lockheed martin agrees to cut costs of F-35

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>>32420934
I fucking told you fuckers.
It was just a ploy to lower prices.

Trump is an orange genius.

Obama just got Cucked by Lockheed

>>32421019
>rip ASH

>>32421027
That guy just looks like a cuck.
Being replaced with a badass general.

Lol
>"yeah we'll bring the costs down by $20mil per unit"
>"I knew it, we're gonna make this jet YUGE"
>unit prices fall to the already predicted levels once they enter FRP

>>32421090
Genius really. Both sides get political brownie points for almost no effort.

>>32421107
Trump has to be the smartest president ever to take office.

These next 8 years are going to be amazing.

>>32421121
Not true, George Washington had a brain for his heart, he was really smart. And he'll kick you apart.

>>32421138
His best idea was the Federal Reserve, and that was actually Hamilton's.

>>32421138
This is a maymay song, but if you don't know, look up how George Washington died.

>>32421169
*First Bank of the US as it was called in that time. Pretty much the precursor to the Fed.

>>32421019

>Trump is a genius!

>Lockheed-Martin before meeting:
>We're working very hard to get the prices down.

>Lockheed-Martin before meeting:
>We're working very hard to get the prices down.

WOW. What a huge difference! It's almost like Trump could have done nothing and the results would have been the same.

>>32421207
And by making an "issue" out of it, he makes himself look better.

>>32421218
He also is making LM look better, and the Public more accepting of the F-35 program.

This is Win-Win-Win. Only a fucking idiot would think what he is doing is bad. This is why he is President and you guys are shitposting on a Vietnamese rice farming forum.

>>32421255
>Only a fucking idiot would think what he is doing is bad
Crashing stocks is very, very destructive to the economy and the public at large. He's playing with fire for political points. Yay...

>>32421255

>And by making an "issue" out of it, he makes himself look better.

It makes him look like a complete ass actually. He did absolutely nothing to improve the situation, but simply wanted to take credit for work that other people were already doing.

>>32421255
>Only a fucking idiot would think what he is doing is bad.

He looks like he's crazy, its not good if the president look crazy.

>>32421274
Oh no, 1 company temporarily drops a couple percent. The world is ending.

Meanwhile, in reality the DOW is at an all time high and continues to climb.

>>32421274
The stock is where it was a week ago. The only people "hurt" by it are day traders. It's literally nothing.

>>32421274
>>32421289
>>32421298
Oops Lockheed shills. It looks like now you have to get a real job.

>>32421298
Sometimes looking crazy is a good tactic

>>32421255

>Only a fucking idiot would think what he is doing is bad.

Yeah man, threatening to cancel the highest priority project that the Pentagon has right when it is finally starting to pay off. What a genius move. Who would be against that?

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153905823756/the-new-ceos-first-moves-and-trump

>>32421289
>It makes him look like a complete ass

Only to people that actually follow the defense industry, which guess what, the unwashed masses don't. All they see is the headline that Trump called out the F-35 for costing too much money, and then another headline saying LM will lower the F-35 price.

>>32421307

>The only people "hurt" by it are day traders. It's literally nothing.

This is why being a day trader is retarded BTW. There is no benefit at all to reacting to short-term market shocks. A good portfolio will be able to do well in the long-term without any micro-managing.

>>32421333

>Only to people that actually follow the defense industry

Guess what anon?

I'm one of those people.

Trump made himself look like a total ass who doesn't know anything and is trying to get the credit for work that other people were already doing.

>>32421311
Fuck off I work for Northrup Grumman.

>>32421336
Well the whole point to day trading is to sell off right before the short term shock hits, but yeah that can be a very fine needle to thread.

>>32421347
Guess what anon?

You don't represent the vast majority of the people in this country. Trump will take looking like an ass to some people if it means looking better to a whole lot of other people.

>"I gave him my personal commitment to drive the cost down aggressively."
IE, what they've already been doing.

>>32421307
Plenty of stocks are on auto trade and too many people have their retirement tied up in the stock market.

Stop making excuses for irresponsible and reckless behavior.

>>32421356

Let's put it this way:

Anybody who actually makes money off of day trading is probably breaking the law by using insider information. It doesn't matter how smart you are, you cannot predict the short-term movements of anything as complex and emotionally driven as the stock market. Nobody could have predicted that Trump was going to Tweet about Lockheed on that exact day. And only idiots thought it was actually important enough to sell their LMT shares.

>>32421138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbRom1Rz8OA

Here is a historical documentary on George Washington.

>>32421397
well you can do technical analysis and stuff but this is exiting /k/ and entering /sci/ territory

>>32421393
No one has there retirement in just Lockheed stock. If they do they're retarded and deserve to lose money (which will be recouped shortly anyhow).

Diversify your investments. It's investing 101 and you clearly don't understand how the capital markets work as a whole.

>>32421431

>well you can do technical analysis

Technical analysis is great for long-term predictions. It does very little for short-term predictions. No amount of number crunching could have told you that Trump was gonna tweet about Lockheed on that exact day.

>>32421255
Wow 5d chess!

Or maybe the reality is that some SMEs knocked some sense into him

>>32421074
I wasn't talking about the faggot, I was talking about the Advanced Super Hornet.

>>32421311
The /pol/ack is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a faggot, parasite, delusional, shitposter, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But tell him >>>/pol/ and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”

>>32421445
You fucking mongo, it doesn't justify his fuckery.

>>32421445

>No one has there retirement in just Lockheed stock

Tell that to the 140,000 people whose jobs depend on the F-35. Tell that to countries that are depending on the US to deliver them a 5th generation fighter. Tell that to the Air Force, Marines, and Navy who are suffering from constant aircraft crashes because of this fuckery.

>>32421565
>>32421619
I was originally responding to the fuckwit who said that this bullshit between trump and Lockheed is crashing the markets and killing peoples investments. That is patently false. That has literally nothing to do with what Trump says, good or bad.

The F35 doesn't make or break the markets. It won't even make or break Lockheed. Calm your tits. I understand being upset about this but from a financial perspective nothing has changed for literally anyone

>>32421651

If Trump says something retarded, I'm not going to just pretend it makes sense when it doesn't. If that offends you then you should go somewhere else.

>>32421674
That is not my point at all. Honestly, i do like him. But I agree that when he says and does retarded shit he should be called out on it. This is an example where he should be called out.

I'm merely saying the markets won't be affected in the slightest by this. There may be a small temporary drop in one company but that means nothing in the big picture. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't call BS when you see it.

>>32420934
"We're going to do the exact shit we're already doing, but first time to say what we need to to keep the idiot happy."

FUCK YOU /K/ YOU SHOULD'VE VOTED HILLARY

I'M SICK OF THIS TANGERINE

>>32421869

Nobody on /k/ was ever going to vote for gun-grabbing Hillary.

>>32421869
You should have voted for me.

>>32421619
Lockheed shill detected.

>>32421869
No guns pls

>>32421962
How can they be shilling here if they don't sell to the public?

>>32421962

Not an argument.

>>32421207
wow CTR shills still didn't fuck off!

>>32421347
>I am a cafeteria worker at Lockmart

No one cares

>>32421990
CTR wouldn't waste money on /k/ postan. I'm sure it's a eurocuk noguns

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Guys I'm so tired of winning when will it stop?

Trump has won the election like three times now

Boeing and Lockheed come to him on bended knee

Saving jobs and calling Taiwan

Nips throw $50B in investments to US and stocks at all time high.

>>32421138
If he's so smart than why is he dead?

>>32422184
THE FUTURE BEWARE

He will return.

>>32420934
It's unlikely anything is actually going to change due to Trump's statements; Lockheed has already been running cost reduction programs for the F-35; the "Blueprint For Affordability" announced in 2014: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-06-12/lockheed-martin-follows-blueprint-drive-down-f-35-costs

And the new follow-up / expanded of the BFA program announced earlier this year: https://www.f35.com/news/detail/phase-ii-cost-reductions-announced-at-farnborough-2016

And as anyone familiar with the jet should be aware, the costs have been going down / will continue to go down until FRP in 2019.

>>32422184
Wow really makes u think

>>32422224
Yes but now trump can say he did something about it and the basement dwelling critics can quite down for awhile. Hopefully this means that f-35 purchases can finally be completed unmolested by the media as the left will be desperate to claim the f-35 is great and the right will be silent.

>>32421941
>>32421948
>>32421967
Hillary was the sane choice. Drumpf is going to sell out our republic to Russia and cleanse all non-white Americans.

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>>32422503
literally u dude

>>32422503
CTR baiter fuck off

>>32422503
There was no sane choice. This election was totally fucked.

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>>32422587

>There was no sane choice

WRONG.

>>32422503
>cleanse all non-white Americans
You say that like it's a bad thing. Seen what's been happening in the world lately?

>>32422607
A fucking white male

>>32422607
I was referring to the final nominees.

>>32421619
You're such a faggit

Trump, I ain't tired of winning yet, please let's keep it up!

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>>32422587
You're either not a gun owner or you count firearms as one of your many hobbies or fetishes, and therefore negotiable. Or you are fucking brain damaged. We had a pretty clear choice -- and not merely on the topic of the 2nd Amendment.

>>32422607
sub-winners only please

>>32422628

Again.

Nobody on /k/ was ever going to vote for gun grabber Hillary. Trump is an idiot, but he was the only other option. If I could have picked anybody who ran as the winner, I would have definitely picked Webb. But the Democrats (predictably) gave us Clinton instead. So we all had to vote for Trump.

And I'm glad he won. But I'm not going to just pretend that everything he says is correct when it isn't. Cancelling the F-35 project now that it is finally starting to pay off would be pants-on-head retarded.

>>32420934
As if they weren't just jacking up the price due to the governments endless pockets due to taxpayers who have to foot the bill whether they like it or not.

>>32422647
It was between a conman and a crooked politician, as far as I'm concerned they can both go to hell.

>>32422647
I have yet to see a picture of Hillary smiling that doesn't look creepy

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>>32422666
I liked Scott Walker, meself. Then Trump sucked all the oxygen out of the room and -- well.... yeah. I can either vote for a corrupt senile sickly old bitch who thinks the Supreme Court's job is to promote faggot rights and wants to kill or imprison me as a turrist, or I can vote for an orange-haired blowhard from New Yawk who may at least only fuck up half the time. Not a contest.

He's beginning to earn my grudging respect, though. Our new Secretary of the Interior is a goddam ex-SEAL. I like that.

>>32422666
stay dumb retard. if you have no understanding of his current tactics read a book and get educated, idiot

>>32422666
>> But I'm not going to just pretend that everything he says is correct when it isn't. Cancelling the F-35 project now that it is finally starting to pay off would be pants-on-head retarded.

the whole thing with f-35 is really just theatrics. Similar to Air force one and the Nuke. He's manufacturing fake crisis and then claim credit for resolving them.

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>>32422716
>>32422697

>hurr durr he's just pretending to be retarded!

>>32422716
He's establishing a goddam bargaining position. We've been watching him do this for thirty years, FFS.

>>32421393
>Plenty of stocks are on auto trade

if you auto trade from a couple percent drop then you are a retard

>too many people have their retirement tied up in the stock market
>Stop making excuses for irresponsible and reckless behavior.

said without a hint of irony

bravo

>>32422587
WRONG.

>>32422730

Bargaining position on WHAT?

The R&D money has already been spent. No amount of bargaining will get it back. After all that time and effort, we finally have a workable product. Why on Earth would we go back to the drawing board to trying to mash together a new super hornet variant instead? That would take years!

>>32422730
There is no bargaining to be done on contracts that have already been made, especially ones that he has no actual bearing on. He's making noise so that it looks like he's actually working to clean up Washington, while in reality he's just making a racket.

>>32422764
>>32422766
Procurement. It was overfunded and dysfunctional under Dubya, and it's a lot worse under sequestration.

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>all these lockheed shills
pathetic, you guys are literally worse than jews

>>32421255
>shitposting on a Vietnamese rice farming forum.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i8a3gjt_Ar0
Also checked.

>>32422730
>>32422766
his main bargaining position is how much his base love him.

Manufacturing and solving fake crisis is his way of endearing himself to his base. He can point to his past "accomplishment" if people start to go against him.

>>32422796

So he's not really solving any problem with the F-35. He's just using the situation to engage in shameless self-promotion. Which is exactly what I've been saying all along.

>>32422271
This 2bh. Plus waht others have said, Trump gets points for reducing waste on govt spending (even if ther's no real difference).

>>32422587
Should have nominated Jeb!

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>>32422837

>Trump gets points for reducing waste on govt spending

Yeah, about that......

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>>32422784
>I don't have anything to back up my opinions, but I'm going to keep saying them!

>>32422807
>>32422796

A plan that would be good, except Lockheed and Boeing have a lot more friends then he does in congress.

He's going to get his balls cut off. The K street friends of Lockheed are going to go around saying things like "confused" and "out of his depth" and "unfriendly for business."

When congressmen start repeating it he's a lame duck a month into his term.

>>32422787
Stay mad that you're wrong and stupid on the F-35.

The rest of us actually know the F-35 is an amazing fighter at a great price, and we can pull up the data to prove it.

>>32422867
Thats what happens when you lower taxes while also engaging in massive projects like building a 1900 mile long wall and significantly increasing the size of the navy.

I think that chart is still exaggerated, it will still be terrible though.

>>32421350
>can't even spell the name of the company you work for
baka senpai

>>32422900
They don't pay me well enough for that.

>>32422888
trump's managed to win the republican nomination and the presidency while pissing on the old school republican.

He's definitely basking in his Honey moon period and seeing how far he can push.

I think the recent drone tweet with China was really him going for more points, but quickly back down when he realize the Chinese is having none of it.

>>32422727
the fact that you saved that so recently leads me to believe you are a retard newfag my kid

>>32422867
>nat debt means something
>t. retarded pseudo-intellectual

>>32422966
It doesn't so long as you can service it and it debt to gdp remains reasonable.

>>32421533
No, anon, wrong kind of technical analysis.

The "technical analysis" used in short-term trading is the concept that short-term market prices can be predicted to some degree based on how the prices are moving. Trading based on actual facts and news is called "fundamental trading".

Yes, is sounds crazy, but the idea is that short-term price movements can reflect and predict the attitudes of people who are on the bubble about making a move (including, of course, other day traders--a *lot* of trades are just these guys shuffling digital money back and forth across the roulette wheel that is the market).

Whenever somebody on TV talks about "support" or "pressure", or draws lines across trading charts, they're using technical analysis. This stuff has been going on for decades, and it's heavily-researched--but, partly because so many people do it, it's hard to do, because traders will alter the outcomes based on the trades they make trying to anticipate a move.

>>32420934
I'm starting to get tired of all this winning and he hasn't even taken office yet.

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>>32421941
Eh, I did.

The choice was between a competent gun grabber and an authoritarian gun grabber with insecurity problems. Doesn't matter at this point, I'm just praying we don't break out in civil war or get in a war with Russia/China.

This country is a drunk walking on a cliff's edge and nobody seems to care.

>>32421332
Scott Adams writes good shit.

>Trump shitposts
>Lockheeb decides to cut cost
TRUMP DID NOTHING REEEEEEEEE

Jesus christ, these fucking CTR, Trump can have world peace tomorrow and they would say it's going to happen without Trump.
>>32423104
An actual Hillary voter on /k/, modern 4chan everyone.

>>32422796
Is the Migrant Crisis a fake crisis?
>>32422807
>>32422888
Trump said some shit and shit happens.

He's not even Pres yet and he's already getting shit done.

>>32421207
>Lockheed-Martin before meeting:
>We're working very hard to get the prices down.
Source?

>>32422890
>we can pull up the data to prove it.
so why didn't you ;)

>great price
this nigga

>>32423281
They always have been, they've predicted a decline in price per-unit since the beginning of the program. Projected price is $80mil for the F-35A at peak production I believe

>>32423454
So now if that projected price gets lower, that means Trump did something or not?

Because all this projection stays the same through 10 years of the F35, and they only speak of "driving down the cost aggressively" yesterday.

>>32423483

Who's to say? Lockmart's been prioritizing their stock price for a while now and, if I understand correctly, have a fixed minimum profit margin on a jet that was designed and sourced at a time where Global Outsourcing was generally considered the best thing ever. If the subcontractors get consolidated, they can probably push down the costs more aggressively than they can now.

>>32422764
>>32422766
>>32422796
You do understand that the government CAN CANCEL contracts, right? Especially those for future buys that haven't been physically done yet?
Heck, the government can cancel contracts period.

>>32423510
Every merchant is the same, whether big or small, they will never lower the prices as long as no one speaks up.

>>32423544
One actually should always haggle as long as they have time.

>>32423510
...which will probably be easier when corporate tax rates get slashed and building things in Los Estados Unidos all of a sudden becomes more cost effective.

He's bargaining. With a triple side helping of self promotion. And he isn't even in office yet.

I *am* beginning to like this son of a bitch.

Why is saving money a wrong thing?

>>32423573
>Why is saving money a wrong thing?

People get angry over the method of delivery. Threatening to throw the baby out with the bathwater gets results but it doesn't make anyone in the business happy.

>>32423573
What makes you think we saved money?

Because Pravda told you? Because a businessman made promises?

>>32421332
>The balding pencil-necked nerd who wrote the Dilbert comics in the 90s has a much younger Instagram whore as a girlfriend
Damn, talk about punching above your weight

america should just buy MIGs

>>32423721
Fix up those Russian jets because true stealth is kinda retarded in dogfights.

>>32423524

Except all that money spent developing the F-35, sourcing all of the parts, and a massive factory to assemble them in Texas cannot be recovered. Meanwhile, we'll have pilots struggling to get flight hours to maintain their edge, and even dying in mechanical failure related incidents because the US combat aircraft average age and flight hours is climbing every day.

>>32423641
Wait, so you're telling me that we should never EVER question corporate accounting?

That we should NEVER ever question if we're getting played by businesses?

There's a fucking reason why the Wollman Rink took 6 fucking years over 12 million bucks under government supervision in New York, before Trump took over and Trump only needed 3 months to finish the damn thing 775k under a 3 mil budget and two months ahead of schedule.

Because you keep your fucking contractors accountable. If Boeing and Lockheed Martin aren't being accountable, they'll just keep taking money from you and blame overrun costs.

Reminder that a recent report said our entire defense budget at the Pentagon has a $125 billion bureacratic waste problem. Our defense budget a year is around 500 billion. That's a shitload of money.

It's because of you non-questioning little shits that the government just spends money willy-nilly.

>>32423585
There's nothing wrong with holding people accountable with our tax money.

>>32423791
>I believe everything the government and their defense contractors say about expenditures without any audits being taken to make sure that what they say is true
You're on /k/.
And you're literally just sucking defense contractor/government dick?
We gun owners are like the very first people government generally shits on with lies about protecting our 2A and you just accept that shit at face value?

>>32423721
Why? Isn't the F22 better than the Migs?

>>32423721
This actually makes sense. Buy the same planes everyone else has, and then do some secret modifications to enhance them, and now you have planes which you know for sure are better than what everyone else has.

>>32423858

While having all of the same structural and maneuvering limitations, and not maintaining domestic infrastructure and know-how? No thanks.

>>32423822
>Wait, so you're telling me that we should never EVER question corporate accounting?
I'm saying it's illogical to assume that two people could come together and hammer out a multi-billion dollar deal in a few hours to find savings that bureaucrats and budget hounds couldn't find over a few years.

Trump is putting on a dog and pony show because he knows nobody is going to care a month from now.

>>32423858
That still sounds dangerously messed up and useless.

>>32423834

How is a populist tweet from the President elect, followed by a single meeting with that company's CEO in any way comparable to an audit?

This is theatre. I wasn't saying it to support LM, I was pointing out that LM knows that a threat to cancel the F-35 is a hollow one, that tweet was squarely aimed at the public.

If Trump wants to get an auditor in on the F-35 program, that's great, except from the looks of OP's article he seems to be taking the LM CEO's word for it. So which of us is sucking government/LM dick here?

>>32423858
But what if everyone everywhere makes secret modifications? Then you have no guarantee that yours are the best.

>>32423867
>maintaining domestic infrastructure and know-how?

maned fighters will be replaced by uavs eventually anyway.

Trump is the best thing to happen in a long time.

>>32423869
Of course you don't hammer out deals in a few hours. But you have to start fucking somewhere. A promise is merely a starting point. Are you an illiterate mongrel that this doesn't make sense to you?
Boeing and LMT CEO goes to Mar-E-Lago, Trump only gets Boeing promise as concession, nothing from LMT.
Trump says this shit is a dance because LMT didn't do the same as Boeing did.
Trump fucks LMT's stocks the next day with a Tweet.
LMT CEO then promises a concession the next day.
Giving a promise doesn't mean billions of dollars are identified right then and there. It's merely the start of the process.
The same shit you do with contractors with just about every fucking industry in the world.
You can't say this is only a dog and pony show with no proof. And what if Trump actually follows up months from now. What are you going to say then?

>>32423872
Read >>32423879

Also, governments can cancel contracts, especially for undelivered future products. That threat isn't hollow at all because they have power to do so.

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Were reaching persuasion levels that shouldn't even be possible.

>>32423876
Trump is questioning every single orthodoxy that's been set in Washington DC since Eisenhower and Nixon. Don't really have a problem with it.

>>32423879
>Are you an illiterate mongrel that this doesn't make sense to you?
Are you so gullible as to believe everything told to you?

I'm not saying this won't work, I'm saying you have no reason to believe it will.

>>32423906
>I'm not saying this won't work, I'm saying you have no reason to believe it will.

Unless I'm mistaken about a few (you)'s, you've been implying that it should not be tried.

>>32423906
>Are you so gullible as to believe everything told to you?
I'm not the idiot (YOU) who believes that government/defense contractor numbers are all accurate without an audit. We are wasting $125 billion dollars in defense spending every year. That's a quarter of defense spending as a whole.

A promise is merely a starting point. It doesn't mean anything aside from being a starting point.

>I'm not saying this won't work,
>I'm saying you have no reason to believe it will.
We won't know if we don't try, you dumbshit. Instead of just swallowing all that defcontract cock, shut up and let people negotiate. Dude's trying to save you money and you're automatically saying it won't work.
Again, people like you are the reason we even have a $125 billion bureaucratic waste problem at the Pentagon.
No government program is sacrosanct. Check them all out.

>>32423887

Except there is no cost reduction process going forward identified. There might be in future, which is great, but this meeting in itself has not resulted in even a commitment to a future meeting where the numbers will be discussed in detail. This is the LM CEO saying that we'll make the price lower in future, when the price was already supposed to be dropping anyway.

And yes, the government can cancel a contract, I won't argue with that, my point is that cancelling it now is cutting off your nose to spite your face. It might intimidate defense contractors into not taking the Pentagon for a ride, but you can guarantee that developing then building replacement aircraft for the F-16C/D, F/A-18, F/A-18E, and AV-8B which are as capable as the F-35 will take far more money and time at this point. LM knows this, they aren't idiots.

>>32423916
I never said anything of the sort.

What I said, and what I'll say again is that this is all political theater and you're all idiots for eating it up.

>>32423929
>Except there is no cost reduction process going forward identified.
BECAUSE IT JUST GOT STARTED, YOU MORON.

>>32423932

I question your definitions of "all" and "eating it up."

>>32423932
>you shouldn't try to fuck with current defense contracts because it's all political theater even if there's that chance that it can produce savings because TRUMP EBIL
I really hate partisan jackasses.

>>32423928
>without an audit
But we do audit them. We have several government agencies whose job it is to audit these things.

You can read the GAO reports right now.

>>32423929
Just because none is identified now, doesn't mean one won't be identified in the future.
Just because there's no set meeting in the future right now, doesn't mean one won't be set up in the future.
Just because it'll become cheaper in the future, it doesn't mean it can't become even more cheap in the future than current estimates.

You jumped several logical loops there.

>>32423943
How's that strawman coming?

>>32423943
Seems like you are one as well. If they make real progress, that's great because we waste far too much money on "defense" spending. Given the other things Trump has done prior to taking office, I'll withhold judgment until something actually happens. Hopefully he succeeds. At this point, it's just political theater.

>>32423944
>Pentagon buried an independent report done that was under Congress' orders that identified $125 billion in defense spending waste
The GAO isn't the end all be all of government accounting.

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/02/bogdan-predicts-f-35s-for-less-than-80m-engines-included/?utm_campaign=Breaking+Defense+Daily+Digest&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=26188987&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--0xcFtXl1v3h_Ll7nVqhzmwlR5gQBU_SodreT_PUd0oQ8DLeUCw5PTcdrL_lhryX1zlj1Ww1utp2BkVAwK8B0rvkSnTg&_hsmi=26188987

>February 11, 2016 at 4:14 PM

>>32423949
>>32423951
I'm not partisan. I also have my misgivings with Trump. But the positions you have taken are just as retarded as antigunners saying all guns should be banned to save even one life and that we shouldn't even go for education or other non-banning methods, because people will still get killed and nothing will change outside of banning guns.

>>32423956
>The GAO isn't the end all be all of government accounting.
I never said it was, I'm merely pointing out that the assertion that there have been no audits is unfounded.

>>32423966
The strawman just got ten feet higher!

>>32423958

They've been predicting it for a while. The timetable for realizing those numbers is more than a little bit nebulous, and some forced public clarity on it would be welcome.

>>32423968
Just because the government has an auditing service, that doesn't mean they can't be audited again for more savings. Before anyone should shit on the guy, let him do his work.
If he manages to Wollman Rink the entire government budget, then that's a great thing. Immediately saying it's useless is the reason why we've had bullshit costs that has gotten us to 20 trillion in debt.

>>32423983
>saying it's useless
I didn't say it was useless, I said the laudations and celebrations are premature and undeserved.

>>32423966
I'm >>32423951 and it was my first post in this thread. What's the point engaging in a discussion when it's primarily ad hominem attacks and nobody makes any effort to be consistent, defend their points beyond restating them, or address their opponents points without resorting to a straw man argument?

Political discussions should stay on /pol/, and this thread is entirely politics. It doesn't seem like there is anywhere on the internet with a respectful and well intentioned discussion of politics or the issues. It sure as shit isn't 4chan.

By the way, saying "you're just like the gun grabbers!" is trite and over used and will convince no one. More of your post was spend on that rather than making a convincing argument for your position (which I happen to agree with). That being said, everyone celebrating in this thread is getting way ahead of themselves.

>>32424011
>It sure as shit isn't 4chan.

It sounds like 4chan to me.

>>32424013

Donald Trump is presumably not allowed to be praised without results, and not before a thorough nitpicking is supplied.

>>32424011
Well, the logic is pretty gungrabberish to be honest.

>>32424021
Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing.
Trump is getting insults for starting negotiations on lowering the price of expensive military programs.

>Spend billions developing F-35
>It ends up being utter shit due to last minute brutal cost cutting
ayy
kek

>>32424030

Yep. The optimism was real. Now, the hate is real.

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>>32424030
I'll remember that the next time I'm handing out Nobel Prizes.

>>32424016
You have extraordinarily low standards for "respectful and well intentioned discussion".

>>32424030
They probably should have given to the american people and said "congrats on electing a black guy", which seems to have been the justification.

>>32424035
Fuck that expensive helmet, just give the pilot a bump helmet and say "Go get 'em, champ!". Also, cancel the F-35B and tell the marines to suck a cock.

>>32424047
>You have extraordinarily low standards for "respectful and well intentioned discussion".

I don't have low standards for quality discussions - I just don't expect them from 4chan.

>>32424047
>which seems to have been the justification.
It was because he promised to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but more accurately as a giant "fuck you" to George W. Bush.

>>32424011
>Political discussions should stay on /pol/, and this thread is entirely politics.
It's an F-35 thread.

If anything, this is the most pertinent Trump-related topic on this board in over a week.

>>32424052
It's hilarious because there's been more civs killed by drones in the last 8 years, more wars elsewhere, and there are still troops in both countries.

>>32424062
A real laugh riot.

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>>32424037
>the hate is real

>>32424062
Haha extrajudical murder of american citizens overseas :^)

>>32424071
Didn't mean it that way, but yeah, still hilarious that a Peace prize was given to a warmonger.

>>32424071
Wasn't there only one American citizen who was killed in an extrajudicial manner? Most of the deaths, IIRC, aren't Americans.

>>32421138
Most people don't know that George Washington was a really rich guy (worth half a billion dollars in today's money). He was one of the largest landowners in the US at the time of his inauguration.

>>32424122
He's like Trump - land wealthy. That is to say, he has a lot of assets on paper but almost no liquid cash to be truly "rich".

IIRC, he had to struggle to keep Mount Vernon afloat. That's one of the reasons why he didn't free his slaves until he died.

>>32423935
>>32423948

What got a commitment to be started? Nothing. That is the point, there MIGHT be in the future, which is why I don't understand why this tweet and the subsequent meeting gets anything more than passing interest.

Giving Trump credit for saving money on the F-35 program now is just as dumb as giving Barrack "Drone Strike" Obama the Nobel Peace Prize just for getting into office.

>>32424153
Tweet -> leads to a meeting -> leads to promise from Boeing CEO to lower cost but not from Lockheed Martin CEO -> leads to another tweet -> leads to LM CEO promise to lower cost

>What got a commitment to be started?
prom·ise
noun
noun: promise; plural noun: promises

1. a declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that a particular thing will happen.
"what happened to all those firm promises of support?"
synonyms: word (of honor), assurance, pledge, vow, guarantee, oath, bond, undertaking, agreement, COMMITMENT, contract, covenant

Oh look!

For illiterates: promises are simply the starting point. But without that, nothing gets started at all.

>>32424175
If you're going to suck Trump off, at least have the decency to do it behind closed doors.

>>32424150
The difference between land back then and land back now is that there was a lot of real estate that was unoccupied back then. A corner lot in New York City is inflated in price now, because there isn't enough real estate there and everyone wants to live in the place.

>>32424179
>can't make a coherent counterargument
>talk shit instead

>>32424122
A lot of US Presidents are rich I think.

Trump taking credit for what was done during the Obama administration. Trump looks like an idiot and a stupid nigger. It's actually impressive when the white guy is a bigger nigger than the black guy. MAGA!

>>32424150
Is it only the plantation that he had? I thought he had other businesses too?

>>32424202
t. Sen. Lindsay Graham

Why is the F-35 like a religion?

>>32424215
It's not, it's a catspaw in a political war.

>>32421138
He'll save children, but not the British children.

>>32424175
And when that commitment is just the company doing what they were already doing?

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>>32420934
FUCK OFF
SUPER-DUPER-HORNET NOW

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>>32420934
WE LITERALLY CANT STOP WINNING
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1FW36keZJw

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Thank Christ, I don't care if Lockheed haven't really done anything. I was legitimately thinking trump would cancel the F-35 for awhile.

The JSF is a product of Desert Storm-era thinking. We're only bombing sandniggers three weapon generations behind us might as well cut costs and roll all roles into one plane.

But as of 2016 this is a completely outmoded concept since it is clear that war HAS changed and if we ever get into another hairball it will be against Russia.

It will be a completely different ballgame with the russians so for starters this JSF bullshit needs to be shelved and F-22 rebooted (although there's probably enough raptors to paralyze the russian airforce)

The above also proves Trump is fucking retarded.

>>32420934
bend the fucking knee

this was all to make Trump look good and lockmart look like bitches to the general public, and that's exactly what happened

fucking imbecile lockmart shills getting so worked up about this on /k/, how much of a pussy do you have to be to defend a company run by a woman?

>>32424343
> if we ever get into another hairball it will be against Russia.
I doubt it.
Those guys already own most of the Eurasian continental landmass, have a shrinking population, and their leaders have self-preservation instincts. Most of their current actions are based on creating land barriers to Russia and air defense deterrents. They also don't have the economy to compete.
If we're going to get into a new war, it will probably be with China. A large chunk of their country is desert and they have to take care of 1.5 billion people. They also have the economy and industrial capacity to do the actually challenge us.

Save money where you can. I don't think that's a bad thing.

>>32422184
Keked.

>>32424407

Russian communists (Putin is a KGB major) were some of the sneakiest motherfuckers in the planet.

They will push against the US, swallow another couple small european countries until they completely dominate Europe with their influence.

We will adopt the nice isolationist stance until one day people realize that the Soviet Union 2.0 is in place and we're absolutely fucked being the last man standing.

I spent a couple years in Moscow and I know these people. They are still playing the game we quit 30 years ago. I'm not saying go hard on them but they need to know US still has balls. Trump is the exact opposite and they know it.

>>32424424
Honestly, they still think we're playing the game because we moved NATO right to their doorstep instead of letting those countries act as buffers.

>>32424255
look at the stupid stealth pod that only holds 2k compared to 6k on the f35 and has the aerodynamics and speed of a brick

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Trump really is a stupid nigger! HAHAHAHA

thing costs more than a f35 too

>>32423281
>We're working very hard to get the prices down [but you need to give us more money to do that]
that has been their mantra for years now

>>32424389
Trump looked unamerican but there's no reasoning with someone like you and your furher

>>32420934
Remove stealth
Remove radar
Give a f4 phantom instead

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>>32421393
>too many people have their retirement tied up in the stock market.
>Stop making excuses for irresponsible and reckless behavior.

Hah, good one. Loving every laugh ;)

>>32424175

Except a promise to minimise costs has no legal definition, and could easily be taken to mean what they were already doing. LM were already under a commitment to reduce unit costs with each LRIP batch as the full-rate production approaches.

If LM keeps doing what they were already doing they would fulfil that promise by any reasonable definition. Trump might as well have got the LM CEO to promise the F-35 will have wings and a jet engine while he was at it.

>>32424456
fuck off

F117RETALIATOR
>How do I pick one?
>I've got money.

>>32423281
He doesn't have a source, he's talking out his ass in rage because Bernie Sanders didn't run as the Democrat, who would've lost even more states to Trump.

>ITT: Shills
Trump gives Boeing shit about the Airforce 1 project. A week later, he does the same to LHM about the F-35, offering up Boeing as an alternative developer.

What he's doing is simple, it's not 5d chess. He's making it apparent to both companies that he's the boss now and they better fall in line. It's a stock standard wake-up call. Most President Elects do it in one form or another, the only difference is they do it privately.

>>32421138
He's coming
He's coming
He's coming

>>32424482
Sieg Heil

>>32424496
Just like a dictator

>>32421619
On behalf of my squadron who flies these types of dated and crashing airframes, (FA-18C) I can say in confidence that we would all prefer the super hornet over the shillhawk5000.

>>32421948
Gary?

>>32424518
fuck off

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>>32424519
>when you want to make the galaxy great again but there is a disturbing lack of faith

>>32421347

>I'm one of those people.
And there are other defense contractors here too, and those of us whose jobs weren't directly tied to that garbage piece of vaporware despise it.
I suggest you go watch Pentagon Wars for reference

>>32424573
>Dat Hornet Mafia

>>32424470
Too many people have their savings tied up in REAL ESTATE, and they voted for decades to flood the country with foreigners, just to keep their real estate prices high

>>32424631

Has anyone else seen the list of contractors,suppliers,vendors,for the F35?

Literally every company that matters has a stake in JSF. SRS, if you're that far detached from this project, your company is shit

>>32424456
get fucked shill

>>32424255
Fuck the Hornet, they need to make the Tomcat III. We have the technology.

>>32423721
>Trump administration
>Buying foreign
Nice joke m8

>>32424631
Do you know how to lose the last little piece of credibility? Use Pentagon Wars in anything other than sarcastic remarks

>>32422519
>the aim of socialism is to bring the lower classes into the middle class and dissolve the upper classes
no
the aim of socialism is "worker ownership of the means of production" and the abolition of all class.

under most socialist analysis there is no "middle class", there are the the proletariat, the petit-bourgeois and the bourgeois. Most people find themselves in a proletariat. if you find yourself working for a living, you are the proletariat, even if you're a well paid doctor (unless you attain significant capital assets from this, then things get muddy, but income in itself is irrelevant.), if you work for a living but own a small business and employ others (exploit their labour) then you're petit-bourgeois (say, you're a plumber who runs a small plumbing firm , but you also do plumbing yourself) and if you essentially live off your capital (i.e. you started a successful business in the past but now lay idle on the profits, you inherited the money and pay someone else to run an investment portfolio, etc.) you are unambiguously bourgeois.

then we spiral into attacks on the welfare state (even though in the USSR work was mandatory if you were able.) and [safety] regulation (even though the USSR was the country that sent workers almost unprotected into a melted reactor spewing radiation all over Europe.)

"socialism" proposes the workers control industry - not their bureaucratic representatives as in the USSR. (The USSR obviously not being our working example thanks to the above.)

When you take analysis of socialism from a bunch of kikes who actively want to conflate any state interference with socialism (and thereby destroy Keynesianism) you wind up with the kind of currency-and-bank deregulation that has weakened the west since the 1970s (because rich westerners no longer need care for their countries, they can always fuck off to the Bahamas while they collapse, but currency controls would be socialism.)

t. Nationalist-Capitalist

>>32424745
Finally, something we can all agree on.

Start with the Super-Tomcat 21, or the F-14D?

>>32424827
No, brand new airframe but in the same vein. No point updating such old hardware, build new ones from the ground up. Of course the old blueprints and concept can be a starting point.

>>32420934
Whether Trump changed anything or not, it "proves" that Trump can get things done.

Prepare for 8 years of Trump presidency.

>>32424810
I love this pic. Hard triggers first year I just got out of highschool economics class kids so hard.

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>>32424631
>>32424631

>I suggest you go watch Pentagon Wars for reference

>>32423243
>Trump shitposts
>Lockheed continues cost-cutting programs already in progress
FTFY

>>32421019
#Artofthedeal

>>32422949
>quickly back down when he realize the Chinese is having none of it.
I don't remember him baking down. I doubt he'd care what the Chinks say either.

>>32421019
All those dumb libs in that thread got BTFO

>>32421121
He's no Thomas Jefferson, but he's pretty damn good.

>>32424631
>go watch Pentagon Wars for reference

Are you joking?

>>32422949
lol you can hate him all you want but he did not back down with China.

>>32423729
It's not about dogfights.

>>32423354
Maybe have an argument other than "hurr gurbuge!"

>>32421207
stop being mad that they won't get as much welfarebux.

1000% mad.

>>32421274
Idk, my teammates thought Trump would crash the stock market. They don't save money to invest in stock however.

I do, and I'm up 15% since election.

>>32423559
>Reminder that literally no company actually pays full tax rates and labor costs are what send companies overseas

The only thing Trump's tax plan will do is accelerate the rich getting richer, and the poor getting poorer.

>>32421619
Oh fuck off you overdramatic faggot

liberals suddenly started caring about military spending and equipment, give me a break

>>32423875
Even if UCAV-only were to happen, which it won't, how the fuck does that invalidate his point?

>>32423889
Why does Pence always look smug?

>>32423879
>LMT CEO then promises a concession the next day.
No, they basically just said "yeah, sure, we'll get on what we're already working on Donny."

>>32423896
He's a bull in a china shop, trashing everything because he has no idea what anything does.

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>>32425917
he just finished turning a fruit into a vegetable

>>32423929
>Except there is no cost reduction process going forward identified.
You mean like THE ENTIRE PRODUCTION OPTIMIZATION PLAN THAT HAS KEPT THE F-35 UNDER TARGET COST AND A LOWER PRICE AT EACH STAGE SINCE 2009!?

>>32425930
>he has no idea what anything does
Every post-election endeavour of his has proven to be a success .

>>32425949
-Walked back from his position of building a wall across the border.
-Carrier plant deal saved only 800 out of 1400 jobs

>>32424175
>Implying anything actually came from the Boeing meeting, that Trump wasn't completely ill-informed about the AF-1 replacement costs, or that the 2-airframe $4b price is even a determined value yet

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>>32424200
Most have been pretty well off, but not that rich.

Trump is both rich and loves to flaunt it.

>>32424437
>Help keep us from being reabsorbed by Russia!
>Hurr moved NATO in

>>32421312
That's my tactic

>>32425891

What exactly do you want? Cancelling the F-35 after it has gotten this far would be completely stupid. I'm not going to pretend that Trump is some kind of genius when he makes completely moronic statements.

>>32425999
Looks horrifically new money.


Only thing worse than someone that is nauseatingly rich is someone nauseatingly rich with zero taste to speak of

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>>32425743

Do you actually believe that Trump throwing a tantrum on Twitter has actually changed the situation in any way?

>But they're stock went down!

So what? That doesn't do anything to make the planes cheaper. The program office has done a great job reducing costs on their own. The price of the F-35 has already gone down because of their work, and it will continue to go down because of their work. Trump's autistic shit-posting has nothing to do with it.

>>32425944
DONT GIVE ME FACTS AND NUMBERS IT TAKES AWAY MY MEEEEEEMES!!!!

>>32425743
>Implying Trump's actually changing anything on the F-35 deal

>>32426087
The thing is, he got the major core of his wealth as inheritance from his far slimier and much more competent slumlord father.

A man so awful Woody Guthrie targeted him personally in song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jANuVKeYezs

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>>32426089
And his tweets basically were a meaningless tiny fluctuation.

>>32426205
shut up you stupid commie. his father was well liked.

>>32426256
Maybe among other rich assholes.

>>32425934
kek

>>32425977
>-Walked back from his position of building a wall across the border.

This queer bait has been reading fake news.

>>32420934
>We're ready to deliver

LOL

They we're just draining government money...Fucking Lockheed cunt deserve a Federal Inverstigation....

Why in the Obama Government they said that will take more 8-10 years until it was complete mature to deliver the planes?

>>32426300
It's hilarious that the immediate deflection about the proven swarm of fake news from Macedonian teens exploiting Trump voter gullibility was "NO YOU'RE FAKE NEWS!"

>>32426319
>I don't know how it works but I'm going to keep talking

>>32426300
>listening to things trump says at rallies or on twitter is a liberal media conspiracy

>>32423875
That doesn't mean you'll lose any of those things. Nor does it mean that you won't need them.

>>32424911
Well, I was talking blueprint wise, since the 21 is the great "what if?" while the D is what we got in the end.

Then you start tinkering with the blueprints

>>32426087
>Looks horrifically new money.
He is. If you ever watch "Born Rich" Ivanka's in it and she talks about how she can move in circles he can't. She was born into high society, she's one of them. Trump's always been on the outside looking in and it bothers him like none other.

That's why he's so tacky and garish - it's like write trash who hit the lotto and decide they'll drink champagne at every meal, put gold on everything, and trick out their Benz with truck nuts.

>>32421844
"We're gonna do the same shit we've been doing but stop swindling the taxpayer."

>>32426879
How, exactly, is LM "swindling" us? They can't deviate from the price reduction plan and charge more than the contracts. They HAVE TO EAT THE LOSS if it costs more to build a batch than the contract price, and they've delivered under target in LRIP 5-8.

>>32422607
>tfw no Jim Webb presidency

He would have restored sanity to American foreign policy, unlike Trump who's stacking it with neocon establishment types and people with completely unrelated areas of expertise.

>>32427160
>neocon

Pretty sure the neocons are losing their shit at some of his appointments, like Rex Tillerson.

>>32423887
THERE ARE OVER 100 AIRCRAFT DELIVERED YOU IGNORANT RETARD

GO BACK TO YOUR NAZI HUGBOX

>>32427173
Flynn and Bolton have his ear on ME policy for one. And Tillerson is an example of the latter.

>>32427173
Or neo-nazi Steve Bannon.

>>32427180
This, why on earth does /pol/ keep coming here?

>>32421619
Anon, as of November 8th the F35 has only had one class a mishap. No idea if it's still at one, but that's rather impressive.

>>32427276
There are technically three now. Two ground fires, one low in air. None were total losses, no pilot injuries. It's definitely breaking safety records by a huge margin.

>>32427192
Has Bolton actually been given a position though?

For all of Trump's talk against the Iraq War, I'm curious what value an unapologetic advocate of the Iraq War has.

>>32427434
Deputy SoS

>>32427587
"""draining the swamp"""

>>32427340
>>32427276
There should be (AFAIK) 2 or 3 Class As by now:

1. Was the 2014 engine fire on a USAF jet that destroyed half an F-35. It happened as the jet was accelerating / throttling up down a runway.

2. Was a USMC jet that had a wire-bracket come loose in flight, chaff a wire's insulation and cause an electrical fire in the weapons bay.

3. Was a USAF jet that caught fire while starting its engine. It's believed that 70 knot tailwinds caused the fire / that it was just a hotstart, but the investigation is ongoing. It's yet not confirmed whether or not it was a Class A mishap.

>>32421138
That Washington. Six foot-twenty, fuckin killin' for fun.

He made love like an eagle falling out of the sky.

He killed his sensei in a duel and he never said why.

>>32426414
Trump never said at all, ever, that the wall wasn't going to happen
What he said was that in certain areas they would have a fence because literally noone goes there

Places like the NYT, or Wash Post, or any liberal site, are all fucking fake news spewing dumbasses who should be ignored

>>32427908
?
The swamp is rinos, democrats, and neo-cons
Also those hordes of scum that congregate around DC

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>>32424827
>>32424911
mach 3 cruise speed and capable of launching micro-sats

>>32430534
super sonic flight is a useless meme

It's only purpose is "looking cool" in flybys and making loud noises

>>32430553
God why are you so stupid.

>>32427587
I haven't heard of him appointing a deputy for state yet.

>>32430553
>>>/trash/

>>32430606
>>32430559
>muh airshow sonic booms

>>32430626
If supersonic flight is useless, then why has it been on every fighter aircraft since the 1950s, genius? Riddle me that.

>>32430682

Supersonic flight has very little utility in actual combat, but it still can be very important in specific situations. If you're trying to intercept another aircraft, going supersonic can help close the distance quickly. And of course, the inverse is also true. If you're in a situation where you're out of missiles and need to get away, supersonic flight helps you leave the combat area in a hurry.

And it can also have nice secondary benefits for CAS. The Taliban had the response times for various aircraft charted out so they knew how long they had to engage before they needed to go into hiding. The Strike Eagle was noted for its ability to get in fast and start squishing targets before they had time to get away. Not really the intended use, but useful regardless.

>>32430498
Right, he backed down from his 40-foot impenetrable wall once he finally understood how fucking insane it was.

>>32430523
>No one can oppose der fuhrer!

>>32430626
Speed has always been one of the most valuable traits a fighter can have, why would you go out of your way to make a fighter that is slower?

>>32430831
>Implying the F-35 isn't at the perfect balance point of speed

>>32430498
He went around for a year campaigning that he would build a wall along the entire border. He realized that it was totally unfeasible and scaled it back rather drastically, he's likely to do this with other promises too.

>>32430860
Meant to reply to the guy who thought that super sonic aircraft were pointless.

>>32430870
He's never said it would be along the entire border. I think even in one of the debates he said it didn't have to cover the entire border.

>>32430534
Wyvern when?

>>32430892
He went around campaigning that he would have a wall along the mexico border built, this was before the debates when he took a slightly softer approach.

>>32430922
I was talking about one of the Republican debates, but okay.

>>32430913
soon...

>>32430892
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbfP5vS0SM
Yes, he did.

>>32430870
>He realized that it was totally unfeasible and scaled it back rather drastically
When, exactly? You don't need stone chinkwalls all along the more treacherous approaches, so a metal fence would do.

Will nevertrumpers be rounded up along with the leftists on the day of the we-ran-outta-rope?

>>32431312
wrong 1000miles not the whole border which is 1900 laughable try though

>>32426334
lol go back to watching MSNBC

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>>32431399
And here we see the Trump voter ignoring how his candidate is dropping his promises left and right and making the sickening, anti-American statement that anyone who disagrees with him should die.

>>32431575
>>32431581
>Desperate damage control ensues

>>32431312
>>32431575
>>32431586
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLBX-7VDPU8
Yes, 1000.

>>32431619
>>Goes from "we're gonna build a wall" to not knowing how long the border actually is to "fuck, that's a lot more complicated than I thought it was, maybe we won't do it."

Let me stop sucking cock so I can defend big daddy don's stupidity on the internet. UHH UHHH it's so hard to type with my black daddy's cock so deep in my ass. Trump is a smart guys this is all part of the plan. MAGA!!! slurp slurp UHHH UHHH!!!

>>32425139
Nobody who'd studied economics would identify as an economic-nationalist. Even at university level it's usually just neoliberal shilling.