/k/, Redpill me on Bullpups.

>>32393107
>pros: It's a gun
>cons: the clintons

>>32393111
No shit sherlock. I'm just curious about if the specific design has any benefits as opposed to a more standard one.

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I hear a lot that the Tavor is poop in comparison with the AUG. I haven't owned either and if I can in the future, I'd like to own an AUG.

Also they are less accurate than conventional magazine fed rifles because reasons. I think specifically its 'cause there's more parts to get the trigger to fire the weapon but I don't know desu.

>>32393136
Oh. Interesting. Will require more research. Thank you.

>>32393124
yeah, its shorter

>>32393149
Suppose that could go either way.

>>32393107
>Longer barrel in shorter gun
>rear CoG makes holding for long periods more comfortable
>usually shitty trigger, aftermarket Tavor gets to USGI M16 level trigger reportedly
>new manual of arms to learn
>shitty accuracy due to barrle mounting on many
Nothe that the accuracy problem isn't by concept but rather from application- there are precision bullpup rifles.

>>32393164
Thank you. Very interesting.
It just seems like such an odd design to me, I fail to see how it's practical outside of a range toy or CQC.

>>32393107
Aug is god-tier bullpup.

>>32393179
CQC and armored vehicles.
And maybe extended offhand shooting.

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>>32393181
Care to be more specific?
What makes it so good?

>Greentext bump because why not

>>32393185
It was the first successful bullpup which elevated it to meme status.
Practically speaking, it's the source for the shitty progressive trigger most bullpups have.

>>32393196
Mm, that would make sense.
Anything half decent seems to get elevated to Meme Tier now.

Why is the trigger so shit on Bullpups? Seems to be a reoccurring theme.

>>32393107
>LE REDPILL ME!!! XDDDD

killyourself

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>>32393207
What a thoughtful contribution.
>Killyourself
Gotta be 18 to use this board, friend.

>>32393201
Because by nature, the trugger is disconnected from the hammer group. So you need a way to transfer the force from the trigger to the sear. And the connectors are almost invariably shit.
In the tavor the heavy mushy trigger was intentional- IDF safety requirements wanted a trigger that wouldn't go off unless the user really meant it- later they realized that it's stupid, and the Micro tavor has a greatly improved trigger-which is however still shitty compared to aftermarket AR-15 triggers.

>>32393231
Now that's interesting. Thank you for explaining that. Is there anything out there comparable to the AUG or Tavor?

>>32393107
the biggest selling point for bullpubs is barrellength in comparison to overall length

that's why .223 bullpups make sense compared to 7.62x39 ones for example

>>32393262
Yea, that does seem to make a lot of sense.
I haven't thought much about what they'd be chambered in, though. You make a good point.

>>32393237
The FAMAS (another meme rifle) has a trigger equivalent to the AUG with some components shifted around.

>>32393273
Oh god, the Famas. I've literally only ever heard that that weapon was garbage in the form of a gun. Aren't the sights super shitty on it?

>>32393279
Actually the sights are pretty good. They're attached directly to the barrel, which is free-floated. Not bad at all. The problem is that it operates by delayed blowback, which is rather violent and tends to do unpleasant things to the cases.

>>32393288
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dmYUoG9S-y4
Ian did a vid on the semi version, here's a link.

>>32393288
Oh. Huh. Guess I was wrong.
>>32393293
Thank you. Will watch.

>>32393293
Alright, this is pretty badass. I've never seen his videos before, how haven't I heard of him?
Thank you for introducing me.

>>32393332
Ian is love, Ian is life.
Also check out C&Rsenal if you like REALLY detailed vids on WWI firearms.

>>32393335
Thank you! Will do that. Seems interesting and knowledgeable.

>>32393136
Not necessarily, AUGs can easily be MOA with ammunition it likes.

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>>32393107

>Pros:
You're taking a Rifle and turning it into an SMG without losing any of the effectiveness.

By being shorter reach its easier to acquire targets just like an SBR/smg.

If it was an smg now it can have a longer barrel to eke even more effectiveness out of the pistol cartridge.

By being more firmly shouldered due to balance its going to be easier to keep steady.

You can fire the gun one-handed, in an awkward Uzi kind of way. Just dont expect the second shot to hit what you're aiming at.

>Cons:
Sight radius is technically smaller like an smg or sbr, so this sorta balances the stability.

Unless you have a scope/reddot, and put it almost at the front of the gun, its going to be a little awkward to properly aim since its so close to your face.

Reloading is going to take a little longer. You will have to take your eyes off of the target to do so and you will have to unshoulder the weapon.

Firing from prone is hard with any magazine that sticks below the grip, if its a long magazine such as a 40 rounder youll have to turn the gun at an angle (a drum still gets in the way abit).

Muzzle blast is that much closer to your face, making the gun louder for you. If you've got a muzzle brake on it you'll have to upgrade to full ear protection.

Others have complained that the trigger pull on a bullpup always sucks. Thats because the trigger has to pull over levers that reach way the fuck back into the rear of the weapon, which in turn release the firing mechanism. Might as well be a rope and pulley system.

> Special Props:

The GM-6 Lynx is a compact 50 caliber bullpup with a recipocating barrel, and with enough inherent size to it the sight radius remains unchanged compared to other rifles. While being more balanced and easier to handle.

Furthermore at a distance, a soldier carrying it might be mistaken for carrying some other kind of DMR. As well as being mistaken for having a sense of hearing.

>>32393288
>>32393279
>>32393273

ie, the FAMAS while looking sci-fi meme tier... actually operates based on ww2 era firearms technology.

It literally could have been built in ww2.

> germans were famous for delayed blowback firearms

And the way it does it isnt kind either. It wouldnt matter if it was firing 30 carbine or 762x39.

>>32393831
>Reloading is going to take a little longer. You will have to take your eyes off of the target to do so and you will have to unshoulder the weapon.
>Firing from prone is hard with any magazine that sticks below the grip, if its a long magazine such as a 40 rounder youll have to turn the gun at an angle (a drum still gets in the way abit).
Literally down to practice. If you can get used to relaoding an AR-15 in the dark you can do the same with a bullpup. It's just a matter of muscle memory regarding the position of the magwell. For reloading prone, I've found bullpups to be more comfortable as it's easier to keep it steady one handed while using the other to change mags.

>>32393851
>ww2 era firearms technology.
That doesn't make it bad, you know. In fact, the delayed blowback guns were designed towards the end of the war, whereas the gas operated rotating bolt Garand rifle entered service in 1934 IIRC.
Lever delayed actions were, however, uncommon.

>>32393237
The RDB supposedly has a great trigger (for a bullpup).

>>32393970
It's better than any service rifle trigger. So is the RFB.

I like the L85A2, now I'm sure you got your memes ready about the A1 but those problems and memes don't exist in the A2.

>>32394004
But Anon, half the memes are caused by the fact they needed HK to fix it.

>>32393213
No seriously, "repill me on x" is literally /pol/-tier garbage and it's overused for everything for that matter. Find a way to not ask the question in an autistic way.

Fundamentally, all engineering designs involve some sort of compromise, and bullpups are a great representation of this. A bullpup is designed to sacrifice any other element of the gun's design except barrel length in order to shorten the gun. There are many good reasons to do this; better balance, quicker to maneuver in close urban environments (where a lot of war is now fought), and less likely to snag on stuff, especially in armoured personnel carriers (again, a rising trend). In order to achieve this, the designer must sacrifice many things, but mostly trigger mechanism simplicity, action simplicity, action accessibility and magazine placement. Now, this doesn't necessarily lead to an unreliable action and crap trigger, but it doesn't help designers make a good trigger. Then we add on the fact that regular semiauto/auto rifles have had 80 years since the first mass military adoption, plus another 40 years of trial and development before that to mature and incrementally improve, compared with about 40 years total for the bullpup (with far less interest as well), it's easy to see why commonly available bullpups seem inferior in the ways people often cite (poor trigger, poor ergos etc.). These are not issues inherent in bullpups, but issues due to bullpups being a poorly experimented area because there isn't that much time or interest in them. The most recent offerings, such as the Kel-tec RDB and the Tavor X95, have quite acceptable triggers and ergos out of the box.

>>32394015
and what was fixed became the A2 and I like the L85A2

>>32394034
As for the "solution looking for a problem" critique, well, there are some valid points to that. Bullpups do not solve any problem a shortened barrel, a good flash hider and a folding stock doesn't already cover (although it can definitely be argued that the first two can be incorporated into a bullpup design for even more gains in the maneuverability department), and those three features combined still costs a lot less than a bullpup. This is why AR PDWs seem to be on the rise both in military and civilians markets in recent years; the need was real, but bullpups aren't the most cost effective way to fulfill it.
That said, it should be noted that the civilian market is different from the military market which this long rant mostly focused on. As civilians, we can't just put a shortened barrel on the gun, and sometimes even folding stocks draw the ire of our overlords, and on top of everything else, for home defense, we are far more likely than the military to be fighting in confined urban spaces with people with weak upper body strength who would benefit from a rear-balanced gun. Bullpups are a perfectly good way of getting SBR levels of compactness without having to file a stamp, and there is at least one offering now that makes it price competitive as well as time competitive to an SBR: the Kel-tec RDB. Especially in restricted states, there are very good reasons with relatively few downsides to own a bullpup.
TL;DR: bullpups have a use, but for the military most of the time it's cost ineffective. For civilians, they are good if you don't want to wait 8 months for an SBR.
-reddit

>>32394035
Yes
But it's not meme free because its mere existence is a "lol bongs needed Germans to redesign their gun"

Cons
>shitty trigger
>fucked up sight picture, must use an aftermarket scope/red dot
>good luck firing prone without a bipod
>good luck reloading fast while prone
>burns your face/eyes while shooting
>blows half your face off in the case of a critical failure
>is a complete fucking meme design with no real life benefits over conventional firearms

Pros
>looks cool if you're a nogunz airshitter

>>32394208
>opinion
>poorfag
>too stupid to use bullpups prone
>implying you can "quickly reload" stanard rifles prone.
>citation needed
>citation needed
>obviously wrong

>t. A projecting airsoft kiddie