Tanks of the Future

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>>32416104
>its a lindybiege reads 2 or 3 books and watches some history channel shows on something and fancies himself an expert episode

>>32416104
Stop fucking shilling lindybeiges videos

Not even Ian get this much attention from /k/

>>32416104
lindy beige has never heard of depleted uranium

>IR is not the future, you cant use it passively
>Night vision is too big and bulky to use on tanks
>Thermal imagers would be blinded by the heat of the tank
Lindy knows absolutely nothing, I'm not watching any further.

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>>32416104

Well since most of /k/ thinks he's wrong about everything, that's pretty much proof of him being correct.

>Is Lindybeige correct

no.

its lloyd. The man is never correct. I dont even need to watch whatever video of a "a point about" something he's never done, never studied, or the likes, to know fine well the man is going to say another crock of shit, with the utter conviction of a talented speaker with a large dose of dunning-kreuger effect masking the fact he knows fuck all about anything.


Its a simple equation:

Does the video involve lindybeige talking?

Yes? then what's said is probably wrong.
no? Then thank god, its not lindybeige talking.

>>32416263
>The man is never correct
Wrong. He has some videos that even Matt Easton consideres correct.

>>32416263

You're honestly just making an argument for Lindybeige being correct.

>>32416273
Even a stopped watch is right twice a day.

if "never", then so fucking rarely its wise to assume that everything he says is wildly inaccurate.

the default condition for watching one of his videos should be to assume that the contents are in fact utter bullshit.

>>32416301
and that's why /k/ is my go-to board to laugh at people whenever I want some amusement.

because when it comes to historical stuff, no-one has the remotest clue what they're talking about, and its funny to see the crap said. It doesnt surprise me in the slightest that you're defending a fucking idiot like Lloyd.

reminder that Lindybeige claims:

>no one used swords, axes
>no one used horses
>no one used throwing knives
>no one used double strap arm shields
>no one used scythes
>no one used mail coifs
>no one used torches
>Pikemen didn't fight each other
>no one spoke French during the French revolution
>no one spoke Latin during the Roman Republic
>battle of Zama didn't happen
>Romans carried one pilum
>Vikings weren't real
>berserkers weren't real
>climate change isn't real
>stagnant social mobility isn't real
>castles were defended by three soldiers
>butted mail is better than riveted mail
>operation market garden was a success
>Napoleon was literally Hitler
>The Churchill was the best tank in WWII

Stop shilling his fucking videos you cretin

>>32416338

>It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that you're defending a fucking idiot like Lloyd.
I didn't defend him at all.
However, you did by saying that he's wrong.

>>32416373
>Anon is defending Lindy by saying he is wrong
Explain.

lindy beige doesn't understand that tanks can carry multiple types of ammunition

(he is right about man made climate change though)

>>32416397

>/k/ is wrong about pretty much everything
>anon claims Lindy is wrong
>therefore a strong argument is made for him being right

>>32416437
Oh I see. Because /K/ is wrong we have to claim lindy is right to make lindy wrong.

But problem is that >>32416263 Did not say /k/ is wrong thus you cannot say he is making lindy being right.

>>32416469
wrong

>>32416483
Nope

>>32416497
yes

>>32416508
No

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>this triggers the britbong

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>>32416349
>Climate change is real

>>32416137
>>32416185
He only has a PhD. I'm sure you are a more reliable source of information.

>>32416104
top posting lindy you fucks

>>32416349
bad bait

If you watch literally any of the videos you're referencing, he doesn't say any of these things.

>>32416822
>He only has a PhD
In what?

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>>32416822
>having a PhD means you can't be wrong

>>32416882

Hey, Lindy. Could you put down the bottle? You're lookin rough, man.

>Lindy posting to rile /k/'s autism

It works but you should still feel ashamed.

>>32416882
Not this guy
but actually he said they "propably weren't used", they used primarily spears back in the day since swords were very expensive and hard to make, which I don't see the flaw in pointing out lol

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>need to a put a hole to see out of the tank
>deserts effecting thermal sights

couldn't watch any further

Does lindy need money suddenly? All these recent sponsorships and vids on shit which he has a shallow understanding of, wtf is happening to him...

I don't think I'd agree with where he's going on sights. Infrared is just starting to really catch on people are not going to abandon it. If anything I would think some electric loitering drones with IR lamps doing recon and such would start to be more common with other annoying features like being able to flood a different light that washes out IR picture toward things using it making it useful for one side and not the other rather than just a flat out switch to thermal. Thermal vision stuff is expensive and it takes time to improve technology.
He seriously just skipped over lasers? Decades of research is just starting to manifest into usable stuff, typical chemical propellant projectiles are already hitting a point where they can't be improved anymore. There is no way there isn't going to be a switch like copper to brass, or brass to iron, iron to steel. It doesn't seem economically practical but once someone does start fielding it, it doesn't matter how practical it is to do it if it is effective enough that people basically have to adopt it to stay competitive.
Interesting video I just think things will get to be a lot more science-fiction-ish

>>32416674
The climate has never been static, if you put lead in water, you get poisoned water, you put poison in the air, you get poison air. Humans put tons of pollution out there for a very long time. Even if you had say enough water to neutralize an acid for example, you keep pouring more acid into a barrel of water until ther eis more acid than water, do you think it's going to neutralize the acid or the water?

>>32416822
>has a PhD

In what?

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Sights, replace the main gunnery optics with camera and fiber optics. No more armor hole. Keep the backup fixed sight.
Still keep the telescope, parascope, visonblock for no power operation and back up but reduce to 4 for the commander and one for the driver while leaving the gunner with only his gunnery sight.

He is correct about IR being more or less useless.

Image intensifiers (night vision) are good but they work better when combined with thermal.

He is 100% wrong about thermal being blinded by radiant heat from the vehicle and needing the whole sight to be cooled.
He is also wrong about it being bulky.
I used a military thermal vision sight that was hand held and sensitive enough that I could tell people apart by looking at their faces.

The future of guns are electrochemical thermal. Propellant is zapped and you get a higher energy output per unit of mass of propellant. This allows more rounds at the same power or more power with the same rounds.

Rainguns are meme tier. For a tank you would need more volume for capacitors than you could armor and move at a combat useful speed. (and that massive tank would only have slightly better firepower).

I like how he says tungsten, then goes off on diamonds but said to give the diamond round a lead core... when he just finished talking about tungsten.

>>32416822
>He only has a PhD.
No, he has a BA in Archaeology and teaches dancing for a living. His real talent is being so confident that he is correct that he fools everyone else into thinking he knows his shit.

>>32416104
>Is Lindybeige correct /k/?

I'm guessing no.

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>>32416104
>you cant use infrared passively
>you have to illuminate the landscape using IR lamps

> His real talent is being so confident that he is correct that he fools everyone else into thinking he knows his shit.

This just comes up too often in my life from others.

>>32417696
Thermal using blackbody radiation works and is IR.

IR like most digital cameras need an illumination source to see anything with any level of detail.

The difference is that the IR camera is more or less just a normal camera. The thermal unit cools the sensing element and needs a compressor for refrigeration.

>>32417773
IR cameras don't need to have active cooling, theyw can work without like pic related. Though active cooling allows for higher resolution, which is why they're used on vehicles and other contexts where size and power supply are not an issue. Obviously they don't just use a $50 IR sensor from a digital camera; that image sensor needs illumination because it has shit for cooling, resolution, and design, not because it is fundamentally different in principle.

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>>32417879
would be nice to post a pic, fuck

>>32417576
>Image intensifiers (night vision)
Isnt that IR but passive instead of active?

>>32416104
>Is Lindybeige correct

No.

>>32416408
He said something about choosing the right ammo type in the video so I'd assume that he does

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>>32416104
>Get less than a minute into the video
>"The day of the tank is numbered, there may not even be tanks in the [not so distant] future"
God damn, even his "spandau" bullshit was less retarded

Why do we hate this guys again? All i remember is that he said katanas were shit and everyone went mental.

>>32417977
Passive yes, but night vision is not limited to infrared wavelengths. Though I believe modern ones do get the greatest amplification with near-IR wavelengths, but still do visible light pretty damn well.

>>32418069
Watch the fucking video and find out.

I would like any of you to point out a single thing a tank can do that an modern APC can't do, other than costing ten times more.

>>32418127
Take a hit from something bigger than an autocannon or RPG and stay functional.

>>32416822
>he has a PhD
In tanks? Where can I get a PhD in tanks?

>>32417879
>IR cameras don't need to have active cooling, theyw can work without like pic related. Though active cooling allows for higher resolution, which is why they're used on vehicles and other contexts where size and power supply are not an issue. Obviously they don't just use a $50 IR sensor from a digital camera; that image sensor needs illumination because it has shit for cooling, resolution, and design, not because it is fundamentally different in principle.

The IR system is picking up reflected IR light from a source.
The thermal system is picking up the blackbody radiation that all objects emit that are above absolute zero.

The IR system can't see the thermal blackbody radiation because it's looking at the wrong size waves. The thermal system can't see the IR system's illumination because it's looking at the wrong size waves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM0pt3wObJc

>not because it is fundamentally different in principle.
Well partly true.

>>32417977
Depending on the exact system it can be using IR but it's also grabbing a lot of the very faint reflected light.

That's why they once were called starlight goggles.

Night vision works best when weak light sources like a cloudless sky or a night with a moon, or for picking up very faint light sources. For example a mod tent with a light inside might look black to the human eye that is adjusted for night vision, but with night vision you can see all the stitching holes and tiny rips and holes.

>>32416104
>Lindy "tripod mounted MGs are more powerful than shoulder fired ones because a lot of energy is lost in the recoil" beige
Yeah, no.
He is completly incapable to differentiate between personal conjecture and fact.

>>32418163
All APC's have some form of reactive armor against such things.

That being said, being able to only take hits from out dated weapons should not be a proud trait to have.

>>32418127
>I would like any of you to point out a single thing a tank can do that an modern APC can't do, other than costing ten times more.
Shoot through a mud hut in Afghanistan with it's main gun.

Take an monster IED hit without killing all the passengers.

Attack and destroy 20+ heavy armored targets without needing to reload from external stores.

Mount mine plows or mine rollers.

>>32416104
>Riding horses was a stupid idea
He's a fucking stupid cunt

>>32416960
"Dark ages" (which is a fucking meme repeated by ignorant history teachers) maybe to get a good sword, by 1400 a longbow man in an English host could afford to buy like 2-3 swords on a weeks wages

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>>32416822
Its a BA, in archaeology.

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He used to be a professor at Newcastle University until they sacked him for pissing off vegeterians.

>>32418207
>The IR system is picking up reflected IR light from a source.
>The thermal system is picking up the blackbody radiation that all objects emit that are above absolute zero.
These aren't mutually exclusive is my point. IR cameras work specifically in the IR range of wavelengths. Thermal imagers in principle pick up thermal radiation (emitted or reflected, doesn't matter to the sensor; all it can "see" are photons hitting its surface) in a particular wavelength range. Technically visible light is thermal radiation, so technically normal photo cameras are thermal imagers. Anyway, humans radiate in the infrared range, so the two overlap. The difference is only what wavelength range the sensor is built for, and of course the method used to detect that range.

I think we are just using different definitions, i.e. the commercial and engineering definitions of thermal and IR cameras vs the scientific definition.

>>32418455
It was a volunteer research position, he was not actually employed.

>>32418455
Finally something he's not wrong about!

>>32418570
Without a light source an IR camera wouldn't see anything. It doesn't see the blackbody radiation.
However outside their is enough radiation for the IR system to work, although how well is a matter of the conditions and equipment.

A thermal camera will work anywhere without a lighting source. An IR light source will not in any meaningful way make a pure thermal system work any better.

Humans do not radiate at a wavelength that IR cameras can see without illumination.

They are exactly mutually exclusive.

>>32418891
Humans emit thermal radiation with a wavelength in the mid infrared range (~12 microns). Any infrared camera (which is a thermal camera limited to the infrared range) that can detect these wavelengths will see it.

You seem to be making some bizarre distinction between blackbody radiation and infrared light. They are just EM waves (or photons, if you prefer) at a particular wavelength. All IR cameras by definition are thermal cameras, but not all thermal cameras are IR cameras. Visible light is thermal radiation, not some special class of photons that behaves differently.

>Humans do not radiate at a wavelength that IR cameras can see without illumination.
If you're talking about a basic handheld video camera with "night mode", then sure. That doesn't mean all IR cameras have this limitation.

Again, I think this argument is coming from a difference in semantics.

>>32416349
He says literally none of these things, I think Lindy is actually credible when it come to ancient history.

Still, Lindy is kind of a schmuck, really the best word I got. The fact that you would have to make stuff up when making Lloyd look stupid is the easiest thing you could do just makes you look like a lazy prick.

>>32416524
No.

he knows a lot about a handful of topics, mostly ancient warfare, but as soon as he starts talking about other shit, he makes huge mistakes, while still talking in the confident and arrogant way that makes him sound like he knows his shit.

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>>32416822
PhD in tanks

>>32416104

Tanks are like battleships. They are already an outdated technology.

A multi million dollar tank can be taken out by a street kid with a cheap rocket launcher.

Most of the military today is focused on "enemies" that can't really fight bank -AND- is purely profit driven. Not really meant to be the best they can be, but just to profit manufacturers, lobbyists, and their sponsored politicians.

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>>32416882

>>32416822
So have I but in medicine.
That does not make me tank expert.

>>32418976
IR cameras do not work without an IR light source they can not see thermal blackbody radiation. If you put an IR camera into a total dark room they will show nothing. While a thermal camera will see everything.

To see thermal blackbody radiation you need to cool your sensing element.

IR cameras are not thermal cameras and can not see the same things.

This isn't semantics this is you being 100% wrong. It's like saying your eyes can see x-rays and radio waves because it's all just EM radiation.

>>32419289
>A multi million dollar tank can be taken out by a street kid with a cheap rocket launcher.

Extremely unlikely. Your bog standard RPG-7 would need the hand of god to guide it to destroy a tank.

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>>32416104

Behead those who insult MG42

>>32419376
Ok, so what do you define an IR camera to be? What wavelength range does an IR camera detect?

>>32419376
Do you have any sources to back that up?

There's no reason for an IR camera to not see blackbody radiation if it's the IR band. I'm pretty sure you're the one that's wrong here.

>>32419376
>It's like saying your eyes can see x-rays and radio waves because it's all just EM radiation.
Eyes can only see wavelengths in the visible range. A camera that does the same thing would be called a visible light camera. When you have something called an "infrared camera", you would expect it to detect wavelengths in the infrared range. Coincidentally, this is the range in which most objects at room temperature emit black body radiation.

>IR cameras do not work without an IR light source they can not see thermal blackbody radiation
Thermal blackbody radiation at room temperature is in the fucking infrared range you retard. Any IR camera that is sensitive enough to pick up these wavelengths will be able to see it, jesus christ.

You have a severely misinformed understanding of what blackbody radiation is.

>>32416104
I don't know, I never really wondered how to pronounce audible.

>watching lindy

>>32419521
You should read about the battle of golon heights. Provides the explination why using narrow band near infrared illminators is a bad idea.

>>32419289
>A multi million dollar tank can be taken out by a street kid with a cheap rocket launcher.

Not if properly utilized.

What are tatics for 200, alex.

>>32419521
>>32418976
>>32419468
You guys are something special. "IR cameras" do not see the entire IR spectrum, it's naming convention. "FLIR cameras" see thermal radiation. Anon is talking about the names of devices that people actually use, not the defined IR spectrum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_looking_infrared
>Long-wave infrared (LWIR) cameras, sometimes called "far infrared", operate at 8 to 12 μm
>Medium-wave (MWIR) cameras operate in the 3-to-5 μm range.
>thermal imaging cameras detect differs significantly from that of night vision, which operates in the visible light and near-infrared ranges (0.4 to 1.0 μm)

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>>32416146
>Not even Ian get this much attention from /k/
I disagree

>>32419387
>RPG-7
Ancient technology. While he refers to "street kids" and thus implies the kind of ass-backwards resistance forces Western nations face now, if it came down to a fight on say Russian soil there could be civilian resistance with much more modern surplus rocket launchers, and of course the actual army would be using the cutting edge. They really like their damned man portable rocket launchers, Ivan has so many to choose from.

>>32418127

If Ukraine's experience shows anything, is that APC/IFV are the ones being fucked by artillery and the only thing standing are tanks.

>>32416104
yes, he is

>>32424120
>Anon is talking about the names of devices that people actually use, not the defined IR spectrum.
Wow, it's almost as if I said that right at the start of the fucking argument. Either way, retard anon claimed that "thermal cameras" are somehow different from "IR cameras", and that one cannot see the other. An infrared camera is a thermal camera, and so long as its detection range is within the spectrum of blackbody radiation of an object, it will detect it. There was literally nothing to argue about.

>>32424324
>They really like their damned man portable rocket launchers
Because they're cheap and tend to fuck tanks up pretty good. No sense sending a $9M tank when a dude with an $800 RPG29 will do.

>>32419387
> Your bog standard RPG-7 would need the hand of god to guide it to destroy a tank.
Or it can just hit it's side.

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>>32419040
>says litterally none of these things
>thinks Churchill is best tank of ww2
>literally says this in the video of op
Do you even think before you type?

why is there at least 3 threads about every single fucking lindybeige video that comes out?

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Lindeybeige, a guy who has spent most of his life reading up on warfare and reenacts as a hobby
vs
/k/, a group of fat americans with too many guns
no wonder /k/ gets so mad about him all the time

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>>32429023
Books like Death Traps prove that reading or writing doesn't mean shit.
>reenacting
lol

>>32428385
The only way an RPG7 will do anything is if it fucks up the tracks, or destroys the instrumentation.

>>32429023
t.lindybeige

>>32429023
lindy, a guy who spent most of his time playing a ww1 dungeons and dragons game and makes a living as a ballroom dance instructor and uses all the money he doesn't spend on a wife or any hobbies besides being a condescending twat about shit he doesn't understand to go to old cities and criticize tour guides info and explanation plaques

t. guy with the misfortune of knowing him for some months

>>32429303
how do you know him mate?

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>>32429270
>"there are existing modern tanks with over 500mm RHA equivalent on the hull side"
Sure, and I drop by your house every night to fuck your grandma.

>>32419299
>according to monty

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Some of you are alright, don't come to /k/ tomorrow

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>>32416104
>talking about Night vision and thermal like its new technology
>liquid gunpowder
this guy's a fucking idiot

>>32429383
>let's trust Russian penetration figures whose test procedures are completely unknown and IRL penetration virtually guaranteed to be much less
>let's ignore the fact that modern MBT's were getting hit by PG-7xx grenades in Iraq and the crew within remained unharmed

>>32416104
>Is Lindybeige correct /k/?
no. next

Lindy has read some WW2 memoirs, but with regards to modern and potential future tanks, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>32429023
>a reenactor, armchair tabletop gamer, and britaboo
>vs people who actually have guns and are in the military
gee I wonder which would have more experience or knowledge about weapons and armor.

Some of the anons here have actually served in tanks, so in my books that puts them miles ahead of some brit with a foam sword and some crossfire miniatures in terms of knowing what they're talking about

>>32429270
maybe you should take the time to learn what an RPG-7 is. its not a regular RPG from the 50s.

A tandem HEAT charge from an RPG would shrek most tanks on the modern battlefield.

>>32418310
>I only read headlines

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>>32419521
>When you have something called an "infrared camera", you would expect it to detect wavelengths in the infrared range. Coincidentally, this is the range in which most objects at room temperature emit black body radiation.
Nope. There is IR and there is IR. "Thermal cameras" or "FLIR" need to been sensitive to at lest 3 µm in the lower portion of their sensitivity band to be able to see black-body radiation of objects at room temperature.

1 µm sensitive equipment (most CCD cameras, including consumer cameras, with no IR filter or even with filter present they still can caught some IR light, image intensifier tubes of night vision devices) could only detect heat of bodies with 500K + temperature. This is IR too. Humans can't see in the region with naked eye.

>>32432362
>>let's ignore the fact
>fact
Fake news.

I really like his katana video.

>>32418127
>Be every soldier inna 20th/21st century
>Be inna war
>Adamantly advocate for awesomeness of tanks
>Somehow psuedo-armchair generals and historians still claim day of tank is past

Dude, at this point I firmly believe those who claim this shit are either insane, or feel sexually threatened by the manly awesomeness and chivalry a fucking 20 ton behemoth inspires into better men. Seriously. Not one fucking war where tanks were extensively used has shown anything but their extreme usefulness. Oh whats that? Tanks are ineffective in urban war? Chechnya, Syria, and Iraq called, its time for you to go back to the nuthouse. Oh tanks are vulnerable? Desert storm and ukraine called, your fucking insane. Where the fuck do people come up with this shit?

>>32434080
This. Videos of tanks in the sandbox taking dozens or hundred of direct hits from the best AT weapons and chugging along just makes it funnier to laugh at these larpers.

>>32424324
>civilian resistance with much more modern surplus rocket launchers

You do realize Russia is a nofuns country, right?

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>>32419424

>>32434237
Russian and most E. European gun laws are a bit unusual. They isn't a total ban though. There is a prohibition on the private ownership of handguns. Long guns like hunting rifles and shotguns need a license and are kept on file. Semiautomatics are prohibited.

What should be noted is that outside of the inner cities and metropolitan areas, these laws are little if at all enforced. It's basically carte blanche for the government to turn it up to 11 and call in spetsnaz to btr your front gate if they suspect you of terrorist or mob activities. There are lots of videos on the internet from shenanigans at private gun ranges of people using assault rifles and other shit.

A few months ago there was an incident at a Russian gun range, some private gun range owner got pissed at the military base in the area for opening a range and stealing all his customers, so he /k/'d out and tried to shoot the place up before getting slotted by some cop or soldier at the range. As Russians are want to do with bodies and gear in the wake of an incident, they had it all neatly laid out for the cameras. Dude had an ak-74, hand grenades, drum mags, makarovs, bulletproof vest and helmet, and a bunch of other shit.

Tl;dr - It's very easy to get funs in Russia and no one cares unless you get weird calls from a guy named Alwaleed in Saudi or frequent jihadi sites.

>>32434161
>20 ton behemoth
What a small tank.

>>32416104
It's like every time I see a video of his he gets more retarded

>>32416822
holy shit you drink too much cool-aid

I like his archaeology videos.

>>32418061
"Perhaps".

Whats it like having such a low IQ? Must be nice sometimes.

>>32434237
In the event of a very bad homeland invasion they would almost certainly release some older weapon stocks to civilians to bolster their defenses. Same thing would happen to most any other country that actually has to do a Stalingrad 2.0 without nukes for whatever reason.

>>32434097
>There is IR and there is IR
And it's all IR. Any camera that can detect wavelengths within this range is by definition an IR camera, whether marketed as such or not.

Did I not say
>Any infrared camera that can detect these wavelengths will see it
I did.

Did I not say
>I think we are just using different definitions, i.e. the commercial and engineering definitions of thermal and IR cameras vs the scientific definition.
I did.

So what are we arguing about?

>>32434087
Maybe you should pay attention to what was posted
>your bog standard RPG-7
which, it's safe to assume, is not going to be using a PG-7VR rocket. Look at most photos of durkas with RPGs. They aren't using tandem charges m8.

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Off topic, but what mm should a modern canon be to penetrate modern tanks/near future tanks

>>32437636
>1mm x1000mm hollow osmium rod

>>32436427
eh RPGs a shit.

TOW-2s are where its at