What went wrong with America?

>>32334318
>What is it, Israel?
Bingo

Think about it, the Jews got their F-35 first and they got shit loads of money even though they don't have almost no resources...


>5. Lockheed Martin: Lockheed Martin, one of the world’s largest companies with over $45 Billion dollars in revenue, is among the companies that have helped Israel continue to develop economically. In the very important Southern region of the country, they recently opened an office and as they said it was dedicated to “..further demonstrate the Corporation’s commitment to supporting the Israeli Defense Force and their “Move to the South” campaign.”


https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/14256/top-10-guardians-jewish-people/#I3QeiL3gAGu3xeR8.99

We pulled so far ahead we decided to give the rest of the world at least a chance to catch up. And we're very disappointed so far.

Big projects like this are, undoubtedly, money laundering projects.


I don't think it's Israel because I don't think Israel is endgame. Israel is almost like the Area 51 to the really really hardcore /x/ people. It's a cover up to a cover up.

>>32334360
>I don't think it's Israel because I don't think Israel is endgame. Israel is almost like the Area 51 to the really really hardcore /x/ people. It's a cover up to a cover up.

Keep covering it up, JDIF.
You're doing a very good job

The US stuck with it for the bribe- I mean lobbying by lockheed

>>32334346
This is unreal.

How powerful is the almighty Jew, really?

I don't think we'll ever know.

>>32334365

Why would Israel want a big lemon like the F-35, lol?

File: ofer-shafir-double-formation-passes-shot-sky-2-00020.jpg (217KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

217KB, 1920x1080px

Worth noting the IAF originally wanted the F-15SE. And when denied, later spoke about adding another cockpit to the F-35. You really get the sense they were hedging their bets on the F-35, not quite trusting its capabilities.
And now, Israel is going to be buying 50, and probably another 25 on top. They can't say enough good things about it.
Really makes you think.

>>32334318
>I don't know anything about development cycles but have an opinion anyways
The CV-22 Osprey was called a deathtrap only a few years ago. Its current safety record is excellent.

>>32334462
Hmm... It's almost as if the F-35 is one of the most capable fighters in the world at the moment? And maybe your retarded 1970s-era Pierre Sprey memes don't actually mean anything in the real world?

>>32334534
the Israeli camouflage looks pretty good but I'm wondering whether it's radar absorbent or not. I remember hearing that they've only made a few radar absorbent pigments so far?

>>32334754
That's just an artist rendering of what they may look like in the future.

>>32334754
That's photoshop. They're probably not going to desert camo them like the old F-4s unless they want to throw a bunch of money at a low operational return project like pigmented RAM paint which is nearly as effective as what was already developed for the F-35, not to mention making it compatible with robotic application.

>>32334318
Usually these things just are one by one, a bunch of senators/representatives figuring out how to work the deal so that their state gets in on it. Gradual accumulation. Snowball of porkbarreling. Removing earmarking just made the porkbarreling more complicated, not nonexistent.

>>32334534
>the IAF originally wanted the F-15SE

If you give me sauce on this, I will suck ur dick

>>32335074
The actual timeline looks something more like this:
>we want the F-22. now. yesterday. please god, all the F-22s.
uh, we aren't selling those. to anybody. especially not to people who just got done jumping China two generations in avionics for a little cash.
>YOU SUCK FILTHY ANTISEMITES/FATTIES/IMPERIALIST SCUM (in chorus with pretty much every other major US ally who got told similar things)
yeah. we know. you're welcome for not becoming a communist paradise in the early 80's.
>fuck. fine. what else you got?
well, there's this awesome F-16 replacement in the pipes.
>will it be the fastestest, nimblestest, most airshow awesome and overall bestest possible fighter?
no, no, no and outside of A2A (haha, F-22) yes
>wot?
shit is changing, schlomo. wait and see.
>fuck you. what else you got? what about an F-15 upgrade?
well, Boeing slapped together this showpiece with marginally reduced RCS (still entire continents larger than the F-22 or F-35) which will cost just as much if not more than F-35s and still require to you upgrade most of your air force hangar facilities
>FUCK
yup
>fine. fuck it. give us some of dat new F-35 hot sauce. it better not fucking suck

10 years later

>ok. yup. we get it now. gives about 50 more of these beautiful little fat fuckers

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3035572-DOT-amp-E-AF-IOC-Memo.html

Is POGO correctly or incorrectly representing this memo?

File: F-15SE_Silent_Eagle_Front_B7R.jpg (62KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 1280x720px

>>32335074
>https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/israel-requests-extra-squadron-of-f-15s-418487/
This isn't the first time they had asked. They had been wanting them from at least 2010.

>>32335227
>http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/ss_israel0641_07_12.asp
>Diplomatic sources said Obama refused a request by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for Israeli access to a proposed stealth variant of the F-15E fighter-jet.
Israel didn't acquire them because Obama refused to sell them, not because they didn't think it was good.
They probably wanted an ace up their sleeve in case the F-35 didn't live up to expectations.

File: 1386942370275.jpg (35KB, 640x432px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 640x432px

>>32335227
differen't anon, this is more or less how it went down.
>dod's face through the last 3 decades

>>32335327
Strangely enough, extremely similar to how the F-16 went down with foreign sales as well.

They had to bribe, blow and backscratch every foreign politician and military official to get it done, but at the end of it, looking back, not one of those countries is saying, "MAN. I wish we'd bought the fucking Viggen, Jaguar or Mirage F1 M-53 instead!"

There is nothing to suggest the F-35 won't be every bit as successful operationally and financially as the F-16 in 40 years.

>>32335300
If Israel could put dicks and vaginas into their F-15s, there would be no Jews left in Israel in 60ish years. They would literally lose all interest in making babies.

They love the F-15 way, way too fucking much.

File: One-wing-F-15.jpg (78KB, 736x572px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 736x572px

>>32335403
No country operates the Eagle and doesn't walk away impressed.

104:0
And counting.

File: 1362846202537.gif (1MB, 320x232px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 320x232px

>>32335380
That's the best part anon! That, along with just about every other aircraft post procurement turned out to be the best aircraft of their time and class. Late block F-16s, superbugs, eagles, everyone uses them and loves them. All of the screaming, shiposting and pierre sprey memers moan about the F-35 never seem to see the posts about how the aircraft they adore share the same development history as the F-35. These threads are hilarious for me, the salt is wonderful.

>>32335448
This is true. It's a fantastic airframe with a legendary combat record. Absolutely no argument there.

It's also, however, 44 years old as an airframe, and it's been operational as a front-line air superiority fighter for 40 years. Even the Mudhens (F-15E), which still seem newish for some reason, have been in service for 28 years. While the "best in the stable" spot belongs to the F-22 for the USAF, the F-15C is still heavily used and still very much a part of the front-line mix, and the F-15E is still absolutely essential.

To put that in perspective, the fighters most of the world thinks of as the long-term front line endurance champions:
>F-4 was in combat service with the US for 36 years, and was only really considered front line for about 22 of those years.
>MiG-21/J-7 has been in service for 57 years, but hasn't been considered the cream of the Soviet/Sino crop since the mid-80s. While the BIS and other variant upgrades have made it marginally relevant even today, was only truly front line for about 25 years

At some point, it's time to take the accumulated knowledge, technology and advancement in military aviation and actually move on to a new clean sheet design, preferably before F-15 airframe fatigue starts dropping them out of the sky. Any economist, engineer or scientist will point out the dangers of becoming locked into an upgrade/refurbish/refit cycle and sucking more and more budget and R&D into tailoring marginal solutions into old frameworks rather than recognizing things have advanced far enough that a clean sheet design is both technically and economically more efficient for exploiting the state of available technology.

File: mig-25u.jpg (615KB, 1510x1521px) Image search: [Google]

615KB, 1510x1521px

>>32335553
>>32335448
And to think this all started because some CIA spooks misinterpreted the plans for the MiG-25 and shat themselves.

I wonder how much of the delay is the design, and materials or if its constant software configurations to work with the features of the plane. Like in my head they're sitting around, hyped for getting it finished then some guy from the software department comes in "we got a program that runs more efficiently with the data uplinks and ordnance targeting by 5%"
"Sounds good, implement it"
"We'll have to double, triple, shit might even quadruple check how it interacts with current systems. Should take 2 months to recalibrate everything."

Even then small shit still slips through, like that flight of F-35s (or was it F-22s?) flying from Hawaii to a Japanese air base had to return because the clocks didn't roll over or some shit. Just that small shit that's not necessarily critical to the performance of the plane.

>>32335635
>And to think this all started because some CIA spooks misinterpreted the plans for the MiG-25 and shat themselves.
Shit, the Soviets themselves claimed it would do all that shit publicly. Unfortunately, their tendency to over-exaggerate the capabilities of every new platform they put out really bit them in the ass in this instance, and quite a few others.

>>32335644
Anyone who's worked on a massive software or engineering project will tell you what a massive clusterfuck it is when even small things have to get adjusted to address an issue or optimize/streamline some aspect of performance. That clusterfuck gets several orders of magnitude louder when you add in any of the following:
>public/government contract money coming from taxes
>the lives of US servicemen, from those on the ground depending on CAS/strike/interdiction to get the job done to the pilots that fly these things
>more subcontractors on one project than there are total companies in some niche sectors of the economy
>bleeding edge technology crystal ball fortune telling because the project will take 15+ years and you have to gamble on what will be ready for prime time in 15 years and what won't be - think about how much your life has changed since LM won the contract in 2001 (much less 1993 when program goals and requirements were outlined): in 2001 there were no iPhones (first gen 2007), no Facebook (2004), no streaming Netflix (they were a DVD mailing business until 2007), Amazon had JUST started selling things other than physical books, etc. In 2001, only 8% of the world actually used the internet daily (now it's 40%. For the Developed world, the number was 31% and now 78%). In 1993, less than 3 million people in the US had cell phones (now it's 312+ million active plan subscriptions).
>feature creep, both from expanding available technologies (full HMD displays + DAS, for instance) which weren't even dreamed of in 1993 and from politically/militarily changed/tweeked/added mission sets

>>32335807
TLDR: it's a fucking wonder of the modern world the F-35 program is even marginally successful, looking at it from a systems flow/program manager standpoint

>>32335818
Where there's a will and a trillion dollars, there's a way.

>>32334318
>What is it, Israel?
Yes.
Daily reminder Israel got their F-35s for free by simply handing back money they already demanded (and got) from our Congress.

>>32334411
>I don't think we'll ever know.
>What is Bilderberg group for 400
>What are Rothschilds for 500

There are a fair amount of people that know.

>>32334411
They managed to convince a generation of post-war Americans they had a religious obligation to support Israel because of Hitler or some bullshit. This, of course, allows them to run a train on us over anything, to the point we have to pay for every light and sound magic show they put on, otherwise known as Iron Dome. Basically, a bunch of old people watched some Charlton Heston films and now blow people who openly disdain them.

>>32334462
You'd think they would be investing shekels into refuelers, considering they cannot attack Iran despite all memeing to the contrary.

>>32335227
>no, no, no
Considering what the High-AoA/Intentional departure flight tests look like, I have no doubts that when the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds get their F-35s it will be freaky amazing to watch.

>>32335283
>POGO
>Ever right about anything

>>32335904
*120 billion dollars

Again, that's the 50-year All-Costs Guesstimate.

>>32336098
No doubt. But it'll never be F-22 level airshow awesome. It's just not designed for quite that level of boner inducement.

>>32334534
The Israelis have been part of the F-35 program as a SCP before the F-15SE existed on paper; a couple of years ago they asked / wanted to try and get both the F-15SE and F-35I, but because they couldn't afford (get enough military aid) for both, they dropped the F-15SE.

>>32334318
I like the f-35, it brrrrts and has a nice engine sound.

File: F35 damaged.jpg (22KB, 680x385px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 680x385px

>>32334318
>What is it, Israel?
No even worse, Lockheed.

>>32334318
>What went wrong with America?
retards falling for russian/chink propaganda

>>32334346
Several other nations got the F35 before Israel, including the U.K., the Netherlands, Japan and Aus.

>>32336104
I know, but I'm not technically knowledgeable enough to debunk it.

>>32336582
Dragon029 pretty thoroughly breaks it down here: >>32333213

There is no stealth variant of the F-15. Even Boeing has admitted the F-15SE was little more than a mock-up.

>>32336574
Didn't Italy produce some of their own already too?

>>32336661
They were the first, in fact, to receive it outside the US, about a year ago.

>>32335448

>104:0
>by circle jerking Mirage III ching Mig-21 copies and some other crap that was ages behind it

>>32336677
>>32336661
>>32336574
Other nations have had their F-35s built before Israel (Britain was the first IIRC), but Israel is the first nation to take their jets home permanently, mainly because Israel wants to be rather independent with their F-35 operations. Israel will also be the first nation outside of the US to declare IOC with their jets (late next year).

Italy was the first nation to build an F-35 outside of the US (Japan is the only other nation doing this), but their jets were then flown to the US to join the joint training pool at Luke AFB.

The Netherlands (for what it's worth) was the first to have their own pilots fly their own nation's F-35's in their own home turf.

>>32336738
Thanks Dragon.

>>32334556
One crashed a few days ago.

>>32336894
One crash does not a trend make.

File: 1471200850699.jpg (74KB, 680x680px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 680x680px

>>32334346
>the Jews got their F-35 first
I didn't realize the USMC was Jews. Now fuck off back to /pol/

>DA JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ

>>32334346
>>32334318

It wasn't the Jews per se, but the deals with the rest of NATO would be the real money maker. F-35 was supposed to be the preeminent fighter of the 21st century, and everyone was going to be paying America for the upkeep instead of having a half dozen different fighters. So we kept throwing money into the pit with the promise that we'll make it all back in the long run, but that day keeps stretching further and further away, especially now that many countries are having second thoughts.

>>32337886
>especially now that many countries are having second thoughts.
Both Israel and the UK ordered more on top of their initial commitment. The Dutch and Norwegian militaries are both trying to find more budget money to pick up even just one more squadron. Even the Aussies are shitposting less about it in their press now that their pilots are training in them.

Aside from Canada, whose military finally got through to Trudeau after he was elected and demanded the F-35 remain an option even though he said it absolutely wouldn't be, everyone's nothing but more on board. The people that have actually gotten their hands on these things and seen what they can do cannot stop jizzing over them.

>>32336098
I wonder how close the passes they make will be. Isn't the F35 supposed to be retarded loud?

>>32334411
>>32335999
PRAISE KEK
THE JEW HAS BEEN NAMED

>>32334318
People seem to think that if you throw enough money at science, it will magically work. Additionally, the general expectation is that you can speed up development infinitely by throwing even more money at a project. These mentalities are especially prevalent amongst military brass and elected officials. They are also wrong. If you invest enough money, you simply make it possible to develop multiple cutting-edge technologies and implement them all together in a next-gen aircraft. However, this doesn't make it quick, or even make certain desired design inputs feasible. The F-35 is an example of such a project where people are disappointed that it wasn't possible to brute-force a massive leap in technology and also cram it all into some wonder-waffle whose features were decided upon by a largely STEM-illiterate committee.
Source: engineer with first-hand experience dealing with military ossifers who want the impossible.

>>32334346
This just in - Italy actually beat Israel to the punch:

https://theaviationist.com/2016/12/15/italy-has-become-the-first-country-to-operate-the-f-35-outside-of-the-u-s/

File: 1454747326575.gif (1MB, 500x241px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 500x241px

>>32334318
no just simple bloated bureacracy. lockheed or whoever makes this plane got a bunch of people elected to congress and now get to suck off the taxpayer taint for the foreseeable future

>>32339905
Except the F-35 is almost constantly proving the effort was worth it now.

>>32340509
>And here we see the Spreyfag refusing to accept that, just mayber, the F-35 is actually really good and the X-35 won JSF by its own merits

>>32341088
The gun won't even be operational until 2019. Until then it's just dead weight.

>>32335807
>Soviets themselves claimed it would do all that shit publicly
Cool story.

>>32341100
So fucking what? The Air Force barely even wants the gun, and the Navy and Marines don't want the dead weight of a gun in the plane unless the mission calls for it. Why keep jerking off about the gun when bombs and missiles are what matter?

>>32341132
>Cool story.
Way to pay attention to history. Literally any of it. Read ANYTHING the Soviets or Russians say about their weapons systems for public dissemination. You will find several exaggerations in just about every press release. It's always been their style.

>>32334318
>Demand LockMart design an impossible plane capable of everything from strafing in a hover to delivering nuclear payloads deep inside Russia
>Get surprised when the end result is shit and costs 25% of the national GDP

You have no one to blame but yourself, Ameritards.

Jew here.

Ask me anything about why I hate you American pigs, and what's in store for you cattle.

I've already cleared this post with my bosses and they're actually here with me right now to laugh at you stupid gentiles.

>>32341100
Gun becomes available to operational units late next year.

>>32341245
>None of this is right but I'm going to keep parroting it like the retard I am!

>>32341279
Ok. Tell me, why are you currently acting as a metaphorical human punching bag for the west?

Why suicide bomb america or europe when isreal is just a hop and skip away?

>>32341190
>Implying implications
Cool story.