Hughes Amendment

>>32544120
hypothetical law scenarios aren't our strong suit.

it's safe to say congress would keep the FOPA protections and remove the closing of the MG registry though.

>>32544120
The Hughes Amendment was a poison pill inserted into FOPA. It was intended to stop the passage of the bill--but the Republicans at the time probably thought the poison could be removed later. Indeed it can--there's a stronger GOP-lead government now and the 2A Caucus will be very powerful with grassroots GOP activists. The NRA, NAGR, GOA, and most state 2A advocacy groups will support the attempt. The 2A Causus is about as far-right as possible. Further, changes are already being proposed to NFA restrictions such as the declassification of suppressors (a la Hearing Protection Act) so it's not a far leap to go further with NFA modifications.

It's a good idea overall, IMO. But as SBR's and SBS's have shown, it won't be a flood but a trickle. A tax stamp, federal registration, and a 3+ month wait time is already heavy control. I'd like to see the interstate control aspect removed as well--you shouldn't have to notify the federal government when you go shooting across state lines. As for compromises, I'd accept upping the tax stamp to $2,000.

>>32545787
2k tax stamp? De facto ban.

>>32545787
>I'd accept upping the tax stamp to $2,000.
>I want to open the registry but in name only

Yeah you're a faggot.

>>32545787
>A 2k tax stamp is fine
>AKA, poor people shouldn't have my funs

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>>32546055
Try living in Australia where guns that sell for $100 in the US sell for $350-$450 and ammo is about twice as costly even though we make Winchester ammo locally.

Not to mention we can't even have pump action shotguns and the antis tried having lever shotguns banned just weeks ago.

I am a registered shooter and a member of a pro-gun political party, I actively try to get more non-shooters into the hobby to boost the numbers of the aware that guns are not a problem, but criminals are.

>>32546055
What do you think $200 was meant to do back in 1934?

>>32546118
What do you think we're trying to do by opening up the registry?

>>32546114
>the antis tried having lever shotguns banned just weeks ago.

I'm out of the loop from upside-down town, didn't they succeed at that? Or at least in getting the Adler heavily restricted?

>>32546118
You do realize that we don't like the NFA here, right?

>Hughes Amendment repealed
>two months later some lunatic overmedicated teen steals daddy's full auto to get even with his oppressors at school
>The Hughes Amendment is reinstated the next day

It's a nice fantasy but such a thing would be so fragile it's almost guaranteed to not last long. The first time one gets used in a high profile crime they're going to shut it all down.

>>32546055
>>32546067
Brings it inline with inflation and keeps it an actual investment. Considering how much the guns themselves cost, I'd consider it a fair trade. A $1,000 AR-15 would be a $3,200 machine gun--a fair price and quite attainable to most owners of multiple guns. Without empirical data, I'd assume that most NFA owners either own one or 5+ NFA items. The overall collections are 10+ guns. Which means that 10 $800 rifles is $8K plus the cost of magazines and lots of ammo--you're looking at a normal collection being like $12K+. It also makes NFA machine guns a decent but still small fraction of the collection's value and inline with more expensive semiautos. (Would you rather have two SCAR's or one F/A SCAR?)

>>32546078
>Versus cheap shitty MG's currently costing $5K, decent ones costing $15K to $30K, and rare ones costing $50K+
>AKA it's a massive improvement in all quarters
>Also, inflation will happen and so the cost per year will drop
>Would probably get us silencers and machine guns with red-state Democrats agreeing to such a hypothetic compromise

I'd much rather see the tax stamp stay at $200 or, better yet, have all NFA items declassified permanently. Which would be the initial bills I'd want to ram through. But also, I'd like to see something permanent that the Democrats wouldn't simply undo come 2020 or 2024. Having all NFA categories reopened would be a massive win on its own.

>>32546164

then make it a thing that if you have kids you need to have a gun safe.

>>32546164
Top kek, that's some nice projection if Sandy Hook didn't get neither side to budge. Just a week ago, we had a title II firearm used in a crime (Suspects still on the loose) and there wasn't even a peep of gun control here.
>t. US Commonwealth

>>32546230
Just gotta handle that carefully. For example:
- Allow gun lockers too, don't require expensive safes which present a huge financial barrier to gun ownership
- Don't require the safes to be bolted to the ground like in bongland (IIRC), because that immediately disqualifies any renter from having guns.
- Have the law be reactive rather than proactive. A prosecutable offense after the fact, but don't have cops doing surprise annual inspections of your safe.

And so forth. Many if not most of these "common sense safety" ideas are thorny as hell and easily bent to the service of de-facto bans.

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>>32544120
I know this is /k/ but do you even into middle school civics? Pic very related.

>>32545787
NFA was pre-NICS, when doing a background check actually took some leg work. Most of this is automated today.

As a compromise, on things which are on the NFA, I would accept an additional 10% excise tax per transfer on the value of the device on top of the existing 10% on regular firearms, and a moderately enhanced NICS style check and a waiting period of not more than two weeks.

Suppressors, SBS, SBR and AOW should be removed from NFA, and put on 4473 just like everything else, potential waiting period not withstanding, leaving only MGs and DDs in the federal registry, which would be re-opened for applications.

>>32545787
The only reason we have a surge of suppressor ownership enough to challenge the NFA is because $200 is basically small part of the total cost of ownership for most high quality suppressors.

>>32546055
>2k tax stamp? De facto ban.
So, in other words, pretty much like $200 was in 1934? Works out to be $3600 in 2016 dollaroos. Roughly 30-50% of a brand new family car of the time.

>>32546259

as long as the gun cant be accessed without breaking something. a kid isn't going to tear off a cabinet door just to play with his dad's gun.

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>>32546201
You act like guns are something that only the rich should have. Why the FUCK should guns HAVE to be an investment. If I want to buy cheap guns that are full auto, why not?

pic related is literally you

>>32546399
well to a certain extent, the firepower of FA should not be very accessible to the lower class ( i know this sounds super douchey and I hate myself for typing this but hear me out)
imagine chiraq with FA wielding thugs

>>32546444
Not like they don't already have FA guns

>>32546444
Because criminals follow gun laws right?

>>32546455
>>32546479
but FA gun crimes are already so low they are not really recorded, they don't really have much access to FA because of the current high price point

>>32546498
So out of fear of gangsters and thugs armed w/ cheap full autos you would deny there access to the common man? Sounds familiar to me.

>>32546498
Not like FA sears are hard to make
>they are not really recorded
And Brits aren't talking about gun crimes. Your point?

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Allowing unmoderated access to legal full auto weapons is a terrible idea. And its never going to happen.

>queue the army of poofags, "libertarians", and whatever else.

I love these threads where people talk about "working' on repealing the hughes or the NFA, as if its ever going to pass. Its not. No one is ever going to push it out of committee, and even if it did, it would DOA on the floor.

A society with essentially unrestricted access to full auto firearms would like like some shit in Peshawar, Libya, or Somalia with open air arms markets. These are not good regions to live in.

Go ahead and rage impotently now anon.

>>32546541
>>32546517
all im saying is that if we did make this change, we would have to deal with the inevitable increase in FA gun crime, and the resultant political and social pushback

To make FA legal and accessible? Optimistic
To keep them legal after the body's start falling? It would take nothing less than a miracle every 4 years.

>>32546616
>>32546597
>>32546444
>>32546260
>>32546259
>>32546230
>>32546201
>>32546164
>>32546118
>>32545787


>$0.05 has been deposited in your account

>>32546652
oh ffs I hate hillary im just saying that making FA cheap and accessible will have drawbacks that we need to consider, and it might be better in the long run if they are either cheap, or accessible/legal, but not necessarily both

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>>32546664
This guy gets it

>>32546498
>low
Non existent

>>32545787
>Raising it to $2000

Fuck that shit. God damn commie

>I wish X wasnt banned so I could buy it
>Why ban X? Not like it would stop people from buying it

Pick one

>>32546664
Nigga fuck you. If every assault rifle facsimile was replaced by an actual assault rifle it would only increase the amount of ammo wasted during mass shootings. You WANT retards to go Full Retard.

>>32546597
You aren't very smart are you

Sound just like a gun grabber

>"If we legalize muh spoopy scary assault weapons we are gonna get everybody killed. Think of them chillums!'"

>>32545787
Fuck off, Alex C.

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>>32546765
Im actually pretty satisfied with the way firearms laws are right now. But please use more ad hominems.

>>32546765
True or False:
Un-moderated access to cheap fully automatic weapons would increase gun crime deaths.
True or False:
The resultant increase in gun crime deaths would cause more restrictions to be placed.
True or False:
Every Tyrone and Demetrius having access to FA and using them in crimes would ruin the public image of FA.

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>>32546664

>>32546814
they should be cheapER, but not downright cheap

>>32546814
>>32546819
like what part of my claim exactly do you find issue with, your meme is not an argument

>>32546808
Full autos are already viewed as "muh child killers". Its not our fault niggers like to shoot themselves

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>>32546814

>>32546808
There would be no increase in gun deaths from allowing full auto to drop off the NFA

>>32546800
The NFA is unconstitutional so it needs to be removed

>>32546831
as much as I hate to say it, the public would rather ban them all than let them be so accessible
if we wanted to get FA rights back AND KEEP THEM
we would need a creative solution other than
>lol full autos for everyone for cheap

>>32546827
I have an issue with the fact that you want to restrict access to firearms to the common man

>>32546851
So we just make it an amendment.

>>32546819
>>32546827
Who are you to say what their price should be? This isn't a fascist economy.

>>32546844
drive by's would be so much more effective and destructive to bystanders
the media would spin a mass shooting as "enabled" by FA fire (as much of a falsity as that is)

>>32546868
I don't believe so

They already spray bullets everywhere pulling the trigger as fast as possible
>>32546861
Fuck that, gun control in the Constitution? Out of your mind.

>>32546865
yeah I dont like it either but if SA and FA are the same price, who would get SA? And if all the criminals suddenly get FA things would get much more dangerous for the victims, police, bystanders etc

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>>32546834

I think it would be reasonable to deregulate suppressors, SBSs, SBRs and bring back machine gun registration but keep the 200 US$ tax stamp and registration periods.

>>32546880
Allowing unfettered access to full auto weapons is an even stupider idea.

Unpopular opinion: I would rather see our import restrictions go away before hughes

>>32546855
I find issue with it as well, but there needs to be a compromise that we the gun owners, and the dumb ass tumblr masses can agree on

>>32546891

But it isn't though

>>32546889
>>32546894
these make me moist
I would be so happy with theses compromises

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>>32546891
>Stupider

>>32546906
Could you explain that for me?

>>32546906
do you want every Tyrone to be capable and equipped as Al Capone?
the rampant use of FA for crime was why they were restricted in the first place

>>32546896
>Compromising
>Ever

>>32546923

The reason FA was restricted is so they could bust gangbangers for having a tommy gun even if they cant prove they did anything else.

It wasn't because full auto was more deadly.

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>>32546945
Enjoy being marginalized for the rest of your life!

>>32546918
Full auto just wastes ammo. It is much less accurate than controlled fire.

The only time it is useful is in crew served weaponry. And for pissing off gun grabbers.

>>32546945
unfortunately compromise is the only way we will make progress here

>>32546597
>A society with essentially unrestricted access to full auto firearms would like like some shit in Peshawar, Libya, or Somalia with open air arms markets. These are not good regions to live in.

Yes, because that was the US pre-1934, right? And that was the US leading up to the Hughes Amendment with all those thousands of scary full auto killings, right?

>>32546963
But what you want makes crew served fully automatic weaponry legal? So you just want to repeal the NFA and hughes just make people angry?

Do you want to motivate the far left to come out and vote en masse?

>>32546973
This may be news to you, but the US of 1934 is a different society than it is today.

>>32546201
>Would you rather have two SCAR's or one F/A SCAR?
Two F/A SCARs

>>32546989
Would you call the US of the 70s a different society as well? Considering that the only impediment to a brand new full auto gun back then was the $200 tax stamp and the murder rate was much higher than it is today, what makes you think the repealing of the hughes amendment would cause an extreme surge in full auto weaponry use in crimes? The data already doesn't support you when it comes to scary semi-auto rifles, considering bludgeonings beat those out year by year when it comes to murder, so what makes you think full auto versions of the same would suddenly be used in crimes, other than your feelings?

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>>32544120
>Don't repeal it! I just dropped 9k on this semi-auto M249.

>>32547050
Somehow, I have a feeling that even if hughes were repealed, firearms like the semi auto 249 would still be about 10 grand even if they imported and sold more autos.

Kind of like choosing a transmission in a car. Yeah they still make and import the manual even though the auto outsells it, but they still cost about the same.

>>32546800
If you're satisfied with anything less than "Shall not be infringed", you're a traitor and should gtfo.

>>32547084
manuals still cost about $1000 less

>>32547126
I know, that's why I said "about"

The point being that they can charge a premium for the machine gun but it won't be a gap of thousands of dollars or something unreasonable.

They should be about the same cost regardless of function but if they want they can charge a premium.

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I hope the two dumbfucks ITT cucking like a couple of goddamned chickens realize how stupid it is not to lead with MORE than you actually want. You get to the compromise part after the public voices their opinions and then you figure out exactly how many more votes you will need for it to pass. Hopefully, by the end you will end up with what you really wanted to begin with and the opposition still gets to feel like they accomplished something, so it's a win-win.

Closing the registry is a de facto ban and I'm sure that strict constructionist Supremes would agree as well. The 2A is clear: 'shall not infringe.' It is not a matter of how popular it is, since we are a Republic and not a democracy. Holding any other position is traitorous.

>>32546230
Yeah and you need a safe for your car keys if you have kids, and a safe for anything not safe for consumption and a safe for your pool.

Long story short, fuck you.

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>>32546852
I mean the restrictions are already so tough and the libs are so uninformed, like make the bill "Forcing the registration of all newly made fully automatic weapons to the ATF as of February 28 2017" and it would prolly pass with flying colors because of fudds and feinsteins.

>>32546664
they already are accessible as fuck.... negros in chicago have ZERO issue getting their hands on them already, do you really think a full auto AR will be more lethal then a semi auto?

>>32546759
This, instead of the Orlando shooting lasting 3 hours, the autist would have burned through his ammo is 30 min hitting not nearly as many people.

>>32546759
Not him, but I'm not worried about mass shooters. I'm worried about Jamal and Rayquaza getting them and shooting up neighborhoods like white gangs did in the 30s. If there's anything that the implementation of NFA makes sense for it's select-fire guns.

>>32547804
Why do you have a problem with niggers killing each other more efficiently? Maybe it will slightly close the gap between that and their birth rate.

>>32546055
If you have the money to support a full-auto ammo budget 2k is a drop in the bucket. If being able to get a FA would cost me the gun/parts and a 2k tax stamp I wouldn't mind it. Also I know how this will sound, bu 2k will go along way to keep FAs out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, keeping them from being b& again right away after some autist REEEEs out over his mom not bringing him tendies

>>32547831
Because the niggers might kill people that aren't niggers or people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

>>32546740
There's a difference between criminals who don't follow the law and citizens who do.

>>32545787
>I'd accept upping the tax stamp to $2,000.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

>>32546201
>>32546260
>>32546444
>>32546819
>>32546896

GO FUCK YOURSELF.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

>>32546831
They're "muh child killers" with a perception that can be combated by pointing out facts--like that they're already an NFA item, subject to a tax stamp, the wait times for said tax stamps are measured in months, and that statistics say the criminal misuse of NFA F/A is incredibly rare and not just against all other gun deaths.

Which is why you first go in with far-right Republicans in heavily red districts & states. You have them (and the far-right 2A groups like NAGR) try to push through a complete repeal of the NFA entirely. Inevitably it fails. So you go in again and soften it a little--we'll only declassify SBR's, SBS's, and silencers and eliminate the NFA tax stamp. That gets the support of GOA but also fails. Third try is to reopen the registry, declassify silencers, and eliminate the tax. SBR's and SBS's remain NFA and have a long wait list. Maybe the NRA steps up and agrees with that one and basically all red district Republicans agree. But it's still not enough. So the final attempt becomes one we can still agree with--delist suppressors and reopen the MG registry. If added incentive is needed, up the tax a bit. Collectors get guns, gun right organizations have a big victory for hardliners (and big donors), and they still have bogeymen to attack as half the country continues to trend towards the far-right. Meanwhile, tens of thousands of new modern machine guns get accepted into the NFA registry every year and you can afford the tax pretty easily (but Jamal or his less felonious neighbors cannot).

This isn't a rich vs poor thing. $2000 is a sizable chunk of change but it's attainable for 90% of the country who own their own car. Not to hemorrhage $2K just because but instead to plan the purchase for a year.

$30K+ for an AR-15 DIAS is simply ridiculous. It's more than the average car and is out of reach of 98% of the country. If I could have a bill that gets it back in reach of 80% of the country, I happily would.

>>32547120
this!

To every autist in this thread; how far detached from reality are you? Are you full on "NO ROAD, REEEEE" libertarian, or just don't go out/pay attention to the real world? I WOULD love to live in a real world where "shall not be infringed" was possible, but I/we don't. You do know that the only reason why it is remotely possible is due to a backlash against all of the intolerable liberalism from the last eight years? Now imagine that the ATF is abolished and all 2A controls/prohibition repealed/abolished as well. Don't try for one second that gun crime wouldn't go up, noticeably, maybe not skyrocket but go up enough. Enough so that it would convince many people (who were indifferent at some point) that had been swayed to the pro-2A side, that we do in fact need gun control. There would soon be another backlash, Republicans would lose their majority, and it isn't far flung to imagine the Presidency as well. Before you know it we have gun control on the level of Canada/U.K./Australia etc.

Here's a little analogy (the autists/trap lovers won't like/get); I own the house (don't start, she signed a pre-nup) my wife and I live in, I could/can do anything I see fit concerning how it's painted decorated because I own it. I let her put some of her dumbass knick-knacks, ugly paintings, and pick some colors when we paint a room, why, I don't have to? I do though cause it helps keep the peace, I get my bj's and get to wash my dick in her pink sink because of it. What I'm trying to say is although my power in concerns to the house is unlimited (how the 2A SHOULD be viewed, in a perfect world) I make some compromises to keep her (the voter who isn't hardcore 2A) happy.

>>32547120
>>32548073
>I'd rather not be out on parole because you won't get me a presidential pardon.
Said nobody ever.

Get back our gun rights one slice at a time. I know we've lost 90% of them but if we can shrink that down to 80% or 70% immediately, then that's still a big win. The war's goal is complete victory. I'll take a fair few winning battles in the meantime. Or we can throw out the opportunities because we'd rather force their surrender without any battles.

>>32548136
*Why it is remotely possible we may get some pro-2A legislation is due...

>>32546142
No, the magazine capacity for lever shotguns was lowered to five rounds, and the category was moved from A to B.

>everyone who gets their rifle licence gets both A and B at the same time anyway, they're practically the same category.

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>>32548136
Fuck compromise and fuck what our enemies think of us. We had a high trust civil society, they raped and murdered it, and now the only road of survival is to fight for your tribe. Giving crumbs to the deconstructionist left will not pacify them. They're unpacifiable. If that's a word. Or fucking crazy with no reverse gear, if you prefer.

>it's a "reasonable gun control" episode

Fuck off shills. No amount of gun control will be enough until it's a total ban for you niggers.

>>32548232
>homicide rates half what they were 20 years ago
>LMAO the world is ending

Are you positive you aren't a millennial? Because I have to imagine a Gen Xer would remember Rodney King and the whole crack epidemic.

>>32546955
this. Tax evasion is easy to prove, murder is hard.

>>32548243
...what the fuck are you going on about?

>>32548136
I see your argument, and raise you one 2nd Amendment.

>>32548256
Well, you keep acting as if the current problems America faces are unprecedented.

They aren't.

I have find it hard to believe that a human could be alive for 40 or more years and not have a sense of perspective.

>>32548232
reminder that the GOP doesn't have a super-majority in the Senate, so we have to overcome a Dem filibuster.

>>32546955
>>32548252
kind of a genius move tbqh

>>32548293
So we keep asking the same question every year until we get our way, and compromise this year on teeny tiny things and then attack again next year until we get our way, and scream and demonize them and browbeat and sue them until we get our fucking way. Just like they've been doing for most of the time I've been alive.

>>32548320
you only have 2 years before the majority swings back to the dems in congress, mark my words.

Be as productive as possible while we can, because shit's about to get a lot harder.

>>32547410

>am i being detained

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>>32546597
all I want is a minigun in .22LR

>>32548339
We'll see. They're defending a lot more Congressional seats than the Stupid Party is, and the screaming and yelling and evil-othering shows no sings of abatement... and Trump ins't even in fucking OFFICE yet.

>>32548232
>>32548266

You guys are just as bad as the people who want a full on ban of guns. We (gun owners) are in a position to finally get some pro-2A legislation passed. If we tried to get anything passed that was even remotely close to abolishing the ATF or anything else as ludicrous, it wouldn't make it out of committee, and even if it did it would be 360noscoped and teabagged if it made it to the floor.

What we need is to start slowly rolling back anti-2A legislation and replacing it with pro-2A legislation that isn't easy to repeal. Basically like getting your wife to let you put it in her pooper; you ease that shit in slow, you ram it in and she recoils forward, cries, and you don't ever get close to that brown-eye again.

>>32548377
and a lot of the people who isle swung to trump are already pissed.

Its going to be more of an uphill battle than you're making it out to be. Dont get complacent.

>>32548339
Dems generally tend not to vote in non-presidential elections. The party has a hard time stirring people up when the white house isn't at stake. Young people are, for the most part, lazy and indifferent when it comes to politics so you're left with only older hardline dems. Couple that with the fact that the Dems' party is in full disarray as they are infighting about to double down on identity politics or return to their working class roots.

>>32548442
>youngs are lazy

Not lazy, pissed. The party hasnt done dick for us, and Hillary is a perfect example of that.

We wanted Bernie and mobilized for it and the party said no in favor of courting the crackers that ended up jumping ship for Trump anyway.

They deserved to loose.

>>32548136
Your argument is absurd. Keep back ground checks and the bit about felons. Then free up everything else. Not that the part about felons matters because half the time they get their hands on a gun anyway. The point is gun crime is happening either way. Why are you bent on punishing and stripping the rights of law abiding citizens for the sake of appeasing a merciless enemy? The left would strip you of your arms in a heartbeat if they could and here you are wanting to work with them. We are on the offensive now, not them.They bend the knee, not us. We can take back a lot of ground in 2 years and if we do a good job, a republican majority increases in 2018. Then 2020 could be another victory. You sound like a beaten and abused housewife that needs to leave her deadbeat husband, but is too afraid to.

>>32545787
Yeah go fuck yourself

>>32546896
Just like we compromised on the
>NFA
>GCA
>1986 FOPA and Hughes Amendment
>'94 AWB
>'98 NICS
>All the various state level shenanigans
Again, go fuck yourself.

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>>32546682
>>32546664
>samefagging

>>32547804
>Not him, but I'm not worried about mass shooters. I'm worried about Jamal and Rayquaza getting them and shooting up neighborhoods like white gangs did in the 30s.

They're already fucking doing that, or did you not notice Chicago's murder rate went up 57% last year? Again, Full Retard wastes more ammo. It's useless outside of a proper battlefield because the only advantage it has over semi is suppressive fire and/or psychological warfare. Other than that it's a waste of ammo, which is why nations all over the world did stupid shit like magazine cutoffs, fixed magazines, and 3-round burst, only to find it is better to train a soldier to properly use full auto than prevent him from going Full Retard. Gang members/mass shooters don't give a hot gay fuck about firing discipline.

The only "positive" effect that banning full auto can be seen to accomplish is to slightly hamper revolution/insurrection, but even then you can illegally modify a semi to full without much issue. You still see it from time to time but it is seen, rightfully so, as a fool's errand because it's not worth the hassle.
>If there's anything that the implementation of NFA makes sense for it's select-fire guns.

If by "select-fire" you mean "explosives", sure.

>>32548482
no u

>>32546979
No I want full auto because the government has no business stopping people from obtaining it.

>>32548461
You're post is proof of what I'm talking about. First about young people being lazy and indifferent. The only reason Bernie had the support he did is because of young people and what he promised them. Second that the party is fractured. At the state level if they want to win elections they're going to have to appeal to the working class (like what the use to do), but they're will be big infighting about who runs on the ticket because of that vs. identity politics shit.
>>32548466
My argument is just what you said in your second sentence >>Keep background checks and the bit about felons. As well as some sort of tax stamp for FA, we can argue about that ad infinitum, but my point is that we can't do this shit overnight. The only reason were on the offensive right now is all the people we've brought to our side after the last 8 years. Get rid of "common-sense" gun control, the ATF, what have you and the left spins it as "we need more gun control, think of the children" and we lose the people we've swayed over to our side and we get even more restrictive gun control.

>>32548608
what I'm trying to tell you is that:

lazy != unimpressed

We are not obligated to vote any way we dont want to, and they need to realize that.

The days of machine politics are long gone, and if they want our vote, they'll actually have to work for it.

>>32547857
>I don't care if I have to spend more money than I would otherwise
Ask me how I know you're not rich!

>>32547868
That just gives us more excuses to enforce LAW AND ORDER on their asses.

>>32548442
>>32548461
Don't rely on past actions to ensure victory. It's the same decision-making that lost Hillary the election. She should have defended some blue states. Instead, she said "he'll never win" and took a vacation instead. November came and she lost big. We cannot afford to be in the same position. 2018 is an election year. We gotta get out to the polls and grow the Republican majorities. It's all quite attainable right now. If Trump can improve the perception of the economy, then the Republicans can pickup seats. Maybe find 60 senators and improve the House majority too. Come 2020, Trump could get reelected on a "you weren't so bad after all" and again retain the Republican majority. What's really important is that we get the federal government straightened up. Push through the necessary reforms, cut the bloat, get enough jobs back to make a difference. A country where only BLM is protesting is a country that will again vote Trump and down the (R) line.

The ultimate goal, IMO, is to keep conservative control until 2024 and beyond. Load the SCOTUS with conservative justices. It's currently 4-4 soon to be 5-4. Wait for Ginsburg and Kennedy to check out and it'll be 7-2. Maybe Alito or Clarence Thomas will also pass (they'll be in their mid to upper 70s) or retire while the GOP still controls the ship. At which point we'll retain a 7-2 majority with a relatively young court. And further hammers in that conservative principles will lead the country for another 20+ years. Gun control won't stand in a 6-3 or 7-2 SCOTUS and that's the ultimate goal. Have national CCW reciprocation and dismantle liberal states' gun laws too. And have the political will to enforce the constitution everywhere--and not just in red states.

>>32548781
Fucking sucks because a hate conservative policy on everything but gun control.

Just end me fám

>>32548800
My advice? Work towards proportional representation by race within the Democrat party and especially minority leadership. The only reason Hillary lost is because she wasn't black. Trust me.

Don't worry about the 2A. Supreme court justices will take care of that one.

>>32548997
If she'd had the same bad policy and been black, she would not have won. The black caucus came out as expected, the loss in votes came from the white working class.

And as far as SCOTUS goes, I'm not looking forward to the bullshit they're gonna pull either. Feels fuckin bad tbqh.

>>32546498
>implying Jamal could keep up with the cost of ammo.

>>32548800
We need Jim Webb Democrats to become more common.

>fuck BLM
>fuck Goldman Sachs
>fuck lobbyists

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>>32548538

>>32549146
This

Conservative democrat needs to be a real thing and not a meme

>>32549146
I like last 2 that's for sure, but dont have a problem with BLM.

>>32549181
Depends on where they're conservative. Fiscal con is goat, but social con is cancer.


Just give my guns, gays, and abortions. That's all I fucking want tbqh.

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>>32549146
Fat chance of that happening fag, democunts have doubled down on their batshittery.

you're gonna march lockstep with radical left ideology and like it.

>>32549201
Well, I agree with a lot of their points.

I disagree with a lot of the specific details.

>founded because a jury didn't think that Trayvon Martin dindu nuffin
>barely make any effort to do things that would address the problem, like introducing independent police watchdogs, registering black voters, or trying to get black kids out of crime
>barely pay attention to drug policy

Also, people who block highways need to get run the fuck over. It has nothing to do with what they actually want, we just can't afford to let blocking highways become an effective political strategy. If my house is burning down, I don't want a bunch of college students and a mile of cars in between the fire engine and me

>>32549229
Brah, both parties are weak as fuck.

Trump winning should have taught you that by now.

>>32549239
Eh, I tend to agree.

I agree with the right to protest peacefully, but blocking Emergency vehicles is crime tier as far as I'm concerned.

>>32549247
^ this tbqh

>>32545787
we had that under bush and look what that got us? all he did was let the AWB expire, that is it.

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>>32549247
all i wanted out of this election was a conservative supreme court
i've hated both since forever but the shit liberals have been pulling the last 8 years well...

LOOK AT ME

I'M THE SMUG ONE NOW

>>32549286
There's a reason Jeb got cornholed.

Trump is going to have make at least some concessions to the GOP base if he wants to avoid being Jimmy Carter.

>>32549301
I'm not so sure he will, but I'm willing to see it out.

Not like I have a choice lmao

>>32549297
I fear what will happen if Roe v. Wade is overturned.

That shit would be like the Kansas Nebraska act but worse.

No state government would ever be able to pass laws again, if that Pandora's box was opened up. Both sides feel far too strongly about the issue.

Also, most babies who get aborted are blacks and hispanics from poor families, and I'm all about that eugenics.

>>32549314
This.

White conservatives are cucking themselves with pro-life campaigns.

>>32549323
Well we might see more black conservatives of we have a few good years.

>>32549366
Good luck with that.

I highly doubt it seeing as many "conservative" policies fuck over urban communities through gentrification and whatnot.

But like I said, good luck.

>>32549378
I'm thinking you could sell a decent number of black people by comparing Texas to California and pointing out how much cheaper the rent is in Texas, and how many more jobs there are.

In the end, everything except for the economy is a distraction to the real game.

>>32549378
>"conservative" policies fuck over urban communities
because 8 years of liberal policies have worked out sooo well

>>32549403
True that.

Hopefully you guys sort out the water table problem

>>32549427
better than the alternative, but I'm all for other options if youve got'em

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>>32547022
>>32546989

It's something that was feignedly designed to be a protection against an "evil" but really just ended up being a nuisance for collectors and an infringement upon all Americans second-most right. It was a mistake and it has very well overstayed it's welcome.

People don't change. People have been the same since the dawn of our species and we will be the same all the way until the last spark of human life fades.

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>>32549427
The Great Recession pretty much shattered the Republicans are better at economics meme.

>>32549155
>nice_shoop.png

>>32549427
>better than the alternative
like what the "lets raise the minimum wage to 15 dollars nationally and fuck more poor people out of a job by encouraging even more automation"

or the "defacto import foreigners to depress wages" policy

there's also the "raise taxes so that in order to live there you have either be in a ghetto or a gated community"

I'd give you an alternative, but i can't think of a a way to turn free market economics into a sound bite and the very words "free market" already angered you.

>>32549449
>The great rescission caused by republicans
nope Good old Slick Willie wanted everyone to have a home so he encouraged banks to give loans to people who couldn't afford them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

>>32549449
In a few posts, explain why this image looks how it does. Explain the reasons why the democrats, for example Clinton, have a higher GDP growth than the Republicans.
I have a BS in economics and I know the answer because this very subject was my thesis. I want to see if you really know your stuff or if you just believe every data point you see ex post facto.

Hint: Presidents are not better or worse at economics. But very often policies' impacts are delayed into the next candidate's terms.

Hint2: Clinton's GDP growth (often called the Clinton Surplus) was due to the gutting of a bloated welfare program. That piece of legislature gutting the program was crafted by the Republican congress.

Hint3: Economic history is more complicated than you assume.

>>32546055
Not at all. It'd just close the market to cheapshit subguns.
Sad, but acceptable compared to the status quo

>>32549632
>crisis caused by banks taking on dangerous amounts of debt
>GOP congress repealed the law preventing them from doing that before it happened
>last crisis on this scale was also caused by uncontrolled financial speculation
>until the deregulation, there had been no similar crises

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>>32549075
The real point is that it's the right thing to do.

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>>32546444
good, they'll kill each other off faster.

>>32546201
Just like cars, firearms are not an investment. You don't go buying a Toyota Camry with the intent of it appreciating and selling it later. That is not to say there aren't collectable cars out there. Firearms are the same way. I don't go out and buy a KAC AR with the hopes of it appreciating. It is a poor investment strategy (if you can call it that) because it is not known or expected that the value of a firearm will increase.

>>32549730
A lot of guns do appreciate though.

Just make sure it has some wood on it and looks sexy.

>>32549666
>crisis caused by banks taking on dangerous amounts of debt
WRONG
They didn't know it was a dangerous amount of debt because the risk of the debt being taken on was being misrepresented

the other points are asspulls because you clearly have no idea of what happened

>>32546444
It happened in the 80s (prior to the ban on semi-auto open bolt guns eliminating a whole class of guns that could be converted to FA in 10 minutes with a nail file), and it wasn't a problem for people who weren't gang bangers.

Banning these guns didn't solve the problems of the inner city, getting more cops on the street and better investigating techniques/databases did.

>>32549749
>because the risk of the debt being taken on was being misrepresented

Because the previous administrations had gutted the regulatory structure.

This isn't exclusively a Republican problem, but it absolutely a "muh free market will fix it" problem. Clinton drank the cool-aid just as hard as any Republican.

If you don't believe me, believe the committee the House appointed to figure out what went wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_Crisis_Inquiry_Commission

>>32546541
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that gangsters/thugs don't make guns or gun parts. They buy them from straw purchasers who never fail a background check and continue funneling for cash.

You don't see FA weapons a lot because these sorts of people aren't smart. They aren't even smart enough to clean their guns. If FA was purchasable with a 4473 only, you could guarantee it would be straw purchased and sold to gangs very quickly.

I still want the Hughes Amendment repealed, mind you.

>>32547623
>Orlando shooting lasting 3 hours
The Orlando shooting lasted 3 hours because the cops didn't want to try and force entry against an armed man.

An "unknown number" (ie probably most) of the victims were killed by SWAT when the cops finally grew the stones they needed to breach, and jumped into a dark hole firing uncontrolled full auto themselves.

>>32549768
>"muh free market will fix it" problem
WRONG
It has everything to do with government meddling, Banks would have never lent money to the people they did If the Clinton Administration hadn't encouraged banks to lend to high risk people

>>32549737
But it is not an expected action. A lot of guns nowadays do not appreciate, they remain the same or depreciate.

>>32549730
True but many firearms hold their value quite well.

Cars should be considered consumables because their value deteriorates rapidly from use. Not so with guns.

>>32549843
From the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission.

>"More than 30 years of deregulation and reliance on self-regulation by financial institutions, championed by former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan and others, supported by successive administrations and Congresses, and actively pushed by the powerful financial industry at every turn, had stripped away key safeguards, which could have helped avoid catastrophe. This approach had opened up gaps in oversight of critical areas with trillions of dollars at risk, such as the shadow banking system and over-the-counter derivatives markets. In addition, the government permitted financial firms to pick their preferred regulators in what became a race to the weakest supervisor."

>"The enactment of legislation in 2000 to ban the regulation by both the federal and state governments of over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives was a key turning point in the march toward the financial crisis

The "government forced the banks to take out risky loans" meme was forced by the American Enterprise Institute. It bears no relationship with reality.

>>32549850
I think with historic firearms, especially milsurp, it's normal for prices to appreciate.

Like, they aren't making Lugers no more.

You'd be right about sporting firearms though.

>>32549902
>government forced the banks to take out risky loans
>forced

Encouraged for the sake of policy by using the deregulation carrot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
and republicans warned democrats about potential problems


but you're too deep in the partisan hole when im having to repost video proof

420 eryy day socialism 4lyfe amirite!

>>32548358
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ

Go on nigga, do it.

>>32549958
>video proof

Well, I'd actually trust the commission appointed to answer this specific problem, which had subpoena power and spent years working on it.

Maybe I'd be more skeptical if the 1929 recession hadn't been caused by the same shit.

Here's a paper from some fag at Harvard.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1924831

>>32544120
>implying you have to repeal the whole thing
>implying a registry couldn't be generated instantly anyway based on the information we give to the ATF when getting approval for NFA items

>>32544120
you realize the hughes amendment is just an amendment to a larger law that had all those things?

>>32549985
no more deflection for you, original point was who caused it

Republicans wanted some oversight at critical time Dems refused.
blame = dems

>>32550090
I don't think that's deflection.

It's called "refuting the central point"

Let me try and do it some more.

If the recession was caused by the government encouraging untenable loans, then why didn't the banks figure out that their assets were shit at some point before everything went to hell.

It's the banks job to evaluate assets.

>hint: It's because the free market failed

>>32546959
>>32546967
We're talking about people who don't even know how a fuckin AR-15 works beyond "Pull trigger, goes bang, that's bad, ban it", and even AFTER being taught, they still want it banned because "muh salt weapons". You're as retarded as they are if you think they're going to accept anything that isn't Australia 2.0
We already gave these fuckers enough, we need to take back what we've lost, and fight tooth and nail to protect what little we have.

>>32549715
>Implying they won't kill everyone faster not just niggers

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>>32548293
I know it's a long shot but there are 32/34 of the necessary states with both legislative chambers under Republican control, which is almost enough to convene a Convention of the States under Article 5 and pass amendments to the Constitution. It's neva been done befo, and there would need to be 38 states to ratify the amendment... 2018 could be very interesting.

>>32550124
>I don't think
that's the problem and why i keep having to explain the same shit

at a critical moment dems refused to fix the problem, all prior regulation or deregulation is irrelevant.

>>32546230
>if you have kids you need to have a gun safe

If it's law, it has to be enforced. There will be paperwork, compliance procedures (home visits, inspections, etc.) No thanks. These things can be engineered by regulators to make your life hell.

I don't want to give up my kids. But if they make it too much of a problem .....

>>32549852
The word you're looking for is 'durable goods,' such as a house, a nice gun, or a young woman.

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>>32544120
Hughes amendment was only part of FOPA

>>32545787
>I'd accept upping the tax stamp to $2,000.
Fuck off you stupid cunt

I just got a 3 day ban from Facebook for typing "1488" so I think we got a lot of work to do, goys. The Hughes Amendment is on the cutting board to go. We'll hold Trump's feet to the fire to make it happen. Hold strong.

>>32546517
That would be the rationale for the NFA to begin with...

>>32550774
The world is fucking waking up, don't worry. This will be a year of revolution, and people fighting back against oppressive governments.

>>32548652
You're right, I'm not rich. Between my wife and I we make around 130k a year, we have a newborn, house is paid off, and some debt. I allot myself 7k a year for firearms/hunting. My gun collection, for the most part is revolving, I don't hold onto most of my guns more than a few years (save for a core collection). I treat it like the stock market, buy low, sell high. That being said if I could get any gun, convert it to FA, after a 2k tax stamp and required parts I would.

Don't be mad that you're poor and live with mom.

>>32549314
>>32549323
You're forgetting about all the white women that are career driven and having a baby would throw that shit right in the gutter.

>>32551220
Yeah, but most white women are smart enough to put a condom on.

Abortion is for people who are honestly too retarded to use birth control.

This is almost exclusively poor blacks and hispanics.

>>32551478
>White women smart enough to put a condom on
>Female condoms
>GOP planning to sack Planned Parenthood

>>32551844
Well, the proper way to do it is to put the condom on with your mouth.

>>32551478
>Yeah, but most white women are smart enough to put a condom on.
No they aren't. Unless you think my best friend's sister having 3 abortions because she's too irresponsible to tell her boyfriend "No sex without condoms" or "don't cum inside me" and then deciding to keep the fourth because she feels her biological clock ticking fits that description.

>>32552216
Most.

Not all.

It's the magic of statistics, you get outliers.

Also, after the second one, I would have paid for an implant just to keep her from reproducing.

>>32552234
I think you need to take another look at those statistics man. It's way more even than you'd think.

>>32546444

>criminals obtaining weaponry by legal means

>criminals obtaining legal weaponry

>criminals giving a shit about legality

No

>>32546142
All lever action shotguns with a capacity of five or less got moved to Category B, those with 6 and over got moved to Category D, Category D is basically a ban since only professional pest controllers qualify.

>>32546055
>>32547947
Oh bullshit. If you can't afford it, you don't deserve it. Go be poor elsewhere.

>>32552216
Imagine being that baby.

"I wanted a toy, so I let you live."

>>32553676
>Things I think are nice should be available to the common peasant, I worked hard to get my medical degree and I don't want anyone to be able to buy the things that I can buy with my doctor money

Or however that parody post went. Things should not have their value artificially inflated just because you don't want to share a hobby with those you consider beneath you.

>>32553676
>thinks fuck you im rich is a counterpoint

>>32553676

If it were a write-off, maybe. Otherwise, its just more paperwork that we shouldn't be paying to process.

Wouldn't mind so much if it was instant.

The delay is what irritates me: They have my money, and they can (and most likely will) just sit on it indefinitely.

Getting a SCI clearance takes less time.

At least make silencers legal (and cheap). I'd even argue mandatory for indoor ranges, especially since RMs around here like to throw .22s in with pistol calibers in the same room despite there being two separate rooms for this very reason.

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>>32546067
>>32546078

>they think 2k is a lot of money.

>>32553774
>he thinks artificially inflating the price of something for no real reason is good

Hello Mr. DeBeers, how many people have you worked to death to mine your useless shiny rocks today?

>>32546444
Holy shit, you're a fucking faggot.

>>32546616
>all im saying is that if we did make this change, we would have to deal with the inevitable increase in FA gun crime

Why, faggot? More legal guns don't mean more crime than there already is.

>>32546664
>>32546682
Fuck you, samefag. This is the exact same argument the antis try and use for saltypoons.

>>32546808
False
Moot because previous was false
Moot because previous was false

>>32546923
Tyrone is already a felon from drug dealing and can't legally buy any gun. It's a Moot point.

>>32548383
>You guys are just as bad as the people who want a full on ban of guns.
Wrong. I'm not the one who wants to infringe on my natural rights.

>>32549155
Nice try, fag. 4chan doesn't have (you)s anymore.

>>32553815
Well I am working class and $2000 is a lot of money to me, but I think that if we can have legal full autos, $2000 to make it happen is affordable, how many people buy more than $2000 in other shit they don't need, it's like people have never heard of saving, put $20 away a week for two years then get a machine gun.

>>32550211
It would also need supermajorities in the House & Senate and some states do direct votes on constitutional amendments. If the GOP does well through 2018, it's possible but not guarantied. I'd love to see a 28th Amendment further clarify that it is the right of the people to keep and bear arms equal or exceeding that of any established law enforcement or military agency.

>>32553774
It's pretty funny. I guess they're the people we make fun of for having an Andersen AR. But in all seriousness, $2K is an affordable luxury to most people. Having new machine guns will quickly devalue most existing machine guns (except the truly collectable models and premiums for muh original). Even living in the hood--if you can control your impulses, you can save $2000. Hell, some people might move to the hood for cheap rent and using the savings to buy machine guns.

>>32554292
Yeah exactly, it's like they don't know how to save.

I also think that if you are on welfare you should be denied NFA paperwork processing.

You can still buy a gun, but if you are on the taxpayer dime then you don't get access to cool shit, get a job cunt.

>>32553774
>>32554738
You sound like you're in favor of a poll tax too, you fucking scum.

>>32553774
>t. Alex C.

>>32544120
You fucking moron, they could easily just repeal the part they don't like and leave in the part they want to keep.

Congress can basically stick anything in a bill that makes new laws or erases old ones so long as it works with the constitution, they don't have to repeal things whole or anything stupid like that.

btw, the hughes amendment doesn't even have all of the stuff you said, the original bill had all that stuff and the hughes amendment was a stick on that banned new full auto

>>32546067
When you consider that a machine gun costs like 30,000 or more that's really not a lot of money.

Still pretty gay idea and the liberals wouldn't even be moved in the slightest by it (largely because they don't read the gun control laws we already have.)

>>32554757
No, I am in favour of machine guns for working citizens.

No luxuries for welfare scum.

>>32546164
Since 1934 only there is only ONE known case of a legally owned machine gun being used in a murder, and that was a police officer.

Full retard only provides a small advantage in mass shootings, and for many people would make it even harder due to the fact that they don't know what the fuck they are doing.

>>32546256
Sandy Hook provoked some state level changes but that was about it.

>>32553676
You are probably that same fag from the nvg thread, sound an awful lot like that faggot.

>>32555192
>Still pretty gay idea and the liberals wouldn't even be moved in the slightest by it
This gets much more to the heart of the issue. It doesn't matter what you do, because certain people will react the same way regardless of what you say. Showing you understand their retarded viewpoint validates them, and they will use it to assign guilt and further demonize you. They will not attempt to understand your reasoning or take a pragmatic approach. "If it saves just one life..." they will say, so anything less is morally wrong. You cannot compromise with people like that. We may quibble over details with each other because we share the same values, but I would advise not to try that with gun-grabbers. The best approach is to say what you believe, back it up with facts and reason, and let the fence sitters watch the ensuing hysteria.

>>32555329
So pretty much, wait for a cultural shift, when people's beliefs swing back towards conservatism. Luckily this is happening as we speak.

>>32555554 (so close)
All that I'm saying is that you cannot expect reason or compromise to work without a shared value system.

Conservatives lost so much ground in the last half century because they failed to propagandize the new generations effectively.

>>32555212
Unless it was a belt fed tripod mounted Machine gun firing into the stands of a sports arena.

>>32555888
>Sir, why do you need an M2 Browning at this football game?
>Its muh open carry

Fuck you, no. That is completely impossible

>>32555173
This

>>32546055
The free market will fix itself

>>32553722
Guns aren't just a hobby and too many stupid and irresponsible people want one. Purchasing a gun, especially a machine gun, should be a burden to deter idiots.

But whatever you like, but you better truly want it.

>>32546800
You're the fucking idiot who threw out ad hominems to begin with and that's all you can respond with?

Idiot

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>>32547120
>4
Why does homeland security need a billion rounds of ammo? Because the FEMA trains need to be loaded. Give it another decade or so if the gun grabbers get their way.

>>32554107
I have the natural right not to be hosed down by SAW fire in a movie theatre though

If you cant afford a 2k tax stamp you cant afford to feed a full auto gun anyway

>>32546973
Yes actually. Why do you think they banned them in the first place?

>>32551019
The internet of things will eventually solve the nogunz and cheap gunz problems. Between cheap kits, 3D printing, and some novel other lost tech coming to the surface, there will never be a shortage of expedient firearms.

Time has shown again and again in all sorts of countries around the world, if someone wants to do mass havoc, you don't need a full auto machine gun. Look at the truck of peace and understanding ISIS has been driving around lately. (The sick fuckers they are).
Destructive devices are all over the place, if you want to make one. You can't legislate out stupid. When SHTF or a revolution happens, the last thing the officials contend with is insurgents and criminals bent of double breaking the laws on the books. The crims and suicidal will get whacked likely, and meanwhile the real citizens are suppressed.

>>32555888
Could you volley fire a kilometer out to a sports arena?

>>32549842
Yeah, did you see the splattered rounds all over the entrance breach hole going in? Like that was shooting discipline. I bet it was spray and pray, but even if it was semi auto fire, that's just fucking sloppy shooting at CQC.

>>32546055
vs 20-30k full autos today caused by market forces and a registry restriction?

2000 for a tax stamp on fa is reasonable.

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>>32559644
I lost count at 40 holes around the breach hole. One string was full auto.. Can we trust the SWAT or whoever was the trigger happy fuckers that went in?

>>32559552
That right didn't help the Paris shooting victims, did it? That rigorous French gun control really stopped them terrorists from arming themselves!

Crazies gonna crazy. They'll find a weapon no matter the law. If they can't find one after all, they'll make a bomb. If they're too incompetent for even that, a truck with which they'll kill more than if they did find a gun.

Disarming the common man doesn't do shit.