China ready to launch supersize 10,000-ton destroyer, report says

>>32288471
>destroyers
Literally DOA technology.

They may as well have built another 10,000,000 apartments nobody will occupy.

>>32288471
>lets call a cruiser a destoryer

Ebin china, ebin.

>>32288471
>10000 ton destroyer
The germans make a 7200 ton frigate

Do the classic ship class names even make sense anymore?

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>>32288506
>Let's call an LHD a destroyer

Sasuga Japan!

>>32288523
Destroyer actually sounds more "peaceful" than a Cruiser.

Destroyers destroy enemy attackers and protect carriers/high value assets/your coastline.

Cruisers cruise around the world with their large endurance hulls, lots of weaponry and generally fuck shit up for everyone and anyone.

China's still on the "peaceful rise" thingy, so they will never call a Cruiser a Cruiser, since this implies they want to achieve global power projection.

>>32288596
>Destroyer actually sounds more "peaceful" than a Cruiser.

In no sense of the word is this true. Destoryer destroys, cruisers cruise. Is a cruiseliner a death dealer?

>>32288596
What does it matter how peacefull its sounds? Its still a warship full of weapons. Even if its a small corvette, its task is to kill people. And the people who are in the know dont look at the name to see what it can do.

>>32288605
The original meaning of a Destroyer was a "torpedo boat destroyer", a light escort-ship that protects your fleet, be it navy or merchant, from hit and run attackers. And then it evolves into an Air-Defense Destroyer, which protects other ships from air-attacks, which is the mid-to-late 20st century equivalent of mainstay hit and run attackers. A destroyer protects, while a Cruiser was traditionally used to enforce "gunboat diplomacy" around the world, as it has the endurance and weaponry to cruise the world and shoot up niggers and gooks across the oceans.

Cruisers are a symbol of imperialism and hated by anyone wanting to have independence.

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The bowline of the 055 is highly sexual. Help.

>>32288638
Ahhh, so cruise liners are like shoving your dick into a country?

Your talking about how a word sounds.

Also, nobody uses cruisers for gunboat diplomacy, they used battleships and dreadnoughts. Cruisers scouted and raided.

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>>32288669
ontop of it.

>>32288596

its all nomenclature anyways, the old ww2 destroyers are like 2-3k tons, which are smaller than the frigates of today. Burkes would all be classified as heavy cruiser. the 52d is like a light cruiser and the 055 is a heavy cruiser.

Modern day frigates are really destroyers and destroyers are cruisers.

>>32288673
> they used battleships and dreadnoughts

Yeah, maybe against peer opponents.
But the ships that sailed up the Yangtze to shoot up Chinese farmers and to enforce concessions from the imperial government at that time were gunboats and light cruisers.

>>32288471
>made in china
Yeah its going to suck

>>32288471
>96 vls

Were you chicoms memeing about 136 or some shit? MAOR THAN TICO was the shill, anyways.

What happened?

>>32288673
>nobody uses cruisers for gunboat diplomacy
He is correct.

Cruisers were used for long range, far away colonial matters. The classical cruiser hull design reflects that. No one needed a battleship to force some 3rd worlders to your will.

>>32288700
Thats not gunboat diplomacy, thats litterally raiding.

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>>32288704
128 in fact.

The source has no idea/is guestimating. The ship also weights 12.000 tonne empty and 13,5k tonne full.

Comparing the VLS-size between 055 and 052D at the same yard already tells you that the 055 features a much larger one. In fact, it is twize the size of the 052D's

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>>32288729

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>>32288704

>>32288673
Why would you sent your largest and strongest ships around half the the globe to enforce some shit on people who probalty dont even have a navy?

>>32288753
Gunboat diplomacy was about show of force. Thats why.

>>32288729
>The source has no idea/is guestimating

Then why should we trust its other claims?

Im seeing other sources saying 96/96+ with simple googlefu

>>32288765
Now please explain to me why all the colonial powers used cruisers for the colonial matters?

The battlecruiser itself was a direct development of this reality. They wanted a cruiser who had much more fire power than other cruisers to quickly destroy them in case of war with other colonial powers (hint: because they had no battleship fleets in the colonies). Thats why the battlecruisers got rekt when the engaged battleships in Jutland.

>>32288805
>Now please explain to me why all the colonial powers used cruisers for the colonial matters?

They didn't beyond raiding and scouting.

>>32288704

VLS numbers are a funny business. Without understanding the equipped missiles pk or ratio it's kinda meaningless.

So the reason why China might gives this cruiser so many VLSs is because they accept that to intercept one missile/aircraft it requires two/three of theirs. Different nations have different ratios for missiles.

Example being USS Mason used three missiles to intercept two C-802s in the Gulf.

>>32288788
True number remains to be seen. In any case, the frontal VLS is big enough for 64 cells alone. The next days and weeks will show how many the aft VLS cells are.

112-128 is entirely possible.

>>32288944
It is normal USN procedure to launch 2-3 missiles per target as well.

VLS numbers do not signify any Pk reasons. Or else, the US wouldn't have those Ticos and is thinking about to build the Arsenal Cruiser based on the San Antonio class.

>>32289086
He brings up a good point, they didnt.

Maybe the USN is threat based. Subsonics get one till x range, supers get two till x range...etc.

>semi-submersible ship

How?

>>32289105
Aren't all ships semi-submersible? :^)

>>32289105

See

>>32288621

>>32289086

Why launch 2-3 missiles per target if you've got a high pk?

Just to note, I didn't mean to imply that pk was the sole factor in the VLSs size.

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>>32289167
Unless they're russian, in which case their entire fleet is fully submersible

>>32289459
Because even if your SAMs have a 99% chance of taking out their target a 1% chance of something hitting your ship is pretty unacceptable

>>32289650

As such is the answer I expected.

But why is the size of the VLS unrelated to pk? Is mostly related to being able to sustain operations with a decent margin of spares?

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>>32289603

>>32288738
I'm seeing nothing but a continual source of flex and stress failures. If you're designing a ship for the Pacific, and if you're doing modular construction, you want the longer modules toward the bow.

These 055 are going to start hogging and sagging like a mad bastard in any kind of a heavy sea. I forsee a very short service life, with hellish maintenance issues. Wouldn't be surprised if a few are lost in typhoons and the like.

>>32289940

Interesting.

See I've made a point on something like that in an early thread. Whilst everything looks shiny and has all sexiness it needs, people are looking over the fine details. Like with the Chinese warships having AESA, but that says nothing about the implementation of it. The algorithms that do the signal interpretation or other unsexy things that matter that you learn from experience.

>>32290163

having worked as a consultant for lockheed before, I can assure you any code put together by a bunch of monkeys typing random things would do better than the shit that is implemented over there.

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>>32289940
It's length to beam ratio actually isnt that narrow; 180m*21m.

Due to its displacement, it would have fairly good sea-keeping capabilty.

Note that China actually tested that 12k tonne hull: Their large coast guard cutter.

Cruisers have no role in modern naval warfare.

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>tfw 055 will get a 9m long monster SAM with 500km range.

>meanwhile USA's Burke-class is straight from the 80's

>>32288471
>semi submersible

What did they mean by this

It can run aground and sink halfway

>>32291713
its ok though
they've been "upgraded"
haha

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>>32291734
I think they mean more MLPs to transport their new Zubr fleet with.

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>>32291713
>>32291749
It's always impressive how clean designed modern Chinese ships are compared to American ships

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>>32291817

>>32291817

Not really if you consider the age difference between those two classes.

>>32291849
But China is 30 years behind the USA!

>>32291855

I know you're being disingenuous, but I'm sure you're more than aware of the gap between China and the US.

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It's the same with the JMDSF. All their domestic designed ships look streamlined as fuck and there are the Kongou and Atago classes based on the Burke and they look like shit

>>32291885
Yes, modern Chinese destroyers are the better ships.

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>>32291906

No, that's just cherrypicking before they've been fitted out.

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Fucking jews.

Even on warships, the chinese demand money for the snack vending machine.

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>>32291956
The Mapo Tofu looks good tho

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>>32291966
The amount of chili peppers helps against the constipation of consuming them MREs.

>>32291946
It isn't cherrypicking.

The new Asahi is just not based on a class from the 80's.

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>>32291990
fried rice

>>32288471
>made in china
>lol

>>32292002
>>32291990
>>32291966
That's some good stuff.

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>>32288669
I hope they will find a replacement to the VHF Yagi radar. Not that it isnt a good radar by itself, but something more "modern" would be great.

>>32291999

It certainly is.

Any Aegis (excluding Ticos) warship is a derivative of the Burke class. Unless you can prove that somehow JMDSF have moved anyway from the core Burke design, when the Asahi is based off the Akizuki.

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>>32292002
>>32292013

More about the life onboard a Chinese destroyer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5gE_03bT0

>>32292078
Wat?

Japan has basically two lines of destroyers in service.

The AEGIS destroyers based on the Burke class like the Kongou and Atago clases with additional command and control facilities to operate as flagship of a fleet.

And an own domestic designed destroyers which also uses own radar systems (Akizuki-class already operates AESA radars) to protect the flagship and other high value ships.

>>32292116

You are correct, but the core layout remains a derivative of a Burke/Aegis ship. That alone should be obvious by the superstructure.

It's funny how the several fuckups helped China to catch up.

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Will the 055 still have the PJ-38 gun? Or are they going to install a 155?

>>32290220
Your response has nothing to do with what I posted. The modular construction technique that they're using will cause severe flexing and premature joint failure at the point where the smaller bow section ties in to the larger body section.

They should have put the smaller section aft, making the bow/amidships section a single monocoque unit. Doing it that way would lead to fewer stress failures because the bow of a ship takes more/heavier pounding. Installing a natural failure point within the first half of the ship is just shoddy design work and bad engineering practice.

>>32291916
Not very likely. They're built more to commercial standards, as opposed to milspec. You're confusing new and pretty with functional capability. Only time will tell if the Chinese ships are comparable to USN ships.

And don't even get me started on the multitudinous shortcomings of Chinese naval doctrine.

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>he thinks having more VLS tubes means better ship
By that logic Sejong-class Aegis is the most powerful ship in the west.

>>32292002
Ok, now I'm triggered. That mess deck is tarted up like a Princess cruise liner. Missile, fire, and splinter hazards as far as the eye can see. If these people ever have to strip ship, the battle will be over before they're done.

All of that extraneous bullshit is going to burn, clog eductors, trip DC teams, or fly around and break shit the first time the ship takes a serious shock.

>>32294185
>They're built more to commercial standards, as opposed to milspec.

Zumwalt
LCS
Ford

Built to milspec huh? You sure about that?

>Only time will tell if the Chinese ships are comparable to USN ships.

see above.

>And don't even get me started on the multitudinous shortcomings of Chinese naval doctrine.

Please start.

>>32288471
How do we stop the chinks from taking over the world? They have a billion people.

>>32288471
i thought battleships were obsolete

>>32292082
Lots of pics of the galley and messdeck, let's get a look at the berthing areas and heads. Maybe some of the engineering spaces.

>>32294363
>You sure about that?

Yep. All of the USN ship classes that you listed are designed and built from the keel up to milspec. I've seen enough pics now of the builds of the 052 and 055 classes to be confident that they're designed for ease of speedy construction. Frame spacing and plating thicknesses are more reminiscent of cargo haulers than warships. I'd be willing to wager that there's minimal redundancy among critical systems.

>see above

Stupid and pointless comment.

>Please start.

Okay. They're making it up as they go. They haven't decided on a doctrine and a policy for implementing said doctrine. Instead, they're shitting out Yugo-class ships just as fast as they can. They're building hyperthyroidal coast guard cutters for the express purpose of bullying their neighbors by ramming. That's middleschool shit, right there.

They're trying to get into the naval aviation game without any clear direction.

It's glaringly obvious that Chinese naval doctrine is all about mimicking US naval doctrine, with no clear grasp of the underlying principles, causes, and motivations.

That's why China is making copies of the functional equivalent of US ships. That's not what they need, nor is it an effective use of their resources.

>>32288669
>all those rusted cranes

Thats why Chinese naval power will never come close to that of the US, I mean loook at their shipyards, theyre absolutely filthy, antiquated and rusty. An American shipyard will always be pristine, rust free and up to date. If they cant even improve their shipyards, how can they hope to crank out ships beyond a 1960s tech level?

>>32294806
>It's glaringly obvious that Chinese naval doctrine is all about mimicking US naval doctrine, with no clear grasp of the underlying principles, causes, and motivations.

This
China has no idea why they want or need half the stuff they copy or outright steal, they just see that the US has it, so they try to have it too.
Literally a monkey see monkey do country.

>>32294888
>this bait

>>32294806
>Yep. All of the USN ship classes that you listed are designed and built from the keel up to milspec

They are also plagued by mechanical and electrical breakdowns.

>I've seen enough pics now of the builds of the 052 and 055 classes to be confident that they're designed for ease of speedy construction. Frame spacing and plating thicknesses are more reminiscent of cargo haulers than warships.

You obviously have images you can upload amirite?
How can you tell """plating thicknesses""" for that matter from pics?

>Instead, they're shitting out Yugo-class ships just as fast as they can.

You talking about the Chinese or the Americans?

>>32295136
>They are also plagued by mechanical and electrical breakdowns.

Which happens anytime you deploy a new system or platform. The 052 and 055 have had and will continue to have their share of problems. The one that comes immediately to mind is the backwards watertight doors in the transom of the 052. That video is hilarious. That's also the kind of fundamental design blunder that sinks ships.

>How can you tell """plating thicknesses""" for that matter from pics?

Because every time we have one of these China stronk threads, the 50 Cent Brigade obligingly upload tons of pics of the ongoing construction activity. You can get a general idea of plating thickness by comparing it against frame flanges and similar structural members. You get a much better idea of plate thicknesses by looking at stress and battering indicators once the hull is afloat. It's not rocket science.

>You talking about the Chinese or the Americans?

Chinese. Do try to keep up. The US has been building ships at roughly the same pace for over a decade. China has embarked on a spasm of panic building with no end in sight.

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>>32294109
Great, now go tell Bath Iron Works!

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>>32294109
Oh and Ingalls too!

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>>32294806
Mah superior plating thickness!

Hmm, need to call Bath again.

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>>32294806
Start callingBath Iron Works about that bow section and plating thickness. Internet knows best!

>>32291638
>tfw 055 will get a 9m long monster SAM with 500km range.

thw 055 will get a something with an SM-6's range?

>>32296907
>watertight doors in the transom of the 052

Oh you mean that rigging hatch in the non-water tight VDS deck (Under the helo deck and metres above the waterline), which was rectified on the very next ship?

> You can get a general idea of plating thickness by comparing it against frame flanges and similar structural members.

Sure, is that why Burke Flight I and II have plating that are between 3/8" or 7/16"? Or like how USN had to reinforce and double plate Burke IIAs? Right....

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get a load of this faggot
>>32297550

>>32297566
>>32297597
Completely different technique, jackass. Notice, if you will, the relative small size of the modules. There's also some interlocking features of the hull girder that you don't find on Chinese construction.

>>32297884
LOL shifting goalpost time? Let me quote you:
>The modular construction technique that they're using will cause severe flexing and premature joint failure at the point where the smaller bow section ties in to the larger body section.

They should have put the smaller section aft, making the bow/amidships section a single monocoque unit.

Now look at >>32297566 and tell me where the weld lines are. I am not even going to mention how at least in the Ingalls photo, the keel is complete at that point.

>There's also some interlocking features of the hull girder that you don't find on Chinese construction.

You know why I picked that photo first up? So it shows all those weld lines on the modules that extends all the way straight down to the double bottom, so keep BSing.

>>32297884
>Notice, if you will, the relative small size of the modules.

LOL
Smaller completed modules are a sign of LESS advanced shipbuilding techniques, or a sign of inadequate dockside equipment that can not handle larger modules, which those ten year old old photos show.

BTW using your yard stick, I look forward to you criticising those Zumwalt modules at >>32297689. Won't be holding my breath.

>>32297597
Why is there a chinky letter on the hull?

>>32294185
>no proof was ever delievered

Love such posts

>>32297620
>>32297689
You're actually making my case for me. Hull plating in both of those pics is thick enough that the edge plane is clearly visible. Comparing with known-size objects in the same pic, it looks like those hulls are in the 1" to 1-1/2" thick range.

Compare that with the 14-19 mm thickness of Chinese construction.

>>32294806
>That's why China is making copies of the functional equivalent of US ships

Interesting

Which are copies?

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>>32298209
LOL, keep digging cowboy.

US uses 15.3# plate (3/8")and 17.85# plate (7/16") for hull plating on Burkes, increasing to 20.4# (1/2")near the keel. Flight I and II Burkes are so overstressed that the USN had to double plate IIAs up to the main deck to rectify this issue.

The platings on all modern destroyers are so thin that they warp and show the girder underneath when seen under direct light FFS.

1" to 1-1/2" thick plating? You have never ever seen a modern destroyer in real live have you?

>>32297965
>Now look at >>32297566 # and tell me where the weld lines are. I am not even going to mention how at least in the Ingalls photo, the keel is complete at that point.

And again, totally different modular construction technique. Ingalls and Bath don't build wildly varying module sizes. Using modules that are more closely matched in size tends to equalize flexural stresses throughout the hull. Sticking small sections onto the ends of larger sections tends to concentrate flexing and stress at the join between the two.

Not every section needs to be identically sized, but there are upper and lower limits to the size disparity. Module loading, and placement within the overall structure also play a part.

>You know why I picked that photo first up? So it shows all those weld lines on the modules that extends all the way straight down to the double bottom, so keep BSing.

So, you don't know what a hull girder is, or how it works. Good to know.

>>32298029
I also should have pointed out that the modules were more comparable with each other in size. Apparently you're too stupid to figure that out on your own, and too ignorant to realize why that's a good thing.

>>32298375
Sure Mr 1 inch hull plating. Like I said, you might need to call Bath Iron Works, now that they also now work with much larger modules during new Burke and Zumwalt constructions.
>Sticking small sections onto the ends of larger sections
>>32288669
So a 50 metre (give or take) module is now a small section huh. Keep digging.

>So, you don't know what a hull girder is, or how it works. Good to know.

Sure sure, those girders are going to handle the vertical shear if that entire weld line is stressed. Gotcha.

>>32298215
Please note the useage and placement of the words "functional equivalent". Specifically, carriers and the 052s and 055s as Burke/Tico surrogates.

China doesn't need to have a blue water, force projection navy. These designs are a bad fit for what they need to do.

>>32298485
That doesn't even make sense.

Of course China will have something that is comparable to a destroyer in NATO forces. That's some bullshit.

>>32298425
Zulwalt assembled in 3 major sections at BIW:
>Superior US engineering!
055 bow section ready to be attached with hull and stern sections that are already assembled together:
>nothing but a continual source of flex and stress failures.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

>>32298500
Doesn't help that Chinese ships are also way more allrounder with anti-ship capacities worth a shit.

It's some silly trolling.

>>32298326
> increasing to 20.4# (1/2")near the keel. Flight I and II Burkes are so overstressed that the USN had to double plate IIAs up to the main deck to rectify this issue.

And lets see: 1/2" plate, doubled, comes out to... 1".

Imagine that. Just like I said.

Wow, it's almost like I spent 20 years working on military ships and in shipyards, or something.

And again, you still have no idea what a hull girder is. It's not a frame member, I'll tell you that much.

>>32298483
>Sure sure, those girders are going to handle the vertical shear if that entire weld line is stressed. Gotcha.

Jesus, dude. Give it a rest. Take 5 minute to google what a hull girder is, and what it does. For some reason, you seem to think it's some kind of frame member.

>>32298508
So why did you post, then?

>>32298531
Desperation. What made you think the double plating was with 20.4# plates? Walked straight into that one Mr 1 inch hull plating.

>Wow, it's almost like I spent 20 years working on military ships and in shipyards, or something. ?
So the same US military shipbuilding industry that brought us San Antonios with 6000 weld faults, LCS with leaks, OHP and Burkes with stressed and cracking hull plates, and Zumwalt with non water proofed shaft seals? Thank you for your service!

>And again, you still have no idea what a hull girder is. It's not a frame member, I'll tell you that much.
You are the only one mentioning members here buddy.

>>32298508
>"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

All that suggests that if there's something wrong with the design or construction you say nothing to save your own face.

>>32298554
Sigh, that is why I said vertical shear.

>>32297822
>Oh you mean that rigging hatch in the non-water tight VDS deck (Under the helo deck and metres above the waterline)

You say that as if it is relevent.

It was a pretty glaringly obvious design flaw.

>>32298587
What, you mean when its pointed out that the construction method and material used are similar to how any other country does it?

>>32289459
>Why launch 2-3 missiles per target if you've got a high pk

You ever play a fire emblem game?

>>32298585
>brings up FIC issues

Wew, im not even him, but....

>implying any ship class does not have FIC issues

Just because china doesnt tell anyone shit about their military does not mean it does not happen.

>>32298621
Real life is not random probability rolls, this meme needs to die.

>>32298500
>Of course China will have something that is comparable to a destroyer in NATO forces. That's some bullshit.

It's just dickwaving. For their needs and strategic situation, they would be better off focussing on something comparable to the OHPs.

Skip carriers completely, focus on something similar to that baby carrier that Japan has and punch out a dozen in the next decade. Put a ski jump on the first batch, until they can develop V/STOL planes that work. Repurpose those mammoth CG cutters into escorts for the carriers, sprinkle a few frigates into the mix, and there you go. Flood the SCS with 8 or so of these mini carrier groups and you got enough weight to get your way against against any but the most determined opponent.

China's trying to build a navy to force project halfway around the globe. It's a waste of time and resources. They just want to say they're in the big-boy club.

>>32298610
Non watertight area so it was never a danger to ship safety. However it was dangerous to crew, so they rectified the hatches to swing outwards from the very next ship. Both ships in service at that point also returned to yard to have new hatches fitted.

Sea trials, feedback, modifications. Showing that the Chinese learnt from the experience.

What was the issue then?

>>32298514
By what metric?

>>32298614

What? Your post does not follow the other.

>>32298639
That attitude is how your favorite character gets crit and dies.

>>32298585
I never said it was a single plate of twice the thickness. However, if you lay one 1/2" plate over another 1/2" plate, you wind up with 1" of plating. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

>>32298640
>they would be better off focussing on something comparable to the OHPs.
They are. 054/054A class FFGs. 24 built, at least 2 more under construction. Cheaper, more numbers, torpedo bait for the CV when SHTF just like OHPs.

>focus on something similar to that baby carrier that Japan has and punch out a dozen in the next decade.
So build ships for a VTOL fighter that is not even on the drawing board and may nor may not run into development issues. Excellent. choice.

>>32298641
The issue is that its such a basic design feature.

>>32298585
>You are the only one mentioning members here buddy.

Whereas you are the only one referring to the hull girder as though it's a framing member.

Wait... You don't know what frame members are, either. Right?

>>32298666
>implying i dont save scum

Easy game famalam. Still is not real life.

Im just going to pop in here and remind you that the USN, in its cut back continuing resolution state, is still putting out more tonnage per year than the PLAN.

>>32298674

He obfuscates his point to make it difficult to argue.

>>32298647
By the metric that the recent Burke class ships don't even carry Harpoon missiles anymore.

>>32298587
>All that suggests that if there's something wrong with the design or construction you say nothing to save your own face.

That perfectly illustrates the primary difference between US and Chinese shipbuilding philosophies.

In the US, we identify the problem and fix it. In China, they hide the problem and hope nobody notices.

>>32298743
>I have no idea what I'm talking

>>32298704
Of course, Fords, Americas, San Antonios and Virginias builds that tonnage number up quick.

The Chinese are not going to out build the USN, rather its dependent on whether the USN is building enough tonnage to replace older ships decommissioning in the next 20 years. .

Both navies basically are a replacing phase.

Only that the Chinese capacities increase at a high rate while the US one's is shrinking.

>>32298735
Sm-2s can and have been used as an AShM.

>>32298766

Trumps 350 ship plan kind of kills that.

>>32298599
Okay, I'll play. Yes, a well designed hull girder would withstand the vertical shear forces in the unlikely event that an entire welded seam gave way.

>>32298775
>but but SM-2

adorable

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>>32298780
Don't forget that the crew can also throw stones at the enemy ships!

>American butthurt

>>32298773
Capacity is only increaseing because they are going from a navy of litteral one gun gunboats and small subs to one of frigates and destoryers.

Us is at a whole other level, both tonnage wise and capabilities, and its widely recognized that the only thing holding back the shipyards is funding.

>>32298587
Right, so how did everyone and /k find out about 052D and its hatch issue? From an news report from the Communist mouthpiece - CCTV.

Same with the propulsion trouble on Liaoning in 2015, same with the diesel power plant trouble on the older 903 AOR in 2012.

Geez they are not doing a very good job of hiding it are they?

>>32298751

If you're truly a "Chinese military watcher" you'll be fully aware of the shoddy craftsmanship that's rampant in China.

So you'll forgive us if we all remain slightly sceptical when all we're typical presented with pictures of flowers, rainbows and sunshine, metaphorically speaking.

>>32298787
What the US navy is holding back is the lack of new ship classes.

Zumwalt failed and now the navy is forced to put their BMD on a ship class which is too small for that job.

>>32298796
>If you're truly a "Chinese military watcher" you'll be fully aware of the shoddy craftsmanship that's rampant in China.

>no proof was ever provided

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>>32298807

>>32298813
>Now I'm posting memes

>>32298634
FIC? All Avondale built San Antonios were crap.

Not even going to mention the well publicised issues with OHPs, nor the LCS saga.

>>32298794

Yes and that's good, but do you honestly think that western navies are not subjected to more journalistic scrutiny than their Chinese friends?

>>32298780
>>32298783

The Joshan thought it was real cute as the top superstructure was removed.

>>32298807

Feigned ignorance if you wish, but like I said. You're the one that has to change our mind about our views on China.

>>32298799
>Zumwalt failed

Its getting a second look by trump. Again, all it needs its funding.

>>32298823
And who is claiming that here? I must be missing it.

>>32298834
>Can't provide proof

>>32298799
>Zumwalt failed and now the navy is forced to put their BMD on a ship class which is too small for that job.

What

was the Zumwalt ever designed for the BMD role?

I see backup has been called in.

>>32298839
>>32298840

Again, keep dancing around the issue. You're the ones who are here to change our assertions.

>>32298844
It was supposed to operate as base for a air defence and BMD role cruiser.

>>32298855
>dancing around
>while you can't provide any evidences for your very own claim

>>32298836
For someone who is thought to hate white elephants and is pragmatic (his tweet on F35 for example), why not more Flight IIIs?

The oldest Flight I Burkes are now almost 30 years old. USN need s to plan for their replacement too, so that means numbers.

>>32298820
>All Avondale built San Antonios were crap.

Greenbay, new york, and the USS anchorage are all fine. Nice try.

>>32298844
Burke-class weren't build for years because the class was supposed to be replaced by a new destroyer.

But that didn't work out.

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>>32298866
can someone redo this comic with china?

>>32288471
Will we ever get a good ship again or are we doomed to not have a good navy anymore desu i have lost all hope in this country's military we suck we should just go isolationist and shit out the world at this point we are the laughing stock of the world now

>>32298876
Why don't you try and provide some arguments for your claim instead of talking in memes?

Guy doesn't make you look you very good.

>>32298867
The F-35 tweets were a look at the procrument process, not the bird itself.

He is pragmatic. He needs more ships. The zums already been invested in with no ROI. Its a no brainer.

He wont get to 350 ships with the current plan. The most recent USN budget proposal added in a couple billion more due to trump.

>>32298881
Shut*

>>32298866

Because I'm saying it's an already known factor. I'm wanting you to convince me, as a supposedly ignorant why should I not remain sceptical? As a person with "No evidence" it should be easy to correct me, no?

>>32298855
I have learnt years ago the futility of trying to change people's set perceptions, and even more of a time waster to do so on the internet.

I just like to call out BS when I see it, and don't really care what your "assertions" are.

>>32298678
>So build ships for a VTOL fighter that is not even on the drawing board and may nor may not run into development issues. Excellent. choice.

Or stay with the ski jump. It would be a better decision than trying to build real carriers based on a reverse-engineered Soviet design. Once they get the design right, then they have to bootstrap nearly a century of naval aviation experience and doctrine development just so they can be relevant and contemporary.

They're playing to our strengths, doing it the way they are.

>>32298902

So what's the point of these threads then? If we're all so set in our ways.

I completely understand what you're saying, but I'm wanting to learn. I'd like it if you could point me to a book or something of the like that would educate me in modern China.

>>32298870
USS New Orleans- Propulsion
USS New York - Bent crankshaft
USS Green Bay - Steering

Top 3 + USS Mesa Verde: Contamination and shavings in lube and engines.

Nice try.

Why don't you have a read yourself:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL34476.pdf

>>32298938
This is 4chan, aren't we all here just for the Banter? I am sure that you can find the more serious places for more serious discussions.

>>32298915
A pair of STOBAR carriers to learn the ropes of carrier operations. Then CATOBAR in 10 years time.

Certainly not the worst start a navy can have to ship borne fixed wing naval aviation, and China do have other peers and rivals such as Japan, India, Vietnam etc where those carriers can potentially be useful against.

>>32298735
Possibly a point. It also illustrates another fundamental difference between the USN and PLAN.

The USN uses carrier air wings for antiship tasks. Burkes are there primarily to protect the carrier.

China hasn't developed naval aviation to the point that they can rely on that for antiship roles. So, like the Soviet Union used to do, China has to have their ships be jacks of all trades.

>>32298751
We see that. Stop posting until you come up to speed.

Impressive

I've learned a few things about China, even with all the White Noise that Americans are spouting in the thread.

>>32298794
Kind of makes you wonder what casualties they're not talking about.

The ones they do mention are all kind of minor stuff. Well, except for that submarine they lost. Or are they not talking about that?

>>32298952
>USS New Orleans- Propulsion

Concurrently built with the SA, thats the risk you take.

>USS New York - Bent crankshaft

Found during shakedowns, fixed immediately, commissioned with zero issues.

>USS Green Bay - Steering

Found during shakedowns, one of three other problems, fixed immedially, commissioned with zero issues.

Nice try. If your going to point out minor issues during shakedown (the entire point of the shakedown), then just stop posting.

The SA and NO was a clusterfuck, but the ships after have been performing extremely well.

>>32298899
Crimea had a referendum that says they are Russian. It's a known factor.

>>32299042
Zero oversight, russian soliders at the polling place. There is a reason why nobody is accepting the results.

>>32298979
Still missing the century of experience and doctrinal development.

>>32299058
crimea is all ethnically russian
And ukraine is a super poor shitty country that had just been taken over via a western backed coup.

>>32299087
Navy is the most non-white branch, the idea that the US navy having more recent history is somehow relevant today is nonsense.
I expect mass mutinies to occur in any conflict, much like how blacks were constantly mutinying during ww2/korea/vietnam.

What's with all the Chink shilling this week? Are Zhangs getting THIS upset by Trump's memeing?

Sigh... drag article to near bottom and grab a quick excerpt:

By late 2010, all five LPDS built at that point still needing partial or complete work on engines and main reduction gear bolts due to improper installation:

>“The foundation bolts were not properly aligned or tightened. The main reduction gear was
not properly installed and checked out,”

>Similar problems have been found on the second ship in the class, the New Orleans, and to a lesser extent on the third ship, the Mesa Verde. The bolts on the fourth ship, the Green Bay,
were “much better,” McManamon said, and about four bolts needed replacement on the New York, the fifth ship.

All that in less than 20 seconds. Keep blaming everything on shake down issues though.

NG yards are shit and you know it.

>>32299106
Ok? What does that have to do with the way the election was handled?

>>32299117
1000% yes. All he did was talk with taiwan and china is triggered as fuck.

>China's ships aren't breaking down

See! How they are hiding there flawed ships!

>American ships breaking down on a weekly base

It's a feature!

>>32299128
The first three ships were built concurrently, with a small gap between the first and second ship.

Thats the risk you take. NG yards are just fine. By the fourth ship, construction was basically streamlined.

It WAS minor shakedown issues past NO. Verde was not great, but not terrible.

Your attempt to meme the 12 ship class by the first two or three is disgraceful.

>>32299148
>china does not release anything about their fleet.

>>CHINA IS LITTERALLY PERFECT!!

>>32291956
>Communists make the Workers pay for food with Capital

Holy fuck I love china

>>32299165
Wrong greentext is wrong

>>32299173
Well by all means, lets see them offical shakedown reports, current engineering casualties, and a DOT&E like examination of current programs.

>>32299161
I said that all the Avondale ships are bad..

When did I say anything about the Ingalls ones?

>Shortly after the Navy accepted the USS Somerset in 2014, the hull paint began to peel.

>The Navy determined that Huntington Ingalls Industries, which built the ship at its former Avondale shipyard in New Orleans, didn't adequately prepare the surface before applying the second coat.

>Aug 1/12: Bolted. A new issue involving improperly installed bolts has emerged in the latest ships built by the Avondale shipyard near New Orleans. The Navy’s acceptance of LPD 23 Anchorage is now delayed, and LPD 25 Somerset is also affected.

Certainly going out with a last hurrah. You are really going to defend a yard like Avondale?

>>32299198
>reposing old NO issues as current.

>When did I say anything about the Ingalls ones?

"NG yards are shit and you know it." NG being Northrup assumably.

>. You are really going to defend a yard like Avondale?

Being that they have seemed to unfucked themselves, yes. Ingalls ships are not problem free, you yourself have meantioned one or two.

>>32299204
Mounting bolts. Same issue from the FIC to the last they ever built.

Why are you even trying to defend them?

>>32299217
Mouning bolts stopped being a major problem past the third ship.

>Why are you even trying to defend them?

I could give a fuck about those swamp niggers. The only thing im defending is the truth.

>>32299237
>2011:
>All ships checked and four ships in service at the time from Avondale had some or all bolts replaced.
>2012:
>Bolt issues on Anchorage and Somerset delaying them.

Resolved by 3rd Ship. Pick One.

>>32299255
NOW you move on to issues found by avondale before delivery to the navy.

Sweet jesus.

How wasteful is China when it comes to their military budget?

>>32301597
Singapore ---X---- USA

>>32288471
Why do you post the same threads every single day?

>>32291916
That's not even good trolling. Suicide is without a doubt the best option for you.

>>32299106
>the idea that the US navy having more recent history is somehow relevant today is nonsense.

The fact that you cannot grasp the importance and value of 96 years of continuous experience and doctrinal development speaks volumes about your towering ignorance of the topic.

>I expect mass mutinies to occur in any conflict, much like how blacks were constantly mutinying during ww2/korea/vietnam.

Feel free to cite a source to support this bizarre claim.

>>32299128
Wait a minute... that sigh...

CMANO guy, is that you? Does your scenario still stand?

>>32302084
He has to meet a quota, and is on a schedule.

>>32301597
They dont have 20 million veterans and a cult enabling them leeching away money from the budget.

Average per head cost of the PLA is 12.000 $ per year.

Material costs are a joke because they have China tier mass production of everything.

Unofficial budget is 300 billion $.
Corrected for purchasing power that's about 600 billion $ worth of services and goods for the PLA.

>>32289105
Semi as in it can only go down.

>>32295123
It's not bait. Sure China can build a nice boat when there's no rush, but if they need to start cranking out ships to keep up with the losses they will experience in any sort of real war, their industrial capacity will plummet. I mean, even in peacetime they can barely build fucking escalators or elevators. You really think they take better care of their construction equipment? It's all about to fall over, held together with bubblegum and tape. They spray paint it for propaganda photos, but in reality it's a mess.

Personally I hope Trump stays the course, lets China ramp up their threats, then releases spy video and photos of China being a bunch of incompetent jews. Ships sinking, falling apart, machinery breaking constantly. Look what the UK did to Russia, let them sail their 40 year old carrier over near their island and then snapped photos of it shitting the bed. We're still laughing about that.

>>32288527
I want to rape Laga.

>>32302377
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." After all, right anon?

>>32302443
Nope, you got me for someone else.

>>32302377
USN's own experience in WWII showed how little "Tradition" actually matters.
Ships and planes crewed by young men some of which had never even seen the ocean until they enlisted.
Still destroyed IJN. It comes down to equipment, numbers, intelligence etc a lot more than mere "tradition"

>>32304526
>>32304668

Why are you going on about tradition? I'm referring to experience, and tangentally how it drives doctrine. Are you truly so dimwitted that you don't know the difference between tradition and doctrine?

Your own post >>32304668
illustrates my point perfectly. The USN wasn't following tradition in WW2, because tradition was useless in the face of the rapidly evolving technological face of the war.

However, what the USN was doing was following doctrine, which was flexible enough to be responsive to the changing conditions of the war.

That kind of corporate memory is still with the USN. Regarding naval aviation, the USN has been doing it nonstop since 1921. Even in peacetime, every launch and trap cycle adds another datapoint to the collective experience bank.

That experience bank is something that China simply doesn't have. They are literally a century behind on the learning curve.

>>32305035
Well, I was trying to agree with you here >>32304526 , but I guess I worded it badly.

>>32299139
I'm not surprised they're mad. Couple billion weapons won't do shit, but the leading the power in the world could have effects on international law. Same reason that region of the world argues constantly over whether bumps in the sea are rocks or islands. World powers at point become rules lawyers and the definitions matter more than a war with Taiwan that's never going to happen.

>>32292594
Do they reload? What dies do they use?

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>>32288673
>>32288605
>>32288727
>>32288765
>>32288832
>when someone doesn't know the finer details, such as the history of a subject, and continue arguing with thier lack of knowledge, to avoid being wrong, but end up digging themselves deeper and deeper into misinformation.

File: Type 052C in inclement weather.webm (3MB, 480x284px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 480x284px

>>32299148
Is this a flaw or a feature?

LOL at Hong Kong CIA lackeys trying to shrink it pre-emptively down to Tico size.

Compare: http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/107842/20161210/china-launch-world-s-biggest-guided-missile-destroyer.htm

My guess, 055 will end up a little bigger. Not much, but enough to boast best and biggerest.

>>32305305
My bad. These Chinkposter threads always get my shitposting predisposition dialed up to a hair trigger.

My wife texted me to say good morning, and I sent back 3 paragraphs detailing how she had no proof. I think I need to put the internet away for a while.

>>32288485
kek

>>32306326
>My wife texted me to say good morning

Proofs of this?

If not, your wife does not exist

Wang Qishan,the second most powerful man of China,says "Xi Jinping is God"

China: Xi Jinping becomes “core leader”
http://chinaworker.info/2016/12/05/13709/
The concept of “core leader” originated with Deng Xiaoping, who used it in the early 1990s to describe Jiang Zemin as a way to bolster Jiang’s authority at a time of great uncertainty and instability within the regime following the 1989 Beijing massacre. With Xi acquiring this mantle, a People’s Daily editorial declared, “The party centre and the whole party must have a core.” There is a “dire need for strong leadership” said a headline in the ultra-nationalist Global Times, another CCP organ, quoting an ‘expert’ from the Research Centre for Government Integrity Building.

>China's second most powerful man warns of dissent and corruption in the Communist Party
http://qz.com/851218/wang-qishan-chinas-second-most-powerful-man-warns-of-dissent-and-systematic-corruption-inside-the-communist-party/

China orders officials to stop believing in ghosts and ghouls… and stick to Marx and Lenin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/02/china-orders-officials-stop-believing-ghosts-ghouls-stick-marx/

>Call me comrade ... party requires members to resurrect Maoist term to signal equality
Outdated greeting seen by analysts as a distraction and unworkable in today’s world

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/2045455/call-me-comrade-party-requires-members-resurrect-maoist-term-signal

>Xi Jinping is Now Officially a Communist 'God'
http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/104766/20161028/xi-jinping-now-officially-communist-god.htm

>We should not worship Mao as a god, says China's president
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10538324/We-should-not-worship-Mao-as-a-god-says-Chinas-president.html

>Mao Zedong was no god, says Xi Jinping
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1390533/mao-zedong-was-no-god-says-xi-jinping-delicate-balancing-act

>>32307082
China Preparing For War? Chinese President Xi Jinping Wants World's Largest Military To Modernize

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-preparing-war-chinese-president-xi-jinping-wants-worlds-largest-military-2454715

> China denies shooting down Myanmar fighter jet

The reports quoted some analysts claiming that the PLA artillery fired warning shots at Myanmar jets that entered China's airspace and that the fleeing jet accidentally hit the shells, which led to its crash, state run Global Times reported.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/china-denies-shooting-down-myanmar-fighter-jet/articleshow/55847660.cms

>China should build more nuclear arms to prepare for Trump: Chinese newspaper Global Times

In the editorial, the Global Times said: "We need to get better prepared militarily regarding the Taiwan question to ensure that those who advocate Taiwan's independence will be punished, and take precautions in case of US provocations in the South China Sea

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/china-should-build-more-nuclear-arms-to-prepare-for-trump-chinese-newspaper-global-times/articleshow/55870063.cms

>British fighters to overfly South China Sea; carriers in Pacific after 2020: envoy

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-southchinasea-fighters-idUSKBN13R00D

>>32307123
>China Military official criticizes JASDF F-15J launch decoy flares at Chinese military aircraft

Did Chinese Jet Fighters "Locked on" F-15J?
China Military official criticized what F-15J launched decoy flares

Flare (countermeasure)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flare_(countermeasure)

>China criticizes Japan for interfering with air mission
https://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/china-criticizes-japan-for-interfering-with-air-mission

Related News?
>China denies shooting down Myanmar fighter jet
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/china-denies-shooting-down-myanmar-fighter-jet/articleshow/55847660.cms

>Marine Corps F/A-18 jet crashes near Japan, search and rescue under way
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/07/f-18-crashes-near-japan-search-and-rescue-underway.html

>US Military Plane Crash In Japan: AV8B Harrier II Falls Into Sea Off Okinawa
http://www.ibtimes.com/us-military-plane-crash-japan-av8b-harrier-ii-falls-sea-okinawa-2420347

>>32307141
>China flies nuclear-capable bomber in South China Sea after Trump Taiwan call, US officials say
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/12/09/china-flies-nuclear-capable-bomber-in-south-china-sea-after-trump-taiwan-call-us-officials-say.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/south-china-sea-conflict-vietnam-dredging-work-prompts-us-warnings-fears-over-chinas-2457881

>South China Sea: Vietnam prepares for dangerous days ahead as the country's fisheries clash with Chinese authorities
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-09/south-china-sea-vietnam-prepares-for-dangerous-days-ahead/8101192

>China air force conducts long-range drills near disputed South China Sea, Taiwan says
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/china-air-force-conducts-long-range-drills-near-disputed-waterways-says-taiwan-1595831

>Japanese, Chinese military aircraft engage in latest tit-for-tat moves in airspace above Western Pacific
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/12/11/national/japanese-chinese-military-aircraft-engage-latest-tit-tat-move-airspace-western-pacific/

>>32307157
>China Warns UK against Meddling in South China Sea with Planned Air and Naval Patrols
http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/107380/20161204/china-warns-united-kingdom-against-conducting-air-naval-patrols-south.htm

China:Xi Jinping asks for 'absolute loyalty' from China Universities

>China Universities must Become Communist Party Hubs, President Xi Jinping says:
http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/107763/20161209/china-president-xi-jinping-academics-china-communist-party.htm

>>32307177
>China to ban news websites from using stories gleaned from social media
Beijing’s internet regulator says online media cannot report any news taken from social media sites without approval
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/04/china-to-ban-news-websites-from-using-stories-gleaned-from-social-media

>Independent: China set to ban all foreign media from publishing online
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-set-to-ban-all-foreign-media-from-publishing-online-a6883366.html

>NYT: New Chinese Rules on Foreign Firms’ Online Content
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/20/business/media/new-chinese-rules-on-foreign-firms-online-content.html

>Variety: China Unveils Tough Controls on Foreign Media Activities
http://variety.com/2016/biz/asia/china-controls-foreign-media-activities-1201711580/

>Xi Jinping asks for 'absolute loyalty' from Chinese state media
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/xi-jinping-tours-chinas-top-state-media-outlets-to-boost-loyalty

File: god-of-war-guan-yu-statue-jingzhou-china-6[1].jpg (80KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

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China builds giant statue of Guan Yu - God of War.

America meanwhile abandons attempt to build statues of war legend Sherman, due to top university professors saying it is "too white"

Chinese are eternal holy victim, China always can attack neighbours what if China can but Neighbours should not attack Chinese people.
Chinese are chosen one.

>>32307191
This is expected. Social Media breeds Fake News. It is controlled by the Jews. Russia expelled US NGOs because of the same reason.

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>>32307507
Chinese are always victim.
China is peaceful people.
we don't want war.
Neighbours provokes China.
Neighbours want the war against China.
what if China did nothing.
China is pacifist victim.
shame on you neghbours.
kek.

>>32302084
he gets an extra ration of rice for it

Impressive

Truly China knows how to defend the motherland. America's bullying tactics will not win against China's superior defense. The indigenous Chinese Research and Development has shown that China has the brains, the brawns and the honor to lead the world into the next century.

>>32307741
one china is delusion

>>32307784
>human vagina is just mirage
>commissar penis is true love

fucking slopes can't into capitalism OR shipbuilding.

http://worldmaritimenews.com/archives/168202/mingde-heavy-declares-bankruptcy/

>>32298641
>Sea trials, feedback, modifications.

Note your double standards.

>>32298735
>By the metric that the recent Burke class ships don't even carry Harpoon missiles anymore.

SM-2, SM-6 and Tomahawks say hi.

>>32299106
>crimea is all ethnically russian
>And ukraine is a super poor shitty country that had just been taken over via a western backed coup.

You need to stop getting all of your news from Russian state media.

File: 626260-weinstein-and-chapman.jpg (44KB, 650x366px) Image search: [Google]

44KB, 650x366px

>>32307995

china is more capitalist than the us. Chinese shipyard uncompetitive, government lets it fail, us shipyard uncompetitive, congressman spend billions bailing it out to save union job. Which country is communist again?

>>32306578
>your wife does not exist

Which you cannot prove, since you can't prove a negative.

Checkmate, atheists.

Yes! I win the internet yet again.

>>32308398
So no anti-ship weapons