/OG/ - Operator General: Not Getting Shot

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>Cover
taken from:
http://www.tactical-life.com/combat-handguns/cover-versus-concealment/

Concealment is exactly what it sounds like. Concealment “conceals” you from the view of the bad guy. Any object that prevents the enemy from seeing you is technically concealment. A thick bush could be concealment. For that matter, a closed set of window blinds also qualifies. The problem arises when the good guys confuse concealment, a.k.a. not being seen, with cover.

Cover is any material that can reasonably be expected to stop the travel of a bullet fired from small arms such as handguns, shotguns, and rifles. Cover will consist of hardened, thick, bulky material and manmade structures.

Typically in the military, cover is constructed by soldiers who fill hundreds of sandbags and stack them several layers thick. Sand, dirt, gravel etc. are excellent materials for bunker building. In the civilian world, brick and mortar, cinder blocks filled with poured concrete and heavy wooden timbers are all considered good cover.

https://youtu.be/K0SjIC1gYTA
https://youtu.be/nyFUXXI67KY


Also wanted to include this:

https://youtu.be/nJ_uwRJLPmA

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>Armor
The two most common types of plates available today are either Steel or Ceramic.

Standard weights are typically ~7lbs per plate, about 15lbs per pair. Lightweight plates can be found but will generally cost more.

Important features to consider are plate curvatures and coatings. AR500 plates will require an anti-spall coating. Both types of plates benefit from being curved. Triple-Curve seems to be rather comfortable. Swimmers Cut plates will also aid in mobility (at the expense of surface area), followed by shooters cut and then SAPI cuts.

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>>32562705
>Shooting Positions with Body Armor
https://youtu.be/fBGXmk3dcik

>PC & Armor Basics: Moving and Shooting
https://youtu.be/S1V-mao6AuU

>>32562705
gearfag here, while I understand you posted this to demonstrate proper plate position I will never recommend AR500 for anything. 3 or 4 recalls for shitty low grade steel that won't stop anything is reason enough to avoid them like the plague. Add to that steel is fuckheavy and offers little protection against carbide penetrator rounds, and the ceramic can be had for around the same price if you are patient and wait for a sale (black Friday is the best). tl;dr AVOID AR500 or ANY STEEL ballistic protection.

>>32564514
Fair enough. While I don't recommend AR500 brand AR500 either, I believe some companies' steel plates can be trusted. I have a pair of AR650 swimmer's cut plates from Spartan Armor Systems. Once I got lvl IV ceramics they became my training plates.

I come to /k/ for these generals now. Love the information posted here.

Is there an /og/ reading list yet?

>>32564817
I've never seen /og/ until now so I don't think there's enough info for a reading list

Can I operate with a 7-8+1 shot lever action? Kek

>tfw pump action/ semi auto requires special license here

God dammit why did the internet have to kill itself today

>>32565320
If you can operate with a pumpslugger, you can operate with a blacked out henry.

bumping with interest

Can someone rep pill me on the best spot to put an aimpoint/ other red dot style optic?
Some people put them fairly close to the eye, but some people have them near the end of the rifle.

What's the point of doing this?

>>32565585
Faster target acquisition

>>32565696
for rear or front?

>>32564479
Pretty good use of cover here. You can also see the guy kill his light when he is not deliberately aiming his weapon.

Fights indoors are usually very fast, very close, and notable for their poor visibility. That guy's camera adjusted to the dim indoors way faster than his eyes did. These are things to consider and train to overcome.

Now, in terms of not getting shot: be aggressive enough soon enough, and be looking for cover. You need to be aware of your movement options, and those of your enemies.

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>>32564602
fur is that you.

>>32564514
> carbide penetrator rounds

You expect to be getting shot at a lot with armor piercing? I think people give the whole AP protection too much weight, DESU.

To be fair though my personal plates are lvl4 ceramic, but not because of that.

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Some basic reading for a good introduction to tactics piece is Tactical Preschool.
https://tgace.wordpress.com/category/tactical-preschool/
I used it to teach a couple people and the simple yet well design pictures with good descriptions are very good to explain what you have trouble doing.

I also recall something along the line called Bodyguard Bible online going through CP procedures and tips and tricks but when I look it up all I find is a book.

>>32561081
Can anyone put together a list of training companies (that we can contribute to) and the areas they train at?
I live in central MD and the only companies I know of that train near me are an expensive Isreali school (Isreali Tacical School) and a school run by IDPA masters (Dynamic Defense Concepts, which I have trained with and am signed up for more classes).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2ochrT0C8A

any faults in this vid?

>>32566359

Idk, the one titled "limited exposure" in the first post is fucking bs, I can kind of understand from an officers view. However it is just a tribe member shilling bs for gov contracts.

>>32566008
>>32564514

Steel is also inherently weak against high-velocity rounds. M193 penetrates most AR500, and so does M855A1.

>>32566359
There's some decent basics there but those guys are not fluid nor do I believe they have ever been on the receiving end of hostile fire.

All that backpedaling is retarded.

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>>32566359
if i ever learnd something. never walk backwarts. just never.

Protipp: Look for boardingteam learning videos.

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>>32565947
How the hell did you know? I vowed to drop namefagging when I started this general...

Excerpt from the Patriot Fireteam Manual.jpg?

>>32564817
Nothing yet. General notion of /OG/ still needs to be refined and we need your ideas/contributions...

>>32565947
wut book?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67tWRCeicHc

10/10 CQB guide

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>>32566658
>How the hell did you know?
call it a hunch, and remembering your kit off /gq/

>>32566899
soldier pocket book 2012 edition.
I can upload more pics of it if you guys wish.

>>32567001
sharp memory! chicombro perhaps?
More pics would be awesome, thank you!

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>>32567032
>chicombro perhaps
yeah, I'm messing with a polish lv-mbav atm

muh PC >>32556692

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>>32567100

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>>32567117

McLovin' this material. Takeaways so far...

>>32567100
it is you bro - glad you're here :^)
GRIT & FCOs...real crucial info

>>32565947
When it comes to patrols, you're either designed to fight or not
>RECCE/Standing vs Fighting (possess greater armor, ammo, and/or transportation)

>>32567001
Accurate ('deliberate') Fire: 1 shot every 5-6 seconds
Rapid fire: 1 round ever ~2 seconds
>knee pads yes

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCB9YLOuU0
Look at 0:27
the first guy comes in without slicing the pie and not shooting the immediate danger (the target in far corner) and just turns his back
if the terrorist was prepared and had sights down that door, the op would've been shot, right?
example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQvDn9MEtNo
here you see how the swat team tries to rush and one of them gets shot

-------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrN0izKLz-A
now look here at 1:38
the team slices the immediate front target then proceed to slice the pie


Tl;DR against a prepared opponent, don't rush and slice the pie or you get mag dumped

>>32567295
But muh speed and violence of action.
I agree though, the flood the room style kind of depends on having either disposable bodies and a willingness to accept casualties, or a temporary disablement (sic?) of anyone in the room (flashbang).
Plus taking time to slice the pie gives you more situational awareness of the room and what's beyond, so there's less chance you get surprised by some shit that wasn't on your intel, and you have the chance to reassess and reengage if needed.

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>>32567001
the next page over

Should I finish my degree before enlisting with the goal of joining special forces? Or should I just save time and enlist now?

>>32567434
>what book is this?

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I spliced a section together on Situation Awareness

>>32567231
You can only explain IFAK, MAGS, and Water source & shitpost in the /gq/ so many times before it gets stale.

glad you're liking it.
don't forget RTR


>>32567602
get a degree or learn a trade before going an enlisting, Life won't hit you so hard when you get out, and realize were doing nothing for X number of years.

>>32567634
Soldier Pocket book 2012 edition.

>>32561081
How advisable is it to take 3a soft armor into a situation over 4 steel armor if I am trying to not be a target and the people that would be targeting me are niggers in Baltimore?
I figure top priority should be people not wanting to shoot me, then protection from being shot. And if I am shot, it would most likely be handguns anyway.

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>>32567917
yes, the hood rat's primary weapon is a handgun or 12 gauge, so level II alone should keep you covered, i think anything else is a bit overkill

>>32567942
Thanks.
I bought a slick plate carrier, but the steel armor I bought makes it bulge to the point it's noticeable under a button down shirt, which is what I normally wear.
So I've been debating buying soft armor.

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>>32567100
what pc is that

But seriously that book is a conformed good source. Ranger Handbook as well to cover more of the extended and necessary operation part of operating.

https://youtu.be/NLZL8wtuRmA
>lewd

>>32567434
Oh hey, it's that artillery fag (I joke, I joke). Ranger handbook is bretty good.

Honestly, I think a lot of /k/ would be well served with the Soldiers Manual of Common tasks. It's basic bitch stuff, but if you ACTUALLY read through it, it's a good basis for off the street people. That and FM 3-22.9, you know, nobody ever actually gets around to reading the "advanced section", good info in there.

Anyway, who wants photos on how to ID landmines and shit?

>>32567779
>You can only explain IFAK, MAGS, and Water source & shitpost in the /gq/ so many times before it gets stale.

Yeah, /gq/ is ok, but it shouldn't be the only consistent place on the board that is close to informational. And it gets clogged up with too many babbys asking the same questions over and over, a separate thread to answer those is good.

>>32568125
Is that a real Harris or an airsoft meme radio?

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>>32567779
holy shit, this is rich. 10/10
really enjoyed the range-finding section.
>If occupying a position for 30 minutes or more, fill out a range card
good rule of thumb

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>>32568654
>photos on how to ID landmines and shit
yes the please

>>32568125
Admittedly, PCs/rigs/gear will never cease to be relevant topics, it just shouldn't be a circlejerk like /gq/

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>>32568948
Not that anon you were talking to
should give you some info on IEDs
1/2

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>>32568948
2/??

anybody know of a terminal ballistics study that tests the different protective limits of materials like cinder blocks & car doors against different calibers at different ranges?

Basically, what should be considered cover vs concealment, at what range does cover become concealment/vice versa?

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>>32568948
and this is how their detonators work
3/3

>>32569009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSqdTLLZBWw
this one?

>>32568654
It's a real harris aluminum shell, with neutered internals. It started off as an airsoft meme radio but I did a lot of work to it.

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>>32568948
Just pulled them out, and even though they are all FOUO, they aren't FOUO//UNCLASS and they have a pretty long nastigram about copying them. On second thought even though my mine cards are old as shit, it ain't worth getting nailed on a Mongolian anime forum for it.

I'll post some UNCLASSIFIED smart card shit. Not as operator, but still decent.

>>32569362
I will swiftly defer to you on these matters bro
not tryna get anybody v&

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>>32568542
Not as good as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWjxbWtBWfo

>>32568654
>Oh hey, it's that artillery fag (I joke, I joke).
oosh

not just /k/, even with some of the most seasoned vets a lot of the basic bitch stuff is just flat out forgotten and usually does well to brush up on the topic. the brain is like any other muscle if you don't use it you lose it.

>who wants photos on how to ID landmines and shit?
sure

>>32568821
here's a trick

make some plywood human silhouettes: kneeling, standing, prone
>set them at random places on your property
>attempt to guess their distances, write your answers down into a notebook
>check answers with a range finder
>rinse and repeat until you become proficient

>>32569290
>started off as an airsoft meme radio but I did a lot of work to it.
explain

>lewd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6cD2U2oBN4

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>>32569362
Alright, so posting up some of the better explanation videos, since vids are easier than reading (words are hard):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVQ6F57w8_U

Good AAR on how shit went wrong/how to fix it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxrwROErlmY

AAR that should make any soldier's blood boil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGnVP42nwmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHDsQftUzEo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mboe26GBtns

Pic unrelated.

>>32569563
*last two vids should have been in the top with general info vids, my bad.

Here's a reeealllly old SERE video. I think a lot of what it recommends might be total overkill and take forever to do, but it's food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af2BTNCay-U&list=FLLWhyxiCKK7de3uq-Xd_dAw&index=42

Just want to pop in here and say that training in my opinion is vastly superior than having the latest gucci gear.

Finally gives me a compelling reason to visit /k/ again.

>>32567295
Watched the scene you pointed out (watched the whole thing obviously. loved it).

Yes, they slice pie while using the door frame as protection. Barrels still protrude and telegraph the operators...
>but I guess it's better to take a hit to a weapon and LEARN about the additional shooter, and switch to a secondary

1.bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. Bring their friends who have guns.
2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
3. Only hits count. Close doesn’t count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
4. If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough, nor using cover correctly.
5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.
7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn’t.
8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
10. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. “All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.”
11. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
12. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
13. Have a plan.
14. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won’t work.
15. Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of your gun.
16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
17. Don’t drop your guard.
18. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
22. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
23. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

>>32571243
24. Post cheap bumper sticker platitudes.

>>32566927
>has opportunity to link That guys small unit tactics video
>doesn't

Fail.

>>32571354
>has opportunity to link *That Guy's* small unit tactics video
People won't know what you're trying to say if you don't use proper English.

>>32571243
Does that mean general mattisnhas thought of ways to kill trump

>>32565729
Rear: faster but larger silhouette, less peripheral vision.

More frontwards: marginally slower, may impact balance, smaller silhouette.

Silhouette refers to the rest surrounding parts of the optic blocking your peripheral vision.

Does full auto get used outside of belt feds?

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>>32569443
Enhanced Battle Rifle Squad Designated Marksman - Marksmanship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rLfYLM48Ms

>>32569563
>>32569717
I still can't believe how much those videos costed.


>>32570039
To moderate degrees you're correct, but there are always extremes.
Gucci gear won't carry you through shit going sideways, but can help if you have the skills to deal with such events.

>>32572202
rarely.

>>32572202
Not really. Even when you're looking to go balls to wall with mass fire like being a base of fire element, rapid semi-auto is way more controllable in a rifle.

There is some thinking that full auto is good for close quarters, but that's older, modern close quarters is all about rapid semi.

Plus the extreme majority of US troops get burst weapons, not full auto anyway, and mechanical burst is pure trash.

Can say that full auto 7.62x39mm rifles start reaching for the sky quick even when you shoot them even in controlled bursts. When you see insurgents or ANA shooting AKs on full auto it is obvious they aren't hitting a damn thing.

We don't need another general.

These are fucking cancer.

>>32572269
Faggot. Don't tell us what to do.
Us cool people decide what happens here. Not you bitch

>>32566339

This.

If someone could make a list of all national training schools by state that would be awesome.

>>32572259
>There is some thinking that full auto is good for close quarters, but that's older, modern close quarters is all about rapid semi.

Yes and no. The "modern" doctrine you're referring to is a ripoff of hostage rescue units, who obviously don't want FA in CQB. Line infantry mindlessly copied the habits of the high-speed dudes, and it stuck because little need for FA when doing cordon and search in Iraq, or long-range fights in Afghanistan.

There is a valid use case for FA undeployed people don't know: crossing shots on runners. To a lesser extent its valid for the ~50m range band, and suppressors also have a reason here - enabling this without revealing yourself so easily to the dudes friends.

Source: on deployment I talked to some cool kids.

>>32572667
Remember too that line units almost all have burst guns, which are not going to work well for much of anything. Rapid semi auto works a lot better for hitting moving targets than burst IMO. So to answer the initial question of the above anon, full auto don't get used often because most people don't have it.

Even with a full auto setting I'm so used to rapid semi auto that it just works better. About the only thing I found awesome in full auto was a 9mm SMG. The internet says they are outdated (and they are for general use) but about the only thing that has really controllable full auto.

Source: I prestiged on CODMW2.

>>32566339
>>32572592

Done. I did not have time to shift through every single site. Feel free to use this.

http://pastebin.com/hTK0LLFA
http://pastebin.com/hTK0LLFA
http://pastebin.com/hTK0LLFA

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>>32569207
pts 1-3, pic unrelated

https://youtu.be/YSqdTLLZBWw
https://youtu.be/pSebnSQdJ2k
https://youtu.be/02ECJ2Lt0cU

>>32573229
feel free to modify/add and make new ones

>>32573229
Integrated with the OP's pastebin at the bottom
Still kinda unorganized
http://pastebin.com/nLAxyKN5

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>>32572415
>>32573405
>>32573915
>>32574114

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>>32574283
good stuff about the monogrammed shirt

>>32574283
was missin post 1/5

put the whole thing here http://pastebin.com/scekLxpA

>>32574499
any ideas on how best to collect these somewhere?

>>32574698
>any ideas on how best to collect these somewhere?
Your guess is as good as mine, imgur link or somethin.

anyone is free to save the pics and post it or compile them as they see fit.

>>32567295
>>32567401
>>32570705
Now that I've given it some thought, I really don't understand the reasoning behind ever rushing the room before scanning all of it from the doorway first. You stand to maybe gain a three or four seconds of time, but at the risk of getting yourself killed or, as a team leader, having your entire operation ruined. For three seconds. And from what I understand, this sort of room-clearing is also taught to the American infantry, people who would definitely get shot and killed trying to pull this off. The question is why? Why would anyone think this is a good idea - rushing in? And what about possible booby-traps on the floor? Gonna run over those too, give insurgents a laugh?

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>MK12 SPR
>A marksman rifle that uses hand-loaded 5.56 ammo for more accuracy and range

why use a rifle chambered in an intermediate cartridge (5.56) as a marksman rifle?
why even use a rifle that needs it's own loads? isn't that unpractical as shit?
what edge does this give me over an M110?

>>32575498
Woah there anon I'd be careful questioning military logic.

>>32575340
Violence of action.

>>32575498
7.62x51 nato is heavy as shit

You can carry more 5.56 while being lighter.
Operations in urban areas is where the SPR really excels

Think Blackwater in Najaf rooftop as an example of an spr in its elements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKzJ2Wnv9fA&t=49s

I'm not sure why it needs it's own load, but 55.6 is a peashooter and gets fucked over by the wind when you're shooting at something in the distance, so handloading heavier bullets and with more gunpowder does have it benefits in distance shooting,

>>32575621
308 isn't heavy
any guy with basic army training would carry an M110 with 5 mags no problem
and the weight between 5.56 and 308 isn't that remarkable

>>32574971
also that book has a shit-ton more information

from squad marching formations
hand signals
signs comms, codewords, voice procedures, etc
living in the field, how you should pack your bags, burgen,webbing, laydown your bergen, etc.
intelegence
weapons
vehicles
mines
personal security
medical
the list goes on.

we should really start a recommended read Pastebin

>>32575643
Tell you what
you carry 3000 rd of 7.62 and I'll carry 3000rd 556
we will see who's complaining first

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>>32575684
308 is 25 grams
5.56 is 12 grams
not a significant change
it's merely double the weight while giving lot more power and range (even more than the mk12's hand loaded 5.56)

if you can carry 8 mags of 5.56 ad hike with them like the average GI does, then you can carry 5 mags of 308 and hike with them

>>32575593
This approach can only work if the enemy is not prepared to fire back, which is I guess the SWAT teams use it.
Thing is, on the real battlefield the enemy will start shooting instantly and keep shooting into that doorway until he is dead. Even if you can blind him with smoke or flash, or attack in the dark using night vision, there's still zero benefit to not scanning the room first and rushing into an unknown room which god knows what on the other side. Maybe there's a whole in the wall and on the other side of the whole there's a machine gun emplacement, and now your entire team is KIA. Some violence of action.

>>32575593
that only works if the insurgents are really unprepared

if the guy inside the room already has his sights down the door, and you rush in, expect a slaughter.

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>>32561081
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/

Here you can read and/or download pretty much every American field manual in existence, I recommend FM 3-21.75 and FM 7-8 for a start - they will teach you about individual soldier skills, proper formation and combat movement, building fighting positions and much more.

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Lights
i know they're used in CQB to dazzle the enemy

but how many lumens are required to effectively do it?

i'm thinking 600 lumens, or is it overkill?

>>32575990
fucking justice bump and thank you anon

>>32575643
The same guy could carry an SPR with 10 mags

>>32561081
>>32573596
>>32573229
http://pastebin.com/9N3qV8hR
a little enhanced this time

also, are we allowed to change the content of OP for each thread?

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>>32576805
well I figure why not? I just used ctrl+v for these first two threads to establish some consistency in what to look for. I recycled OP.png for the same reason.

But I firmly believe the pastebin should grow to reflect important info, shrink if something is debunked, etc

But do I have a system in mind to keep this organized? hell no :^(

>>32573229
>>32573251
>>32573596
>>32576805
Thank you!
>>32576027
I have the TLR-1 HL that has 800 lumens and it's honestly too much for close quarters.
Outside it's fine though.

You might be able to get away with 600 lumens.
>>32575990
Neat.

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>>32561081
What is everyone's thoughts on constantly unengaging/reengaging the safety on an AR when in combat?

I ask, because when I was in the military I got hippocket training from two different groups of cool guys. One group was autistic about always flipping the safety on EVERY SINGLE TIME you lowered the weapon or moved back behind cover. The other group was more like "Safety off once combat starts, don't touch it again until combat is over".

I took a civilian shooting OPERATOR course to see what they had to offer, and the instructor was also autismo on engaging the safety every time the weapon went down, but then again I got a strong James Yeager vibe from him.

Based on my own experiences leaving the safety off for the duration of contact is just a whole lot more expedient, but I want to hear how operational operators here do it.

>>32577079
I say leave it off because your trigger discipline and muzzle awareness are what you need to rely on during a fight.
The safety makes sure that even if you point the gun at someone and even if you pull the trigger, no one will be shot.
You don't want that in a fight.
Just my humble opinion though.

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>>32577079
Disengage it while in combat, engage after, maintain td. I don't see how there are any other options here. Keep flipping that thing under stress, and one day your gun won't fire when it should because you forgot to disengage safety, and now you're dead.
As a commander, being autistic about safety only makes sense when your soldiers are raw conscripts who are more threat to you and each other than the enemy, or your weapons are shit and likely to discharge when bumped on scenery. None of these factors applies to any modern military. Leave the safety off.

>>32577148
>>32577122
This has been my thinking, and what I did in combat.

>Keep flipping that thing under stress, and one day your gun won't fire when it should because you forgot to disengage safety, and now you're dead.
My thoughts pretty much, especially when you combine fatigue, being focused on other things in combat, and wearing gloves reducing dexterity in just makes more sense to not fuck with it.

An observation is that the two groups of cool guys who told me opposite points of view were both Army SF, but different Groups, so I guess different Groups really do evolve into different cultures.

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>>32576972
>>32577049
if that's so, then this pastebin is the barebones template (add what you want in each thread subject)

http://pastebin.com/PzNkkkTP

by the way, if this gets archived, i'll post the next thread, i got it set up

For my military bros out there: Never trust a purple thermite grenade to work right if you see it. 90% chance it will pop and explode instead of burning.

>>32577184
Did that second group give you any reasoning for keeping the safety on? Everything I've ever read or heard about various SOF suggests they are generally the least likely people to care about regulations, safety and so on, because their ranks are filled with people who know what they are doing and thus don't need rigid rules.

>>32577369
>Did that second group give you any reasoning for keeping the safety on?
The logic was that if you get hit, you don't want your trigger finger seizing up and firing off a round (or multiple rounds if it's on full auto). I can definitely see the logic of not wanting a guy with an M4A1 to fall to the ground while his hand reflexively seizes up and magdumps in every direction.

>Everything I've ever read or heard about various SOF suggests they are generally the least likely people to care about regulations, safety and so on, because their ranks are filled with people who know what they are doing and thus don't need rigid rules.

Regulations? No.
Safety? Fucking all about safety. They just don't look like it because of how out of regs they are. And their variables for thinking of safety are more complex.

I don't want to fall into the "I know everything because one time an SF dude poked me with his finger", but these guys chilled at our compound on the regular for a few months and I got to have some casual lengthy conversations with a number of them. One of them took a couple of teams from my unit out and totally reinvented how we looked at M9 pistols, so I defer to these guys all as knowing their shit, even if they conflict on details.

>>32575756
I'm just going to assume you're trolling.

Just an idea but something I tried with /k/ a while ago that never caught on was posting a Google earth image of land I shoot on (with addresses and other shit removed of course) and making a training course of sorts. Would you guys be interested?

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>>32577474
I suppose this viewpoint makes sense. Personally, I would never trade possibility of squeezing the trigger uncontrollably (given how unlikely it would be for my teammates to be in my line of fire at the same time that I've got a rifle shouldered with finger on the trigger) for a risk that one day I'll forget to disengage safety and NOT shoot something I really should have shot then and not a half-second later. It's just statistics, and they are really against that pro-safety group.

Anyone have any good manuals for leading small units of two or three?

>>32578215
http://www.2ndbn5thmar.com/

check out the "infantry leader skills" section

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>>32577187
I had included 'instructional primers' in the OP/pastebin, basically just those youtube videos

I've been trying to format the template in Google Docs, and have been putting these useful things (pastebin list of schools by state, some youtube, etc) in a section at the bottom

Here is the link for the GDoc
It's set to allow comments but not edits, though I want to change that so we can all add shit

bit dot ly/2i5UadE
>replace dot


let me know if any of that isn't working

also here are some more pics from the set that can be turned into generic OP images

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>>32577187
>pastebin is the barebones template (add what you want in each thread subject)
Exactly. And I'm just wondering if there are already things we can remove from the template in an effort to trim some fat.

For example, maybe people want to move the 'instructional primers' (like Pat Macs youtube channel) down to the /r/esources section. Go ahead and mention it here and on the google doc.

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>>32578319
just added this at the bottom of the doc

Funny thing is, simply searching /OG/ in the archive will literally just give you this thread and the last one, which are both chock full of info (and all the links we're discussing)

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>>32579201
>>32579005
>>32578931
At least the tripfags didn't ruin today's thread

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>>32578931
>>32579005
>>32579201
also, after how many threads should the /r/equests expire and get deleted?

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>>32579391
real good question

>>32578111
>they are really against that pro-safety group.

Please don't tell me you believed the "this is my safety" bullshit in BHD. Read this article by Paul Howe, Delta Force Mogadishu vet: http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published/the_weapon_safety.PDF

Also Frank Proctor, SF vet and USPSA GM on rifle safeties: http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/07/gunfighter-moment-frank-proctor-19/

Pat McNamara, Delta vet on rifle safeties: http://soldiersystems.net/2016/07/30/gunfighter-moment-pat-mcnamara-36/

>>32575918
that can easily happen even if you pie it off from the outside. that's basically a 1 on 1 gunfight

the "limited-penetration" techniques have their place but they won't make you invincible

>>32575796
>This approach can only work if the enemy is not prepared to fire back, which is I guess the SWAT teams use it.

In a hostage rescue context you need to get bodies in the room fast. If the bad guys are shooting you they aren't shooting the hostages, which is a shit deal but is also par for the course.

>>32561081
Generally, I would avoid oil reserves.

>>32580962
You haven't read my posts if you think I thought that. In BHD it's a completely different situation, the guy has safety off outside of combat and inside a friendly base of operations, it's unjustifiable. I'm pretty sure this is one of the parts that they made up for the film, like the scene with the recoilless rifle.
>>32580989
They'll tip the odds in your favor by giving you a chance of not being shot instantly because you didn't even look in a potential enemy direction before running into the room.
>>32581113
The hostage rescue, or any mission for that matter, will go belly-up once two or more members of the assault team are bleeding out on top of each other in some doorway. The best chance the hostages get is you shooting the people holding them hostage.

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCB9YLOuU0 at 0:26 mark. In this situation, the enemy rifleman on the left side of the door will immediately shoot the first, second and possibly third man trying to enter the room. Depending on his training and weapon, he may be able to shoot the rest of the team through the wall, because he knows they're huddled together there (while the assault team is completely stunned having just lost two of its members). And what about booby traps, or something really stupid, like a hole on the floor covered with carpet? Slicing the pie would also allow you to scan the unknown room for any possible dangers, accomplishing the task of not getting yourself killed and your mission ruined.

>>32581291
>The best chance the hostages get is you shooting the people holding them hostage.
That's the dream but in a hostage rescue context you can't reasonably expect to be able to engage threats from the door. Any smart hostage taker is going to position themselves behind hostages so you can't fight from the door. So then you need to get inside and dominate the entire room to get a clear angle. This kind of stuff is why the opposing corners method exists.

>See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjCB9YLOuU0 [Embed] at 0:26 mark. In this situation, the enemy rifleman on the left side of the door will immediately shoot the first, second and possibly third man trying to enter the room. [...] Slicing the pie would also allow you to scan the unknown room for any possible dangers, accomplishing the task of not getting yourself killed and your mission ruined.
I've seen the HRT video many times. If you try to pie off the door, all that changes is the enemy gets to gunfight you outside the door. If the enemy is fast enough to shoot you while you are moving in the open before you can shoot him, he may very well be fast enough to shoot you while you are at the doorway. All you get is the concealment of the wall.

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>>32579391
gonna try not to worry unless it becomes too cluttered

Consider these cleanest, most recent templates. Don't forget to include instructionals/subject materials in an OP though.

google docs (comments enabled)
goo dot gl/fw8MCL

pastebin
bit dot ly/2j7zHqB

pretty damn boring...would rather get back to more operational matters. Thank you all for keeping the discussion going.

>>32567295
Now do that in 3rd world shithole like brazil, it looks like a door but in fact is 4th floor fall

>>32570039

Few here would argue that training is inferior to gear. However, training is also the most expensive of the two, making gear a much more interesting and accessible area of interest to most /k/ommandos.

In fact, I would argue that one would do well to equip oneself as well as is affordable before taking up any classes in patrolling or combat shooting. By being adequately equipped, one is able to focus primarily on the training itself, instead of having to contend with bad or missing equipment.

For example, two of my buddies foolishly forgot to bring knee pads to a two-week long patrolling exercise. One was too proud to accept my offer when I suggested he use one of my extras, and the intense pain that developed in his right knee became a huge distraction that ultimately took away from his ability to learn from the training.

Additionally, I had purchased a set of Gentex straps for my ACH that dramatically improved my ability to use NVDs on night movements and in patrol bases.This may seem like a small thing, but it made a huge difference that I no longer had to fuck around with my helmet whenever I needed to use night vision.

The point is that gear will never supplant training as the driving force behind combat proficiency, but it shouldn't be ignored either. You're doing yourself a great disservice by showing up to any course with sub-par or completely absent gear.

Did /og/ do any operating this weekend?

I hit the mountains and did:
>reloading while moving
>reloading while changing stances
>shooting on side under vehicle
>shooting while leaning around vehicle
>rifle to pistol transitions
>Clearing malfunctions while prone
>reloading while prone

With both my AK and AR setups.

Around the same area I saw some guys doing reaction to contact and man down practice.

>friends are too gay to go operating with me

>>32577079
Can't say anything for certain except this:
guys with crispy match triggers on their ARs need to be especially careful. Mil trigger can take a bump but modded ones seem really susceptible to NDs

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Between a dangler type pouch and a Fanny Pack, which would you say it a better fit for carrying medical supplies on you?

I'm thinking that a dangler would be better, but I simply don't like carrying more load on my shoulders than I need to, nor do I like that most danglers are not height adjustable, so basically the position it rests at is what you're stuck with.

For that reason I'm considering a fanny pack, because of the load carriage issue, and because I like carrying the weight farther down on my body and having a workspace to take advantage of.

What do you think? Pic related, Tactical Tailor's new LAP pouch.

>>32584395
I dont really dig dangler pouches because they flop around a lot. Try asking this question in /GQ/ they might help more.

Also might be worth looking into a tear away ass pack (if you dont plan to be innacar for a long while)

>>32584453
thanks I'll copipe this post and ask there.

I've never seen this thread before, thought it might be a little more relevant here.

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>>32577907
only if rape were included.

>>32583754
I think I went to rogue one but that movie was garbage.
hiked a lot
went to a bar and hit on women
came home drank, and shitposted.

>>32584395
I prefer fannypacks just for how versatile they're.

Currently and autistically creating an abridged version of FM3.22-9. Cutting out all the notes on training bureaucracy, gear that isn't relevant to 99% of civilian shooters (MILES, thermal, IR). Cutting out the dreadfully dry and redundant explanations of functioning of every single M16/M4 variant. Removing military acronyms. Adding my own notes (differently colored from base text) where I disagree with the text.

It's a 400+ page PDF file, trying to bring it down to a more reasonable ~100 for readability.

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>>32584395
fanny pack as a dedicated IFAK is pretty great. A little awkward if you're in and out of a vehicle, but it only takes a moment to move it to the front.

>>32584610
godspeed anon, that is a serious undertaking. And very promising!

>>32584610
Holy shit, thats quite the undertaking.

Additionally, I wish I could find a copy of the Soldiers pocket book the other guy was posting.

>>32584610
sounds great man please keep up updated.

>>32584643
>>32584520
I think I'll just go with fanny pack because I already have one and don't have to spend 50$+ on my newest experiment.

>>32584648
The 2012 edition he posted is out of print but there's a 2016 version you can buy off amazon, the shipping seems quite reasonable

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>>32575756
>308 is 25 grams
>5.56 is 12 grams
>not a significant change
>it's merely double the weight

>merely double the weight
>not a significant change

>>32575756
>eight mags of .223 is 240 rounds
>five mags of .308 is 100 rounds

kek

>>32569443
>>32568821

That was one of the most mindfucky parts of sniper school for me.

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>>32580962
I've read all of these opinions and, while I respect them, especially Pat, I still don't understand the rationale of overusing safety as a general rule. They say it's unsafe, but they don't explain why, aside from the obvious danger of muzzle-sweeping a friendly with a hot weapon. But you don't muzzle-sweep, or not maintain TD at all times, if you're trained. I still maintain that if you're reasonably well trained, the added safety of putting your weapon on safe all the time is not worth the risk of forgetting to disengaging that safety at a crucial moment.
There's also another issue with this general approach - while AR has a good and easy to use fire selector, many platforms, such as AK, don't. If you ever handled a brand-new AK-74M, you'll know what I'm talking about. So, if one thing is certain, is that if this line of thinking is applicable at all, it is certainly limited to the AR and weapon systems with similar safety.

>>32574283
How to be a dick, the visual guide

>>32580962
the combatshootingandtactics PDF link is borked (I think their website is down) but the other two were good info, thanks

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>>32584648
Should have this in a couple days. Gonna share as much as I can

>>32575498
mk12 adds some excellent capability to a squads support element if used correctly eg overwatch, observation, security

throwing a mag of m855 in one doesnt suck too bad, so you get mag commonality as well

>>32576027
dont use wmls to dazzle the enemy, thats what the pretty flash erupting from the barrel is for

but in all seriousness, if it hurts their eyes, its prolly gonna hurt yours as well. anytime you see a mirror, pictures etc is an opportunity to blind yourself. For that matter, if your vision is well dark adjusted, lighting up a white room will blind you.

i like between 300 and 500 lumens. more importantly than lumens though is reflector construction.

I wont use anything other than surefire

>>32587719
have read, worth the buy. no need sharing though. its a mindset thing. if they wont seek it out, it wont help them much

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Gonna go operate in the snow, test kit and boots in slick ice and snow. Will return with experience and pictures.