.223 Remington as HD caliber?

>>32447544
use nato 223 military surplus rounds. they will be 10 times more deadly

>>32447544
5.56 m193 is the best all-purpose loading.

>>32447544
Gonna second M193 loads (Wolf Gold is an example of ammo loaded like this), it's very potent, and .223 generally doesn't go through walls all that much in ball loadings.

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>>32447544
m193 is an old ass bullet that sucks at it's job, for a hd situation go >62gr and look into ammo like tap75gr, gold dot 69gr, black hills 77gr, barnes 62/70gr tsx, and any other heavy round that is designed to expand or fragment reliably at lower velocities.

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>>32447544

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>>32447544
.

I use the Nosler 64 grain bonded solid bases to make a clone of the Winchester RA556B that the FBI uses. I load with Varget and Fed golf match AR primers.

>>32447544
.223 is a good choice because you can kill your neighbour at the same time as the burglar.

So speaking of AR's for home defense, what's a good rifle light that won't break the bank? And how many lumens should I be looking for?

>>32448089
ariska scout copy or an m951 with a led conversion.

aim for 50-300lm

>>32447544
Get the zombie rounds.

>>32448052
Lol, you have an extra u there. That's why you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, it's not your fault.

>>32448309
>implying .223 won't go through a code wall.

>>32448089
Streamlight polytac. $35ish and very bright. It's not the best light but mine works great and it's well built by a reputable company.

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>>32448338
>code wall
Yep, Bongo as fuck.

>>32447981
For being ball, it's a pretty good performer.
But yeah, there's likely more efficient loads available these days.

>>32448439
>Deflects valid criticism
Yep, fudd as fuck.

>>32448504
http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/

>>32448439

photo does not apply unless fired from a 20" barrel, for under 20" look at ballistics gel for .22 magnum.

>>32447606
Seconding this. Lighter and they start to tumble and fragment when they hit a body or wall, so overpenetration in a house is less likely. Plus very affordable and easily acquired.

>>32448621
There ya go that's a little better. That said, I still wouldn't want to be on the other side of that wall, especially if non-expanding ammo was used.

>>32447544
Barnes TSX 70gr.
>>32447606
Why do civilians hamstring themselves with this crap? You don't have to use it, you can use anything.

>>32448643
WRONG.

Stop with this bullshit. The range at which the effect is reliable is decreased since M193's propellant doesn't fully burn in a 16" barrel, but it doesn't just stop happening.

>>32447544
Lighter bullets will actually divert more (hopefully key holing) and shed energy better with each successive barrier than heavier projectiles.

>>32447606
Fragmentation and tumbling at point blank range is fairly dubious with most FMJ military loadings, they don't tend to do very well terminally until some distance down range.
Better to go with a purpose made SD round such as Hornady TAP, varmint/hunting ammo, or similar.

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId758051

>>32448729

yes it does.

.300 ACC Blackout is much better out of AR. Use that instead. You don't even need to change anything on your AR to fire it, because it's interchangeable with 5.56mm.

Back when I looked it up from a 10.5 barrel if you care about over penetration on walls use >69gr loads.

is the ".223 doesn't go through walls" meme still around?

>>32447544
Youll either get "dude, .223 penetrates less than 9mm" or "dude, .223 is so deadly because it can pass through a few sheets of thin drywall"

The truth is, it depends entirely on the projectile and powder charge. There are loads that will do almost anything you want within reason, you just have to know what you want the bullet to do. Thats why .223 is a great choice for a hd round.

>>32448716

>>32448775
except the barrel. everything else can be the same.

I really like .300blk (because I want to run subsonic with a silencer), but the cost is just so high compared to .223/5.56

>>32448775
you need to change the barrel

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>>32448775
Clever girl.
Nothing like a 30cal bore obstruction to ruin your day.

>>32448794
Everything goes through walls, but some things go through less walls than others.

>>32448794
Not so much it doesn't go through walls as it loses energy quickly going through them.
>>32448775
This is still a meme tho

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>>32448794
Anyone who interpreted that demonstration to mean 5.56/.223 won't over penetrate or won't kill targets behind barriers deserves what they get.

>>32448643
Maybe if we're talking a 14.5" barrel at a distance, or a 10.5" barrel, but from a 16" barrel, M193 still performs pretty respectably.

People wouldn't be using 16" barrels if they didn't perform well enough (and it's not JUST a question of legality or practical length here)

>>32448775
It's good, but the question is if you want to invest in it, you'll want to handload if you want to keep it cheap to shoot.

>>32448851
.300BLK is a pretty good cartridge for some applications though.

>>32448867
I don't think anyone says it's 100% safe, but that it's safer compared to 00 buck, which is a stock answer for HD

>>32448774
No, it doesn't

>>32448835
>>32448851
>>32448867

these kinds of conversations usually result in someone trying to talk about the bullet that has the least wall penetration possible, but that seems like a poor goal for home defense, since I imagine that the bullets that are really good at punching holes through walls are also really good at punching holes through bad guys. So is the more appropriate question "what round is adequately powerful enough to reliably kill an intruder while not being unnecessarily powerful to minimize penetration through walls?" or am I missing something here and are there actually some rounds that are just inherently amazing at killing people while being extremely poor at penetrating sheetrock and wooden studs?

>>32448975
Power has less to do with it than bullet design.

>>32448975
People are a lot easier to put holes in than walls. Even these shitty walls in the states

Varmint loads are damned effective at medium to close range. The local pigs have started using them, mostly because they have a tendency to not leave ballistic evidence, but the reduced over pen risk is their official reason...

>>32448975
Youre correct. There is no magical cartridge that will reliably kill an intruder but wont pass through a couple layers of drywall and kill someone on the other side.

>>32449174
Actually there is. It's called hollowpoint 45ACP.

>>32449301
>hollowpoint .45
>not passing through drywall
>implying implications

>>32449301
2/10 bait at best.

>>32447993
>10"

kys

There's a video on YouTube under Billy Birdzell's channel of him using some kind of solid copper projectiles while hunting varmints / pests. A coyote takes a round in the jaw and he takes the thing's head in his hands and just smushes it in with his thumbs after that round pulped the coyote's skull.

Probably not good for penetration concerns b/c of solid copper design and high weight, but a pretty interesting round to check out.

>The sound of the 'yote's skull bits popping and grinding on each other haunt and sexually excite me.

>>32449522
Yeah, machined copper projectiles can give some pretty interesting results.

Check out some of Lehigh's bullets for things that improve performance considerably (such as a .32ACP load that meets FBI's penetration standard), and check out the G2 RIP for something which doesn't work and which is fucking retarded.

>>32449522
>he takes the thing's head in his hands and just smushes it in with his thumbs after that round pulped the coyote's skull.
That's uh, pretty gross.

>>32447544
No, you will kill your neighbors.

Use a shotgun, a handgun, or a pistol caliber carbine.

>>32449617
Don't listen to this retard or really anyone who says something like "pistol caliber carbine".

>>32449617
Shut up.

>>32449628
They're fun tho.

>>32449639
There's nothing wrong with the gun but the phrase "pistol caliber carbine" is some bullshit up there with "modern sporting rifle".

>>32449639
>using a rifle meant for engagements at 300 yards
>in your own home, at ranges not exceeding 15 yards

Derp.

>>32449662
Okay, CODy how about "SMG"?

>>32449677
Yeah, it's not like body armor isn't popular. Also, significantly better ballistics isn't good either.

>>32448716
Because M193 frags out to 150ish meters in a 16", it's readily available, it's cheap, it works in all twist rates, it's 5.56 pressure, thicker brass, the frag failure rate is low, and it's significantly better than standard FMJ projectiles.

Now, M855 is a shitty meme round for sure.

>>32449336
.45 is a slow round. Combine this with the tendency of hollow points to lose all their energy rapidly, and it's very unlikely that .45 will remain lethal after going through some brick walls, which is what every house is made of.

>>32452465
non-American detected.

>>32451465
why the fuck use FMJ at all? want fragmentation? use 55 gr soft points.

>>32451465
None of that makes any sense for civilian use.

>>32449628
>stop using a phrase that accurately describes a useful tool

I dunno, kys maybe.

>>32452632
>making up gay ass mouthful phrases for rifles
get aids

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>>32452638
He's right though, it's a fitting descriptor, it's a carbine, and it's in a pistol caliber.

>>32452465
>brick walls, which is what every house is made of.
Not in the states.
Drywall.

>>32449628
>A short, light rifle (AKA carbine)
>Chambered for a cartridge commonly used in pistols (9mm, .40, .45, 10mememeter)
Why is this wrong?

>>32452659
Not anywhere, or at least not in modern houses. Most non-load bearing walls will be drywall and maybe a layer of plywood

>>32452681
Where I am, cinderblocks are used for internal partition walls.

>>32452693
That's typical post-war construction. America hasn't had a war on its soil in a very long time.

>>32452698
...
I'm afraid I don't quite get what you're trying to say. I responded to a poster who said .45 wouldn't go through bricks, informing him that most walls aren't brick but drywall.

>>32452702
>Where I am, cinderblocks are used for internal partition walls.

Cinderblock =/= drywall

>>32452709
Yes I know, I was referring to US construction.

>>32452718
Having worked in construction, cinder block partition walls are not all that common in america outside of commercial buildings.

Get a shotgun or something in pistol caliber

>>32452659
Exterior walls are not drywall you dumb fucking Euro.

I'm amazed (not really) at how people here don't know what the word caliber means.

>>32452749

Alright you autist, I'll rephrase it for ya

OP, get a shotgun or something firing pistol cartridges

>>32452761
How is using the correct word for something autism?

>>32452741
We weren't talking about exterior walls you burger. Also, not a Euro dumbfuck

>>32452749
Inches, basically.

.45 caliber = 0.45 inches = 11.43mm

>>32452774
Whatever, foreigners are always stupid as fuck. External walls are the only ones that matter.

>>32452787
No, it's bore diameter. Either land to land or, less commonly, groove to groove.

>>32448775
This or 7.62x40 WT.

>>32452722
they're very common in the US pacific and Caribbean commonwealths and territories, though

>>32452631
You keep saying that, but it doesn't mean what you think it means.

>>32451377
I'm sure your neighbor will appreciate those "significantly better ballistics" when you shoot his kid through the wall

>>32453387
We've literally gone over this the entire thread.

>>32451377
>5.56 going through modern body armor
>criminals being able to afford body armor
>not just using a shotgun with buckshot and not worrying about body armor
>using a rifle zeroed for 300 yards in the confines of your home, in a densely populated area

Derp.

>>32453387
Listen numbnuts, any caliber will zip through interior walls. There is a huge difference between a 223 OTM and a 762 steel core in regards to penetration.

>>32452787
nope.

>>32453446
5.56 will penetrate modern body armor. Shotguns will not even penetrate Level 2 soft armor. In my AO, there have been several home invasions with armor being worn with Level 3A being most common. You think Jamal and Juan can't afford a stolen body armor, you are daft.

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>>32452741
glorious particle board.

>>32448794
OK, I get it, .223 penetrates walls. What is the minimum level of protection that I need to prevent it from penetrating the wall? I'm currently remodeling my house and won't mind installing extra armor in internal walls to make sure kids stay safe while Mom and Dad are busy having a heated conversation with dindus in the middle of the night.

Also, anyone's got any info about how .223 penetrates stucco? That's a totally different ballgame, and is an annoyingly varying ballgame depending on what mix and what mesh are used.

>>32454991
house made of load-bearing wall

>>32454699
Most people don't build their homes like Branch Davidians.

>>32447544
223 exlpoads on impact thats why the un uses it

>>32447588
nah, soft point ammo or HP ammuntion does more damage. FMJ ammo penetrates too much and doesnt dump all its energy into the target.

>>32447544
55 gr Hornady TAP Urban

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>>32451465
>shitty meme round
>identical performance.

Use polymer tipped rounds like vmax or zmax. If the price puts you off, get professionally reloaded rounds. There's a couple good companies who reload them and resell them.

>>32455737
I always see these 'wound channels' but no one knows where they come from.

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>>32456122
I cram them both in my HD mags.

>>32456182

Festive!

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>>32447588
>223 military surplus rounds

Those are called 5.56x45.

>>32456188
Never know when St. Tyrone is going to come visit.

>>32456138
source is in the picture...

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>>32455283
in mercuh they do apparently.

>>32457009
I can't read that shit, nigga.

>>32457081
Martin Fackler

>>32457111
Holy fuck, thank you. I finally found a source for the wound channel on aquamarine backgrounds graphics.

>>32448089
Depending on budget, a streamlight TLR-1 runs about $100 and is a great light. $20 more gets you the HL which is bright enough to be considered a weapon on its own

>>32457064
The houses are built to code. Most of the fire protection is provided by the sheet rock which slows down the spread of the fire by 30min from room to room.
The real issue is if you have a two story structure and they didn't seal off the lower floors wall with wood..
as then the fire can go straight up through the insulation and into the next floor.
Most houses pre 80s are like this.

>>32449662
noguns detected

>>32457117
you're welcome.

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It's bait if it ain't .308

>>32448167
Good luck explaining that at the trial.

>>32447544
it's fine as long as you shoot in 720p or higher

>>32457064
wood framing =/= building entire two story houses from plywood and particle board

>>32457258
They aren't RIP rounds.

>>32457665
Yeah, the ZMax ammo is actually good.

>>32454674
Derp.

>>32454991
You'd need to fill your walls with steel or sand to stop a .223

>>32457202
WHAT DID YOU SAY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

>>32459048
> fill wall with sand
> four inches of sand
> and you think this stops a bullet?

4 inches of sand wont even stop a 22lr much less a .223rem or 5.56nato

>>32459140
This.

I have seen .223 go through two houses and lodge itself in a school bus.

>>32457202
preach

>>32448774

no, it doesn't.

Go fuck yourself, faggot. 7.62x54R for life motherfucker

>>32459140
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-7-the-sands-o-truth/

>TLDR: no bullet from 9mm to 7.62 penetrates more than 6" of sand

Bet you feel dumb now, bakka

>>32459158
That's why you are filling your walls with sand in the first place, famalam

OP Here.

I did not expect this thread to gain much speed when I made it, so I left it off to do some of my own research. Mind you, i did quickly read through this thread, just to see any bullets to look into.
>>32447606
>>32447907
Seems like people are fond of the M193 loads. Mind you, i don't know enough about this, so i'll look them up
>>32455688
>>32456122
Most of my time has been looking at Hornady's website to find something that would work. I'm going to look into both the 55 gr TAP and the V-max ammunition

I guess I know what I'm going to be doing at the range this weekend.

>>32459587
Get Barnes TSX 70gr, shit is nasty.

>>32459587
M193 is generally nice because you can get it for cheap, so lots of it, if you're the prepping type, this is appealing, considering it's actually reasonably good.

However, for pure HD, Hornady (among many) can offer you quite nice defensive loads who excel in this role.

>>32459587
Op again.

I guess I should mention that I live in a standard Suburban house, so I might want something that'll keyhole after it passes through the first layer (the criminal, to be exact).

>>32457615
you can see the particle board walls...

>>32447544

>stopping power

Like all firearms capable of being fired from a human shoulder, it basically has none. It will kill things trying to murder you though.

75gr TAP (if you have a 1:7-1:8 barrel.)
Mk 262
M193 or clones.

Avoid outright trololo varmit loads. This is not your attempts at fucking where you get 4 inches of penetration and then there is a disappointing explosion. If it is capable of killing an attacker it WILL penetrate the shitty walls your house is made of, so concentrate on not missing.

you guys do realize that you're not military, you do not have to give a fuck about the hague convention and can just use soft points instead of "FMJs that just happen to fragment"?

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I could shoot 12 gauge 3" magnum slugs at my interior walls and it still wouldn't penetrate.
Funny dat.

OP here

I believed I narrowed down my list to a couple of bullets:
Hornady V-max 40 grain
Hornady V-max 53 grain
Hornady V-Max/Z-max 55 grain
Hornady 35 grain NTX superformance
Hornady 55 grain American Gunner Hollowpoint
Hornady 55 grain TAP FPD
Hornady 75 grain TAP FPD
Federal Premium 50 grain American Eagle JHP

I'd like to know if anyone has any ballistic gel tests on any of these bullets. I'd also like to know the effectiveness of bullets designed for varmints for defense.

>>32461847
I've been saying that for every one of these threads but no one cares, they all want to LARP US ARMEEE

>>32461946
>forgetting Barnes TSX but going for V-Max varmint shit
>bullets under 50gr

Top moron