Back up Iron Sights

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The next problem is where to mount lights and lasers so that they are accessible and still have a front BUIS. It can be a challenge. If a shooter is going to work at night they WILL need the flashlight and or laser, they MIGHT (once again never seen it happen) need the BUIS. As a Green Beret and a shooter I made a decision based on experience to stop fighting with BUIS problems and I don’t run them on my rifles. I have found it much easier to operate the rifle with he stock extended and without the BUIS I can mount every magnified optic I’ve seen and have a shootable, maneuverable RIFLE and use the optic with the correct eye relief. I’ve also found that it is much easier mount all my lights and lasers in very usable positions on the rail without BUIS interference. These are my thoughts based on my experiences and observations. Think about these when you are setting up your rifle and hopefully you end up with a really shootable rifle!

Take a look at the attached pictures

>OP image >>32564243
The one on the ATV was my first SF deployment to Afghanistan. Based on the mission and I chose to run an ACOG over a red dot. You can tell in the pic that I had a rear BUIS on the rifle and had to mount the optic forward and collapse the stock; I also was just like other shooters and thought that the stock was supposed be collapsed because it was cool etc. I didn’t know enough about shooting then!

>imagie in >>32564258
The picture out in the desert was my last SF deployment to Iraq. You can see the stock is extended, the Elcan Spectre DR 1-4 was mounted all the way back and no BUIS. The Spectre DR was a great solution to everything I might encounter from working in urban areas to open terrain. You’ll also notice the rifle has a longer free float rail, a CMC trigger, more ergonomically correct pistol grip and some other items that offered increased performance and solid reliability. In the time between these 2 deployments I got involved in competitive shooting and learned a lot more about shooting and how to set up my gear to be more effective! You’ll notice I have plenty of room on the rail for my flashlight and laser to go anywhere I needed them to be. You’ll probably notice there’s not a laser currently on the rifle. My TTP was to keep my LA-5/PEQ15 (laaaaaaaser) and NODS together, when I put on NODS, I put on the LA-5/PEQ15. The LA-5 was super easy to zero without shooting also.

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The other picture (attached to this post) you see of how my current rifles are set shows continued development as a shooter. A common them is they all have variable power scopes either 1-4 or 1-6. I have found that I can do everything I can do with a red dot with a variable power scope on 1x but when targets get small, are at distance or are hard to see……the 4x or 6x really shines and a red dot can’t give you the same capability. My current philosophy is ;if I’m going to put an optic on my rifle and add weight and spend money, its’ going to be a 1- something variable optic. Well that’s all I’ve got for now, I hope you all enjoyed this article. Take care and I wish you the best in your shooting!

-Frank Proctor

So you're trying to tell me buis is dumb because one guy says he has never seen primary optics fail?

And I was never aware low profile or micro BUIS got in the way of anything.

>>32564309
With optics like the ACOG or the Elcan that have a short eye relief it can present an issue to mount BUIS behind them. That said I'd rather have them, all else being equal.

>>32561081
>>>32561081

>>32564309

a USPSA Grand Master and a Green Beret. so yeah, Proctor's got something to say when it comes to shooting.

>>32564381
So everything Proctor says on shooting is rock solid?

>>32564455

i wouldn't trust him on how to skeet shoot, but i'd listen to what he has to say about ARs.

plus, y'know... this article showing a selection of rifles carried by Green Berets last year shows the same lack of BUIS:
http://www.defensereview.com/tactical-ar-15m4m4a1-carbine-aftermarket-accessories-for-military-combat-applications-the-competition-to-combat-crossover-part-iii/
relevant quote:
>One thing you may have noticed with most of the rifles shown thus far is the lack of a full set of back-up iron sights (front and rear BUIS). Despite what the “tactical experts” say about back up iron sights beeing a must on any tactical gun, a lot of soldiers, myself included, have had no issues with either red dots or magnified optics going down on them in combat. Is it a good idea to have a set of back-up irons on your rifle? Yes, but these guys are using their rifles in harm’s way rigged like they are. If anything, their choice to not run back up irons is a testament to the durability of the current issued optics.

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>>32564534
>>32564282
good stuff dude, thanks for the read

>>32564605
Flat Dark Earth is the worst thing to happen to Firearms Aesthetics 2015/2016

>>32564309
>>32564357
well you can still carry the BUIS on your person if not on the rifle. you're going to remove any broken optic anyway.

>>32564282
im a bit confused by this how does the flashlight not block the scope? it looks like it should at least obscure the bottom half.

So he's saying that people buy buis because they heard a cool operator say they should, but they're dumb and shouldn't and they should not as he suggests since he's an operator

K

>>32564924
Slapping irons on a gun after the optic fails seems about as useful as having a no optic range day, just to see who can get the best guess-group on target.
Door kicking is one thing but actually hitting something at distance isn't going to work with irons you slap on

>>32564938
It might be hard to tell from the picture's perspective but they're offset and not in line of sight of the scope.

>>32564939
He gives very clear and salient reasons as to why BUIIs can be deleterious to the optimal configuration and usage of a rifle.

Bait.

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>BUIS behind optic interfering with eye relief
Sounds like a job for the LR-300!

>>32565313
>Bait.
Bait

>Buy memebus pro rear
>but unity Tactical fusion hub
>never have problem with optic interference or loss of light and DBAL mounting solutions ever again
>???
>profit

>>32564243
Remember, these guys have IR and visible lasers on their weapons. If their primary optic fails, they're told to use their visible laser as their aiming device.

>>32564938
Looks like it's 3 o'clock.

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>>32566060
>Unity tactical

>>32564605
No dude you HAVE to be able to co-witness® with your B. U. I. S. ™ in order to actually operate.

gosh, this is a lot of words.

aren't all of these problems solved by using 45-degree offset?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j22CGzs5Vik

>>32566081
he has guns without lasers though >>32564282
only the optic, no backups at all

>>32566224
It's also solved by just ignoring the entire article and just doing whatever you want. Most people aren't using the same ultra durable optics special forces do. If your holosun breaks at the range it's nice to just be able to flip up two pieces of steel and keep shooting.

>>32566224
The problems he speaks of are only relevant when using something like an Acawg which needs to be mounted as rearward as possible to make up for the shitty eye relief.

If you're using a 1-6 you can easily nestle the rear BUIS underneath the ocular lens.

>>32566250

it's the same Aimpoints, EOTechs, ACOGs, ELCANs, and the occasional VCOG as everybody else.

>I can't believe SF don't use BUIS!

Maybe this is new to /k/ but the high-end military dudes have been doing this on purpose for half a decade, and most infantry units don't care about them either way.

>>32566224
Why buy pointless gimmick gear like irons when anything that breaks your sight is going to break your rifle anyway?

Bring a handgun, and friends with rifles.

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>>32566274
Some guys do

See pic
The guy on the right has at least a front BUIS

>>32564282
>A common them is they all have variable power scopes either 1-4 or 1-6. I have found that I can do everything I can do with a red dot with a variable power scope on 1x

No they can't. Variable scopes even on the 1x setting don't have infinite eye relief, which is a big advantage for red dots when shooting quickly.

>>32564357
No. ACOGs were even designed specifically so that you could slip a little BUIS in behind them.

>Many shooters with magnified optics on the gun will have to mount the optic forward on the receiver because the rear BUIS is in the way.

There are a ton of mounts that allow you to slip some folding BUIS in the back without affecting a thing on the scope placement.

>That causes a problem with eye relief and most shooters will collapse the stock to get the correct eye relief and view through their scope.

You don't need to collapse a stock to get proper eye relief. People managed to get proper eye relief with fixed stock rifles for a long time. Collapsing stocks allow you to get a good LOP for a better grip position, really not a huge factor in head placement and eye relief.

And eye relief is irrelevant for any discussion of CCOs.
>>32564258
Somehow hundreds of thousands of soldiers have made it work. If somebody can fit a light and IR box on an M4's handguards behind a fixed front sight, it's no issue to fit a light and laser behind an extended freefloat tube with a front BUIS. Look at his photo. Miles and miles of rail.

>>32564269
>collapse the stock; I also was just like other shooters and thought that the stock was supposed be collapsed because it was cool etc. I didn’t know enough about shooting then!
How the fuck did the Army teach my basic bitch ass about LOP, but fail to tell SF? The fact that he's on a fucking ATV might also be a factor in a collapsed stock- gee when you transport a collapsible rifle sometimes you collapse it, doesn't mean it's intended to stay collapsed when you start shooting it.

>>32566294
Yes, TF Black and the like do whatever they want. A few use irons. The majority of them don't mount irons.

>>32566294
Are those just standard A2 flash hiders?

>>32566303

>>32564269
My TTP was to keep my LA-5/PEQ15 (laaaaaaaser) and NODS together, when I put on NODS, I put on the LA-5/PEQ15

What? Why? You have miles of rails. Put the IR box on the fucking rifle so you have one less thing jiggling in a pouch to fuck with.

**
Ok this gave me a brain anuerism and goes directly against all conventional and SPESUL training the military ever gave me. It goes against pretty much any other shooting advice I've seen around, even other spesul forces. This guy sounds like he's being a contrarian for the sake of it.

>>32566303
>Somehow hundreds of thousands of soldiers have made it work. If somebody can fit a light and IR box on an M4's handguards behind a fixed front sight, it's no issue to fit a light and laser behind an extended freefloat tube

Soldiers can make anything work, that doesn't mean it's the optimal solution, usually it isn't.

The optimal CG for PEQs in the 5-95 spectum is on a 13" rail, but that doesn't work with a 10" barrel. Pushing the PEQ forward means taking off the irons (which are useless anyway).

Indoors, point shooting and handguns are a backup. Outdoors, friends with longarms.

>>32566288
>anything that breaks your sight is going to break your rifle anyway
this is borderline platitude. well how's this any better than OP with a single-anecdote persuasive essay? are there AARs that show that?

if not, then why does "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" apply to firearms in general, but stop at the case of shooting a rifle beyond 50 yards when the cartridge potentially goes 500 yards? sounds just as good as platitudes go

>>32564269
>zero without shooting
What?

Interesting how some people do not bother with irons on their rifles. Bill Blowers who's a SWAT guy doesn't use BUIS because his reasoning is more the same as Proctors. He uses an optic, either an IR illuminator like the DBAL or a B.E Meyers laser that acts as a second sighting system.

>>32566354

howabout the (admittedly non-representative due to insufficient sample size) pictures of gear from >>32564534 with about 1/5 rifles wearing BUIS?

>>32566129
Is this an ironic gif or are they actually good stuff? I have been wanting a micro fusion hub for awhile.

I have backup irons because I like shooting irons, plus it allows me to switch optics and not give a fuck.

>>32566450
I'm assuming that anon's compliment is genuine.

>I stopped carrying a compass because my GPS works really great. Only luddities carry compasses.

I mean, you do you. I won't change anybody's opinion anyway, but me personally? I'll still carry them both thank you very much.

>>32566354
Having useless extra widgets putting dead weight on a combat weapon is dumb. Optics are as reliable as the M4 itself, so unless you're carrying a backup rifle, you're a hypocrite.

Iron sights are useless indoors.
Iron sights are useless at long range.
Your buddies are the backup at medium ranges, while you point shoot half a mag and take cover to get back in the fight.

The burden of proof is on you to demonstrate how iron sights fill a critical mission requirement when the professional consensus has been "what are those" for almost a decade.

>>32566288
>anything that breaks your sight is going to break your rifle anyway
Found the guy with an SWFA

>>32566473
Compasses fill a need. They are fast, and GPS is not terribly reliable in complex terrain. Of course, you should be using terrain association in the first place.

Irons are no more reliable than optics or the rifle itself and they are slower and less accurate.

>>32566496

the Super Snipers have a great reputation for reliability, i thought.

>>32566496
I don't even know what SWFA is. Googling says it's a walmart style optic, but I've never used anything cheaper than a Eotech.

I guess if you have a walmart optic, you might want BUIS for ranges. But for those of us deploying, with ordinary optics like ACOGs, Eotechs, CCOs and T2s, reliability is not a problem.

>>32566438
SWAT have need for iron sights because they don't go to war. What would they break taking their rifle out of its case?

>>32566512
Had a buddy have his ACOG take a bullet. He made use of his irons. Irons are less good than a working ACOG, but a whole lot better than having nothing.

>>32566495
>Iron sights are useless indoors.
>Iron sights are useless at long range.
Less useful than optics, but still usable, and a whole lot better than nothing.

A set of BUIS weighs almost nothing, and it doesn't mess with eye relief of most optics. The only real argument against them is to say how turbo reliable optics are. And yeah, they are pretty reliable, but backups don't interfere with anything.

Some SF guy writes an article about how he doesn't like them? Ok sure, I'm sure he does him quite well, though his article does make some weird comments. But for me? "internet article" vs "military training, military contracted private training, in-person SF range instruction, and experience" makes me err on the side of just sticking the fucking BUIS on.

Arguments this in the weeds are absurd though. This is like those 300+ comment arguments about dump pouches.

>>32566582

the whole point of the article is "if you're putting your rifle config (in terms of LOP and laser placement)/optics location in a shitty place just to put BUIS on your rifle, drop the BUIS."

More pics of the atv?

>>32566303
>You don't need to collapse a stock to get proper eye relief. People managed to get proper eye relief with fixed stock rifles for a long time. Collapsing stocks allow you to get a good LOP for a better grip position, really not a huge factor in head placement and eye relief.

Shut the fuck up. Confirmed for never having shot an A4 while wearing body armor. Motherfucker you spit out a bunch of talking points from ARFCOM and gathered your experience on XBOX.

>>32566711
Shot and A2 with irons, and later ACOG mounted on it with an IBA on.

So yeah, I guess technically you got me, I never shot an A4 with armor on.

>>32564357
If it's that much of an issue then mount the BUIS in front of the optic.

I disagree with the dude, mainly because irons can easily coexist with optics and the weight is negligible.

>>32564243

I fully understand that my 1-6x optic pretty much invalidates my BUIS 99% of the time, I would still rather have them than not, especially if the situation is more dire than a weekly range visit.

>>32566711
I also second this.

>>32564258
>His right arm is longer than his left arm by a substantial amount.

>>32566303
>You don't need to collapse a stock to get proper eye relief
> grip position, really not a huge factor in head placement and eye relief

Sometimes it can be hard to ID BS on the net.

This is not one of those times, thank you for identifying your opinions as trash.

>ACOGs were even designed specifically so that you could slip a little BUIS in behind

Yeah? Well it doesn't work faggot, as you would know if you had ever used one on deployment. A well-positioned ACOG leaves issue BUIS with the flip-up part trapped under. So you have to take the optic off if you want to use the BUIS, and it is constantly flipping up to an angle half-way to hover distractingly at the bottom of your FOV. This tends to damage the spring so the BUIS (like your mom's dick) can't stand up for use if you do take off the sight.

>>32566730
>>32566730
>Shot and A2 with irons, and later ACOG mounted on it with an IBA on.
>So yeah, I guess technically you got me, I never shot an A4 with armor on.

Yeah you're right, short-stocking is an optimal approach for the hideously short eye relief for an ACOG....shithead. Having a shorter length of pull is absolutely important in proper head placement for eye relief. Especially while wearing armor.

>many shooters who have back up iron sights on their rifles hinder their ability to shoot the rifle well and operate the things they WILL use just to have BUIS on the rifle.
Considering all I have on top of my rifle is an aimpoint, a lightswitch, and the top part of my A2 FSB, I think I'll continue to have the completely harmless KAC BUIS that makes a nice redundancy and not toss it out because some oper8or on the internet told me that using BUIS because oper8ors on the internet say to is dumb. Unless someone can tell me exactly why that KAC sight is hindering my setup.

>>32566794
>Sometimes it can be hard to ID BS on the net.
>This is not one of those times, thank you for identifying your opinions as trash.
Back in the day in fucking basic they made people put nose to charging handle on A2s while wearing IBAs. That is still closer than you need to be to use an ACOG. If boots can do it, you can do it.

>A well-positioned ACOG leaves issue BUIS with the flip-up part trapped under. So you have to take the optic off if you want to use the BUIS

No shit. Were you planning on using BUIS through a magnified optic anyway?

>UIS, and it is constantly flipping up to an angle half-way to hover distractingly at the bottom of your FOV. This tends to damage the spring so the BUIS (like your mom's dick) can't stand up for use if you do take off the sight.

Because KAC BUIS are the only ones in existence?

>>32566794
>A well-positioned ACOG leaves issue BUIS with the flip-up part trapped under

Then it isn't well positioned, is it?

>So you have to take the optic off if you want to use the BUIS

Not a problem. Co-witness is a meme.

>>32566820
OUNCES MAKE POUNNNNNNNNNNDSSSSSSSSSS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


YOUR AIMPOINT IS INDESTRUCTABLEEELEELGRRTBA DR

>>32566820
It's fine, OP is making a b8 thread with a poorly written blogpost from a guy who thinks everyone uses fixed-mag optics with dogshit eye relief and apparently doesn't know QD mounts exist.

>>32566826
>Because KAC BUIS are the only ones in existence?

In line units, yeah.

If you're a supply or intel dude who will never fire their weapon in anger, maybe you have the time and energy to buy personal BUIS to fantasize about from the inside of a cordon.

>>32566288
>what are batteries
Not everything that will make an optic useless will destroy your rifle.

>>32566851
>time an energy to buy BUIS
So, like 30s? Just get the fucking micro KAC sights from the USMC being sold on eBay for $30. Problem solved.
>>32566794
>So you have to take the optic off if you want to use the BUIS
Gonna have to do that anyways with any magnified optic retard. QD mounts are a thing.

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>>32566820
Clearly you just don't know what you're doing, I was exactly like you until I read Proctor's enlightening words and immediately ditched my rear BUIS. My setup and performance were optimized for optimal performance as soon as it came off. It seems so clear to me now, looking at older pics like this, how that ironsight was impeding my rifle.

>>32566495
>Iron sights are useless indoors.
>Iron sights are useless at long range.
t. born in 1996.

Red dots only work faster at close range. Irons and an RDS takes the same amount of time roughly to line up a long range shot. Both are definitely usable at 500m. Of course an ACOG will be better at range, but the fundamentals still apply and will only allow you to see your target better, not shoot better.

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>>32566538
>I've never used anything cheaper than a Eotech.

>>32565111
For specific optics with eye-relief problems like ACOGs. Just because this guy seems to think every optic under the sun is like that doesn't mean you should too.

>>32566606
Or ya know, get mounts that are designed to work with and around irons. There's a ton on the market, it's not like irons are this fixed variable to be worked around. People have been designing them to compliment each other for a while now.

>>32566943
> QD mounts are a thing.
I have no idea why this aspect is being overlooked so hard in this thread. The entire fucking point of them is so you can quickly detach your borked glass and deploy your BUIS.

>>32566538
>Eotechs
>reliability is not a problem
There is a federal lawsuit that says otherwise.

>>32567042
Not him, but I will say my personal 512 never had an issue shifting zero. It actually held zero quite well, never varying more than 1 MOA off when being taken off and put back on. I still turned that shit in when the recall was announced. That lack of quality control kills trust in a company.

>>32567020

so what, risers and chin welds for everybody? 45 degree irons?

point is, if you can run BUIS, have BUIS. if you can't, you lose less capability than the interwebs would make you believe. i have two ARs right now. one's got irons and a red dot, one's going to have a 1-6x optic only.

>>32566060
Thank you for showing me this. I didn't know I needed this.

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>>32567069
>so what, risers and chin welds for everybody?
No. It's like you're being a pedantic faggot on purpose.
>point is, if you can run BUIS, have BUIS
Way to backtrack your shit. Everyone can run BUIS, most modern mounting systems for ARs are designed around having BUIS on the rifle. It isn't an issue if you put more than 5 seconds of thought into it.

>>32566972
That setup looks disgustingly heavy and difficult to use. How in the hell are you even able to use your optics with your BUIS in the way like that?

>not having a QD mount with dummy cord
These are the nation's best?

>>32564243
I like the triggering of mall ninjas going on in this thread. Good post, op.

>>32566785
One arm for C-Clamping action, and one for fisting.

>>32567140
Everyone that disagrees or points out flawed logic is a mall ninja.

>>32567170
Everyone who spent money on a piece of equipment which they will never use is a mall ninja. Unless youre actually in a combat zone, what are the actual chances of your optic going down at a critical moment? Even if you were in combat, most people still choose not to use them. Its an internet operator fad.

>>32567201
Are you seriously splitting hairs over people having little $50 pieces of polymer/metal that do nothing to harm the gun whatsoever

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>>32567201
>Everyone who spent money on a piece of equipment which they will never use is a mall ninja.
So I guess actually shooting your guns doesn't constitute "using" now. Good to know.

>>32567201
>Most people choose not to use them
Not in my experience. And I'll trust my experience over changing up how I do things over a blurb on the internet

>Nobody on /k/ goes into combat
>Implying

>>32567214
I dont care what you do with your rifle but putting unnecessary stuff on it because a youtube operator told you it was a good idea does make you a mall ninja

>>32567238
No one ever wants a SHTF rifle either apparently. Or a clone build. If the anons here had their way the only ARs would be full-length with government profile barrels, either all optic and no irons or all irons and no optic, no lights, no foregrips of any sort, and A2 FHs only. I wonder what started this regressive trend...

>>32567257
I put it on because the BUIS literally does nothing to harm my rifle, makes me happy, and should things go south I intend to use my rifle for protection and like to have as many redundancies for its basic functionality as practically possible because I'm not compromising my SHTF gat's capabilities because I was such a fucking Jew I didn't want to drop $50 on a goddamned rearsight.

>>32567255
>>Nobody on /k/ goes into combat
>>Implying
I know more people with combat deployments who browse /k/ than don't.
>>32567260
People being contrarian for the sake of it. I could say the sky is blue and some faggot would reply telling me that it's not really blue and that's just the color light it reflects.

>>32567257
>utting unnecessary stuff on it because a youtube operator told you it was a good idea
As opposed to not having stuff because a blog operator told you it was a bad idea....

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>>32567260
>I wonder what started this regressive trend...
Povertyfags being able to into AR when the bottom fell out of its market.

>>32567309
>Povertyfags

Why is it that every month I progressively like you less?

>Implying guns are for the rich
>Being an elitist shitbag

So you don't like the second amendment then.

>>32567116

i've had problems fitting BUIS under variable and fixed power optics on ARs while having a reasonable chin weld. so i elected to not have BUIS rather than compromise my primary sighting solution.

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>>32567337
>Why is it that every month I progressively like you less?
Probably because you're a worthless povertyfag, Iunno senpaitachi. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>32564243
>fighting in the dry desert bias
Water and cold weather are worst enemies of the glass.

>>32564243

You didn't need to write a blog for all this. Let me just reword the nova of a story your retarded ass wrote, save you a lot of time.

Some times your shit breaks or your batteries die. Good to have back up irons for this.

Done.

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>>32567309
Also this.
>>32567337
That's not what he's implying.

Poorfags go out and buy cheap ARs now and can't afford to put anything nice on them, so they buy a PA MD, or a holosun and put it on. They can't afford the extra $50-$100 for a decent BUIS and they're too stupid to get the KAC sight off of ebay so they make dumb fucking posts saying, "REEEE BUIS is a meme and no one ever uses it," to make themselves feel better about being poor assholes and seek justification for their decisions. Repeat ad nauseum for any piece of gear that doesn't come stock on a budget AR.

There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford an ACOG, or the latest Gucci rail. Just don't be a triggered little faggot about it when people call you out for being poor and trying to justify your shit purchases/choices.

>>32567297
Most people dont need a reason to not buy something unnecessary.

>>32567388

real tl;dr

you don't really need BUIS.

>>32564243
100-300 buis that will rarely get used, plus even cheaper optics are super reliable inside their recoil tolerances.

>>32567410
You don't really need an optic or even a gun for that matter. What's your point?

>>32567416

the point is that you don't need a BUIS on your AR as much as you think you do.

y'know...

based on competition and real world experience by this dude who was SF as well as other dudes who were SF (see >>32564534)

>>32567427
>based on competition and real world experience by this dude
Is this the same guy who doesn't know that QD mounts exist and that most optics don't have the pantsonhead retarded eye relief of an ACOG?

>>32567427
> you don't need a BUIS on your AR as much as you think you do.
You don't need a 30 round mag or a quick-release button as much as you think you do either. Not even the guy you were replying to, but what is your point?

>>32567427
Yeah, except I read your blog post and my own personal experience and training (as well as that of others in this thread) says he's a fucking retard. It's OK, not everyone is perfect, even the vaunted GBs.

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>>32567373
>Probably because I am a senile old faglord

Gotcha

>>32567439

the same dude who probably doesn't want to put an optic on a rifle with a way of losing it quickly and who argues that maybe you shouldn't collapse your stock completely and isn't using an ACOG in any photo.

>>32567451

that you shouldn't put your rifle in a shitty setup just to put a BUIS on your rifle.

>>32567458

and maybe if you bought decent optics you wouldn't worry about your holosun dumping on you.

i'd trust a handful of green berets and USPSA GMs over a bunch of anons who like to shoot Weaver.

I don't use lasers or flashlights on my AR and I like my micro red dot all the way in the rear. your points are invalid mister special ops

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>>32564243
What about this?

>>32567470
>and maybe if you bought decent optics you wouldn't worry about your holosun dumping on you.
>i'd trust a handful of green berets and USPSA GMs over a bunch of anons who like to shoot Weaver.
You must have me mistaken for someone else anon.

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>>32567476
And this?

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>>32567397
>There's nothing wrong with not being able to afford an ACOG, or the latest Gucci rail. Just don't be a triggered little faggot about it when people call you out for being poor and trying to justify your shit purchases/choices.

Fuck you hit me right on the head. I have this because reasons.

If some horror befalls it. I will accept my fate.

>>32567470
>QD mounts
>a way of losing it quickly
What are you doing anon...

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>>32567470
Explain to me how a setup that has a red dot (or any optic that has half-decent eye relief for that matter) is made shitty by having BUIS.

Go on, look at this pic and explain it to me how it's shit by the inclusion of a BUIS.

>>32567549
MUH POINTLESS THING

That's how.

>>32567470
Literally using an ACOG in the first photo.

>>32567491
Kinda cumbersome.

>>32567476
45 degree rail is better but needs to be even more compact and lighter. This is back up sight...

>>32567476
>>32567491
Pretty much only good for memes.

In all seriousness that shit should only be used if you're 3-gunning and running a magnified optic and need to transition between further and closer targets quickly.

>>32564889

that's bronze, faggot

>>32566711
STOLON VALLER!

>>32567549

it's not. red dots aren't the point of it, fuckface.

it's magnified optics like a VCOG or similar 1-4x or 1-6x, or ELCANs, or ACOGs where dropping a BUIS and the requirements to set your rifle up around it force compromises in your primary sighting system that Proctor's arguing against.

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>>32567462
Insulting me doesn't make you any less poor anon.
>>32567470
> doesn't want to put an optic on a rifle with a way of losing it quickly
Ahahahaha fucking suckstart your nugget you fucking fag.
>>32567522
As the other dude said, so long as you're not shrieking on /k/ that your scope is just as good as a Nightforce, it's good. I enjoyed the shit out of my MD-ADS for years but not once did I ever say it was the complete equal of an Aimpoint MD. PA is more than sufficient for the use 99.5% of the guns posted here will see.
>>32566711
>Confirmed for never having shot an A4 while wearing body armor
Careful, you'll trigger the "REEEE MANLET" spergies.

>>32564243
If you don't mind me asking, what made you pursue service in the Green Berets?

I've been debating finishing college and enlisting afterwards, or just dropping out now and enlisting.

I want to become a Green Beret, then hopefully move onto a career in spooky SAD/SOG operations. However, the CIA website lists one of the requirements as having a four-year degree.

>>32567652
OP is not Frank Proctor, he's just C+P an article

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>>32567616
>Insulting me doesn't make you any less poor anon.

That's what my full-time job is for bitch.

>>32567614
Except OP specifically mentions red dots alongside ACOGs. Fuck face.

>>32567652
It's a linked article, idiot.

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>>32567397
Ooohh, I get it now. So you're one of those /ARG/ fags that think that anything that isn't the price of the gun must obviously not work. Good to know your opinion is shit and that you hate the second amendment

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>>32567994

>just use irons because 2poor4glass

>>32564243
Can't wait until we fight a war in a country that's not a desert after phasing out BUIs and everyone starts crying about their optics failing.

>>32568277

since when was Afghanistan a desert

since when did we stop doing sneaky shit in central/south America

>>32567994
/arg/ regularly tells people to buy PA prism's and Strike Eagles if that is what their budget allows

you sound like the anon who was asshurt after being told his Barska was not comparable to an ACOG

>>32568366
>/arg/ regularly tells people to buy PA prism's

The fuck it does. When I asked about it I was told to avoid it.

May get one for my AK anyway.

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>>32567491

>Buck Doyle

You mean Buck Angel.

>>32568388
Funny, because I can search 'prism' in the archives and see nothing but neutral or positive comments.

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If I take all the advice from low context articles or copy things just because I saw operators do it, I'd have a no irons gun, carry 3+1 mags all in upside down Fastmag pouches, have a bunch of handgrenade pouches on the back of my plate carrier, a giant fixed blade knife on one shoulder, a whip antenna on the other, a boot knife, chainmail armor, a Hello Kitty backpack (probably on an ALICE frame somehow), an ultrahigh cut helmet with add on ear attachment armor, a ballcap under the helmet, facepaint, an IFAK stuffed with tampons, and a helicopter lanyard even though I don't jump out of helicopters. Somehow though, even with all those things legitly operator operators do, I think I'd look like a clown doing them at the same time.

Monkey see-monkey do is a terrible way to set up gear. Even what SF guys say might not be "right" as in relevant for you specifically and arguments like this whole fucking thread are stupid. Have BUIS and no problems with it so far? Keep 'em. Have BUIS and somehow having it fuck your shit up? Drop 'em. Why does it matter what some SF guy in a totally different situation and environment use?

>>32568490

I'm telling you that you're wrong. I was strongly advised by /arg/ to upgrade away from this >>32567522 and that the only thing from PA worth considering was the RDS.

>>32568533
So you are a moron as well as a liar, that is not a prism.

>>32568567
>So you are a moron

No shit it's not a prism, I am saying /arg/ displayed a huge dislike of anything Primary Arms that isn't the red dot

Fucking. Retard.

>>32568586
And I can search the archive and see nothing that supports what you say.

>>32568603
Prove it, cuz I don't believe you for a second. The cheap scope of choice when I was asking was the Vortex whatever-the-fuck.

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>>32564243
Problem solved get ak. Irons and optics with out issues.

>>32569867
>not going full fabarm for that real spetsnaz look

>>32569867
>Dust cover mounted optic
Just fuck my zero up senpai

>>32568517
You're stabbing in the dark at a non-existent antagonist here. Nobody is demanding you conform. It's just information sharing. A man sharing his experiences and what he feels works best for him. Food for thought and all that.
I really didn't expect /k/ to get into such a flame war about this subject. Why was this thread so uncivil? What can we do to ensure more civil discourse in the future?

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>>32569904
Think again my nigga
Arsenal sm-13 mount
>>32569901
Nah too much shit

>>32566495
>Iron sights are useless at long range.

Your opinion is discarded.

>>32564889

That's bronze, but I don't understand it. I was looking at Sp2022's and the nitron ones are like 490, on average, but the fucking FDE ones are like 630. That's more than the nitron one with a threaded barrel.

What's so fucking special about FDE that people jack up prices for it?

>>32567522
I have that scope. I love it. It's a little heavy and to save weight next time I might just get the compact x3 or 4 power.

>>32566254
Exactly, this article is basically: "why I don't use buis with my acog."

So OP, what you're saying is that if I build a gun and want to include like a scope or holographic sights I shouldn't put a pair like back-up sights like magpuls?

What the fuck am I supposed to do if my optics break or whatever and I can't use them?

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>>32566754
This is what Canada does with the BUIS in their C7A2. Got a sight mounted forward of the C79 optic.

>>32569979
Wtf Daewoo stop goofin me