REP. SENSENBRENNER INTRODUCES ANTI ATF BILL

RIP Jim Sensenbrenner's doggo

>>32633280
So now the FBI will shoot our dogs?

I think its cool, but sounds like it probably will go nowhere.

Just think of the dog population bomb about to hit us.

>>32633307
Well the thing that leaves along with the ATF is quite a bit of the fucking ATF making up their own rules and shit, all willy nilly and then enforcing them as they see fit. Like random shit being classified as a certain thing because the director was like "lol i guess man shit"

not to mention I'm sure the FBI is a lot more confident than the stupid fucking ATF.

"The ATF drew heat in 2011 after the so-called Fast and Furious operation, in which the ATF willingly let Mexican drug cartels buy illegal firearms in order to track the guns and then arrest the criminals carrying them.

The operation went drastically wrong as agents lost track of the guns. Instead of leading to arrests of high-ranking cartel members, the firearms were reportedly used in numerous murders in Mexico."

But will it get me a giggleswitch sooner.

>>32633307
At least the FBI will be distracted by real crime and terrism once a week as they hunt down innocent dogs.

>>32633327
That pissed me off so much

>>32633339
Probably, seeing as how the ATF is the biggest opponent of full auto and shit, not counting the actual dems in congress.

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>>32633355

Nah-nah-nah-nah hey-hey-hey goodbye atf.

Has the FBI ever did anything stupid? We hear about CIA and ATF bullshit daily, but what negative thing has the FBI done? We even praise their real gun death numbers.

Sounds like a solid bill to support, but...
>>32633339
This is the most relevant question on all of our minds.
Will we get the F/A registry open once again?
Will the NFA still be a thing?

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>>32633397
They fucked hilldog real good.

>>32633280
>tfw I was born to late to remove communists during the cold war
feels bad man

>tfw, I was born to early to remove ayy in colonial space wars and explore the final frontier
feels bad man

>tfw I was born just in time to witness the dismantling of the ATF
Feels good man.

>>32633397
The FBI were the ones who killed everyone at Waco.

>>32633397
Not really. the FBI is actually pretty much the most competent 3 letter agency out there as far as i know. I'm sure they've fucked SOMETHING up though, you can't go as long as they have and not fuck up.
>>32633400
It's a YUGE step in the right direction. All of this could very well happen if the ATF is dissolved, like IT REALLY COULD HAPPEN tier.

>>32633400
>Will we get the F/A registry open once again?
>Will the NFA still be a thing?
Their removal can be possible in the long run, however, our main opposition to removing the NFA and the Machine Gun Registry has their power taken away. You could say that their grip and influence has weakened. This can be beneficial to us in the long run

>>32633280
Based Sensenbrenner! I knew I voted for you for some reason.

>>32633280
A competent form of ATF is terrifying, OP.

Would now be a good time to buy full auto kits?

>>32633419
The ATF started it, fanned the fires, and fucked everything.

If wr blame the FBI for that you also have to blame the Texas national guard.

I don't mind removing cultists, but if it wasn't for the atf bullshit they would still be there doing whatever jesus shit they were doing

>>32633494
Yes.

Is always a good time.

>>32633494
yes

>>32633327
>not to mention I'm sure the FBI is a lot more confident than the stupid fucking ATF.
Why? This is the same organization that failed to arrest Robert Hanssen despite the fact that he was caught compromising a secure system and was named several times as a mole. They even tried to pin a CIA agent for it, going so far as to entrap him, which he promptly reported to the FBI. They ruined his career anyway.

The FBI are incompetent as fuck and twice as arrogant.

Atf writes the regulations that guide how laws are enforced.

I don't likeep the Idea of police and regulatory being under the same roof.

All police powers should be stripped from the atf.

Atf can write the rules and inspect. Yet the fbi would have to do the police part.

The FBI aren't particularly competent, but they also aren't an agency dedicated to openly taking private poperty without legal remit. From the wording of the bill, it sounds like ATF affairs will also be eliminated and downsized alongside the transferral of roles to the FBI/DEA so best case neither agency will take an interest in manufacturing litigation against random gun brands and features.

On the other hand, I think this is also intended to give the FBI wider Cassus Belli to withhold firearms sales to suspected terrorists and etc. as a kind of response to recent watchlist fumbles. Which isn't very inviting

>>32633614
Effectively makes the atf a section of the fbi. Won't fix anything.

>>32633590
ATF shouldn't have any litigation powers at all. They're a part of the Executive Branch and should not transgress that position by writing litigation or judging a case.
The ATF should have just been the patsies sent in to clean up pot farms and sweep murder suspects' homes for illegal weapons, but then the Clintons got everyone hyped up over the AWB and the ATF was given carte blanche

>>32633327
Agreed. If you give government workers too much authority, inadequate supervision, and an overly broad mandate, they'll either a) do stupid shit, b) give people shit for no reason, or c) browse /k/ all day.

This bill is nonsensical. The laws you guys dislike wont magically go away, they'll just be enforced by a different agency, which will probably hire a bunch of old ATF agents to do it since it is their area of expertise.

>>32633653
It's like you know exactly where I work.

>>32633699
I knew this forum was full of bored ATF agents

>>32633653
>Overly broad mandate

This. The FBI has a catch all clause where basically they can research any form of Federal crime, and many 3 letter agencies also overlap.

>>32633642
ATF has always been like that.

Make gun laws less open, and the executive no branch can't abuse interpretation .

>>32633723
You caught us. /k/ is populated almost entirely by ATF agents, just like /pol/ is just bored FBI with some CIA assholes concern trolling. It started as an experiment, an all in one honey pot, but then we all realized no one wanted to see CP, talk about building machineguns, or become nazi themed domestic terrorists IRL but that they would still pay us if we kept the site active. Kind of got out of hand...

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>>32633699
I don't know where you work. I know where I work tho.
>bitches don't know bout mah nepotism laws
>bitches don't know bout mah laws on government workers overstepping their bounds
>bitches don't know bout the difference between "shall" and "may"
>bitches don't know where the burden of proof lies

>Instead of posting this job externally, I'll just post it internally, and e-mail HR my son's resume before it goes live
>I can't prove they're doing it wrong, but they can't prove they're doing it RIGHT, so I'm'a send a Notice of Violation
>No, you can't work with them to correct that, the Rules require us to fine them
>I don't care if the law doesn't give us the authority to do this, it's the way we've always done it, and I'm not going to argue with our 59 y.o. secretary to get it changed

Lazy, arbitrary, capricious behavior is the rule of the day in government, and making the mission more important doesn't change that one bit. I never hated government until I started working for them. Now I hate unions, too.

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>>32633723

>>32633777
My tax dollars at work

Okay so then will the tax portion of the ATF go back to the IRS?

Not sure I'm okay with that

>>32633307
>So now the FBI will shoot our dogs?
They already do.
>I think its cool, but sounds like it probably will go nowhere.
This is true. Too many Republicans in Congress are name only.

>>32633513
>I don't mind removing cultists, but if it wasn't for the atf bullshit they would still be there doing whatever jesus shit they were doing

People would be devoting themselves to religion? Call the National Guard! We can't have this!!

>>32633280
>The ATF drew heat in 2011 after the so-called Fast and Furious operation, in which the ATF willingly let Mexican drug cartels buy illegal firearms in order to track the guns and then arrest the criminals carrying them.

Whoa, it's like, why?

>>32633590
>Atf can write the rules and inspect.
No. CONGRESS, ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE, are the only ones that the Constitution GRANTS the power of "writing rules" to. The courts are who should be "inspecting" rules.

>>32633815
Trips of truth >>32633777 don't lie.

Don't worry, tho. MY shit posting is being done on the time of an agency that's entirely fee funded, by the people we regulate. So, sure, I'm wasting their money, but I'm also making less fucking trouble capriciously overenforcing fear based regulations that have no scientific backing.

Can you guess my Agency yet?

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>>32633777
heavenly trips confirm

also, fugg da DEA

>>32633882
The IRS?

>>32633863
Another "small government conservative" admits he doesn't mind when government kills people he dislikes

>The ATF breaks off from the government and goes rogue, turning into the most violent street gang that has ever roamed the Streets of America.

>>32633889
No, too broad. I like the way you think, tho.

>>32633397
They raided the Les Paul guitar factory, for starters.

>>32633695
>The laws you guys dislike wont magically go away, they'll just be enforced by a different agency, which will probably hire a bunch of old ATF agents to do it since it is their area of expertise.

You obviously understand nothing about how the ATF works or what we don't like about it. The laws on the books are only half the story. The other half is the fact that the ATF is constantly changing how they interpret the law and passing down new "rules," aka illegal regulations. Just read the bullshit about how they view AR pistols and whether or not you can shoulder them.

It's also worth noting that most of the people who get into the ATF are not gun people, but rather are alcohol and tobacco people. Calling their job "their area of expertise" is giving them far too much credit.

>>32633371
We need a sticker like that one, except it says Arms are for Bearing.

>>32633882
EPA probably

>>32633397
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html?utm_term=.68d0c5f16f0e

They are not flawless, but at least they admit their mistakes.

>>32633397
Yes, many times, they are just good at keeping it quiet.

>>32633882
I'm guessing it's some state's Fish and Game/Department of Conservation, or the National Parks. Those are the only types of agencies I can think that would be largely fee-funded, although I'm skeptical of the "entirely" part. What if the fee revenue fell below a certain mark some year, would you no get paid? Of course not. The federal government would use tax dollars to make up the difference.

>>32633882
Bureau of Memetic Warfare

>>32633653
>c) browse /k/ all day.
wait are you saying I could actually get paid to shit up /k/ all day!

>>32633910
You think whoever takes over for the ATF wont do the exact same stuff?

>>32633906
Now now, that was some seriously endangered guitar wood. Someone really could have been hurt.

See >>32633778. Why pass up a SWAT style raid to just send one guy to to "Seriously, dudes? What the fuck. Knock it off." There's no fun in that!

>>32633280
if they dissolve the agency but the things they do just get absorbed by other agencies then nothing is really accomplished and a few agencies get bigger and have more power. It sounds good at first but when you realize that it goes against the whole "separation of powers" thing that we claim to love in the US, then it doesn't seem like such a good idea. A better idea would be to neuter them of the powers they have of basically creating laws and regulations and return all of those powers back to Congress like they should be.

>>32633873
Congress thought writing was hard so the made a group to write it for them and the regulations doesn't need to have congressional approval.

This is how most of the laws work now.

>>32633958
The work of the FBI is held to a MUCH higher standard. No, I do not think they will handle enforcement of gun laws how the ATF handled them.

>>32633916
Getting warmer. Not environmental, but similar mentality and execution.

>>32633943
>Some states
Yes, but I won't make you guess which. There's an equivalent federal agency whose work we duplicate, b/c fuck sense.
>Those are the only types of agencies I can think that would be largely fee-funded, although I'm skeptical of the "entirely" part. What if the fee revenue fell below a certain mark some year, would you no get paid? Of course not. The federal government would use tax dollars to make up the difference.
The surplus sits in a dedicated account that doesn't get raided b/c it's called something sufficiently scary that no one would take the political heat to raid it, and the fees are shockingly dependable.

>>32634003
Almost sounds like the WI DNR

>>32634003
Also, not f&g. Didn't mean to imply that.

Is there anything in the FOPA that specifically says the ATF can't approve new MGs or something? If it is then the FBI would be able to approve them

>>32633280
Holy shit the governments really been going all out on corruption lately.,

>>32633825

It never left.

Remember, the ban on Streetsweepers and similar shotguns was a US Treasury Department ruling, not an ATF ruling.

>>32634021
Wait, seriously? Is the Hughes Amendment worded to only ban the ATF by name from approving new machine guns? If so, then the ATF Eliminatin Act is dead on arrival. Fuck.

>>32633280
I don't like it.

I'd rather have Trump just purge all the antis out of the ATF and turn it into a NRA run police force that enforces gun freedom on blue state tyrants and straight up uses its 'authority' to open up every kind of legal loophole imagineable like having unlimited amnesties for MGs, simplifying and rubber stamping every application for FFLs until everyone can get everything they could want, etc.

>>32634059
I don't know, I was asking, does anyone have a link to the actual wording of the FOPA?

>>32634070
To be fair, there are a few like that there, at least
>Shockwave Blade is not a stock
>Sig brace is not a stock

>>32634078
If you want to wade through it, go ahead. Here's a summary: https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/senate-bill/49

And the actual wording: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/99/s49/text

I'm guessing that it doesn't specify the exact agency to enforce the law, since laws rarely do.

>>32634070
Nah. You can't redeem the irredeemable. There is no power under the sun that you can give government, in any sphere, that will not be weaponized and abused.

>>32634118
Well we just won the federal government which is the ultimate owner of said fuckups.

I supposed I'd rather just blame the people and not the 'tool' or organization in this case.

I do get your point however, if we were to have the FBI enforce upcoming progun rights federal preemption bills like National CC or non NFA Suppresor legalizations.

But either way my hope is that we loosen almost all the gun laws with federal power we temporarity control, place progun judges who will be around for decades to keep ruling in our favor, and also massively expand the number and capabilities of civilian guns in america such as waaaay more black rifles and possible full autos and destructive devices if even those laws get nullified. So we get literally tens or even a hundred million of more machine guns that will render any future laws pretty much unenforceable forever.

Use our power now to prepare us for the next democrap president.

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>>32634003
>Just finished writing up an inspection report
>inspectee didn't document shit, speaks terrible English despite 40 years in this country
>however, his work product made it 100% clear that not only is he doing everything right
>he's doing it way better than most, and is going above and beyond to protect the public
>mfw I'm going to have to argue with my supervisor about why I'm not going to come down on this guy for not having proof he's doing things the right way
>it's OUR fucking job to prove when people are doing things WRONG, not the other way around, and this guy's one of the good guys

>>32634118
>will not be weaponized and abused.
Never blame on malice what can be adequately ascribed to stupidity.

Sure, there are some gov workers out there who will try to violate people's rights just to be assholes.

More likely is the scenario that lazy and capricious assholes will just make a fucking mess out of whatever power they're given.

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>>32634014
FUCK the Wisconsin DNR

>Try to catch me riding dirty

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>>32633371
The funniest part is that, to this day, Holder has yet to answer for this boondoggle and resigned only after being disgraced by a handful of scandals.

>>32634429
And now he's gonna try to help us improve our voting system. Jesus Christ.

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>>32633280
But what are ATF agents supposed to do when they can't trawl /k/ with inquiries about "off the books" machine guns and how to make bombs??

>>32634567
/hm/?

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>fuck over the ATF
yay
>and give their duties to the DEA
fuck

>>32633489
Yeah, this is what worries me.

There's no guarantee the FBI will be any more of a friend than the ATF. And unlike the ATF, when they set their mind towards enforcing laws, laws get enforced.

>>32633412
On that second one, there's a chance that if you are part of the millennial generation, you may be the first generation, to not worrie about dying of old age, so stay healthy and you can live forever

>>32633777
I wanna think you fooling
But it kinda makes sense
Also
>Dem dubs-trips

>>32633280
>Instead of repealing or amending bad laws, let's abolish the ATF and DEA so the FBI can take over and do the exact same thing!
>>32633369
That's not how it works
>>32633433
>our main opposition to removing the NFA and the Machine Gun Registry has their power taken away
YOU. FUCKING. MORON. NO. Read a god damned civics textbook

>abolish the ATF
No as much as I DISLIKES them there needs to be a governmental organization that regulates and oversees the taxation of firearms and controlled substances. The problem is that the ATF are dicks whose opinions don't make any fucking sense.

>>32636276
Why do we need to tax firearms and control substances at all?

>>32636288
Taxation of luxury items is one of the only acceptable forms of taxation along with tariffs. Or do you prefer payroll taxes?

>Why should I have to pay taxes at all?!
Because that's the way governments and the world itself works.

>>32636317
>Or do you prefer payroll taxes?
I do personally. But why not just set the taxes up under the purview IRS like any other good?

Good, there are too many federal law enforcement agencies. They should get rid of a couple more.

>>32636276
It doesn't need to be separate from the FBI.

>>32633777
>yfw you realize you're undercover ATF

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>>32634003
>>32634262
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/documents/inspector_general_passports.pdf

Did I guess right anon?

>>32633280
if this keeps in place all of the ATF's rulings and gives the FBI the same discretion the ATF had, then this is a fucking terrible idea.

>>32636317
Guns aren't "luxury items", they're a guaranteed constitutional right.

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>>32636465
Shut your god damn mouth you camel smoking, whiskey drinking, fun owning american! The government is going to Hostage Rescue the shit out of you and your little dog too.

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>>32633280

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>man the ATF sure sucks
>I know, let's have the fucking FBI do their job!
>people unironically believe this is a good idea
>FBIs face when

>>>>/pol/

I know the ATF is capricious and dumb, but why would we expect the FBI to respect the 2nd amendment any more than the ATF?

I'd also be very nervous about weakening the enforcement of firearms laws without actually changing the laws. In blue states that could invite local government to "fill the gap" leading to more states that have bullshit local laws like CA and MA.

It's not like my local gun store is going to start selling ARs because the ATF has been gutted when state police can come in and shut the whole thing down :(

>>32634280
>Never blame on malice what can be adequately ascribed to stupidity.

i vehemently disagree with this assertion because stupid people can be malicious too.

always assume its malice. doesn't matter if its ignorance, when the net result is the same.

>>32634840
THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND YOU LIBERAL SACK OF DOG SHIT

>>32636997
learn to read

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>>32633433
yes... but now we need a group or someone to take advantage and exploit this weakness to push through as I'm confident this window will not stay this open for a long time... That may be the difficult part.

>>32633956
Join federal law enforcement? You can say you came for the honeypot but stuck around for the shitposting.

>>32636317
>along with tariffs

opinion discarded

t. economics student

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>>32636997
>I'm literally so high off my ass right now I can't tell what I'm responding to

Please think before you post...

>>32633280
The original mission was to make sure that taxes got collected on alcohol and tobacco manufacturing. They were called "Revenuers" back then.

Back then, every farm had a pot still becuase thats how farmer brown fueled his tractor and model-t ford. [model-t and model-a will run on just about anything from crisco to lamp oil. the original flex fuel vehicles.]

Make home distillation of alcohol legal again and its one more reason lost for the batfe to exist.

VOTE motherfuckers

>>32637685
found the chinese steel importer

>>32633892
>Massive resurgence of civilian firearm ownership due to the need for protection from the ATF gang
>Massive support for dissolving local and Federal regulations on firearms due to the fact that the ATF has more firepower than most small-town PDs
>It becomes legal nationwide to remove ATF after the DHS and FBI declare them domestic terrorists and an imminent threat to the nation
>ATF lasts six months before the shattered ranks attempt to flee to Mexico
>Battered, bloody, and exhausted ATF members make their way to the border under the constant threat of being kebablimated by the rednecks patrolling with Browning M2A2s mounted on their shitty Ford pickups
>Many agents are foiled by THE WALL and are gunned down like the dogs they once terrorized
>The lucky few that make it into Mexico expect to be welcomed by the cartels they once armed, only to find out first hand that even if you fucked up trying to burn the cartels, you still tried to burn the cartels

Where's Do-It-Faggot man when you need a hero?

>>32633280
I knew we could ask for anything but I'm feeling this one was a bitof a curveball

>>32633280

Good, remove them before they claim lasers too!

>>32634003

DHS

>>32633280
>the highest profile representative who isn't Ron Paul
This looks good, Just need to make sure if you get rid of ATF you get rid of the power to classify shit and ban ammo and braces

>>32634280

Having seen the sort of political activist that usually blocks gun control, I'd be willing to bet that it's usually malice fueled by stupidity, and not necessarily the actor's own stupidity, but the idea that if they do these stupid actions they will become popular to the dumb who mandate them to do so.

If a bunch of people are telling you good job and paying for stamping out somebody else's rights who you don't even know and/or care about, odds are unless you've got really solid morals, that's what you're going to do. That's the same reasoning that got us stuck in the ME's business.

>>32636546
This

>>32633397
atf ops like ruby ridge and waco end up being FBI hit jobs.

>>32636887
this, family.

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>>32633280
In other news Jeff Sessions a staunch 2A supporter has been confirmed for Attorney General.

he's that one guy we all heard about a long time ago when liberals were claiming he was racist for calling a black person a "boy", and his career was destroyed over it.

Donald Trump addressed this directly, and I'm just so glad we have a person in the white house who actually cares about this kind of injustice.

We truly do live in the greatest nation on the planet.

>>32633369
ATF doesn't make the law, they just enforce it.

>>32634021
no, it just says that the registry for transferable machine guns is closed as of 5-19-86

>>32642966
Except for when they ban or attempt to ban certain ammo types based on they suddenly new interpretation of the law.

>>32638799
As fun as that is to imagine, the sad fact is most of these people will simply be absorbed into the FBI, and continue doing the same shitty job they did at the ATF.

>>32634003
Osha?

>>32633863
The problem there was that they weren't just devoting themselves to religion, they were forcing their families to go along and they were actively rejecting society.

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>>32633397
Infants are highly dangerous!

>>32642966
and the ones enforcing it can stretch a little bit in their interpretations, I mean, what you gonna do? Hire an attorney, waste years of you life in limbo between court and legal troubles, and end up with less money and MAYBE an apology?

>>32642966

Bruh, they "reinterpret" things all the damn time. They are given so much leeway, they basically write the law.

Take for example: The import ban on "non-sporting firearms"

What the fuck does this even mean? ATF can redefine that term any time they want.

I don't see how this is better. Same shit different acronym

>>32633280
Good.
Next thing they need to eliminate is the DEA

>>32633339
No, it will just get rid of the only agency that can approve stuff like that and transfer it to an agency that doesn't have the know how or manpower to do it.

Unless they repeal the NFA enjoy your five year wait on getting NFA stuff approved through the FBI.

>>32633280
the FBI can and should take over the firearms and explosives mandate. IIRC the fbi already does the instant background check, which probably prevents more gun-law violations than all the ATF programs combined.

the DEA should put tobacco and alcohol under their drug mandate.

>>32633806
this is literally the story of elohim city

>>32633760
tbf, thats kind of a side effect of its age. In simpler times, it wasnt much of an issue. But now you have these fancy bath salts, retards trying to trim 40mm grenades to 37mm, mexican coyotes, and child cyber sex websites.

I mean it sounds great, but it also sounds like all the shit we have to send to the atf will get bogged down even more because the FBI is already busy with a fuck ton of other shit.

Kinda sounds like the bill they tried to pass in Nevada. Making the FBI do background checks for all private party transfers. The FBI came out and said
>lol, no we won't. Too busy

So the law can't be enforced, and is dead because it can't be changed for a few years

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>>32633280

>>32633777
>ATF makes honeypot forum
>Meanwhile, at Langley, a bored /pol/lack looks at /k/.
>"Hey, boss, do you think if we fuck over the ATF we can get an increase to our own meme-warfare funding?"
>"Give it a shot Jim."

>New Thread: FBI REPORT SHOWS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 9X19MM AND .45ACP, FUDDY-FIVE FAGS BTFO!!!"

>God damn it Jim, you're a genius.

>>32633280
on one hand atf is pretty retarded when it comes to opinions that are magically law, on the other hand if fbi is more competent wouldn't they interpret laws better such that there aren't as many loop holes?(i.e. sig brace)

>>32633778
So real it hurts

>>32633777
Quick what firearms do i own

>>32633958
FBI and DEA have oversight run by outside parties, ATF basically only answers to the President. There is always going to be risks of abuse of power, but giving an organization no oversight is like leaving your car unlocked, window down with the key on the seat.

>>32643156
that baby totally looks like an RPG from that range

>>32633892
At least then removing ATF would become legal.

>>32633280
14 years in Congress, its about time that asshat did something useful!!!!