Combat record of the ss

[WEHRMATCH INTENSIFIES]

>>32565294
SS divisions varied wildly in quality with many being more politically useful than militarily useful. Having a separate armed force duplicating everything up to and including a command structure is a logistical nightmare and was silly for a nation that already had problems in that area (doubly so when you consider some SS divisions took priority for better equipment despite being less competent in using it).

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>>32565316
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZDJUTYDiq8

Would the SS have been more effective embedded into normal Wehrmacht divisions like the MVSN or NKVD were?

Well, I've heard it said that Waffen-SS units only ever equalled the best the Wehrmacht had to offer, never exceeded them, and only a handful of them were able to manage even that. So, make of that what you will.

>>32565322
>SS divisions varied wildly in quality
Yes
>with many being more politically useful than militarily useful
I don't think SS divisions performed worse than their Wehrmacht counterparts.
Of course the divisions formed later in the war (lets say after 1943) lacked trained personnel and equipment but that was the case with Wehrmacht division aswell.
>Having a separate armed force duplicating everything up to and including a command structure is a logistical nightmare and was silly for a nation that already had problems in that area
That's correct and I think that raising more and more divisions over the time instead of replenishing the already existing ones lowered the value of all divisions aswell
>doubly so when you consider some SS divisions took priority for better equipment despite being less competent in using it).
Can you cite any reliable sources that SS divisions had priority over their Wehrmacht counterparts in terms of equipment?

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>>32565294
Hitler hooked them up with the best gear for their loyalty. It's kind of fucked up. They performed as well as any man tho.

Devotion to beliefs is a hell of a drug

t. Former muhreen infantry that is tired of saying we are the same thing as SS because we are "shock troops"

>>32568185
The concept of shock troops was well outdated by the time of WW2. It only really had a place in static warfare.

>>32565363
That would have defeated the point of them in the first place. They were meant to provide everything that the Field Army didn't, so incorporating them into Wehrmacht divisions would have meant the tasks they were staffed for would go neglected.

>>32568185
>Hitler hooked them up with the best gear for their loyalty.
Actually, they tended to have the worst gear.

From memoirs of one Slovak general I read that they were very troublesome, undisciplined, disliked by both Wehrmacht and their friendlies like Slovaks or Hungarians etc.

>>32568442
Except, no.

How do you like that rebuttal?

>>32565294
Early SS divisions such as 1. LSSAH, 2. Das Reich, 5. Wiking and later 9. Hohenstaufen and 10. Frundsberg were all well trained and equipped. Units like 12. Hitlerjungend and 7. Prinz Eugen were very tenacious but somewhat lacking in equipment. Other like 6. Nord and 4. Polizi were somewhere in-between with units like 21. Florian Geyer, 36. Driewilliger and 29. Russiche where basically ill equipped criminals, smart for 3. Totenkopf, but they had good equipment and better training.

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>>32565294

The tip of the spear.

The Waffen-SS were called upon for the most important offensives and defensive operations. The success of the entire army hinged on the performance of these units.

The Wehrmacht were a bunch of POG-ass conscripts and fucking arts students who were ripped away from their cushy lives and miserable. They had little fight in them.

The Waffen-SS (at least the proper early units) was an all volunteer force, like the 101st Airborne etc.

Of course their performance is going to be superior to fucking conscripts - bottom of the barrel trash. People seem to forget that.

There were also a bunch of hastily thrown together units in the final stages of WW2, but they were nothing but militias.

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>>32568872

Required:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmSH2VKz1KQ

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>>32565363
>Would the SS have been more effective embedded into normal Wehrmacht divisions like the MVSN or NKVD were?

Why would you do that?

People joined the SS to get away from the sloppy, un-patriotic and unmotivated bums infesting the Wehmacht - led by aristocratic throw backs of the 19th century German nobility.

Meanwhile the Waffen-SS were a volunteer force led from the very front by enthusiastic and ideological officers, often young. Why do you think the Waffen-SS has such a high attrition of junior officers?

They were down there, fighting with grenades and bayonets themselves.

>>32568872
Do you really think that wording things the way you did will lead to intelligent discussion?

Off yourself faggot

>>32568442
>>32568672

Yes and no.

Initially, they relied only on hand-me downs and surplus gear, often antiquated. But after their successes in France,select divisions were soon properly equipped.

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>>32568923

Like most of /k/, your kind are anti-intellectual and pedestrian. I have to use language that you can related to - similar to an ESPN broadcast about sports or some other nigger activity.

Do you understand now, my sub-human friend?

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>>32568957
Eat a dick good sir

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>>32568915
>People joined the SS to get away from the sloppy, un-patriotic and unmotivated bums infesting the Wehmacht - led by aristocratic throw backs of the 19th century German nobility.
This is the picture you have of them who fought some of the toughest battles?

>>32568923

Not an argument friend

>>32568957
If you are going to try to sound like an intellectual to score imaginary points on the internet I would recommend spellchecking before hitting the post button. Just some friendly advice, genosse.

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>>32569048

Grossdeutschland was the only Wehrmacht major unit to actually rival any of the premium Waffen-SS units in fighting quality, professionalism and morale, partly because they emulated the Waffen-SS.

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>>32569080

Still not argument, ass-frustrated beatnik.

Go get some exercised, because your brain is beginning to ferment from all the interracial pornography and Chinese cartoon sex.

>>32569092
You're really slipping now, I can only give you partial credit for that one. And I'm not the same anon you were discussing with before, I just came in to act as a grammar nazi. Guten abend.

>>32568957
What do you have to show for yourself that makes you any better than us?
Fuck that, what makes you any better than a hard working, blue collared black man? Fucking prove to me that your superior genes has gotten you further than a plumber in Detroit.
>>32569092
And this shit? I love fucking black pussy a bit more than white pussy and your freedom loving ass somehow has a problem with what kind of women I bed? Have you ever even slept with a woman anon?

>>32569162

/pol/ is down there -->

Take your off-topic faggotry elsewhere.

And for the record, I enjoy black pussy as much as the next man. But it's totally off topic.

>>32569082

What's a "premium unit"?

12 SS Panzer Hitlerjugend? Which got stopped cold during the Ardennes by one regiment from the 1st Infantry division and an M10 platoon?

Or 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich, which got run over by 2nd Armored Division and was only at regimental strength after Normandy.

Or 1st SS PanzerDivision Adolf Hitler, which suprised a logistics convoy and shot the POWs, then was completely unable to make any advance against actual combat troops.

>>32565294

Early war, probably true with the 1st and 2nd Divisions being created earlier before the shit hitting the fatherland. Late war, fuck anyone being drafted into the SS.

Which included a worthless Russian division, drafted Poles, captured British, some others. You want food? Fuck you, go steal from the locals. You want guns? Fucking steal from the enemy while you run away. Surrender? You weren't German to begin with so good for you, or fuck off.

>>32569082
Well, there was a lopsidedness with total fighting force. The Heer had to find troops to field what? 100 divisions? While the SS had to field and equip 15 divisions. Not to mention that at this same time the Luftwaffe had their won Paratrooper units to man. I am of course i'm speaking of the period of 1942 to 1943. Honestly it sounds like you dont want to give the Heer any credit.

>>32569196
Well the 2nd SS repelled pretty much all American attacks till the start of Operation Cobra despite getting carpet bombed and shot up by the USAAF and getting meager supplies and replacements.
Generally Waffen-SS divisions were often deployed non-stop on hot spots until they were completely grinded down. Then they were hastily refilled with conscripts, ethnic Germans who barely spoke German and POGs which obviously lowered their value.

>>32568888
>them quads
>that video not available in America
What da fug

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>>32569275

Yeah those are great points. The Heer was a broader service for sure.

I like to bring on the analogy that the Waffen-SS were closer to the Marines (greater focus and zeal on combat, different, often inferior gear, smaller budget) whereas the Wehrmacht are like the modern US Army. Far more resources, but a lot of shit-tier recruits, POGs and worthless NCOs.

At several time, the Wehrmacht also signed the most hazardous tasks to the SS, and then didn't bother to give proper support.

Varied.

Jochem Peiper was an excellent commander and the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler was very effective.

>Killing 800 reds and only losing 10 or so men

Granted this was 1943 but they were catching Reds with their pants down.

Reds sucked at war but excelled in surplus and manpower.

>>32569434

>Granted this was 1943 but they were catching Reds with their pants down.


The Red started fighting back at the end of 1941, and in 1942, had fought down to a stalemate, and regained the initiative in 1943.

>>32568915
This.

I suggest everyone to read Leon Degrelle's book Eastern Front.

A true saga of undying Loyalty, heroism and sacrifice for Europe.

>>32569471
>undying
>Germans on the Eastern Front after 1943

>laughs in Russian

>>32569453
Read a book homo,

The Reds won theaters but suffered lots of smaller disasters left and right.

>>32569528
Their honor lives eternal.

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>>32569632
its a shame there is no modern reich to fight for