Well /k/ if you watched the armed service commite today one of

>>32626153
A gas piston AR derivative made ambidextrous with improved ergonomics and quick-change barrels chambered in 5.56 and .300 blackout.

Good opinion. Only worried about how it handles mistreatment a rifle will take during combat. But i do like .300 rounds getting pushed into an opponent. One and done lol

If they did a form of upgrade it would probably be to the M27. The way the budget is it's unrealistic to change caliber. Maybe in the future, but I doubt within the next years IF a change even happened at all.

The fact is there really is nothing wrong with the AR platform. If I was a betting man I'd put my money on them completely getting rid of the m16, replacing them all with the m4, and in time replace some of those with the m27.

This is already happening btw.

>>32626153
id rather our troops get better hands on training and improve in marksmanship skills before we spend a fuck load of money buying everyone new toys.

>>32626216
>piston
how about no

>>32626153
should just get better barrels
M855A1 is apparently pretty damn good, so keep that
and replace the M9 with something lighter and striker fired.

The AR/M16 platform is completely fine.

No reason to change it besides memes.
>muh piston
>muh freefloat

>>32626347
The without question the more effective rifle, but it has problems fitting standard mag sizes, and diffrent mag types causing jams and malfunctions. Other than that the thing's fucking beautiful.


>>32626153
Agreed, and with mccain and mattis working on it thats a very real possibility. I should have a counter on mattis for the use of the words "lethal force". Hes not going to settle for softness in my opinion.

>>32626153
You said it without realizing it:
The Armed forces NEED to go to a BATTLE RIFLE and use the assault rifles and SMG's for very specific units on special missions. I'm thinking the LMT308MWS.. Maybe a little work to make the barrel swap faster. In the modern era where everyone and his borther and their 3rd cousin has level 4 or better, it's time to go back to the calibers and power needed to do the job while still in a weight range that keeps the package humpable. Your grandpappy lugged a .308 across Europe, your ass can as well.. Especially with lighter materials available. Ammo was and is always heavy, get over it. For rank and file mudpounding grunts, yep, a real battle rifle.. Special tools for special folks.

RIFLE IS FINE

>>32626503
.308 has been outdated since '64, grandpa. Get with the times.
>>32626488
A well built AR is just as good as the M27, and lighter to boot.

>>32626153
Well, what the fuck did Mad Dog say? Don't tease me like this you cunt.

>>32626406
Piston pros:
>Better reliability
>Easier cleaning
>Quick-change barrels and more creative upper designs are now possible
>Easier to tune the same gun around different cartridge loadings
>Eliminates the buffer tube assembly, making true folder stocks a possibility, which in turn means that 20" barrels can come back since a side-folder stock now means you can easily shoulder a proper barrel in a vehicle without issue

Piston cons:
>It adds less than 1/4 lb of weight
>It triggers AR traditionalists

The current platform's greatest asset is it's modularity and customizability. Whatever replaces it needs to be able to up the ante in that regard, which means hot-swappable cartridge changes (5.56 for longer distance/armored targets, .300 for dropping civvies and sand people), ambidexterity, and rectifying the AR platform's current limitations in terms of stock designs (remember that a side or under-folder now makes a .300 blackout PDW a possibility), and you'll have an utterly god-tier assault rifle for the 21st century.

>>32626529
>which means hot-swappable cartridge changes (5.56 for longer distance/armored targets, .300 for dropping civvies and sand people), ambidexterity, and rectifying the AR platform's current limitations in terms of stock designs (remember that a side or under-folder now makes a .300 blackout PDW a possibility),

This shit is be being given to grunts, do you really think the military is going to bother buying a bunch of shit for a meme round they will never bother using.

>>32626503
Well theres always room for finding a way to get around plates instead of through them. Like standard frag rounds instead of soft lead with copper cores. A bullet that shatters on a plate (assuming they have little to no kevlar or maybe you hit your the enemys gear) can still cause damage under the neck, in the face and on the upper quads. i do agree though it feels like no one considers the enemys armor capabilities, probably cause we havent had contact with enough of them latley.

Mini 14 or SKS
preferably in .300 Blackout

>>32626574
What is fire suppresion? Dude even with an extended mag standard a plink gun isnt making anyone duck. Keep that with the DM (designated marksman) where they belong.

>>32626529
except a piston isn't anymore reliable or easier to clean than a standard AR. Also ARs can still be Stoner gas and have a quick change barrel system, not like that's needed on a rifle anyway. It's just as easy to tune stoner gas with an adjustable gas block or upper receiver, and piston has no bearing on the buffer tube assembly.
Do you have any fucking clue how much of a logistical pain in the ass it would be to have two standard calibers, not including the fact that at least 10 grunts a day are going to put .300 in a 5.56 barrel. Besides, 5.56 is just as effective as .300 blk against anything in the right load.
>>32626574
kill yourself

>>32626511
Playing CoD in your mama's basement while your stepdad molests you informs you on nothing kid.

SAPI and ESAPI's are EVERYWHERE, and the other players are shoving plates out the door as well. Modern warfare is close, and in tight urban environments where punching through medium is critical to dealing with your problems..

That punk 5.56 varmint round just can't cut it in the face of armor.

This is about what STANDARD issue should be..

Well, there's part of the problem.. Large standing infantry units are outdated in modern warfare. Our armor and infantry units should be less than half what they are now.. We should update the air force and navy, moderate changes to the marines, gut the army. Big focus on EW, submarines, cyberspace and small elite units that handle political issues as well as they put people down. They need to be as much spook as soldier.

This debate about the new standard small arms is just intellectual masturbation. The real conversation is how we must TOTALLY shift how we engage from here on out.

It's YOU that needs to get with the times kid.

>>32626567
No, but hot-swappable barrels just give you added versatility on the fly. What the last 15 years have taught us is that you can never have enough versatility and flexibility.

So let's say you're operating out of a forward base against a quasi-governmental foe like ISIS with limited body armor that you're engaging at ~400 meters or more at times. You're going to want 5.56 so you have half a prayer of getting through their plate or Saudi-funded kevlar at any sort of distance.

Meanwhile, the folks stuck defending your base are facing off against civilian targets and possible suicide bombers at <100m ranges. Since you're defending against possible walking IED's, you want to have the highest possible shot at dropping them with the first hit, and things like accuracy and ballistic performance at >300m are utterly worthless. .300 blackout shines here and will be that much more effective at dropping Sayeed before he can push the button on his vest.

Hot-swappable barrels mean that you can now outfit that base with the same exact rifles and magazines, and allow your soldiers to be given the best cartridge for their given mission while streamlining the procurement and parts supply process as much as is humanly possible. The only thing you need to keep different stocks of are barrels and ammo.

>>32626610
Stoner gas may be versatile, but you still did fuck all about the buffer tube, which is basically the only real defect that the AR platform has at this point.

Eliminate the buffer tube and now you can have a side-folder or under-folder, which is something that the AR platform has honestly needed since its inception.

I'm waiting to see how the hell you plan on pulling off a side-folder with Stoner's gas system.

>>32626683
name a .308 round that can pen level IV.
You realize the vast majority of US enemies have no access to any kind of body armor, right?
>proposes only moderate changes to the marines but gut the Army
>also says all inf units should be as much spook as soldier
Played too much CoD4, ay buddy? The marines are just as much soldier as the Army. No better, no worse.
>>32626708
MK262 will fragment fine in small durkahs, and M855A1 can pen most practical body armor. 5.56 CAN DO ALL THE STANDARD INFANTRY RIFLE JOBS AND MORE.
>>32626756
A side or under folder isn't needed at all. The ARs adjustable buttstock is just as good right now. If you REALLY need one, you can get a LAW tactical folder. It's not like you're gonna be shooting with it folded, anyway.

>>32626708
LMT308MWS: 7.62X51 for everyone going out, pumpkin ball .338 Federal for the fobbits holding down the base.

Armor issue solved. Fast knock down solved. Also since such ops tend to be OOTW, bimetal projectiles that go deep on armor and bloom like a poppy on tissue.

>>32626708

How have you allowed yourself to be memed thus hard that you think this shit makes sense

>>32626153
the military needs 4 calibers: 5.56, 7.62, .338lapua, and .50bmg.

the rifles are ar15 family, ar10 family, bolt action .338, and semi-auto 50bmg

that's is, anything else is a waste of money.

as for pistols, glock or something similar in 9mm and give service members the ability to purchase the firearm after they complete their term that way you always have a flow of fresh pistols.


THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED.

>>32626812
I like how you think, I'd be totally cool with my original idea >>32626216 done in 7.62 NATO. An ambidextrous piston AR-10 capable of having a proper side folding stock would be the god rifle, the G3/FAL 2.0 what up until now the world hasn't yet been worthy of receiving.

>>32626787
>a folding mechanism that exposes the delicate internal workings of the rifle in the position it will spend 90% of it's time in is supposed to somehow be acceptable for anything other than looking cool when at the range and when you open carry at applebee's like the mallninja tryhard that you are

Come on, m8, let's be serious here.

>>32626787
They ain't doing much but trying to get air after one much less two in the plates.. Plus, THEY WILL NO LONGER BE STANDING OR KNEELING. Nope, they will be horizontal and STUNNED, BADLY.

Then, YOU HAVE OPTIONS. Finish him off or take him in alive and get some damned intel.

Yes, most guys we shoot at don't have good boron like we do.. How long you think that will last?!?!

Since they DON'T currently have ESAPI, it FURTHER validates what I'm saying.. 7.62X51 WILL punch most of what they have now, with plenty of energy splattering organs.

Don't bring that fobbit baloney to me.

>>32626878
>the position it will spend 90% of it's time in

If you're outside of the wire, why would you not carry your rifle in a configuration where you can shoulder your rifle at a moment's notice.

You have a sling, there's no real reason not to.

>>32626878
7.62 is not needed in a rifle role, and never will beat 5.56.
>>32626895
Oops, looks like you've run out of ammo shooting people in the chest without killing them. They're getting back up, ready to kill you. You might have solved this problem had you had a smaller caliber so you could carry more ammo.
>>32626878
Folding stocks are only used for storage and minor transport, anyway.

>>32626347
>the budget is unrealistic to change caliber
>just buy $3000 piston AR's that only appear good because the military buys M4's from whoever makes them the cheapest

>>32626529
>which in turn means that 20" barrels can come back

Or they can stop using A2 stocks.

>>32626940
Learn to put steel on target and leave the spray and pray back home in the inner city.

The chain fed is there for a reason, so is the 203.

Some of us worked for a living high speed and low drag.

The rifle is perfectly finevfor at leadt another 8 years, nothing so much bettervthst it would warrant to expensive over haul, I say no. Im an ak guy but M16/m4/whatever seem perfectly fine. Until caseless ammo takes over fuck it just keep em

>>32626940
>7.62 is not needed in a rifle role, and never will beat 5.56.
And with that, everyone here now knows to ignore you.

>>32626895
>7.62X51 WILL punch most of what they have now

So will M855A1.

>>32627038
in that role, as a primary infantry rifle, 7.62 will never be relevant again.
>>32627013
We're not talking about other weapons, we're talking about rifles. No shit 7.62 beats out 5.56 in a MMG role, MMGs generally shoot farther and are heavier, so they can have a larger round without much more recoil. They're also belt fed, so carrying lots of larger ammo is easier.

>>32626787
>name a .308 round that can pen level IV.

M993.

>>32627013
>steel on target
>chain fed
>I WUZ N OPERATOR

M'kay pumpkin

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>>32626865
I agree with this anon. As much as I dislike the 5.56x45, nothing short of a major evolution in small arms technology is going to see the replacement of that round. The .300blackout, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel and other rounds like them are nothing more than meme tier bullshit. Even moreso now that the M855A1 and MK362 are the new enhanced ball rounds for US forces using 5.56x45 weaponry. And the thought of replacing the awesome 7.62 REAL FUCKING NATO with anything weaker, makes my blood boil.

Once caseless or telescoped ammo becomes standard issue, it would make sense to take advantage of that decrease in weight by continuing to use a big .30 cal projectile. Body armor is getting better and better and currently has an edge on small arms ammo with even .50BMG ball rounds getting stopped by the newer stuff.

Let's not forget ISIS and others are finding eat easier to get a hold of body armor.

We should start looking at everything currently in service and pick something reliable.

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>>32627169
6.5mm telescoped ammo is what the military wants

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>>32626708
>different calibers a good idea
>troops having that radically divergent mission requirements
>this not being a logistical nightmare
>300 memeout being good

What bizzaro world do you live in?

Im not even sure what you mean by "forward bases" and "your base." Like major bases in CONUS? They already issue shotguns to the gate guards I've seen. In country you'd have a 240 or M2 at any checkpoint. As >>32626787 said MK262 and M855A1 are pretty fucking good.

I do know you play to much vidya games and think this makes you an expert.

>>32626153
As for the original question, I think the M4 is pretty good, especially with the new 5.56 rounds. I do think It could be improved with a free float handguard and ambi controls.

>>32626510
>This

However personally i would vote they just build 1 million valmets in 5.56

>>32626153
Whatever it is just dont let it have slip rings for the love of god

>>32628660
this is pretty much the most reasonable thing in this thread

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Adopt the SCAR for issue.
>SCAR L.
>SCAR H.
>SCAR HAMR.
The SCAR series blew all other rifles in trials out of the water.
The SCAR is identical across variants allowing easy training.
Quick change barrel allows quick mission tailoring.
Get rid of the fucking 9mm.
Go 10mm.

>>32626381
the purpose of modern infantry isn't to go out and shoot gooks though, it's to sit on a hill and claim it as their own. Their guns need to be idiot-proofed enough that they can pick up another one if it breaks and designed to compensate for the unfaltering fact that human judgment goes to shit in a combat zone

>>32629246
As much as I hate the uggboot I have to agree with this.
Any other option is just inferior.

>>32626153
duh, FAMAS.. Jesus it's not that hard.

>>32626503
>Your grandpappy lugged a .308 across Europe, your ass can as well.. Especially with lighter materials available.

the LMT MWS308 with just a 16" barrel weighs nearly 10lbs compared to 9.5 for a M1 Garand. then add on another 2 lbs of optic, IR laser, and weaponslight. then add a bunch of armor on the soldier that didn't exist back in the 40s and 50s.

>>32626153
It's called the LSAT

>>32626610
>except a piston isn't anymore reliable or easier to clean than a standard AR

SOCOM might know more about ARs than you do. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

>>32626153
Just upgrade all the ARs in service with the ideas that Jim Sullivan has. He mentioned and demonstrated them in an interview with Ian. Close bolt for semi, open for full auto, and the recoil reduction system of the Ultimax machine gun. I would also like it if they switched to the Browning HP. I like it more than the 92, but it's not much of an upgrade.

>>32626153
>A light weight rifle that puts 30 rounds on target at several hundred yards reliably.
and you want spend millions switching it over to a what?
>A light weight rifle that puts 30 rounds on target at several hundred yards reliably.
....show me a rifle that actually brings real benefit for the expense of switching over.

>>32626216
>Piston
No, carrier tilt.

>>32626482
Is correct.

>>32626503
This is fucking dumb. Heavier guns, heavier ammo, harder to shoot repeatedly.

>>32626529
Carrier tilt, but no actual advantages. Not any more reliable, actually harder to clean, DI does not equal lack of barrel change, there's no reason to have multiple issued calibers for the average rifleman, folding stocks are a disadvantage.

>>32626683
IF .30-06 can't reliably punch through SAPI and ESAPI, what the fuck are you proposing? It's not like armor is some kind of magical anti-bullet forcefield. Taking rounds to the chest plate can still take you out of the fight. Moreover, it just means more rounds on target to kill no matter what you use.

>>32626708
In no fucking way, shape, or form is the military going to give troops even more bullshit weight to carry around with no need. Extra barrels are retarded unless you're the LMG guy.

>>32626812
Get fucking real and read a book, you have no idea what you're on about.

>>32626865
>Muh bolt action meme
Stop. AR10s are submoa accurate already.

>>32626895
>I literally don't know anything, the post

>>32627105
He said IV, not IIIA.

>>32629246
It's good. It's really fucking good. It's also really fucking expensive.

>>32632128
>What is the average budget request embellishment

ITT: Dunning Kruger extraordinaires.

>>32626153
Something that represents freedom across the globe, like the AKM.

>>32629246
$1000 extra per rifle than a gucci AR for no real benefit is pretty dumb.

>>32633593
Someone makes a .338 AR-10?

>>32626529
Reliability is almost always a function of magazines, not gas system. 99 out of every hundred jams in an AR can be traced to shitty mags or out of spec parts.

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>>32636665
>Reliability is almost always a function of magazines