on the people who gave their life for your country in Afghanistan after you invoked Article 5.

Anyway, there's no hate against the US armed forces. More against Obongo's foreign policy which is directly responsible for the worst diplomatic relations with Russia since the Cold War. I hope Trump pulls out US troops from European soil so relations can normalize again. Any worries the Baltics and Poland might have, could be dealt with among European NATO countries themselves.

>>32684201

Sure thing, can't wait to see all those indian and chinese rice farmers with iPhones and oversized cars.
And Russia wasn't able to build a stable economy when oil prices were high and they were on good terms with the West - plus a lot of them still hate the USA.

>>32670441
They call it obsolete BECAUSE even in times of high tension/ crisis so many members are unable or unwilling to contribute their agreed upon share.

>>32676121
>Europe would've recovered either way,
LOL
Without the Marshall plan and the American occupation, the Soviets would have turned all of Europe into Kaliningrad, and the best places in Europe would be roughly as prosperous today as Poland, or maybe Slovakia.
>the primary reason we dumped money on Europe was to limit Soviet influence in the worst hit parts of Europe.
Well and to actually create trade partners out of demolished shitholes.

>>32670017
>How do we fix NATO?
Identify what you think is broken.

File: Europe-AntiWar.jpg (84KB, 564x373px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 564x373px

>>32685165
Our 'allies' are as useful as tits on a boar hog and use our military budget to subsidize their socialist bullshit while demonizing us as imperialist warmongers...?

>>32670818
Hillary pls go

>>32685183
Yeah sorry 'bout that, mate. Y'see we're kind of hesitant to send in young men to risk their lives based on a hard to swallow "WMD" story. Your willingness to jump into any altercation without due consideration of the potential.. uh, what do you call it? clusterfuck! yeah that's it. And the munitions we'd be expending (whatta surprise) is sourced from you guys. Just the tip of the iceburg.

btw, how's the restabilizing and rebuilding an open, civil, and just society going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc? Should be a walk in the park for big strong guys like you.

She isn't going to cum after 16 yrs of dicking. The camel jockeys won.

>>32680490
Stop making other Americans look like idiots.

>>32671682
No they don't. Ever met a Canadian?

>>32673902
You're fucking stupid. The meaning was if Estonia is at war WITH ANOTHER COUNTRY (Rossiya).
Which would end quickly and we would be out a partner.

>>32675650
Idiot.
You want to bury your head in the sand and wait for threats to knock on your exposed ass.

>>32678148
>>32678161
t. Vladimir

>>32684290
>I hope Trump pulls out US troops from European soil so relations can normalize again. Any worries the Baltics and Poland might have, could be dealt with among European NATO countries themselves.
signed, Vlad