Red pill me on the Battle of Kursk.

OB'S STURMT ODER SCHNEIT, OB DIE SONNE UNS LACHT

>>32250157
Smaller wars have been fought

>>32250382
DER TAG GLUHEND HEISS, ODER EISKALT DIE NACHT

>>32250470
VERSTAUBT SIND DIE GESICHTER, DOCH FROH IST UNSER SINN

JA

UNSER SINN

>>32250157
How about you fuck off back to /pol/ faggot

Defense in depth is a good counter to blitzkrieg.

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>>32250157
>redpill

>>32250157
>We attack for fatherland!
>Not yet though, new wonderwaffen tanks broke down.
>Now we attack, sure the Soviets have not been doing anything.
>Oh fuck artillery.
>Oh fuck tanks.
>Oh fuck even more tanks.
>Dead.

>>32250157
The battle of Kursk was a pitched battle, an offensive not like the blitzkrieg strikes of the previous two summers: it wasn't a clever plan, wasn't a surprise, and there weren't really any real weak points to strike in the opening moves.

Soviet intelligence knew the positions of all German artillery batteries, and bombarded them a couple hours before the German attack. Here, soviet deception was highly effective, because the Germans were never totally sure where the Russian batteries were located.

The air battle was the largest of the war, with both sides having roughly comparable numbers. The entirety of that battle was a struggle for air supremacy, and attempting to support ground troops. Pilots on both sides flew an absurd amount of sorties during the battle.

Citadel was delayed by two months while the Panzer forces waited for deliveries of new Panther tanks that Hitler felt were needed to make the necessary impact on the battle. This gamble didn't pay off, because most Panthers were lost due to transmission failures and engine fires rather than enemy contact. Those two months also gave the soviets two more months to dig in...however it's arguable either way if the Germans could have mounted an effective attack that early, especially considering this being shortly after the fighting at Kharkov.

Insane battle of numbers, and mostly consisted of slogging matches, with numbers and the high command's willingness to continue the battle making the difference.

>>32250157
The Commies got reamed hard, but they had more men in the end after their massive losses so it was a "decisive commie victory".

>>32250758
Do you think War is just Team Deathmatch?
Soviets took more losses, but the Germans completely failed to accomplish their strategic objectives while the Reds held and pushed them back. That's a decisive loss on their part

>>32250157
>Redpill me on basic history I could find anywhere online

OP, the best thing you can do is an hero, taking ANY portion of the back half of the IQ curve with you

>>32250382
>>32250470
>>32250516
pretty much this

>>32250157
>redpill me on

Get the fuck out of here, you cringy faggot.

>>32250698
>he entirety of that battle was a struggle for air supremacy, and attempting to support ground troops. Pilots on both sides flew an absurd amount of sorties during the battle.
I've never heard this, but I'm inclined to believe you. The number of tanks involved always sucks the air out of the room when you mention KURSK.

Thanks for the information-nugget. Recommend a book on the subject?

>>32250698
>Soviet intelligence knew the positions of all German artillery batteries, and bombarded them a couple hours before the German attack
I remember watching a documentary that stated the soviets threw a whole heap of shells in the wrong place, hoping to hit a wave of attacking troops that wouldn't actually be there for a few hours.

>>32250157
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ichrcupEbvA

The Germans got cocky despite earlier defeats, and got absolutely shut down in a pitched battle.

>>32250157
It wasnt really a "battle", it was an offensive launched on a very wide area. And no, tanks didn't play main role in it.

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>>32254303
>absolutely shut down
strategically yes but tactically, no

>>32250758
>the germans actually won WW2, it's just that the soviets lied!

There's one of you in every thread.

>>32254372

more of these please!

>>32250157

Opening battle was a Tactical success for Germany, Strategic success for the Soviets. The Germans inflicted a tremendous amount of casualties for being on the attack in an area that was well prepared beforehand with trenchlines, minefields and a mass of Soviet materiel. At this point, the Soviets had gotten the Germans into a position that they believed they could (and frankly they should have been able to) encircle and destroy numerous German armies with the goal of destroying the Southern Army Group entirely, allowing the Soviets to move unimpeded through Ukraine and into the Balkans and Poland.

Unfortunately they were unable to do that and the bulk of both German Army Groups were able to extricate themselves from the field and regroup, resulting in the Germans winning what could be called something of a strategic victory for the final phase of the battle in avoiding destruction and being allowed to continue to fight through eastern Europe, but they ceased to be an offensive force.

>>32254356
A strategic shutdown is still a shutdown.

>>32254462
>>32254479

don't let corporal's run the war. news at 11.

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Germans lost, that's all there is to it.

>>32254367
Everyone knows it's all about kill/death ratio.
Even Stalin said that the Germans were the bravest of all the Germanics.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxQ6E1v2Rq4

It was worth it.

>>32253046
The best I can say for how I learned this stuff is literally years of autist-tier obsession and random research on the battle: random web articles, random documentaries, random books that mention Kursk.

There are books devoted to Kursk you can find though.

>>32253095
Maybe that's so, but I was saying about hitting the German artillery batteries, which I believe they did before dawn. One of the German handicaps the first day of Kursk was relatively weak artillery support.

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>>32250157

Okay

The battle of Kursk became a highlight for tanks because 1.) it was the largest tank battle known to mankind, 2.) many new tanks that were viewed as the pinnacle of tank warfare at the time made their debut (I.e the panther tank) and 3.) the Germans had their panzer divisions take up the brunt of the assault work.

The battle itself was a strategic failure for the Germans as they had failed to take their objectives to gain momentum for offensive operations in the future. They also lost a good amount of armor and aircraft in the battle and with the slow rate of production of the German war effort, it would be hard to replace those numbers of equipment as well as men lost.

The soviets enjoyed a strategic victory, especially after their counter offensive which put them on the attack for the rest of the war. Their defense in depth tactics proved that the German blitzkrieg was not infallible. Although the soviets sustained more losses in terms of men, tanks, and aircraft, they had both the manpower and the industry to replenish their front line.

While the Germans would put up a good fight for the remaining years of the war, they lost any chance of victory on the eastern front after the battle of Kursk.

Tl:dr Germans lost strategic initiative, soviets gained momentum to be on the offense for the rest of the war, despite taking higher casualties

>>32254578
>real life is a game of Team Deathmatch

I'm sorry but it simply doesn't matter what their kdr was. The Soviet Union controlled half of Europe for decades. That's not a "german win".

>>32255193
>it was the largest tank battle known to mankind

David Glantz would like a word with you.

>>32250157
Niggers died and shit.

>>32255297
>"David, anon will see you now"

>>32255391
https://youtu.be/5qkmO7tm8AU

It's a really good lecture that covers the majority of the Eastern front.

>>32255511
Sounds interesting. I'll check it out when I get some time. Thanks man.

It's worth noting that when the Soviet counteroffensive started, two-thirds of the German tank forces had been disabled. They were held near the front for rapid re-issue, meaning that several hundred panzers were now lost forever instead of for a few weeks. The counterstroke fucked the Germans for the rest of the war.