The best submachine gun of WW2, prove me wrong.

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>>32154206
pic related is best
cheap and works well

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>>32154206
>prove me wrong.

2003 wants their memes back.

>>32154236
must be bait
i almost falled for it

>>32154243
>he still falls for the PPSh 41 / Sten meme

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>>32154206
>best SMG
>posts shotgun

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The best submachine gun of WW2, prove me wrong.

>>32154206
Is that some kind of Russian Tommy gun?

>>32154215
I wonder how hard it'd be to carve a classy wooden stock for one of those, while holed up in your Warsaw apartment. I don't know anything about woodworking though, and only slightly more about metalworking, I'd make a terrible partisan.

Uhh, a chisel. A planer. Pretty sure you'd need some of them. Some sandpaper too I guess, maybe like varnish or something.

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>>32154266
>prove me wrong

Check ...Mate

>>32154206
PPSH, heck of a shotgun

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>>32154284
Mfw

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>>32154206
ok

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i unironically plan on creating pic related despite the ppsh shotgun meme. i want to take a VEPR12 and get someone to machine this shit for me. probably try to get it to fit nicely and line up/integrate with a muzzle brake. gonna finagle a wooden lower handguard into the mix and probably a classic heat shield upper handguard or maybe something custom that looks better. im getting the longer barreled vepr so its gonna be slick as fuck.

>>32154220

The Internet didn't exist in 2003, faggot.

>>32154329
also pretty sure this pic is fake because how the fuck do you take it off? im thinking its either fake or they machined it onto the gun. I'm wondering if i could get a decent sight right on to the shroud or just go with a front sight gas block, kinda seems like that would fuck up the good swing and sight picture id have with the long barrel.. Probably make the shroud removeable with pins.

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>>32154206
Agreed

>>32154206

Sten and Grease Gun-style cheap things were better for a mass conflict

>>32154342
It's not fake, there were a bunch of those made in the 90's from mis-matched parts kits by an unknown assembly firm.

They're really shit rifles.

>>32154329
You will never do that.

>>32154206
PPS-43 was lighter, cheaper, and its mags were lighter and cheaper as well. The PPSh-41 is definitely one of the greatest SMGs of WWII however

>Select fire
>Has a manual safety
>Cheap to produce
>About 8lb unloaded as I recall
>Awesome rate of fire but semi-auto available for slower RPM
>Can make two PPSh-41 barrels by cutting an M91/30 barrel in half
>Has a compensator
>Can take both stick mags and drums

Seriously, it really is hard to beat the PPSh-41, but I'd prefer to go with the PPS-43.

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>>32154275
STEN mk5?

>>32154274
>Commie Gun

>>32154206
Well let's check off SMGs that CANNOT be the best of WWII...

Thompson
>Heavy as shit firearm
>Heavy as shit ammo
>Expensive

MP-40
>Slow rate of fire in spite of shoulder-firing a pistol cartridge from a firearm that's about 8.5lb unloaded
>Full auto only (no select fire)
>No manual safety (just a notch in the receiver
>Barrel starts far away from the trigger making for an inefficient design in terms of barrel length vs overall length (Opposite effect from bullpup)

STEN
>Questionable reliability
>No manual safety? (Not 100%, but I do know it's select fire)

Type 100 Nambu
>Questionable reliability
>Wasn't produced in particularly big numbers (expensive to manufacture?)
>8mm Nambu is pitifully weak (Shoots a smaller/lighter bullet than 9x19, barely higher velocity than .45 ACP)

M3 "Grease Gun
>Cocking requires either touching the bolt directly or using a lever that was apparently prone to breaking
>Was meant to be basically a disposable SMG that could be completely replaced instead of repaired if one ever got damaged (I hear, correct me if I'm wrong)
>Heavy as fuck ammo (Seriously, 230gr .45 ACP weighs nearly as much as M80 Ball 7.62 Nato)
>If you fall on it, you might dent the receiver, resulting in harsh decrease in reliability (M3s really were made super cheaply)
>Slow RPM (though since it's .45 ACP, perhaps that's a good thing)
>Pretty sure it's full auto only, and doubt it had a manual safety, maybe the dust cover acted as one or something

Owen
>Probably the greatest SMG of WWII

PPS-43
>Probably the greatest SMG of WWII

PPSh-41
>Possibly the greatest SMG of WWII

I think we should just call the Owen, PPS-43, and PPSh-41 the Top 3 Greatest SMGs of WWII.

>>32155514
The notch in the receiver is just fine for a safety. It won't go anywhere. And the M3's dust cover acted as the safety.

>>32154256
Are you autistic?

>>32155543
I do not consider a notch in the dust cover to be a legitimate safety. I think the SVT and SKS's lazy one-piece safeties that only served to prevent the trigger from being pulled to be proper safeties. At least those you can flick off with remarkable ease and quickness. If all I had to use for a safety was a notch or a dustcover, I'd sooner just leave the bolt closed on a loaded mag, even if I'd have to remove a round or two in order to seat it with the bolt closed.

So no, I don't qualify a notch in the receiver as being a manual safety, and thus I include it in the list of reasons why STEN and MP40 cannot be the best SMG of WWII. The M3 "Grease Gun" as well.

>>32155640
PPSH, heck of a shotgun!

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>>32154206
Ch8k m8

>>32155640
It's a meme. FallOut 3 has a shotgun that looks VERY similar to the PPSh-41. Then I think someone posted a pic of an actual PPSh-41 and 2 TT-33s on Facebook or some shit. There were comments like "I'll take the Tommy Gun!" "Dual Colts for me!" "I'll take the .45s!" "PPSH, Hell of a shotgun...", etc. I don't have the pic.

>>32154256
Nah it's a recoil-based automatic warhead launcher

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>>32155702

>>32155699
>M1928 Thompson
>About 11lb unloaded
>Over 12lb w/ 20-rnd mag
>Nearly 13lb w/ 30-rnd mag
>Probably 15-16lb with 50-rnd drum
>Expensive as shit
>Can't carry as much ammo as 9mm, 8mm Nambu, or 7.62x25

M1928 Thompson with 5 30-rnd mags (only 150 rounds) will weigh over 20lb. PPS-43 with 9 35-round magazines (Over 300 rounds) will weigh 20lb or less.

>>32155710
That's the one.

>>32155707
>Select fire
>Manual safety on left side of receiver?
>Compensator
>Bayonet lug?
>Doesn't look TOO heavy... (Looked online to check) 9lb unloaded (not very good, though fairly typical for 1930s), the 38/42 model was more like 7.2lb unloaded (very good, but had the safety removed)
>Looks like the sight radius could have been made longer, though
>Not sure how affordable it was to produce
>RPM could afford to be ramped up

The PPS-43 was lighter, I'm VERY confident that it was cheaper, definitely had a manual safety, slightly higher RPM, no bayonet lug sadly but it seems to me that the PPS-43 was an all-around better design.

>>32155685
The PPS, PPSh, and Owen don't even have safeties. the Notch is better.

>>32156317
Literally all three of them have manual safeties. PPS-43, PPSh-41, and Owen. PPSh-41 and Owen are also select fire, but the PPS-43 is full-auto-only however I think all the benefits of the design outweigh this downfall. The MP40 is full auto only and has no manual safety, while the M3 "Grease Gun" is also full auto only and also has no proper manual safety. M3 also has quite a pitiful rate of fire for a shoulder-fired firearm that uses pistol ammunition.

>>32154215
Have you seen Carnik Con's video about the sten?

>>32154256
his drum/clipazine holds more than your commie state allows huh based anon?

>>32154266
I like this pic, always makes me wonder what they are thinking
> hanz?
> ja, mein commandant?
> do you think, with the black leather trench coats and skull head insignia, that we may be the bad guys?
> sir, we are doing are absolute best to fix our country. Perhaps war is the bad guy, yes?

>>32154206

that's one heck of a shotgun

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>>32154206
>prove me wrong
Sure.

>>32157139
>being effay makes you a bad guy

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> Not liking superior glorious Czech supportsubmachinegun

>>32157900
dubs means it true

>>32157900
Fucking hell yes.

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>>32155514
Tommy gun is best, the M1A1 isn't that heavy, and the ammo (while heavy) has a shit ton of power.

Also expensive = higher quality

>>32154338
4chan was created in 2003

baka senpai

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>>32154206
> tfw you will never reclaim Bolschevik land with a Mp40 or Mp 38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4YG1yRJxmw

pic related
> tfw 2.3k for a semi auto Mp38
I hate it being a poorfag

>>32158007
M1A1 is 10.5lb unloaded which is less than half a pound lighter than the M1928, .45 ACP only makes marginally larger wounds than 9mm (shot placement is still by far the most important aspect), and expense doesn't automatically mean higher quality. In fact you're defending the M1A1, which is cheaper than the M1928, so shouldn't you be defending the M1928?

I bit the bait.

>>32158099
You're better off saving your money for something else. The MP40 wasn't anything special, one of the more mediocre SMGs of WWII. Didn't do anything particularly well, its folding stock was the most noteworthy aspect of the design, and the funky telescoping recoil springs which seems to me to be an unnecessary added expense.

>>32155743
Yeah except it fires .45 acp

>>32156834
Who cares? The M3 served all the way until 1992. If there was a problem then they would've gotten rid of it. You're just being autistic.

>>32158210
12lb unloaded

>>32154236
This.

>>32154236
>>32159086

Nothing like a 12 round magazine in a fucking submachine gun.

>>32154215
I had the pleasure of firing a sten and a ppsh just like 2 weeks ago.

Pupushka was best and sten a shit.

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Grease gun with the cocking handle is the best.

>>32154206
Sten, Thompson, Grease gun, Beretta 38 lots were better.

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>>32154206

Nyet, is just cheap knock-off of best SMG.

>>32154256
Lmao. You talking about that fallout thread?

>>32154256
>>32155640
i think it's a joke about the fire rate and small bullets

>>32154329
why has this not been done already

>>32155640
Heck of a shotgun!

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How are Australians so good at everything they do?

>Pic related
most reliable firearm in all of WW2

>>32155710
Get some!

PPSH wins easily, but only because the other contenders are either shit, or too expensive.

>>32154256
kek

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>>32159944
That looks pretty dakka.

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>>32154300

>>32158007
Thompson all the way!
Heavy and Hard hitting.

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>>32159316
Fuck yeah.

>>32155710

>RPD

there is nothing there that looks like a rpd

>>32157900
this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlFdhAK5c7Q

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>>32162282

based ian

>>32158915
What do you mean?
>>32158981
Just because they continued to use it, doesn't mean it might have been the best SMG of WWII, which is the entire point of this thread; figuring out what's best.
>>32159047
What's 12lb unloaded? I recall the M1928 being nearly 11lb unloaded. M1A1 Thompson 10.5lb.

>>32159316
I heard the cocking handle tended to break with use.

>>32159944
>Gravity-assisted feed
>Ejects straight downwards so basically nothing to get in the way of ejection (good luck getting a chimney stack... or... butt plug? What do you call a failure to eject when the casing is pointing downwards? A dingleberry?

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>>32159944
Reading about this gun is such a treat.

>Creator had zero experience with machinery, mechanics or engineering.
>First prototype left in a sack in a shed for two years.
>Prototype magazine utilised a gramophone spring
>Went up against Sten and Thompson SMGs during testing. Owen gun the only one to pass them all
>Gun costs $30 to manufacture
>Ammunition made for the first ten thousand guns was the the wrong fucking caliber

I love this ugly child.

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This fucking thread again?
MP44. Done, go home.

>>32164060
>smg

back to /v/ for you

>>32164069
did you get his insurance information? because he got fukkin rekt.

>>32164069
>>32164094
What does the MP in MP44 stand for?

>>32164101
Maschinenpistole

>>32164101
7.92×33mm is a pistol cartridge now?

>>32164101
>What does Sturmgewehr-44 stand for?
Assault rifle-44
fuck off, intermediate cartridge->assault rifle.

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>>32154206
heavy wood
drum mag is almost one use only

>>32164101
>has a rifle caliber barrel
>shoots out as far as a rifle
Just because i call a cow a duck, doesnt make that coew go "quack". Faggot. Theres a reason they renamed it the "Strumgehwer 44" from "MachinenPistol 44", because it doesnt shoot a pistol sized round.

Now i need your name, insurance card, and your DL please.

>>32164134

they renamed it to get Hitler to greenlight it. He wasn't sold on the MP43/44, they got him to think up a sweet new name for it, and then he let them start mass-producing them.

>>32164143
Sir, are you back-talking me? Step out of the fagmobile before im forced to ban you for being an incompantant poster.

>>32164118
MP44 >> Machine pistol-44

>>32154545

Oh. My. Fuck.

>>32157759
the trigger is horrid

>>32164333
That's just on the semi auto TNW models, and even so it is a simple fix.

>>32154215
Grandfather used one during the war, told me the thing was a fucking deathtrap as did my father who used it in training.

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>>32154256

>>32159480
>Finns still believe this meme

>>32154298
good meme

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>>32154206
Suomi is better the ppsh is based of it

>>32165501
This desu. Suomi is pretty underrated.

>>32154215
>sten gun
>anything but utter shit

>>32157139
>copying a famous post for (you)s
people like you deserve gas chambers.
1/10 made me reply

>>32154206
You mean combat shotgun, right?

>>32154256
Heckuva shotgun

>>32159316
You know if by chance americans are allowed full auto again while I know cool shit like the FN P90 wpuld be more practical and effective, I've always wanted a grease gun. Just stick one in my mechanics tool bag and if the shtf, just go operating in my overalls, a large wrench and muh "grease gun"

>>32157139

You fucked up the greentext, newfag.

Stop posting or go back to /b/ for those precious replies. Dipshit.

>>32157139
>thinking nobody has ever seen the most famous mitchell and webb sketch

>>32164431
I have one, how do you fix it

>>32155514
you couldn't be more wrong about your description of the M3.

>>32154206
That's one hell of a shotgun.

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>>32155514
>Was meant to be basically a disposable SMG that could be completely replaced instead of repaired if one ever got damaged

>>32154338
Just because you didnt exist in 2003 doesnt mean that the internet didnt

>>32165786

#rekt

I've shot a FA Tompson, PPSH and a MP40. PPSH is the best.
>Crazy rate of fire And still controllable
Reloading on the Tompson sucks. MP40 is a turd

>>32165514
Keep in mind though; it's heavier, and costs more to manufacture. Sure it's more accurate, but I think a larger number of PPSh-41 is better than a smaller number of Suomi. The advantages of the Suomi don't outweigh the advantages of the PPSh-41, in my opinion.

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>>32154206
The only answer.

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>>32167606

>>32154206
ITS HELL OF A SHOTGUN

>>32163950
>dumb strayan kid manages to make a better SMG than all of the worlds leading firearms designers

>>32160167
Aww it's so cute I just wanna shoot its face off

>>32164118
Sturmgewehr doesnt stand for anything you dumbass, it translates

>>32167476
I thought this thread was about the best smg and not about war economy and strategies.

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>>32154338
The internet existed back in the 1960's and 70's, you stupid piece of shit.

>>32154471
Eh, so you'd produce real actually nice ones? If so I'd be interested, may get around the MD copycat laws. Market that shit OP.

>>32154206
It jams commonly due to its high fire rate and it has limited range.
I think those were the only setbacks that gun had.

>>32154338
You fucking idiot i was on Totse in 2003 when you were still shitting in your diapers

>>32159944
Damn that looks like it was made in someones basement

>>32170279
It was

>>32170296
well shit...

>>32167606
>sergei, come of over heres i have glorious plan

>>32169951
I believe ease of production factors into what is the best SMG of WWII. Doesn't matter how good an SMG is if the other side has several times as many.

>>32170462
The other side can also have a lot more soldiers...
I think that quality vs quantity debate is irrelevant in this thread.

>>32170551
In cases like the PPS-43 and PPSh-41, I don't think that the sheer quantity has diminished the quality. I believe both were superior to the MP40, yet the MP40 was made in smaller numbers and was also likely more expensive than both.

>>32155514
I've fired an MP40 and it's very easy to fire a single shot if you so desire.

>>32154329
How much would you pay for that?

>>32157900
Ian's video on this thing made me aware of it and how much i desperately wanted one. Such incredible machining on this thing, a subbie made like a rifle. unf.

>>32170903
That's all well and good, but the presence of a select fire mechanism is better than having a rate of fire so slow that it's easy to fire a single shot. I also wager that being able to calmly pull the trigger will produce more accuracy than having to jerk the trigger quickly so as to only get one shot fired, so again, select fire is better than having a slow rate of fire.

>>32164060
When you fire a StG, the gas/fumes/whatever escapes through the openish top/bolt area and makes your eyes sting. That was my surprising experience with firing it.

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Someone red pill me on the legality of buying this

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>>32154236
good one anon

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>>32154206
>>32154545
>>32155514
The Owen gun was the best WW2 sub machine gun

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Git Gud. Pic Related

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>>32154256
heh

>>32171454

>intact receiver

Hide your dog.

>>32154525
yes i will faggot. all of my rifles are buy it for life and are all projects. Unique + functionality + comfy. VEPR 308 i was planning on doing a sporter hunting type stock which would be interesting because it would be like an un-conversion like you do on a typical saiga, then get the baby SVD front handguard from ironwood, but now I'm considering nigger rigging up a galil style front handguard that a bipod could clip into, because I like it. VEPR in x39 i have just been doing a ton of faggoty shit to and my next big step is getting a gas piston welded onto the bolt as a aesthetic as fuck vertical charging handle and bolt super polished up for gucci. Almost done converting saiga into the most overpriced AKM copy ever. VEPR-12 is actually the easiest project I have planned but I'm chilling on gun buying since shitlery didnt get elected.

>>32154471
interesting, havent found much on them from a quick search, any links anyone?

>>32170905
That gun? nothing. for my vepr-12 project i really don't think it will cost much. It would be a pretty cheap custom part really, its not very complicated, then just some drilling and fitting. I've considered doing a more typical style heat shield/barrel shroud but the ppsh style is so sexy. The final holes on the ppsh act as a kind of shitty muzzle brake, i would really like to integrate a muzzle device that basically fits into the part because if it didn't it seems like it would be ugly as fuck and a bitch to clean. If I make the wood myself and do everything but machine the part I'd estimate $1300 including gun.

>>32164101
it's an mkb 42
>falling for propaganda and diversion

>>32155514

>Owen gun

I'm gonna venture a guess and say you are australian because that sticks out like a sore thumb

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>>713655308
>>32165786
Dammmmuuummmmm

>>32155514

>No Berreta
>No Danuvia
>No Orita
>Russian jam machine best smeegee

All them b8's

>>32169976
It depends on what you call "internet"

ARPAnet is a 70s thing.

The World Wide Web started in 1991.

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>>32172402
That's sad man.

>I do not consider
Opinion discarded. It is a safety, kys you retarded slavboo.

>>32172402
Ugly as sin, a bit on the heavy side (over 9lb unloaded; heavier than the STEN, MP40, PPSh-41 or PPS-43), but with that track record for reliability, the manual safety, the select fire capabilities and (I assume, considering the circumstances under which it was build) cheap to manufacture, yes, I definitely believe it could be considered the greatest SMG of WWII. A shame it wasn't made in bigger numbers. It's also a bit more efficient in terms of overall length vs barrel length. It really does seem like the MP40 with stock extended is one of the most size-inefficient designs of WWII. With the mag further ahead on the firearm, it's the opposite effect of a bullpup. Bigger size for smaller barrel. Also makes it more front-heavy.

>>32172599
Afraid not, nope. Grew up with arachnophobia; I'd have died of a heart attack by now if I was an Aussie.

>>32172747
Oh yeah, that Beretta 38 was a cool design, though I don't know a whole lot about it. The original 38 I recall was really heavy, over 9lb unloaded, but the Beretta 38/42 was lighter though I'm not sure if it had a manual safety or not. As for the Danuvia and Orita, I genuinely never heard of those before, learn me anon. Also, looks like you fell for the PPSh-41 jam-o-matic maymay.

>>32172779
It is... why are there so damn many sad stories from Australia? Ever seen Lost in Fright? Old flick from the early 70s, and stars an actor who was in Zulu. Now there's a fucked up movie, dude. Even has some intense scenes of real kangaroo hunting. Yeah, some of the scenes in that movie is /k/ as fuck.

>>32172492
Yeah... thats what i thought

>>32173063

>Danuvia

Hungarian SMG that fire a cartridge similar to the 45, firing Mauser Export but it's shorter, lighter and higher fire rate. It's a good heavy SMG that kicks the shit out of the Fuddy Gun.

>Orita

Take the MP-41, make it lighter, simpler, cheaper, and add a bit more barrel length.

>Also, looks like you fell for the PPSh-41 jam-o-matic maymay.

Black Sea Marines preferred stick mags over drums do to jamming.

And the PPSh-41 uses a machine gun trigger system like the M60, which doesn't bode well for a high fire rate SMG that will require trigger pinching.

>>32167606
>>32167612
DIZ IZ ALMOST ENUFF DAKKA!!!

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>>32154256
I want /v/ to stay

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>>32172779
Trust a Brit, go to shit.