Is the age of the bullpup dead? Before I knew jack shit about

>>32489469
l85 is no longer bad but I hear the brits are going to trade it in for the insas

They're certainly going out of vogue, but they'll always be around in some capacity for roles where barrel length is paramount. For example they're ideal for DMRs for mechanized infantry, though off the top of my head I think the Chinese are the only ones to have capitalized on this.

>>32489528
>>32489528
wait they are seriously going to adopt the Indian Army's rifle? wtf?

>I can't help but wonder what was the point of these things in the first place?

They look cool

>>32489537
/k/ truly is the easiest fucking board to troll.

>>32489537
it will help with their cultural diversity as an apology for the empire

Theres nothing bad about them
It's just amerifats being autistic about stuff
Same reason they still use the imperial system

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>>32489469
>Is the age of the bullpup dead?
Not really.
Like anything it's got some pro-cons and that mostly comes down to a set of circumstances.

>>32489528
kek'd

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>>32489469
>what was the point of these things in the first place?
Bullpups are for indoors and in thick brush.
Can't be beat in those two areas. Don't require approval and a $200 tax stamp.
The early ones had shitty triggers, the late ones don't have 2stage and dual trigger options, and you have to relearn mag changes. Those are the only drawbacks.

>>32489469
I'm surprised the Brits are going to keep the L85/L86 past 2025 when that was the year where they planned to replace them.

>>32490173
Fixed most problems and I imagine it's not worth changing over at this point.

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>>32490942
but how then will the english learn to use designated shitting streets

>>32489469
They are just waiting for electronic trigger.

Today they are still superior SBR choice.

>>32489469
>calls us eurocucks
> claims the l85 is shit

tell me how many times have you used it?

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>>32489469
We don't want to change over. Not because we love the L85, but odds on we would just fuck the whole thing up again. Consider this: when we developed the SA80 family, we took a sensible, lightweight rifle design which worked (the AR-18) and fucked with it to produce a heavy, awkward rifle which didn't. After much teeth gnashing, ball aching, and by giving it to Tickler and Cock, we finally have a working rifle . So if we decide to go through it all again, i bet my left nut it would just be another cake-and-arse party. pic unrelated.

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>>32489469

>>32489469
>french dropping the FAMAS
lol no
they just issue 416 to non combat units and recon troops, everyone will still use the FAMAS

>>32489469
>now that France is dropping the FAMAS for the more traditional HK416
They would have gone with the G2 but the French killed their local military firearms industry, so they didn't have parts to replace it. Not to mention that they're more familliar with making business deals with HK (As well as having certsin parts made for them), hence why they didn't adopt the VHS 2 with the Croats since they're not familliar with the Balkans (Plus better deals with HK).
>the L85A1 was a piece of fucking shit
Ftfy, Even Ian himself admitted the A2 was a fine rifle. The British won't be dropping them anytime soon, they're too stubborn and cheap for that. If there is ever going to be a new service rifle, it'll just be another upgrade kit.

>>32492995
>they just issue 416 to non combat units and recon troops
So... their entire military?

>>32492995
>to non combat units and recon troops

Yeah for sure, they are buying overpriced new guns only to give them to second line troops. You must be one special kind of retard.

>>32489469
Straya seems to like them, but then again they chose the AUG platform...you know a bullpup that isn't shit and offers more advantages than disadvantages to the user.

>>32490159
Goddamn I want an F2K.

I'm usually more of a milsurp wood stock kind of guy but that things just looks so sexy. Fuck the dolphin memes.

>>32492841
is that a FAMAS?

>>32492995
Erm, yes they're dropping the Famas.

>>32489469
I know people go "hurrrr space gurn" at bullpups but i find them pretty practical for hunting in thickets. I converted my Norinco SKS to a bullpup using a CBRPS Pug III stock. to cutting or modding waa needed so I can revert the stock back to its original one. I do recomend sanding then polishing certain areas for better comfort since the stock is milled out of a synthetic material like polycarb.

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>>32496063
picture of rifle

>>32495743
Early model when they were bigger and harder to surrender. More recent models have fixed this.

>>32489537
Yes, the British Army only recruits from London now so it makes sense those recruits train with a firearm from their homeland

>>32496090
Hey bubba whats up?

>>32496499
ey ya found me

>>32489533
>Chinese
>capitalized
kek

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>>32492841
>Tickler and Cock

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>>32489469
>Are the 80s over
Yes

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>>32489469
It's just getting started. The Desert Tech MDR starts shipping next month, with full production by March.

>>32489469
There has yet to be a bullpup that weighs less than the rifle it was meant to replace.

>>32497440
>I swear that its coming out next month guys!
>For realz
>No wait I really mean it
>Its going to be epic
>Guys!
>Guys?

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>>32497467
It's gonna be great, though. A 19" .308 the size of a Mk18? A suppressor-ready 300 BLK the size of a P90?
The only reason not to get one will be if you're too poor to afford it.

>>32497440
Yeah they neat but mostly It looks like the bullpup will never be more than a boutique gun for civilian shooters and small scale military sales.

Mostly When big companies or militaries kick around with the bullpup concept it usually gets a few nods, but then they get abandoned for another standard configuration format rifle.

One of the biggest problems with *most* bullpups (L85, Bushmaster, AUG, Famas, Tavor) is the right hand only ejection, and to *Switch you need to take the gun apart or switch out a part.

>IB4 HUUR LERN TO RIFLE LEFTYFAG
This is important to right handers as well because if you are behind cover and need to go around a corner... sometimes the corner is on the left side. With a standard config you simply switch hands and pie the corner correctly using cover. With a bullpup you cant pie in that manner and you have to go around the corner exposing yourself... making you more of a target.

Some of the new designs are better with this with forward / bottom eject. but all of the mainstream bull pups suck with this

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>>32489565

second

>>32497514
Im supposed to believe that an untest, unreleased product is supposed to be great. Produced by a small shop that has never supported a semi automatic rifle?
This new product was made possible with the help of an unknown investor, with unknown risk tolerances.

I think ill pass.
And $2k for a rifle is pretty moderately priced in my book

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>>32497581
>untested
What do you think they've been doing for the past 3+ years, porting the code to progressively fancier engines?
Besides, the 19" and 10.5" barrel assemblies probably won't be available for another 6-12 months after initial release, so the early adopters will have plenty of time to shake out any bugs the finished product may have.

>>32497710
scraping together funding

>>32493016
>Ian himself admitted the A2 was a fine rifle
No he didn't. He said it "worked OK".

Put an A2 on a bench alongside other modern assault rifles and compare for a little while. Reliability is not everything, and not "fine".

>>32497581
>unknown investor
It's not unknown, it's a large sex crime organisation rooted in Utah.

>>32497827
Sex crimes pay that well?

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>>32489528
>but I hear the brits are going to trade it in for the insas
Don't listen to the voices in your head anon.

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>>32497514
Looks like shit and it probably is

>>32492995
The FAMAS is on her way to the grave sadly. There was one plant making them and their parts, it no longer produces any nor has been for awhile. The design is proprietary and will not be shared due to export laws. The 416 will likely phase the vast majority of the old stock of rifles out within the next 5 years.

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>>32498044
>all those FAMASes that'll get crated up in warehouses forever or destroyed because French laws won't let them be exported to loving American homes

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>>32489469
>China picks bullpup
>age of the bullpup dead
When eurocentrists will catch up with understanding that they become irrelevant?

>>32489469
if we could just bullpups in combat-effective calibers, that eject downward (maybe with a slight angle), reliably, after trigger pulls that aren't like dragging a futon over gravel,

bullpups would be the shit.

>>32498152
>Asians
>people

>>32496090

Its your rifle... But god damn....

>>32497851
What is she sitting in a puddle of?

>>32498558
Piss. A running joke in the source comic is that she pisses herself.

>>32498579
"""joke"""

i think they are mostly dead now that people realize having a long barrel is not a necessity for assault rifles and that short barrels are not only capable but almost ideal.

in that sense, repacking a 18 or 20" barrel into a bullpup platform to reduce the overall length doesnt seem quite as attractive when you can just use a 10-14" barrel rifle in the conventional platform.

The f2000 and the tavor were supposed to be the bees knees of bullpup platforms but barely anyone of note ended up adopting those rifles, meanwhile plenty of conventional rifles have won contracts over the years, and even some countries using bullpup style rifles are planning on replacing them with conventional rifles in the coming years, like france.

>>32496090
That really gross but also really cool, nice job not chopping and keeping the original stock. Seems the AK would be a better candidate for that though.

>>32497440

Guarantee their business goes nowhere of note. Company is too small to succeed with military contracts

>>32498728
I doubt they are competing for military contracts. US civilian sales will probably be enough for a small company like them provided they don't get retarded like Kel Tec and do a bunch of shit poorly with poor distribution instead of a couple things well

>>32498714
good points about the barrel length here.

if you plan on shooting intermediate cartridges inside 200 meters and only engaging in short fights with not a lot of heavy fire, disregard standard thickness 18 inch barrels. get a fuckin pencil 12 inch and feel like you're carrying airshit.

>>32497851
those are the voices of london which now has designated shitting streets

>>32498714
Where'd all the f2000s go? I only have ever seen like 3 in my whole life but everywhere I turn the walls are covered in tavors.

The age of bullpup and DI are over, it's time for piston.

>>32500637

they ended up getting small scale purchase by a few states, mostly for specific units.

the only thing that ever came close to being a large scale procurement was slovenia who adopted it for their armed forces in limited replacement capacity. Slovenia is not a big military though, and the projected figure of 14,000 units should give you an idea of how small a deal it was.

IWI's Tavor is mostly the same story as well. Their biggest deal was with india, everything else is small unit purchases for specific units in a number of countries.

Theres a lot of youtube shills getting that jew gold it would seem, which gives the perception the tavor is more successful than it actually is.

>>32498972

thing is there are multiple studies that now that blow the popular belief that barrel length affects accuracy at longer ranges. an M4 is just as effective as an M16 at 500 yards or more. The loss in velocity doesn't seem to be a factor until you start getting out to about 700+ but at that point, you're probably calling in a sniper team or crew served weapon anyway if you're not silly.

this is a good read https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/10/daniel-zimmerman/the-truth-about-barrel-length-muzzle-velocity-and-accuracy/

>>32489469
>FS2000 no longer in production
>Bullpups in general in retreat
>Desert Tech MDR wayyyyyy behind schedule
HOW CAN BULLPUPS EVER RECOVER‽

>>32489469
>I can't help but wonder what was the point of these things in the first place?
Longer barrel in the same length or smaller length with the same barrel.

L85A2 is actually decent, it's just A1 which was complete fucking shit. FAMAS was replaced for two main reasons. #1 was that there are no spare parts since the manufacturing plant is dead. #2 is that the rifle needs tweaks that were never made - it doesn't have much space for top-mounted rails, it can't deal with M855 and the magazines it uses are proprietary and shit quality(because just like early M16 mags they were intended to be used once and then dumped, except they were reused and they've never actually developed reusable ones), there is a version that has those tweaks(outside of mags, but it takes STANAG now so who cares about developing proprietary mags) but very few of those were actually produced and then the MAS went bust and it all went to shit.

>>32501048

Steyr AUG is still a pretty successful platform. Main service rifle of 4 nations, and small unit purchases across the world.

Most manufacturers regardless of platform could only hope to have that kind of success

>>32501048
6.8 RDBs for under a grand.

>>32489537
its a meme u dip

>>32489533
The Israelis have a DMR variant of the Tavor.

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>>32492841
>Tickler and Cock

>>32501048
>implying the Desert Tech DNF ever had a schedule to be behind

>>32489469
Bulpups are, and always will be retarded. Literally the laughing stock of the gun community.

I'm actually turned on by the Kel tech RDB. The design of the action is simple and effective. But I don't trust their ability to actually build anything that will last more than a few thousand rounds. FN or HK should just buy Kel tech and make them an R&D wing.

>>32503519
Has anyone torture tested the RDB yet?

>>32503617
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybQRUl_iFEA
[spoiler]It fares even worse than the AK.[/spoiler]

Not sure why but I find the L85a2 aesthetic as fuck. Looks great when it's been worn a bit

>>32501037
that would be true, but 5.56 heavily relies on velocity to fragment reliably. While a M4 might be as accurate as a M16, it sure a hell doesn't have the same velocity. I would consider 400 yards to be the maximum effective range for M855 out of an M16, and 300 yards for the M4.

>>32503666
The good thing about that test ( for the RDB), is that the problem that causes it to fail is fairly easily fixed.

>>32491862
kek great text

>literally NO bullpups made this year

What do you think?

>>32489469
Surprise, surprise,
it turns out that biomechanics are more important than a negligibly longer barrel and half a pound less of weight.

Who would have guessed...

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>>32489469
>HK416
Europoors have a serf/noble mentality and HK supplies weapons that convey authority, it was the G36 now it is the HK416. Ultimately the arms of Europe are meant to convey authority rather than actual use.

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>>32498152

Just like the French, the Chinese are switching back to a more traditional layout. The trend of ditching bullpups should be telling.

>>32504435

While that just is slipping modern parts on the boxy receiver I kinda could dig a modernized chauchat.

>>32504435
>Ultimately the arms of Europe are meant to convey authority rather than actual use.

Oh yes, because when I think of Europe I don't think of armed conflict at all. These things certainly don't happen in Europe every ten years or so. European nations simply don't use guns and never have, so their weapons are just there - never to be used.

>>32504435
Chauchat bullpup is probably better than the L85A2, desu.

>>32504527
>Never
When did I say never you drama queen

>>32489469
>but now that France is dropping the FAMAS for the more traditional HK416

Bullpup isn't a useless design, it just doesn't fit the assault rifle role.

Can you imagine what it is to have three generations of soldiers with systematic hearing loss from one ear but not the other ?
It's shitty, that's what it is.

The Famas was designed by engineers and armorers, taking orders from the high command into account, but never asking the men what they wanted to have.

Among the retarded stuff this gun is plagued with, and not taking into account an hypothetical or effective modifications that may or may not have happened, like the USGI AR15/M16 magazines on the G2 instead of the shitty supposedly expendable 25 round straight magazines on the F1, or the weapons controls placement, or the lack of rails, or the reciprocating charging handle, well... What's left of it ?
>eject cases from both sides, except you have to dissasemble the gun to do so and there is a shitty plastic cover which can pop out
>long sturdy well attached barrel without impigment, very accurate, but hidden behind a cover without vents and thus easily over heating
>operating system arguably simpler than any gaz system despite its pompous name but also dirtier and kicking like a mule
>a gun surely well balanced between front and back but also incredibly heavy for what it really offers
>high rate of fire totally useless in modern combat even for 3 rounds burst
That's about it

So yeah, hopefully the french army gets the HK416F. It's a piston AR, sure it's not a very modern design, but at least it will work.

It keeps the good sides of the Famas (sturdy, can shoot rifle grenades, accurate...) other than that it's actually a decent gun.

And since HK manufactures all of its barrels from steel rods made in France since 40 years, there's even an appreciable gain for the french economy with this contract.

GOOD RIDDANCE FAMAS

>>32504435
>match grade
german match grade variants usually have a PSG precision style stock
so this needs a Magpul PRS and not an STR

>>32504905
>systematic hearing loss from one ear but not the other
what

>>32489469
It's one of those things that not enough people are willing to improve upon. It's definitely a benefit to have shorter length and better balance. With enough work, which would be simple at this point, a really nice bullpup could be made. Something downward or forward ejecting, adjustable stock, while we're at it throw in swappable calibers.

The closest things are the RDB and the MDR which I'm sure by now is vaporware. See the problem though? Ones made by lelkek who mess with new designs to be hip and ones made by a company that can't even get it into final production. Why aren't FN, H&K, the Russians, etc making bullpups, or at least improving on their existing designs (FN had some great ones, and I know damn well the SCAR could be made into a fine bullpup). Guess we'll have to stick with the 80s tier AUG and the kikeshit tavor which aren't even ambi.

>>32498152
>China picks up bullpup
>Over 20 years ago
As of about a year ago, the QBZ95 is only for mech and airborne units, everyone else gets the New QBZ03 or (in the case of RE backwater units and reserves) retains the old type-81s they were already using.

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sometimes the brits have good ideas, sometimes not.

>>32505222
Yes. That's what the Famas does to you.
For a right handed person, the chamber being so close from your right ear means you're gonna have a guaranteed loss of hearing from your right side ear after a few weeks or months of using it without a very efficient protection.
Same if you're left handed with the left ear.
Nowadays soldiers have access to very efficient ear plugs, but in the 90's and early 2000s it wasn't always the case.
As a result medical records are unanimously saying french soldiers lost in average a bigger chunk of their hearing from one ear using the famas. A phenomenon less prevalent with minimi gunners or snipers, despite the highter rate of fire or the louder firing.

>>32506383
That sucks mightily. Why did it take militaries so long to get on the earpro train?

>>32506383
Is that still a problem with modern earpro?
Are people who shoot the Desert Tech SRS boning themselves by setting off .338 Lapua Magnums right next to their ear hole?

>>32506563
>son, the chamber being so close from your right ear means you're gonna have a guaranteed loss of hearing from your right side ear after a few weeks or months of using it without a very efficient protection.

It took a while for the government to be accountable for hearing losses and other stuff deserving of compensation.

>>32508270
>Is that still a problem with modern earpro?
No, as he just explained, this is a doctrine problem. Modern ear pro is fine.

>>32508296
Superb. I was a bit worried about the health and safety consequences of the MDR .308 for a moment, there.

>>32498152

>nuke that circle
>golden age of earth begins

>>32510181
You'd need to move it far enough west to exclude Japan and include most of the Middle East, first.

>>32510119
>>32508296
Aside: What are some good ear protection products?

>>32496229
underrated

>>32510181
Fuck off Ahmed

>>32510281

kys paki scum

>>32490159
Yeah because you need ~16" of barrel for indoors and dense forest.

Why does every close quarters oriented unit use a standard layout gun like an AR or MP5?

>>32489469
>eurocucks were so much more advanced
This is never the case. Europe is and has always been a bunch of backwards moronic barbarians who are only good at making themselves convinced they are superior to everyone else. Everything they have of value they inherited (or stole) from the mediteranian and classical civilizations.

Look at what europe does and always do the opposite. Especially the germans.

>>32489469
>Is the age of the bullpup dead?
If the caseless ammo really becomes mainstream, the bullpup will absolutely rise again.

Everything not used/produced by Finns is a meme. Prove me wrong.

>>32511320
b-but everyone is using german guns, including american and russians.

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>>32492841
>cake-and-arse party

You say it like it less fun than it sounds.

>>32511634
The Finns are fucking internet meme kings. Prove me wrong.

>well maybe not with guns and ammo though

>>32501067
What's good abut it compared to say, the SAR21, X95, and other bullpups?

>>32512444
Bump

>>32512444
It got there first and now it enjoys the same institutional inertia that the M4 does.

>>32511649
>everyone is using german guns, including [...]russians.
what