>performs exactly as described, multiple petals separate from

>>32415575
>stupid gimmick
>will look bad at trial
>sends jagged shrapnel everywhere if you miss
>defeated by a thick jacket

There are plenty of reasons to hate it.

>>32415613
Defeated by a thick jacket is biggest issue. Not everyone breaks into your house naked.

>>32415575
its cost probably because what is it, almost $1 per shot?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psGFPRpWZ3w

Watch the entire video before you post.

>>32415575
>petals
>not trocars
Pleb

Wrong. What you have is small petals with little to no energy that only penetrate 4-5 inches, not enough to hit anything vital, and a ~50gr slug that will also do little to no damage compared to more traditional rounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_27b9P0dfuI

If you want an actually effective round self-defense, buy a load that uses Lehigh Defense Xtreme Defender bullet.

Don't joke around or willfully shill this stuff. This is a matter of life and death.

>>32415734
This might be gimmicky, but 4-5 inches is plenty enough to kill. That may be the most retarded thing I've ever read. I really need you to think about that. Go get a ruler and measure 4-5 inches next to your chest. All it has to do is get some lung, heart, aorta, carotid, vena cava, subclavean, etc. If you think an ambulance is going to save you, you've been watching too much TV.

>>32415613
>will look bad at trial
lmao, fucking pussy

>>32415575
>cant reliably penetrate 12 inches
Into the trash it goes

>>32416081
4-5 inches through gel isn't the same as 4-5 inches through an actual human body. No you wouldn't want to get shot with these or any other round for that matter but in a life or death situation why risk it at all when there are already rounds out there that cost much less and are more likely to penetrate into something vital.

>>32416153
Even if you are attacked by a 300 lb man 5 inches of penetration is lethal

>>32416107
its not manly to go to prison because the prosecutor is arguing you had bought "super deadly ammo intended to cause maximum damage and blah blah blah" and a soccer mom jury throws you away for 20 years

>>32416872
that's just not true and numerous shootouts with the fbi have shown that's not the case. they have their standards for a reason

>>32416872

Did you not read his first sentence? Ballistic Gelatin is not the same as a human body, it is designed to mimic human muscle tissue but it is not a total copy.

Try and poke your finger through the gel, see how easy it is. Then try to jam your finger through your skin and see how resilient it is in comparison.

These tiny little sub-.22lr sized rounds (once they break up) have to pass through the layers of skin, muscle tissue, and bone to try and hit something vital. By the time it reaches them it has dumped so much energy and become so small it's not going to have any lasting effect.

>>32416872
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

>>32416872
"Inches of penetration" listed is always BALLISTIC GELATIN. Which is a DIFFERENT DEPTH than the penetration achieved in a HUMAN BODY, and always exaggerated by a known factor.

Think of it this way: RIP rounds are like your dick. Sure, you may claim 5 inches in theory, but everybody knows you won't get more than an inch and a half penetration into a real human.

File: RIP ammo gel test.png (3MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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>>32416872

Look at the test in this video: >>32415643

Do you see the little spherical thing in the block? That's a .177 caliber BB fired from an air rifle. It's used to calibrate the ballistic gel.

Have you ever seen a .177 BB go 4 inches into someone? Because the deepest I've ever seen it go when shot from a normal air rifle is 1/8" deep.

The trocars are literally as effective as air gun BB's.

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>G2 RIP
Not this shit again.

>>32415575
It's shit but I don't hate it, creativity is good.

Not every invention has to be a scientific breakthrough.

>>32417255
Yep, this shit again.

>>32415575
Underpenetration is a much greater problem than overpenetration

>>32415575
I Refuse to shoot that shit out of my guns. have fun fucking up your barrels

I don't live in a two room apartment with thirty Mexicans, so I'm not particularly concerned about over-penetration. Especially from handguns. I have rifles I'd use without a second thought, too. If my bullets pass through a few walls afterward, well, spackle is cheap.

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>>32415575

>>32417181
kek

We need to settle this once and for all. Somebody buy a box, and go out and shoot a criminal with it. Or shoot a dead pig if that's easier for you.

>>32417181
Fucking rekt

Has anyone tried these on a mock up gel covered torso with ribs etc. I saw these on a martial arts program. These would be perfect for testing.

The expansion at 4-6 inches which is where your heart and lungs are is pretty impressive.

Oh wait, I forgot, most of you mother fuckers have an additional 10-12 inches of fucking fat to get through first before the bullet would find a vital organ. That's why you value the deep penetrating rounds I guess. Plus a 50% chance that the round will also be passing through a big mac/large coke before it hits your clammy moods means that a 16 inch penetrating round is really what it takes to reach that bloated overworked bag of cholesterol you call a heart.

>>32417381
Cool your jets, Starsky. Nobody is forcing you to buy meme ammo.

>>32417816
See: >>32417238

>>32417816
I grew my body armor so I could have it anywhere.

>>32415619
>>32415613
Wait.. they sell handgun ammunition that can't penetrate a thick jacket? For real?

>>32416148
That's what she said

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>>32416081
NO.

>>32415575
>Implying I don't want to shoot through my wold be robber, my house, my neighbors house, my neighbor, his dog and the school down the street.

>>32416908
Shooting someone with a perfectly powered bullet that expands and stops right before exiting does not imply death or incapacitation of that person. Missing the vital organs is missing the vital organs, sometimes you get unlucky in life.
Bullet power however from a 9mm bore bullet will not be on its way to a mans heart and run out of energy before getting there. Fat is soft anyways. If anything the weaker more expanding bullet will have a greater chance of lacerating something important.

>>32415634
That's how much normal defensive ammo costs, IIRC the HTX or whatever, I bought last year cost me 1.04 per boolet.

>Highlight the indoor seating areas
Jesus, they're getting krafty.

>>32420912
>FUDDLORE
>vs FBI trials

hmmmmmm

>>32418658
Pretty much. It carries no mass with it, and the joints for the "shrapnel" bits is weak as fuck, so it should shatter on contact with anything.

>>32418658
No, they'll all go through. The problem is that some hollow points will get clogged by thick clothing and won't expand properly or at all, and act like an fmj.

>spiky assault bullets that break apart into incendiary explosive fragments in your body
this is the kind of shit I always talk about, why does anyone who isn't the military need something like this?

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>>32421301

>>32415575

>tfw just use standard Federal/Tula or whatever cheap hollowpoint is available

I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I'm pretty sure a standard FMJ bullet is enough to cause some nasty pain to a home invader.

>>32415575
because if you ever use it the jury will see the cringe marketing and think you are a fucking psycho and throw you in prison.

>>32416872
>5 inches of penetration is lethal.
Huh, I call that foreplay.

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>>32415575
because it's by and for total pooftahs?

>>32420933
>boolet
Christ cunt, you better be fucking joking.

>>32415575
It's not as effective as an actual JHP defensive round. It doesn't penetrated deep enough.

>>32418658
Nobody ever thought Jean jackets would be an issue

As I recall, other copper hollow points perform the same without the edgelord look and for half the price

>>32423268
Jack daniels kills indians netter anyways

>>32417181
ruined

>>32417238
Thanks anon for the info

>>32419568
who would photoshop a cat onto a stack of perfectly good блин

>>32417816
not an argument.

>>32423296
>rekt

>will look bad at trial

This. In the legal point of view it will fuck you bad, just the name of the bullet already fucking you...

Just take a look into FN Five-Seven after that sandnigger shot some soldiers.

>>32415575
This is just one /k/unt's observation, but they seem like they would have low weight for the amount of volume they take up. Less weight means it must go faster to deliver devastating energy OR it just plain delivers less ft-lbs.

Something like the Glasser would make more sense to me if you REALLY were worried about overpen, Hell even those spacecase Monad rounds would be better.

>>32423149
What sort of yuro/colonial are you?

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>>32416153
>4-5 inches through gel isn't the same as 4-5 inches through an actual human body.

>>32416893

Name one incident where this has happened.

>>32423279
They actually usually perform better, because they retain their mass and actually penetrate far enough to hit vitals.

>>32415575

Ballistics gelatin is NOT a 1 to 1 analogy to human flesh. That ISNT WHAT IT IS FOR. It is an experimental medium for testing projectiles. It is a substance that can be made and remade at the exact same concentrations so you can repeat an experiment over and over and have reliable, reproducible results. The 4-5 inches or what have you the petals penetrate in gel does not mean they would go 4-5 inches into a human. The people who make RIP rounds know this, but they can make a really pretty picture that LOOKS like those petals are super lethal and awesome and sell that picture to misinformed buyers who don't understand that ballistics gel is not an analogy to a real human.

>>32426199

For reference look up people shooting ballistics gel with airsoft bbs. They do not penetrate human flesh at all, but they will go in an inch or so into gel.

>>32422793
Just buy Federal HST from SGammo for $.50cpr and call it good. It's one of the best HP rounds on the market and it's affordable.

>>32421301
the military is actually rather limited on the rounds they can legally use, this isnt Borderlands

>>32415575
>Petals do jack shit
>Barely meets pen standards with a wound channel worse than .22lr hv out of a pistol
>This fucking shit again

>>32417260
Yeah, but it's expensively worthless garbage in a market where "does it work" is king.

Imagine those upscaled for 12g

>>32418658
And costs twice what proven JHPs do.

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>>32419589
>Implying I don't want to shoot through my wold
>wold

>>32426134
It isn't, dumbass. We use ballistics gel because it's a scientifically consistent medium that gives repeatable results. And after exhaustive analysis, the FBI found the optimum to be a 12-18" penetration depth with as wide a permanent wound channel and/or fragmentation WITHIN THAT RANGE to have the greatest effects. That's what a bullet needs to retain enough energy through clothes, skin, fat, muscle, and bone and still have enough energy to hit something vital without overpenetrating.

>>32426199
And the blocks they used in the marketing material were very clearly undersized and low density.

>>32426142
There was a case where a guy went hiking and carried his 10mm with him, got back to his car, some dude was there with a dog (or 2, can't remember) and the dogs ran at the guy, he shot them, then the dude got pissed at the guy for shooting his dogs so he attacked, got shot and killed, and the prosecutor argued that the use of a 10mm pistol was indication that he was trying to murder someone, or some shit.

Caliber, not a specific bullet type, but still, prosecutors are fucks.

>>32427145
To be fair here, that's the prosecutor's job. But if you have solid justification, such as "well, this bullet is what the cops around here use to protect themselves" it's pretty easy to build doubt about it. The R.I.P. has no real place to stand there, because if you were actually stupid enough to buy and use it in a defensive scenario, you bought into the hype of the marketing and ignored the mountains of evidence against it.

>>32418658
FYI even a good .380 auto JHP can not reliably penetrate a heavy winter coat. It will still induce physical trauma from the impact (hematoma, broken bones, ruptured organs) and knock your ass down.

>>32427229
>To be fair here, that's the prosecutor's job

It is, but seriously, inferring intent from your caliber/bullet choice? Come on man. That's an attack on all gun owners and the 2nd amendment itself, IMO.

>The R.I.P. has no real place to stand there

It's just another option. Doesn't mean you can infer intent of a crime from its use.

>bought into the hype of the marketing

Also to be fair, if something is marketed as a super awesome defensive round, it should make sense that people would use it defensively.

The round itself sucking is an entirely different matter.

>>32427314
JHPs are generally marketed as the responsible choice, RIPs as "this will fuck them up horrifically."

>>32427361
Oh, I thought G2 marketed them as a defensive round.

Carry on then.

>>32417238
>It's like being shot by an 8-barrelled BB gun
Wow, that sounds like it would fucking hurt. These would make absolutely brutal less-lethal self defense rounds. Imagine getting magdumped from close range.

>>32415619

>Not everyone breaks into your house naked.

Promises, promises.

>>32418685
I like you

>>32427076
1 inch is 1 inch no matter the substance downie, unless we're talking about black holes and shiet.
And 5 inches in the flesh, you bet this is highly lethal. Try to stab yourself with a 5 inches blade, where you want in your body... That's a severe wound in any case.

>>32429683
Fucking genius, we can replace the armor on our Abrams with pillows now, think of the weight savings! Somebody get the army on the phone.

>>32415575
The pellet leaves no real deep damage. It creates a hell of a superficial wound that would hurt like hell and bleed all over, but the pellet, becomes far smaller than an HP or FMJ, and looses velocity making for rather shallow wounds.

>>32428388
That isn't what she said.

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>>32417816
>This much projection.

>>32429683
>downie
>As he says one of the most retarded things possible

>>32417816

>favouring rounds that are more effective at killing YOU

For what purpose?

>>32415575
>doesn't even come remotely close to meeting FBI minimum penetration
>expensive
>cringe marketing