What fighter should Croatia get? They are going to buy 12 new

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>>32334513
You should go with Block 60 F-16. Because reasons.

Another option is the South Korean FA-50

Rafale out of the listed options. But they aren't cheap.

The block 60-62 F16 would be the best value.

>>32334529
Yeah, I know they aren't cheap, but the military budget could go up because of Trump presidency, in which case they would be in the price range.

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>>32334513
This one. Don't buy the shitty f35 meme plane.

>>32334784
First of all, Croatia isn't likely to gain access to the F-35 any time soon and the fact that you don't realise this pretty much exposes the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Secondly:

>Gripen
>less of a meme

okay pal.

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>>32334513
>nobody ever considers buying the Strike Eagle.

Croatia plz.

>>32334827
True. We can't realistically afford to fuel any jets, let alone buy a bajillion $ ones.

In the end it will depend on who can bribe our gummint with more shekels.

>>32334861
Well you guys, just bought the Kiowas, which given your doctrine and geography was a good move. Maybe hand me down F-16s? Not break the budget but still be able to pull some aerial weight in terms of BAP or patrols while forward deployed to Romania.

>>32334909
Dude. We are a post-communist country and, same as all others of the type, we have a shitty economy cause getting rid of communism just meant a whole new slew of crooks seizing power and stealing left and right. If all of that stopped this instant, we'd need at least 50 years to catch up to western europe as far as living standards go (and that also implies radical changes in a lot of ways). Maintaining anything resembling a proper airforce (even poor and technically obsolete) is out of our budget. Trust me, someone pocketed a lot of shekels on that kiowa deal. That's the way things work over here.

Gripen C/D or MLU F-16s due to low per-unit cost and cost per flight hour, with options for further performance upgrades down the line. Done.

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>>32334513
Why do you even ask?

>>32334978
Go to hell mohammed!

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>>32334513
Gripen.

>>32334526
Nice try, Jasiek.

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>>32335095
T-that's not true!

>>32334957
Yeah man, I know. I have family from Dubrovnik, it's only given the tourism why that area hasn't collapsed economically. Tensions there are lower (given it's past history) but it's still all up in the air with that whole region.

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You guys should pick up F-16s, because cheap. Later you can augment them with a dual-use trainer/strike aircraft like the M-346.

Croatia isn't likely to face any major air-to-air threats at any time in the future, you guys should invest more in drones to improve the effectiveness of the ground forces via recon and target acquisition for artillery, an overwatch and do precise Hellfire strikes in situations where major escalation isn't called for.

Hell, I would even get the trainers/light strike fighters now, retire the M-346s, invest the savings in UAVs (Predators or Reaper) and then pick up multi-role fighters in a decade or so when prices on the Gripen, Rafale and F-35 will all be much lower.

>>32335277
>pipe dreams

>>32335277
>retire the M-346s

I meant to type "retire the Mig-21s"

>>32334527
If they're going for gripen they might as well as getting the FA50

It's has roughly similar capability as gripen C/D model and yet they are cheaper.

>>32334513

Gripen is a top tier 4.5 gen for the price.

>>32334513
MiG-21-2000

Just send all your old MiGs to Israel, they get refurbished & HEAVILY upgraded.

Slap in some new engines and replace some of the skin with composite materials, and tada you have a kick ass little fighter.

>>32334513
Just get Gripens, they are the cheapest to get and fly and it's not like you'll need them anyway

Croatia should just get 20-30 combat-capable jet trainers. All they need is something to keep their air force's expertise alive while capable of challenging uncommunicative aircraft in Croatian air space, and perhaps basic ground attack missions if Croatia should ever deploy in a COIN role.

If in a decade or two the security situation is so poor that they need something more, they will have the pilots and expertise to introduce a proper combat aircraft within a couple of years instead of starting from the beginning.

Honestly I think the smaller Central & Eastern European countries should run a collaborative air force within the framework of NATO or the EU. Pilots already need to communicate with English as a lingua franca, and it would be a better situation than being dependent on NATO (like the ongoing Baltic Air Policing mission).

>>32335603
>>32335651
>>32335683
>>32335693
>>32335832

Buy, buy, buy!
With what? FFS, our highways can't collect enough toll to cover their electric bill, our hospitals can't afford to buy medicine. We're fucking greece 2.0 but no major politician has the balls to publicly state that 'the emperor is naked'.

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>>32334513
Cheap and good.

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>>32335957
>MiG-35
>cheap

>>32335897

I am sorry to hear this.

>>32334513
Leasing some Gripens.

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>>32335976
40 million per fighter with AESA and most likely equipment is piss cheap.

>>32335897

Not quite true. Croatian unemployment is a tragedy, but they do not suffer quite the same problems as Greece, since the national debt is far smaller, and they still retain their own currency. I wouldn't say that is a comfort to Croatians, more of an illustration at how serious the problem is for Greece...

>>32335897
That's why you NEED to buy hundreds of Rafale. You can't disappear without a last fight, make your end be glorious!

Also
>our highways can't collect enough toll to cover their electric bill
Do you have electric highways or what? No wonder you're in bankruptcy...

>>32335277
>Buying an aircraft design at the end of its lifetime

Gripen is the perfect aircraft for Croatia and has still decades of developement left.

>>32336073
>Not quite true.
OFC. I, living in Croatia since it fucking exists (was alive here even during the former Yugoslavia) have no idea what I am talking about. Please enlighten me oh great one.

>Do you have electric highways or what?
No. What we do have is lighting in certain sections (like street lights), electrical signs (cool thingy, you can change speed limits from a central locations as the need arises), cameras, SOS phones and all of that + toll booths run on elven farts and not electricity. Combine that with the fact that people actively avoid the highways because of tolls whenever they can and the math is quite simple.

2nd part of >>32336136 was for >>32336079

J-10

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L-39 NG obviously

>>32336136
>people actively avoid the highways because of tolls
That means there's not enough traffic to force people to chose the highways, certainly because they mostly make short routes. You shouldn't have had highways...

Buy Rafale btw.

>>32336324
>You shouldn't have had highways...
And you couldn't be more right. Investment like that was completely retarded but it did allow certain enterprising building magnates (all either related by blood to then current gummint or political party colleagues) to make a few bucks and temporarily lower the unemployment rates since elections were around the corner. As I said, greece 2.0

You people living in decent and organized countries will never know what fuckery it is to exist in a 3rd world shithole.

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>>32336401
>implying 1st world countries are exempt of corruption
You know in the said "first world" countries only an elite can enjoy the "first world", the vast majority of people live a boring life at best, not counting the poors...

Stop complaining and buy our fucking rafales!

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Croatia had a more bloody revolution back in the early 90s than I realized. Were you around for that shit, OP?

>>32336618
being bored with decent living standards > jumping through hoops to make ends meet

Gripen is the best option, simply because the Swedes give the best offers. We are also purchasing a bunch of fighters soon, and they are the only side that will probably offer maintenance, spare parts and training as a part of the deal.

t. Bulgarian

Lease some Gripen C/D's like Hungary and Czech are doing and try to arrange some joint maintenance and training to cheap on the costs even more. Swap them for new E's in the 20's if you have more ambitions

>>32334831
Literally no one is buying F15. The only countries who are placing orders are maintaining existing fleets.

>25SQM RCS

no.

Does Croatia even need an air force? It has a smaller population than (historic) Lancashire, has no expeditionary ambitions so would be fighting exclusively defensively, wouldn't buying a really advanced ADN and creating a super robust militia make more sense?

>>32337603
>Another small nation with ambitions.
Nothing to see here, folks.

>>32337603
see
>>32335897
>>32336136
>>32336401

>>32334513
3 options :
buying or leasing of gripen just like other center european countries. However the swedes are going to try to sell the NG which is much more expensive. Other option would be to get those another country stopped to use in favor or another aircraft... But then why not directly settle for this aircraft instead ?

buying f-16 with the risk of getting shitty planes just like in poland
However the last generation of F-16 are very advanced fighters with aesa and stuff. They may also represent a way in for a small croatian industry.

Buying the Rafale, well this would please me as a french but there would be no point to do so since croatia has no reasons to have such a multirole capable aircraft. However it's arguably the plane with the best planned evolution potential of all three, and France is willing to offer tech transferts as well as a share in the market for the aircraft. This may be a good option if Croatia had this ambition to have some sort of related industry, except it doesn't.

Since they want "new" fighters I suppose buying used is out of option. And russians aircrafts are out too I guess.

Hmmm.

I bet 50% for Gripen in leasing and 50% for an F16 block 52 close to the greek standart since Croatia has the same geostrategic conditions to deal with (balkans, adriatic sea...)

These two options are the most reasonable to me.

>>32336273
JL-9. Looks better and easier to control.

>>32337603
ever meet a croat? its the only thing worse than a serb.

>>32334526
i don't normally hate cft.

but i really hate the ones on the f 16. they make it look so ugly.

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>>32337556

>>32336043

Mig-35 isn't even in service with the Russians, and knowing the track record of the other Mig-29s, any country looking to buy them should wait a couple years to see how many the Russians lawndart before handing over the money.

>>32339438

Nothing is worse than meeting a Serb.

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>>32340089
Good morning, Egypt has already bought it.

>>32340104
For a Croat, maybe.

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>>32334513

How big is the budget? 2nd hand F-16s with MLU work are pretty cheap nowadays which you can get from other European NATO countries but the Gripen is pretty close in price and you will get a LOT more life out of a new airframe. Hungary and Czech Republic's operation of the Gripen would also mean greater possibility of local cooperation for defence. Saab also offers 'lease to own' deals for the Gripen which the Czechs are doing right now and would save even more money.

And lets be honest, the Rafale and Typhoon would be overkill for Croatia. The only thread Croatia has is Serbia buying 6 refurbished MiG-29s from Russia (likely SMT standard)

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/15/russia-to-boost-serbian-defense-with-mig-2-fighter-jets.html

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>>32340117
Not exactly the best source for sound procurement decisions.

>>32336288
It can work as light attack fighter, but why do you think Czech Air Force sold 2/3 of their L-159, while considering to double the amount of leased Gripens

>>32335897
Buy some KA-50s. If the fucking Philippines can afford some then so can you.