Modern Western tanks go about 60-65 tons

Japan is a typical asian country
aka their infrastructure is 18th century tier shit

So their bridges can't handle heavy tanks

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>>32480852
Japanese people are substantially smaller than Europeans, and therefore can operate in a tank that has a smaller crew compartment, which allows for savings on weight.

>>32480852
Their armor is substandard and is untested.

Like the Leopard 2 meme, these Jap tanks would suffer a rude awakening in any actual battlefield.

>>32480852

Japan doesn't really have room for larger tanks. Japan is filled with cities with super-high population density and the areas outside the cities are mountains and swamps that would be inaccessible to larger tank vehicles.

Also, Japan's constitution forbids them from engaging in war except in direct self-defense, so the only place their army would fight would be Japan itself, so their army is optimized for fighting within the Japanese landscape.

>>32480891
>American
>talking about bad infrastructure

>>32480978
Given the only thing they will be up against are Chinese it would probably be good enough

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>I watch anime, pretty often

AMA about japan, especially their military infrastructure.

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>>32480852
>So why do the Japanese build comparatively light tanks instead?

Image not related? The Type 10 is lighter because it is made for Japanese mountainous terrain.

>>32481114
Still relatively light compared to western tanks.

>>32480852

Smart design, though it still looks big, so that's probably out

The armor package for the "lightweight" is several tons lighter than the actual war package

There's really no free lunch against KE attack, and the best you can really do is 125% against HEAT attack with good KE protection

>>32480891
More like Japan is really fucking mountaineous and pratically any long-distance travel will practically be done by train or boat - and japanese trains use narrow gauge rails specifically because of the lay of the land.

Hence tanks are limited in size by having to fit on train transports and the possible need for frequent transport by sea similarily makes lower weight/volume desirable, as makes the need to fight in mountaineous areas.

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>>32480985
pretty much this terrain dictates design, most of the rest of the world uses tanks designed for fighting in eastern europe and germany based on cold war threat assessments japan only designs to fight in japan

so what would happen to "typical" western or russia style tank that try to fight in Japan?

>>32481343
It would get tentacle'ed

>>32480852
>>32480898
There's also the fact that the tanks used optical fibers right off the bat, autoloaders and titanium alloy gun, so basically all these improvement would translate to lighter tank without really sacrificing protection.

Had it used a more conventional approach to build the tank, it would easily go beyond 50 tonnes

>>32481343
They couldn't use the rail network to travel. And would be much slower through the mountains.

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>>32481455
Similarly, the plan to upgrade M1A1/A2 into A3 variant also calls for such improvements, namely lighter computers, optical fibers and lighter main gun. With such improvements, they would expect up to 10 ton in weight reduction

>>32481506
>>32481455
>>your tanks will have better internet than your home

>>32480852
>Modern Western tanks go about 60-65 tons
Most modern West tank is a Leclerc. 57 tonnes. T-14 is going to be around 54-57.
"Modern" Western tanks 60-65 tons tanks are not "modern". They were designed in fucking 70th.

>>32481514
>your tank is not your home
absolutely disgusting.

>>32481506
>pic not related

Are you supposed to make others to take you seriously?

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>>32481533
>designed in the 70's*
Yes as designed to be completely modular to face future threats, the few modern western tanks that are designed as such maintain their "modern" status through this. yes they were still designed in the 70's,80's but they're still modern by MBT standards and the ability to switch out components for up-to-date ones contributes to them remaining modern.
Hell the t-90 is considered modern by a majority on this board mostly because Kontakt-5 which could literally be slapped onto any MBT

>>32480898
midget tank crews when?

>>32481533

An M1A2 SEP v3 or newest Leopard 2 is as modern as the T-14, anon.

>>32482281
just about all asians are small. not north korean small but

>>32482313
South korean are pretty tall tho, so are the iranian

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>>32480891
>aka their infrastructure is 18th century tier shit

>>32482806
countryside infrastructure. you wouldn't design an indigenous tank on the assumption that it will always be able to use the best infrastructure in country.

>>32482849
And yet almost all of modern warfare scenarios involved FIBUA.

>>32481618
Triggered much, fatty?

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>>32482849
This is 18th century to you?

>>32482917
95% of what it takes to get to a city is over smooth land but that 5% river/ravine is whats gonna fuck up your day.

>>32480978
>rude awakening
Probably not. They have thinner armor, but chances are that they won't face anything bigger than a 105mm equivalent on an armored platform. Anything the Chinese and Russians have with a 125mm is either too heavy to deploy or not armored enough to be much of a threat.
So in effect the Japs have tanks tailored to their needs, and should work well as long as they don't try to deploy them overseas.

>>32480978
>Leopard 2 meme
awwww how cute, an ameritard still salty about his shitty abrams :3

>>32481533
There's also the Merk 4 from 2003.
>inb4 jooz

>>32481006
>sub-par
>good enough
>against Chinese

RaughingChineseNLOS-ATGMcrew.png

>>32480852
>geography
They're made to defend Japan and nothing else.

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>>32482938
not forgetting the chinese tanks are soviet derivatives so they'll be fucked on mountainous terrain

It's been stated that the terrain is a key factor, but nobody has mentioned why they wouldn't have larger tanks for fighting away from their own country. I'm assuming that's from a lack of good ol' fashion book learnin'.
After WWII Japan was restricted by the US as to not have a standing army. They do, but as a defensive force only. Just figured I'd pop my snobby ass in just to clarify that to the children that seem to litter the board.

>>32482986

Nice bait. I bet someone will fall for it though.

>>32482986
It was mentioned >>32480985

>>32482306
Keep telling yourself that, anon, maybe you won't even bother changing your fucking Abrams in 2035.

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>>32483132
>their country cant build vehicles that will be combat effective through the 2050s

>>32483165

You realise that a fucking Cromwell would be combat effective given the current combat climate? Blasting holes in shit hasn't really changed.

Abrams was built for a war that never happened and now it's expensive fat ass is a nightmare to haul anywhere outside of the US.

That's the entire reason they were sticking 105s on Strykers so they wouldnt have to deploy Abrams for fire support roles and light anti-armour duties when literally anything else with a cannon could do it.

>>32482806
Why would they build it like that?

>>32483132

The only thing it's lacking is APS, and that can be fixed

You could update it to the new 130mm gun if you want

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>>32482946
It's not Western. And Merk, DESU, is a very specific machine for a very specific theatre of war.

>>32482943
All tanks are shitty lol.

ATGM master race.

>>32483756

APS nullifies ATGMs

And even without, the most up to date M1s/Leo 2s are actually better off today against AT-14 than the M60/Chieftain were against AT-3

ATGMs are good to compliment a defense, but they can't stop a proper armored assault by themselves. You need your own tanks.

>>32483480

Merk 4 uses a ton of Leopard 2 tech.

Gun. FCS derivative. Armor even comes from German tech.

>>32483425
>>32481533
As opposed to the lecleric. Who's armor is purely optimized for sabo and not atgms. You're a really smartguy you know that?

>>32483772
>laughing ukraine, syria, iraq, yemen wars.

You just launch more atgms at the same tank, thats exactly how all the western and russian tanks with that composite armor and APS/PPS have been getting blown up.

Missiles are a lot cheaper then tanks bro and are normally launched from an ambush or defensive hardpoint.

Its not like the movies where only one missile aims at a tank at a time, there are literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of ATGMs of all makes floating around warzones right now.

>>32483818
>thats exactly how all the western and russian tanks with that composite armor and APS/PPS have been getting blown up.

I don't know what tanks you are referring to, but look at the performance of Trophy from Gaza 2014. I hear that Shtora does pretty good in Syria, too.

>>32482806
nice gradient ya got there its sure going to be fun when someone stalls going up there in the middle of a traffic jam aint it ya hacks

>>32483480
Please explain the specificality of the Merk, thank you. From what I can tell, it's just like any other MBT.
>>32483477
What's the rationale behind USA not wanting to switch gun caliber ?
>>32484011
I think he's implying that 4+ maybe 20 different ATGM teams/platforms will fire on the tank at once

>>32483480
>Merk
>good

It's somewhat handicapped by the initial design considerations of the chassis

>>32484152
Please explain
>>32484132
Bump for my question.

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>>32484158
Bump

>>32482849
You're a retard.

Japan is a 1st world country, literally rivaling the US in infrastructure and strategic power.

>>32484158
No hull armor and shit ammo storage

>>32484129

>stall
>never heard of a hand brake
>never heard of being able to rev the engine and slowly release the clutch to prevent rolling backwards
>not having this as a standard part of a driving license

Know how I know you are American?

>>32484158
For an equivalent degree of gun depression, a front engine requires a taller vehicle. It reduces the volume available for composite armor. It generally, and in the case of the Merkava, does require a taller hull. The front engine also requires longer, i.e. heavier, composite armor skirts for side protection. Finally, the Merkava does not use integrated composite armor on the turret, where the cavity is integrated into the turret walls itself. Instead the composite armor is attached to the outside of the base steel armor; while this simplifies repairs, it leads to weaker armor.

So, unless there's some secret Jew magic, the Merkava, is more poorly protected, ton-for-ton, than comparable Western tanks.

>>32481506
>I have no idea what I am talking about but I will regurgitate information that was wrong a decade ago

>>32483425
>That's the entire reason they were sticking 105s on Strykers

M1128 exist because Stryker brigades trade armor for strategic mobility.

>>32483818
>Ukraine
>APS
>entire conflict taking place within Grad range of the Russian border

>>32484132
>What's the rationale behind USA not wanting to switch gun caliber ?

Rheinmetall shilling a future product doesn't mean anyone wants to change from their current 120/125mm guns.

>>32484480
Because you have an inferiority complex.

>>32481114
>The Type 10 is lighter because it is made for Japanese mountainous terrain.

You got a source on that? I heard that it was designed for urban pacification duties.

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>>32482963
How mountainous? Because the Type 99A is made to fight the 2nd Korean War. And North Korea is quite mountainous.

>>32484129
Clearly that Japanese bridge is meant for Japanese cars.

Trouble with your's, you say?

>>32486483
Except China made a light tank specifically for mountainous regions.