Were WW2 battles really like the final battle in saving private ryan?

>>32259121
No.

Yes.

>>32259121
Is real life like movies?

No.

>>32259121
Take that scene, multiply the amount of shit going on by at least 50 along with associated chaos, and then take out where they won.

Either friendly air comes in before that fight and the troops hold the line from a now disorganized force, or they come in after the Germans steamrolled them all to death.

Deus ex machina is such a shit writing mechanic.

>>32259121
Any force, German or American, assaulting into a heavily prepared position like that would probably have held or withdrawn some to assess their opposition, plan an assault and execute.

In that last battle, the Germans acted extremely stupidly overall. Even if they were too far into the city before being engaged to withdraw, they thoroughly failed to properly scout and screen their advance.

This isn't to say many WWII engagements didn't happen in roughly similar ways, as people do screw the pooch and both sides had shitty commanders at all levels, but both sides generally managed assaulting a town much more effectively.

>>32259121
>Sniper hanging out a church window manages to quickscope 10+ guys wihtout anyone seeing him

Yeah dude its realistic

>>32259196
Punctuation Mother Fucker. A tank takes out the tower iirc.

Why did the tanks just drive down a narrow street in single file?

>>32259169

>I have never been in combat: the post

In real life a few shots would have rang out, the Germans might have taken a few casualties before immediately withdrawing and sending a screening force in to recon the village. In fact a good commander would have reconed the village before sending tanks in.

>>32259262
>Why did the tanks just drive down a narrow street in single file?
How else do you advance an armor column up a ruble-choked street but in multiple single file columns?

Where they fucked up was not dismounting their infantry and getting them well in front of the armor to screen and flush out ambush positions.

>>32259121
Shit american propaganda movie.

The Germans wouldve fucked them up if it was real

>>32259353

Elite Waffen SS troops with armor would have steamrolled any US unit.

>>32259378
exactly

>>32259378
Were the SS that experienced that they could fuck up Rangers and Airborne?

Genuinely asking btw, I've seen Fury and that movie would lead me to believe the SS are a laughingstock of retards.

>>32259353
>>32259378
>>32259385

Samefag

>>32259412
Fury is a trash propaganda jewish fueled movie.

>>32259417
>implying SS couldnt wipe the floor with amerishits

>>32259412
>Is it that way in real life?
>Because I've seen a different movie to compare to this movie

The under 20 crowd is fucking lost. Games over man.

>>32259121
T34 dressed up like Tiger
Fucking disgusting

>>32259412
SS were very good fighters but comparing two elite fighting forces to eachother is always going to be flawed so you can't really compare Rangers to SS.

>>32259412

SS were basically guys that trained all their lives for combat and were ideologically motivated to the extreme, even knowing an SS unit was in the area would demoralize allied troops.

>>32259412
The German soldiers at the beginning of the war in Europe were OP. A tiny group of SS with some hitler youth held up the entire British Army at Caen for two weeks.

>>32259433
>>32259440
>>32259460
I gave /k/ to much credit, I guess you guys really are just retards who don't know jack shit other than how to be furfags and retards.

>>32259456
Did someone describe a t34 over the phone to you or something? T34's had sloped armor you dip

>>32259456

All those actors dressed up as WW2 soldiers
Fucking disgusting

Just use the real thing gawd.

>>32259476
not an argument

>>32259476
You're forgetting Interwebs Law #4:
>The dumbest person in the thread will ALWAYS post the most and post the most emphatically

>>32259433
Please tell me the casualty rates for SS troops, they would lose more than half of their divisions during an assault, the Germans were good, but don't make them out to be gods, against a properly armed and supplied opponent, they were more than stoppable

>>32259491
read you fuckin retard

>>32259491
http://9thsspanzer.com/VandE/Tiger.html
Not him and I think he is a faggot, but you're retarded

>>32259542
Well fuck me for not knowing how every movie prop was made

Wehraboos please leave.

>>32259476
So you're stupid. Posted a stupid ass question, and got BTFO. Somehow somethings wrong with everyone else?

Go and take your retard friend >>32259509 thats probably (You) with you.

>>32259476
Go back to where you came from faggot.

redditors arent welcome here

Over time the the SS slowly lost the quality they had early on in the war. Volksduetsch began to fill the ranks and training was not as good as the early days. The units were certainly fanatical to a good degree and were always well equipped, but the lack of good recruits had crippled them by the war's end.

>>32259187
>they thoroughly failed to properly scout and screen their advance.
I kind of always chalked it up to them attempting to withdraw and redeploy else where well behind the front line. Like they were just moving to a different place and didn't expect to see anything remotely resembling a real resistance so far back. Rewatching about 5 minutes of the final scene sort of makes me think that because it appears they're just moving through. They did have infantry go ahead of the tanks on foot though. Not very far ahead, but it's something.
>>32259187
>but both sides generally managed assaulting a town much more effectively
That's the thing though, were they assaulting the town?
I haven't watch the movie in its entirety for a few years now, but I don't recall anything indicating that the Germans knew of them being there or even coming to secure the bridge that the Americans were defending.

>>32259636
>I haven't watch the movie in its entirety for a few years now, but I don't recall anything indicating that the Germans knew of them being there or even coming to secure the bridge that the Americans were defending.
They had already lost a half-track full of scouts earlier in the day just outside the town. Remember? That's where they actually meet Ryan for the first time. The advancing forces would have rolled right by the burned out track. That should have clued them SOMETHING was going on.

>>32259636
>>32259672
Furthermore, their entire purpose of going there was not to pass through but to seize and control that bridge, one of the few remaining intact. As they didn't have units on scene, you would think they would employ at least some caution when approaching such an important strategic objective.

>>32259412
People let politics and morality fuck up the comparisons. The SS where absolute monsters and enemies of humanity, but most modern ways of thinking.

They where also an elite fighting force and some of the biggest bad asses who ever lived.

But in this ages a >feels we can't accept both being true at the same time, so the evil racists must also be big fat dumb head bullies that can't really fight the glorious good guys!

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>>32259378
Yeah so elite. Burning down villages and slaughtering people who weren't even near any battlefield is so elite of them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur-Glane_massacre

>>32259672
I remember that scene, but I thought it was further outside the town.

>>32259717
>but I thought it was further outside the town.
They don't really say one way or the other. But from that scene to the end, they don't overnight. It's all the same day. And they specifically mention the half-track was an advance party for the German force coming up the road.

So, if it was far out of town, they would have had to hump 5+ miles, get in, have their emotional discussion, draw up a defense plan, set their traps and positions, fight the final defensive action and then finally end the movie. It's doable, but not likely, especially when the light indicates it's mid-late morning when they first blow the half track, not first light.

And if they'd blown the half-track within 5 miles of the town on a direct advance line to the town for the German forces (remember, advance party), that should have definitely been a tip off for them, at least made them suspicious and at the very fucking least required that they hold there, dispatch another, stronger scouting party and advance at a more cautious pace.

A priori ergo the Germans acted like complete idiots. I mean, it's a great movie but it's just a movie, not an historical treatise of military tactics in WWII. Though I will say the later Spielberg/Hanks/Ambrose effort of Band of Brothers was overall excellent in historical accuracy, especially for a television show.

Anything beyond the beach action in SPR is rage inducing fantasy.

>>32259709
>The SS where absolute monsters and enemies of humanity
Underage pls. SS units varied widely in their behavior. SS Einsatszgruppen were definitely monsters. Some were just ordinary military units under a separate COC. Some Heer units committed atrocities too.

>>32259865
Yeah you can point out exceptions in every group. But I myself judge the SS as a whole, the militant wing of the Nazi party and true believers in everything from National Socialism to the Final Solution.

If you want to get into all the different types of the SS that's a whole nother discussion.

>>32259865
>>32259709
>They where also an elite fighting force
Another misconception. ~SOME~ SS units were elite fighting forces. Many of them were hastily slapped-together units that performed terribly.

>>32259636
I actually always assumed it was the scouting force they where fighting.

>>32259711
So if you like Mausers, are you a wehraboo?

>>32259899
See
>>32259891

I'm speaking of the SS in broad terms, not nit picking every different unit under the SS banner as a different entity and even bringing up by the end of the war when Germany was throwing every fucking warm body they could get into a uniform and screaming charge.

>>32259433
Um, the Americans did kinda win, duh.

>>32259839

>Omaha beach had bunkers 50 feet from the shoreline
>landing craft got hit by accurate machine gun fire the second the ramp was lowered
>machine gun emplacements were enormous concrete structures 200 feet high

Not even close, kiddo.

>>32259936
Uhh the soviets did most of the work but anyway.

Read a history book

>>32259412
The SS depicted in Fury are leftovers, cripples, children, and cowards. All their men are dead. You missed the point of all that "Hitler has already lost but we have to keep fighting the Germans because they refuse to stay down" dialogue.

>>32259476
that right there aint /k/

That's a /pol/ false flag.

Is /k/ hating American WW2 small arms a new thing? Always shitting on the Thompson, Garand, sometimes the Grease Gun, 1911 for being popular and occasionally the Carbine for being underpowered.

>>32259926
>>32259711
>>32259709
SS forces were politically reliable, that's the reason they got the newest shit and had the jobs (read:mass murdering) given to them, not because they were super awesome soldiers.

>>32259960
I did, it told me most of their equipment was supplied by the Americans and that they killed their own people (both military and civilians) after they were repatriated for being cowards to the Motherland.

>>32259558
any dipshit can plainly see thats a T34 dressed up as a Tiger with its running gear and turret all mongoloid forward on the hull

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>>32259960
>Uhh the soviets did most of the work but anyway.
>Read a history book
This shit again. Jesus.

Between Lend-Lease,
>inb4 LL did nothing with Zhukov quote: “Today [1963] some say the Allies didn’t really help us…But listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us material without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war.”
the vast bulk and cream of the Luftwaffe being destroyed over France and Germany (see pic related) and the vast amount of manufacturing, transportation and logistics capacity which was affected by the strategic bombing campaign, anyone who claims "the Soviets did most of the work" is a complete fucking retard.

Stop falling for 1950's era Soviet memes, dipshit. The Allies didn't win the war by themselves by any means, but neither did they contribute nothing to the outcome, even considering JUST the ETO.

>>32259711
I'm kind of at level 4 and recognize that Einsatzgruppen were an elite anti-partisan unit that killed jews and gypsies on the side

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>go to (((wikipedia))) to read about actions and deployments of various German units in WW2
>3/4ths of the page is detailing the various atrocities they committed by putting people in specially built roller coasters that flung people into giant furnaces

>>32260097
>some people lie about or exaggerate well documented historical events, therefore none of these events ever happened

That's some fantastic fucking logic you got there.

>>32260140

Don't argue with that thing, it is a waste of time.

>SS Units train their whole lives

>Get embarrassed by abunch of draftees who volunteer to jump from a plane
>Get embarrassed by soviet hordes of farmers armed with bricks, pikes, and rifles
>Get embarrassed by slick skinned Greeks
>Get embarrassed by the entire commonwealth just cause they bombed during tea time
>SS gets tired of getting embarrassed by world, massacres women, children, and POW
>SS immediately regrets decision to sperg out when US shoots SS POW on spot and USSR literally ruins the Aryan gene pool in Rhineland and Balkans

Embarrassing fighting force you have there

>>32260055
k

>>32260039
And this is what I'm talking about.

Nothing you said is untrue. But at the same time, nothing you said discounts them as a fighting force. The SS did horrible things to defenseless people. They also did horrible, bad ass things to very well defended people.

>>32260247
Like at Castle Itter?

Full company with artillery couldn't even take down a hodgepodge mix of cut off American, German and French soldiers

>>32259311
This. Tanks were never supposed to lead the attack.

>>32261571

That was at the end of the war when the SS was old men, walking wounded, and little kids. With no supplies or morale and everything going to shit around them. Like literally 3 days before the war ended in europe.

They just didnt care. The war was over, they lost. They knew every order was futile so there was no effort other than to do enough just to remain alive to see peacetime again. Entire divisions were fleeing west and surrendering, berlin was being raped figuratively and literally, and all lines of supply, communication, and command were destroyed. Im sure elements of that force slipped off and deserted any chance they got. The fact that germans were helping the defenders fight off other germans really illustates how fucked the german military was by this stage.

If that occured early in the war, it would be an entirely different story. Castle itter is a fucking retarded comparison to make.

>>32259378
>>32259412
wheraboo lies. Paratroopers and Rangers were, by modern day standards, special forces. The SS wasn't even a branch of the German Heer, it was a paramilitary of fanatics and criminals. By the end of the war, it was mostly madmen and criminals, but even at the American entry the SS was still just a well-armed joke.

>>32259491
That is a fucking T34 you test, Fury is literally the only movie with a legit Tiger.

>>32259476
This

Children with bolt action rifles aren't "muh elite fighting force that trained all their lives"

>>32259709
>>32259412
>>32259378
*cough commandos cough*

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>>32259378
xd

>>32262842
This. So many damn pol fanatics who don't know what the hell they are talking about.

>>32259460
>>32259471

>t. niggers who know nothing

The Waffen SS had a big variance in combat ability and motivation from unit to unit, some were more like a German Foreign Legion, with scandinavians, arabs, french, and others who got sent out to fuck up partisans in occupied france and yugoslavia, and others were almost all bodyguards and security forces until being sent out for combat.

Just because they got the lion's share of supplies and resources since they were the armed wing of the party doesn't necessarily mean they were better in a fight.

>>32259978
>mah /pol/ bogeyman

Oh boy another "hurr durr SS weren't good at all! they were worse than wehrmacht XD! they were all criminals and terrible at war!"

Yes, I get it. You're all great historians and all, but what you overlook is that the SS was comprised of A. Germans or B. Non-Germans.

The German SS were elites and were trained as elites. They were fielded as advisors and specialists and had more combat experience *ELITE* compared to the average Wehrmacht fighter.


Drown in your boyfriends cum if you've ever posted,'get out /pol/!' you're a fucking faggot and you know it.

Only thing worse than /pol/ shitposting is the /pol/ boogeyman posters.

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How about Hacksaw Ridge?

I always felt Pacific War movies were easier to cover considering the Japanese medieval level of combat in camparison to the German strategy and tactics

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>history major
>licensed armorer and a rare breed of European gun nut
>come to this thread expecting to type out several very large and detailed responses
>read the first 20 or so replies

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what the fuck is this thread
It's full of so much whereaboo disinfo I don't even know where to begin.

SS units performed no better and often worse than Wehrmacht units. This is despite them receiving the lion's share of the best and newest weapons and supplies. SS units were larger on average than Wehrmacht units and received far more support.

Despite this SS units very often were destroyed or stopped in their tracks by smaller and far less well equipped Allied units.
Now don't get me wrong, there were plenty of "elite" SS units, but no more, and frankly less than there were elite and battle hardened Wehrmacht units, and in the same turn, elite and battle hardened Allied units. The SS was a political organization first and foremost, made up of the most die hard, and ultimately suicidal, Nazi believers. While the units formed pre war who fought and learned from the onset how to fight ended up as crack troops fit for any battlefield most of the later SS units were trash reservist tier units at best.

But again, all of the SS's success came with the favor of Hitler first and foremost. They got all the best and newest tanks and small arms and the most artillery support and supplies, and it's a very widely covered fact that the Nazis used the SS as much as a propaganda machine as a military force. Very often losses were under reported while casualties inflicted were over reported, or an entire tank battalion's kills would be attributed to a single "Tiger Ace" despite him maybe accounting for 10% of the actual kills, not to mention suspect methods of claiming kills anyways.

At the end of the day the SS was made up of politically motivated men. Their battle prowess was directly tied to how much battle they had actually seen, and nothing inherent about being Germans or Nazis or die hard fanatics made them any better than the other guy's nationalities or political affiliation or grit.
Every nation had crack units, every nation had trash units. Some more than others,

>>32259475
>A tiny group of SS with some hitler youth held up the entire British Army at Caen for two weeks
Seriously what?

Wasn't Caen the greatest the concentration of German armor in Normandy?

>>32264805
Don't reply to bait. Or idiots.
It was hard but I managed to avoid replying.

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>>32264745
>The German SS were elites and were trained as elites. They were fielded as advisors and specialists and had more combat experience *ELITE* compared to the average Wehrmacht fighter.

Except you couldn't be more wrong. The common misconception about Germans in WWII is that they were tactical geniuses and had more experience, and there is some truth to that. The biggest reason the Germans did as well as they did in the invasion of France, Poland, and the early days of Russia was due to their Blitzkrieg tactics in tanks, refined by experience gained in the Spanish civil war. HOWEVER, almost ALL of the fighting done, with little exception, was either the Luftwaffe or Heer/Wehrmacht. The SS had no experience prior to WWII, and even then, the majority of units were, as stated above, criminals and fanatics. If you honestly believe that the majority of the SS were highly-trained (false, children and elderly were conscripted and handed a Kar98K) highly-experienced (see above) and "elite", then you are absolutely and objectively wrong.

tfw germans lost the war and wheraboos still like to pretend that they were better :^)

Also, fuck off and get out /pol/. If it's so much better then go back to your nazi echo chamber and enjoy your incorrect opinions

Christ. I've just read one book by a former SS soldier but I feel like a well read expert compared to the anti-SS propaganda in this thread.

"Ideological fanatics raised their whole lives" becomes "got a two week course in racial theory in berlin, four months of training by wehrmacht and then got sent to ukraine"

"Got the best and newest equipment" becomes "We started getting panthers and tigers months after the army"

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>>32264812
>Echo chamber
>Coming from a bunch of people screaming about their echo chamber being entered calling everyone /pol/

/k/ has no fucking introspective abilities it is fucking ridiculous. Just a bunch of self-absorbed furry cunts. I mean treadhead and other threads which show of equipment, vehicles and gear are awesome. But there's no fucking point in even remotely trying to have a discussion on this board about military politics, it'll devolve into so much dicksucking and american bravado it is pathetic.

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>>32259476
Now this is projecting

>>32264756
Obviously no WWII movie will ever be completely accurate, there were some inaccuracies in the film, but not too bad since it was mostly focused on the character than the battle.

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>>32264801
The best equipped and the most feared, but would usually let their pride overshadow their strategy.

>>32264895
Just because we're not nazis doesn't mean that it's an echo chamber. /k/ is (generally speaking a very diverse board). Eurocucks, slavs, and rednecks are all over this board, with the common interest of firearms. When you bring up something like "hurr durr the SS were pretty elite" and then get BTFO for being objectively wrong doesn't mean that /k/ is an echo chamber, it means that you're a retard.

>>32259378
BWAHAHAHAHA

Only really elite part of the german war machine was the propaganda department. Since that fucker is still working as intented

>>32264954
I'm sure, considering you exploded out of nowhere against your opponent that they're /pol/ and screamed like a crying frog at someone with a different opnion entering the argument. 4chan is diverse both /pol/ and /k/ probably share the same diversity. It doesn't help you're pinning everything on me trying to make me out as the guy who was talking about the SS doesn't help your end.

This board is a echochamber, and your argument with the other fellow is just sprinkles on the shitcake. Try to make a thread which isn't glorifying the west and you'll find some of the most cancerous shit eve.

Syria threads - Usually turns into uneducated rambling about american moral superiority, mentoning age old reports in a five year war, literal fucking islamist supportive posters and pretty much 95% Russian/Syria Bashing

[Inser non nato foreign country here] - Pretty much some people who've probably heard nothing else then banter in their own military branches or just general conjecture think they know jack shit about a foreign army, you'll only ever find informative, detailed and interesting threads about russian or chinese equipment via treadhead or threads actually thoroughly describing attributes of their equipment, much like treadhead.

Anything related to the right to bear arms, or american politics in relation to the military or just /k/ related topics? Expect mostly liberal posts with any dissent being labelled as /pol/. It's pretty much as fucking spooked as /pol/'s threads about ctr. I actually find it amusing because as a result of how much I crossboard all over the site I see two angles of shitfest, and usually it's just two morons accusing each other of things for the validity of their own argument.

>>32265001
what the hell are you even on about?

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>>32265018
I'm saying that this board does have an echochamber and it is not an exception to the rule. There's plenty of bullshit on here which stops threads from being enjoyable or digestable. Namely a lot of the pro-american shilling which derails any thread which isn't spewing out tons of information before hand.

>>32265001
>projecting
>An objective and cogent point is now screaming and crying

Then go back to /pol/, literally nobody wants you here and if you hate it so much then fuck off

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>>32265034
>Trying to argue objectivity in an discussion purely based of subjective viewponts and fancy
You know very wellk I was equating your behaviour of boogymannery to crying and screaming. Which you're doing now. Thanks for basically proving my point ya dumb yank.

>>32262842
>>32263095

Sadly Wheraboos are a great cancer. Any "aboo" is really, but Wheraboos are particular shit.

>>32265046
believe it or not I'm actually from japan, but ok.

There was no subjectivity in the argument I made. The SS were not involved in the Spanish Civil War. Fact. Therefore, the claim of "experience" was false. That cannot be misconstrued as subjective. Read a fucking book.

Oddly enough, you equating my behaviour of boogymannery to crying and screaming IS subjective. So basically, you are wrong, you are a hypocrite, and you are a retard.

Here, I'll even link you
>>>>/pol/

Cya fucker, return to your kind

>>32265076
>I'm from japan
Hello english teacher or marine.

I'm a hypocrite?
What? I've never claimed my arguments were not more then subjective.
You are still basically proving my point, you're shitting your pants and referring me to /pol/ when my argument is basically just telling you not to scream like an idiot and call everyone /pol/ack in defense. I still find it amusing that you're trying to pin this previous argument you had with another poster onto me to make your post more valid. I wasn't even the poster arguing the superiority of the SS. I'm the post arguing that it is impossible to talk about anything other then the west in a postive light.

>>32262842
>By the end of the war, it was mostly madmen and criminals

Especially towards the end of the war this statement is false.
In the very beginning when it was only volunteers, maybe. But even among these volunteers were many former Wehrmacht soldiers and officers, but many others lacked training.

During mid war you had the first 8-10 divisions (Leibstandarte, das Reich.. etc) which were mainly formed from German recruits and volunteers from western or northern countries and which got the best equippment. These were truly "Elite". Well trained and well equipped and highly motivated.
Most of the other divisions (there were some decent ones among them) were "volunteers" from eastern countries. They often lacked training and/or equippment and/or motivation. Some performed decently in some battles but they still lacked the heavy gear to really shine. Others were really just more than groups of russian/ukrainian/belarus thugs plundering villages.

Then 1944 volunteer numbers got lower and lower (and now about your statement) and Himmler managed to convince Hitler that the SS needs access to the wehrmacht recruitment pool. From this point on, SS divisions got replacements from the regular german conscription pool. And not only that, they were allowed to pick first. So the best conscripts were sent to the SS from that year. So late war SS was just as late war Wehrmacht. Same training, same age etc.

The only "criminals" (war crimes commited during the war excluded) were the Dirlewanger Sturmbrigade. This unit was made up from ex-convicts. But it was rather small and only towards the end of the war it got re-shaped into a proper division, but never reached division-size.

The "SS = best of the best"-meme just comes from Western history books and i assume its because the western allies mainly faced the "good" SS units. During Normandy and Bulge it was these SS tank divisions that caused trouble, so that image stuck.

>>32264895
>it'll devolve into so much dicksucking and american bravado it is pathetic
>75% of threads posts are "SS THE BEST. NAZI GERMANY STRONGEST. ALLIES WERE SHIT" Wheraboos

Guess calling them out is American Bravado huh? Fuck off

>WAAAH THEY DISAGREE WITH MY WHERABOO FANATICISM, YOUR INTROSPECTIVE ABILITIES ARE SHIT

t. you Wheraboo #1571561

>>32259533
>they would lose more than half of their divisions during an assault

This never happened and SS losses over the whole war were comparable with other german units and that despite the fact that they were shifted around at the front lines from hotspot to hotspot and usually saw way more action than a regular Heer unit.

What you probably think about is their pretty high losses in 1939 and 1940 when their newly formed units saw their baptism in fire and in 1944 when the 12th SS division acted in a similar way in Normandy. But again, that was their very first real combat. They lacked experience. Most of the time SS units didn't attack just head on.

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>>32265108
>You're a fucking wehraboo if you disagree with me!
>But I hate when people generalize and title me inappropiately

You're still fucking stuck that I'm some kind of wehraboo. I'm just some random nigger calling out /k/ for being just as much as an echo-chamber, and keep in my post about american bravado was talking about /k/ overall, in many threads. Not this one alone. You're pratically just grasping at straws nigger, just calm the fuck down and realize not everyone is out to hurt you and be EXACTLY LIKE /POL/ CALLING EVERYONE YOU DISAGREE WITH X BOOGYMAN

>>32259865
>Underage pls. SS units varied widely in their behavior. SS Einsatszgruppen were definitely monsters.

Underage pls.

Some men of the Einsatzgruppen asked to get sent to the front lines because they hated that job. Many just did it because they felt it as their duty somehow.
There are even reports from the baltic states when SS men were surprised how brutal and "efficient" the population would act against the jews among them when they heard a german unit was in the vicinity.

>>32265092
Believe it or not I actually am in the US for Uni, majoring in English

I have grounds to assume you're from /pol/, because you're the knight in shining armor trying to say that /pol/ isn't an echo chamber.

It wasn't even a part of my argument, just an afterthought, and yet you're going on an autistic rant trying to say that everyone on /k/ has the same opinion.

There's 2 threads up about Russia's apparent military prowess, a Australian circlejerk, a proguns British thread up right now, and one bashing the rifle of choice for the west, the AR. The only thread about the US specifically is whining about the ATF.

>>32260191
>and USSR literally ruins the Aryan gene pool in Rhineland

What are you even talking about?

>>32261571
That is an isolated incident and reports about it hardly shed light about the SS unit that was tasked to attack the Castle.
We know literally nothing about their motivation.
Yes, their officers wanted to take the castle. (Or maybe they just got an order to do it from higher up as well).
We know nothing about how motivated that SS unit was when they heard they had to fight against fellow germans but we have to assume this plays a huge role.

>>32265122
Name one statement I made that is grasping at straws. Are you denying every other post isn't "SS WERE THE ELITE OF THE ELITE THEY ARE DA BES"? Then you proceed to call out ONLY THE AMERICAN side on being "non-introspective" when this thread is "Wheraboo the thread HD"? Do you even know what "Grasping at straws" means?

We're all random niggers here, as I am assume by "you're still stuck" you think I am someone else, but that was my first post. Every other post from OP down to yours was, again, "SS WAS DA BES". Don't try to throw the "I mean X overall!" crap when you get called at for making a BS statement.

>>32265127
I'm saying both your board and /pol/ have the same level of echo-chamber mannerism just by looking at any plain thread on this website. I'm not acting like a white knight you know very well that's the fact. At this point you're no more different then a /pol/ack calling someone a jew because you've fit his general description of what makes a jew.

If you're trying to pretend that there isn't an endless stream of threads being derailed by pro-american posting you'd be kidding yourself. I browse this board as well, and they're quite regular.

>Australian and British gun threads
They're common, and you aren't going to find most bullshit there because it isn't really beyond local politics.

>Russia's apparent military prowess
Nigger could you be more transparent

>One thread bashing the AR
That is certainly a big problem. Not that the gun isn't circlejerked over and has a fucking general.

>>32265140
There is as much praise of the SS as there is people praising the west in this thread. I've called out /k/ in general for not having any skills in self awareness and introspection. At this point you're taking my argument way out of proportion for some kind of validity.

>Don't try to correct my fallacious argument otherwise x
Nigger please. That's a fucking pathetic stance.

>>32264888
You always have to consider the actual Division and the year when this guy was drafted or volunteered.

In 1939 and 1940 a Soldier of the Leibstandarte or Totenkopf was very "well" educated when it comes to nazi propaganda and stuff like that. Simply because they had years of time before the war to do that.
They also did lots and lots of sports compared to real military training like tactics.

Obviously that changed during the war when recruits were needed in the front units fast and when they realized that tactics are important to prevent losses.

>>32265150
It doesn't help that I've been referred to /pol/ multiple times, which practically just contributes to my argument that /k/ is just as much of a echo-chamber as /pol/ so I find this argument is just pointless in the end because inadvertedly you're just making yourself an example of my argument.

>>32264972
You can blame western historians for that image actually. In the years after the war (and still) they were obsessed by the SS.

>>32265150
And the more leveled headed people in the thread are saying the SS performed exactly as you would expect a unit to perform based on experience.

The SS units that were battle hardened were good, just like any other battle hardened unit, while the ones that were not were bad, just like any other untested, poorly trained, poorly equipped unit would perform.
Why do you ignore this so you can cry about Nazi persecution?

>>32265161
You're making it out that I ignored that. Do I have to repeat myself in every post that I'm arguing you people have an inherent echo chamber? I'm not crying about "Nazi persecution" I'm making a valid point that you're referring to anyone who disagrees with you, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE POST ISN'T EVEN TALKING ABOUT NAZIS IN GENERAL is a /pol/ack. The level of retardation you are pulling off here is ridiculous.

>>32265076
>The SS were not involved in the Spanish Civil War. Fact. Therefore, the claim of "experience" was false.


Not entirely true Anon.
Certainly, the SS as an actual unit wasn't involved, but some Officers and individual soldiers were. Keep in mind that the whole Legion Condor was made up from Volunteers.
There have been men among them who later joined SS units.
Also keep in mind that the Legion Condor was extremely tiny and the experience boost from that "adventure" went mostly towards the industry in itself, the Luftwaffe and the highest officers and doctrine and not to actual Wehrmacht units. So overall the SS benefited from Spain as much as the Wehrmacht did.

Funnily enough, the leader of one of the worst SS units, Oskar Dirlewanger, served in Spain and was highly decorated for his bravery there.

>>32265161
literally this. There is nothing more to say about this matter. Discussing history and military topics on /k/ gets really tiresome in times.

>>32265178
You're confusing me for a different anon, I'm merely chiming in that you are calling this place an echo chamber while only addressing specific types of posts.

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>>32265208
My error, the lack of IDs makes it an issue to track who's talking to me. I understand where you are coming from. I just have a inherent dislike for intellectual dishonesty and a fair amount of boards on the site are guilty of this issue. I'm aware of there being outliers, but let's be completely honest, if I were to apply the same "Rational" perspective towards /pol/ and try to convince them that there are outliers, and not every poster is represented by a stereotype, you'd know very well what that would turn out like. It isn't even the disrespect towards /pol/ which pisses me of. It's the same nature of people reacting to outspoken opinions in reality without actually considering what errors they've made in judgement.

Being a crossboarder, or even going over to other chans gives me altnerate perspectives, so I'll be honest when I see people saying just plain bullshit I like to cal it out. But most of the times it is vain so I just don't post unless I'm joking around or just entertaining myself in general

>>32265154
>You always have to consider the actual Division and the year when this guy was drafted or volunteered

Indeed, the guy from Norway isn't going to have the same experience in the war as the guy from Hamburg which is going to be different from the guy from Kiev but they were all part of Waffen SS which is why I hate the lack of nuance in these threads.

>>32262842
muh rangers, stfu fag

>>32264812
your post is too dumb to be answered. search a tree plz

>>32259187
>implying the germans had any good commanders left at that point in the war.

>>32264756
>How about Hacksaw Ridge?

A cliche of a cliche of a cliche.

It;s shit.

>>32265123
>they weren't so bad because after the first few thousand, some of them wanted to go fight on the front line for one reason or another
>they weren't so bad because they had well developed senses of duty regardless of their actions
>they weren't so bad because there were some people who were sometimes worse

You should stop, take 15 minutes, and actually examine the logic of your position.

Every single major military participant did some terrible shit in WWII. Objectively. Well documented. This does nothing to change the fact that the Einsatzgruppen performed monstrous acts on a scale and efficiency compared to their numbers and resources which was only matched in the 20th century by the likes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and a very select few others. This is objective fact.

You talk about "underage plz" but the true mark of an intellectual and moral child is the inability to directly face and acknowledge the darker aspects and heinous actions of a culture or system you admire.

I'm a burger and relatively well read amateur historian, particularly of the 20th century. I will freely admit that many of the things the Nazis accomplished were impressive, and a great many individual Germans proved themselves courageous, moral, honorable, clever and determined in WWII. However, if you cannot recognize the tragic headfuck the Nazi system also performed on a huge portion of German societal morals, you yourself will never grow out of your adolescent fascination.

>>32265159
I think it's a universal human fascination. You look at things like a particularly tragic plane crash, the historical record of Mayan sacrifices as the fresh water in the region became scarcer and scarcer due to geological change, very deadly conflicts started due to misunderstanding and machinations of a very few, or something like a very radical and damaging political ideology taking an entire culture for a ride and its human nature to stop, slackjawed, and ask, "what the fuck happened here?!"

The fervor and mystique of SS combat units in WWII plays deeply into that impulse.

>>32266458
In June 1944? Don't be ridiculous. There were a huge number of combat experienced, courageous and well trained tactical and even strategic commanders left in German forces.

>>32265033
Is that a Gavin dressed up as a BMP-2?

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>>32259121
> That krauted up T-34 though

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>>32259491
Look at the roadwheels and tracks, faggot.

>>32259946
Ah finally someone who gets it. K is not as clever as I thought. Shame on this thread

>>32265096
Listen to this man

>>32259412
Fury was bullshit. The original script called for the end battle to be old men and children but the studio felt it was too dark.

Every military battle ever involves one force streaming in one at a time through a bottleneck and fighting to the death instead of retreating when you know you have lost.

WW2 POWER RANKINGS:

1. GERMANY
2. USA
3. RUSSIA
4. JAPAN
5. GREAT BRITAIN
6. CANADA
7. ITALY
8. CHINA
9. FRANCE

>>32260071
ANNOUNCEMENT: Allies won the war in 1940 after the German failure to close off the western front. Nobody wins a war vs the world when they are surrounded

>>32267199
I agree with everything but France should be above China

>>32267199
>>32267239
This is the problem with /k/ commenting on history. No one has any fucking clue what they're talking about.

Which China? Reds? KMT? Which factions within those groups? Which splinter factions outside them? Who are we talking about?

You can argue that "China" in WWII encompasses about a dozen distinct and separate fighting organizations and forces, some of which were far more disruptive to their own "allied" countrymen than they were to the Japanese.

>>32263146

This. Good example about bottom-of-the-barrel Waffen-SS unit is SS-Division Nord, which is July 1941 gained notable ill-fame as unit whose soldiers fled from battlefield in panic abandoning their equipment. The main reason was apparently that the division was too poorly trained and inexperienced to hack the situation when the Soviets launched counter-attack after two failed attack attempts (resulting loss of five battalions) made by Nord.

>>32259378
Then why did they lose the war?

>>32259829
what did you thikn about the pacific?

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>this thread in a nutshell

>>32267654
I thought it was excellent entertainment, and generally extremely accurate compared to dramas about the theatre which had come before.

As a story, it was less cohesive and focused compared to Band of Brothers, and that disappointed some folks. But at the end of the day, I think this is far more due to the fundamentally different nature of the PTO compared to the ETO than poorer writing or adherence to primary source material.

The PTO was disjointed. It was confusing. It was constantly in flux day to day, from platoons getting jumped from behind through tunnel systems all the way up to strategic ground, sea and air operations constantly lacking firm front lines and constantly being interpenetrated on both sides. The Leyte Gulf battles are an excellent example of this. On one side, we have Surigao Strait, with a class naval push through a choke point on a defended exit. On the other we have the Battle off Samar, a completely confusing and surprising engagement for both sides with a front line battle formation meeting a support formation and neither side having much of a clue what was going on minute to minute.

Same with ground units. Experiences just between Marine divisions varied wildly. They often leapfrogged battles, where divisions would skip entire islands. For instance, 3rd Marines saw Guadalcanal, Guam and Iwo Jima. 1st Marines were at Guadalcanal, Cape Gloucester, Peleliu and Okinawa. Each and every one of these battles was dynamically different in significant ways: logistics, Japanese tactics, USN support, air cover, etc. That's why I think it made great sense to take three stories from different units to cover the overall PTO rather than follow one single unit. More coverage of the entire war, see and understand more of it, at the risk of the narrative being disjointed.

There's less surety. Less definition. Less cohesion to the narrative. This makes for sometimes frustrating viewing, but I respect them for holding accuracy at higher value

>>32267654
>>32267782
One other thing to remember about the ETO vs PTO, Band of Brothers vs The Pacific:

Band of Brothers covers the span of roughly one year, of a combat company fighting a single cohesive campaign.

The Pacific covers three years, IIRC five or six separate, very different campaigns and a three year very significant evolution in tactics, training and strategy.

They are very, very different shows in scope and detail of coverage. For The Pacific to be as detailed engagement to engagement as Band of Brothers (which still skipped or glossed a TON of material), it would need to be 50+ episodes long.

I enjoy them both about equally, but someone expecting Band of Brothers going into The Pacific will be sorely disappointed. It's just a very different series.

>>32259121
IM AM NO EXPERT YOU KNOW
BUT IF ZE GERMANS WOULD HAVE HAD BREN GUNS INSTEAD OF THEIR SPANDAUS
OH BOY

>>32267278
CHINA YOU FUCKHEAD

THE LAND OF CHONG

>>32267931
lindy pls

>>32259121
No. Everyone was shitting themselves, literally. They found cover and stayed there except for a handful of nutjobs.

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Fact is: Krauts had one of the worst armies in EUrope at the time

>b-but muh soviet k/d

Buffed by slaughtering civilians and during the first few months when they broke the NAP

Americans and Brits wiped the floor with kraut blood.

Since 1941 the krauts were basically finished.

Americans perfomred better than wehrmacht and/or SS in 95 % of battles.

Fuck you you goddam shiteating krautlovers

back to /pol/ you go

>>32259994
The BAR was awful and the thompsn legitmatley inferior to other SMGS of the day.

Some of the hate is justified. M1 hate, however, is not.

>>32265128
Soviets Like to rape. a lot. like, a lot - a lot.

>>32265150
>I'm saying both your board and /pol/ have the same level of echo-chamber mannerism just by looking at any plain thread on this website.
/his/ here:

You're wrong, and it's obvious that you are in fact from /pol/.
>ar bashing
>That is certainly a big problem.
I like that you're trying to strawman here
>Not that the gun isn't circlejerked over
Gee, one of the most commonly owned longarms in the US and widely issued rifles in the world has a large body of happy users. Never mind that we get routine threads bashing it, THIS IS CLEARLY AN ECHO CHAMBER.
>and has a fucking general
It's literally the one fucking rifle that is hand assembled by a significant portion of users who pick out-or finish- their own goddamn parts. If the AK had that level of aftermarket support, it would have a general. It doesn't, so it doesn't.

>>32269156
This. The BAR and Thompson , despite both being aesthetic af, were outdated designs.

Everything else ranged from okay to great.

>>32259829
>>32259672
>>32259636
>>32259187

Don't forget Reiben had gone out on that little motorcycle thing and fired at the Germans to draw them up the main road.

>>32268935
you seem far too assblasted to give an unbiased opinion mon frer

>>32269212
rape babies usually aren't carried to term

>>32267777

nice digits, also source?

>>32260039
>SS were mass murderers

The ones that did commit war crimes were punished. And I don't mean the holohoax.

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>>32259121

Here ya go. Focuses more on British/German fighting in Normandy but it'll give you a good enough idea.

https://mega.nz/#!sQRwhBzb!1mV_atzmWnkS-YLJLq9LazAktPEdiOVf1YpTvNOkbW4

>>32267777

nice

Italy had best paratobbers and frogmen unids!
ids fact!

>>32259169

I loathe our "modern" military strategies act like our air power is like Napoleon's cannons.

Each one of our aircraft costs countless millions to BUILD and after training, feeding, housing, and shipping people to actually make it possible for us to have planez we have to do maintain or create a wartime supply network for those planes.

The aircraft carrier costs much less than its airwing.

And add to the ridiculous amounts of money we throw away for solutions then subtract ...


I'm too drunk to finish

Fuck you.

Its hard as hell to pay for with fiat currency

Imagine if we can't print monopoly money anymore and its even harder

>>32267199

1: USA.
2: Soviet Union.
3: Nazi Germany.
3: The UK.
4: Japan.
5: France.
6: Italy.

>>32259196

Handfulls of soldiers have stalemated wars because of stupid shit.

>>32270664
My grandad killed many admergans!
Lol! Shoevl on face!

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>>32259378
>Elite Waffen SS troops with armor would have steamrolled any US unit.

I know you're being facetious but literally the only sector not to allow German advance during the Bulge was at Elsenborn Ridge where the US artillery was massed and just shit on 12th SS Panzer for a week. It's where the whole "Americans fight war like rich men," "why send a man when you can send a shell," and the myth of American "automatic artillery" all started.

>>32259412
Generally they were some of the more experienced German units, yes.

They were also the best funded/equipped. However, they also had some of the shittiest leaders in the German military, since that's where they sent all the politically-indoctrinated zealots and otherwise undesirables.

SS units were a total grab-bag of effectiveness. There were a few standouts that did extremely well, either through sheer atrocity or through good leadership. But there were also a lot that did very poorly. SS in general took disproportionately higher casualties than most other German units.

As to whether they could fuck up Rangers and Airborne, IRL they did. Regularly. But not because man-for-man they were better, but because they were a mechanized heavy infantry fighting in company-sized or larger elements fighting specialized, dismounted light infantry that fought in platoon or squad-sized elements. They had the advantage of manpower and support equipment almost across the board.

>>32270671

What?

>>32264947
Germany in a nutshell basically.

>>32270719
>be stubid admergan kid from Ohio
>be deployd to kasserin in 1943s
>be stupid and don't have good tactics
>be surprsed when bersaglieri attack
>be ded when knife slahs you gut and shevel hit your thick face
A story of the american dumb

>>32259378
>>32259412
As it turns out, very few Waffen SS units were exactly alike. Some were very good. These were rare. Most were mediocre. Some were REALLY bad. The SS as an organization was led by many incompetent leaders and their schools weren't as good as the Wehrmacht's schools.

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>>32270671

>be american
>take job in china teaching english to college-level chinese who already have a good grasp of it
>easy job, pretty much just helping them make conversation
>downside is it's in a coal-polluted town in the north, near border w/ best korea
>one student is obviously undiagnosed autist
>makes a point of reminding me every week that his grandpa killed tons of americans
>mfw

>>32270774
>be admergan stupid wide gut negro
>get the shot in face because wearing wrong hat in wrong neighbor
>died for wearing wrong caped color

lol stupid amdericans

>>32267217

ANNOUNCEMENT

Russia lost one of four citizens from 1939 to 1945

And Russia annexed lands and citizens left and right.

Russia sacrificed a lot to win. If nobody help them I am sure they'd fight the Nazis with spit and bad words.

Russia lost nearly every significant factory, nearly every acre of farmland, nearly every railroad.

Without help Stalin himself would call it a day and go home.

And after that Russia blew our minds. Amazing military creations.

The Alfa submarines could outrun any torpedo in their day, for one. Sending men in space for for two.

the story of admerican warfares
>be rich because friend of jews
>have many ammos in canisters
>shoot from 10 kilomettres all time of day
>think you are strong warrior
>false

i hate admergans cowards only advance when artillary killed everythig

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>>32259412
>Genuinely asking btw, I've seen Fury and that movie would lead me to believe the SS are a laughingstock of retards.


This is the source material used for the movie. Making them SS was just a stylistic choice.

>>32270861

Stalingrad- 70 dead per square mile
Okinawa- 200 dead per square mile
Peleliu- 2,600 dead per square mile
Iwo Jima- 2,800 dead per square mile

>>32270644
By military effectiveness and tonnage of ships sunk, the Norwegian resistance actually had the most effective frogmen. Suck on that, ya poofter spaghetti artist.

Seriously, though, dudes like Sonsteby and Manus were fucking madmen. Those dudes and others in Norway did more with less than any other groups in the war, I think. They dealt the final financial deathblow to the resource-starved Nazi nuclear program, among many other successes.

>>32259292
that always sent my sperg radar off. who would roll all your armor into a city without even scouting it out/

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>>32270978
>who would roll all your armor into a city without even scouting it out

>>32270978
In all fairness, both the Germans and Americans did do some "recon in force" with mechanized units. It was RARE, but it did happen. And it continued to be rare, because it bit them in the ass as often as it worked.

>>32268935
>t. butthurt frenchman

>>32259494

In the opening scene on D-Day they used 2500 soldiers from Ireland. I wish more war movies would do that instead of Hollywood extras.

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>>32266483
>cliche of a cliche of a cliche

>ctrl-f "/pol/"
>28 results
Is there a board they haven't fucked up?

>>32264812
>If you honestly believe that the majority of the SS were highly-trained
It's dependant on the time. Leibstandarte, Das Reich and Totenkopf were basically bumbling retards who only existed to kill undesirables and guard the concentration camps around 1939. Around 1942, when the Krauts hit their high water mark, they were solid veteran units, in 1944 the quality has slipped down quite a bit, and in 1945 it's basically just the hardest core of the veterans and totally new Hitlerjugend with weapons built in a cave with a box of scraps fighting the hardest core veterans of the Union.

Enjoy the war while you can, because the peace will be terrible.

>>32271098
Not on 4chan, and not really anywhere else. They shitpost like its their fucking job.

>>32271140
Well what else is a 28 year old unemployed curmudgeon with no social skills and intimate knowledge of every crack and crevice of Stormfront supposed to do all day?

>>32271162
Jack off to interracial porn

>>32259440
yeah fuck them for not knowing the exact details of shit that happened 50 years before they were born and raised in a system that focuses on identity politics instead of education

>>32271220
Yeah, but, see, that's only one hand busy.

>>32271245
Explain to me how it was any different for the kids who were high school and college aged during Vietnam.

>>32271295
it's been decades and the current education system cares more about who can go in which bathroom and what happened to africans 200 years ago than what happened to americans 50 years ago

>>32271325
I love how this completely drama-queen shock face arm flailing bullshit just slides on through and we all roll our eyes but more or less just ignore it.

Fuck this. I'm tired of seeing this horseshit.

Are you in school? College? When was the last time you were actually in a classroom? See US education for yourself, rather than hearing about it from Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones?

I just got done going back for a masters after working for 8 years after college. And, yeah, there's some bullshit in there, just like any education system. But there's a reason the rest of the world still sends their fucking kids to the US for higher education at a pretty damn high clip.

Stop swallowing the bullshit. Go see for yourself.

>>32270861
Gook, it's time to stop posting.

>>32266458
Fuck off retard. The majority was still there, what are you even talking about.