argument for campus carry

>>32152159
is that pupinia?

Looks like pupinia.

>>32152159

proper action in this situation is to get everyone you can into a room with you and guard the entrance with whatever available firearms there are until law enforcement arrives, you're not supposed to go try and be a hero hunting down active shooters and cutting the pie while darting around campus. it's much like home defense.

>>32152159
The bad guy will be firing into the civilians. The good guys if properly knowledgeable or trained, will wait until finding the perp and then dispatching them, then holstering their weapon.

Also, carrying concealed isn't really meant for that. It's meant for if your life is directly threatened, not seeking out an active shooter.

>>32152164
I don't know, I just thought it was a funny picture and saved it off /pol/. She is a qt though

May as well argue that you lock everyone in a room and let the shooter kill them all. Otherwise how will you know who the bad guy is?

Let God sort them out.

The point of concealed carry, whether in a campus or off, is not to track down the attacker, stop the threat and be a hero. That is all incidental. If it were to happen, great. But chances are it will not. The point of concealed carry, whether in a campus or off, is to give an individual who is caught in a horrendous situation the ability to fight back against an opponent with a clear intent to do harm in as level a manner as possible. It is not about tracking down the person, but instead, works as a contingency plan against the worst in society. In the event of an active shooter, concealed carriers should do what any sane individual should do. Move as far as as fast away from the source of danger and ensure that they and those around them are safe. If they encounter the threat, fight back with everything at their disposal. But until such a time comes, their concealed weapon should remain where it is. Concealed. There are no sheep dogs, wolves, and sheep in the real world. Only those smart enough to realize when and where it is appropriate to act.

>>32152159
The people who have the smarts and training to have a CCW in the first place should know whos a fellow CCW carrier and whos a faggot who thinks he can shoot up a school and get away with it

>>32152159
People who campus carry must, by law, wear a stylish headband or some kind of clothing accessory that is totally distinguishable from a far away distance. This distinguishable accessory should be mandatory, and only permit its use by those who are 100% certified to campus carry. The only way to obtain this certification should come from those driven enough to obtain it - a similar process that it takes to becoming a cop or military, but obviously expedient and more selective.

>University of Alaska Anchorage
>Shool getting all pissy and liberal about guns on campus
>Double digit student body is military
>Chancellor: Guns are bad and not needed, just ask the campus police chief
>Campus Police "stalin stash" Chief: I wont say one way or the other, but if a shooting occurs at the arts building it will take us 15 to 20 minutes to respond.

>>32152235
Good idea, make the threats easily identifiable so the shooter knows who to prioritize.

>>32152260
>implying an active shooter would stand a chance against multiple armed targets that are decent in using fire arms
>implying that in the past, shooters have sought out to shoot campus police first before going on a rampage
>implying that people who are campus carriers are not aware of the risks involved in being a campus carrier.

OP here. Thanks, guys. These are great arguments.

>>32152275
>>32152235
Except for you because you're retarded.

>>32152291
you're a dumb fuck, congrats

>>32152306

sorry ,speshul snùflake we dont like your idea.

SHALL

>>32152159
An assailant shooter will be making rapid movements through the campus in a way that is easily identifiable by someone with firearms knowledge, a defensive position holding a choke point protecting themselves and others is also easily identifiable.
Concealed carry is for immediate defense, not vigilante justice.
the "good guy with the gun" is doing what the police, who haven't arrived yet cannot: Protecting themselves and the others with them.

The simplest answer is to know your local LEO liasons and have direct contact available.
In a defensive situation immediately call the responders and tell them the location of the room you are holed up in and the numbers sheltered with you, get the liason to give you a callsign / reporting phrase for the unit in the building so you know it isn't a shooter impersonating the response team

>>32152194
/thread

>>32152194
>says the pleb who wants to die a tragic death
Only betas think that way, anon.

>>32152214
/thread

>>32152159

The good guy will drop their gun when ordered to do so, the bad guy won't. Simple as that.

>>32152214
Securifag here. Then how the hell do you explain my contact giving me a gun and telling us all to shoot someone who is shooting up our site? Thats literally my job to find the source of the threat, kill it with fire, and get shit on by their families layer because i messed up somewhere down the line.

Hmmm?

>>32153582
>contact
Stupid auto correct.

I meant contract

Also, don't draw until you see an imminent threat. You running around with a gun will just confuse people.

This sucks but if you see someone with a gun don't automatically assume their the shooter.

Wait to see what they do.
I.E. aim at you, shoot at other people etc.

>>32152159
It's simple, One you get your CCW, you adopt a stray dog and keep it with you at all times. In the event of a shooting, you can defend yourself, and should the police arrive while you are defending yourself, they will inevitably shoot your dog instead of you.

Problem solved.

A better argument against campus carry doesn't involve active shooters: drunk students. Remember some of these kids think they're the greatest and drink themselves until the dorm bathroom is covered in vomit.

So now you have to balance the loss of life from drunk retards (as well as the usual depressed folks) having even better tools to harm themselves and others to the number of lives saved from active shooters eliminated via conceal carry. As stated by others in the thread, conceal carry guys aren't supposed to seek out the active shooter, so even if you do have conceal carry guys on campus they aren't guaranteed to eliminate the shooter (you'd need a pretty good density of firearms to pull that off, which would proportionally increase the risk of the aforementioned idiots). Answering effectively would probably require actual research to determine the number of lives you'd save (from crime prevention and active shooters) to the number of lives you'd lose (from incidents, crime, and suicide) on a campus setting, especially compared to the wider world (including comparable suburban and urban environments).

>>32153582
Because you are an employed security guard with a contract not just some random person who happens to carry

>>32153650
You have to be 21 to get a CCW in most states, and by that point you're 1 year away from being a grad student. So either you've gotten that kind of heavy drinking out of your system, or you're probably not on campus anymore anyway.

>>32153582
You are literally a security guard contracted to do a job. You are not the average Joe with an LTC. It is your responsibility to see to the security of your job site. A concealed carrier's responsibility extends only to them and their family. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>32153719
>only to them and their family
Actually, No. That is legally not true.

How do cops everywhere else in the city/state/country do it? There are concealed carriers literally everywhere- you don't hear about cops constantly shooting them, because it's generally not a problem.

>>32153738
Correct self defense applies to self, property, and other people per the supreme court.

>>32153738
You're thinking about duty to rescue, aren't you?

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>>32152193
but i wanna be a hero
--/k/

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>>32152159
Yell "friendly" like in DayZ

What could go wrong if you shout friendly?

>>32152159
If you see someone shooting unarmed people chances are that he's a baddie.

>>32153582
>Securifag here
>Then how the hell do you explain my contact giving me a gun and telling us all to shoot someone who is shooting up our site?
>Thats literally my job
You just answered your own question.

For you're own sake, I hope you are trolling and not an actual security guard, in which case I would be deeply concerned for your own safety

>>32152159
If the state trusts an individual to responsibly carry a weapon, it should be permissible on the common grounds of a state university.

>>32152194
>Also, carrying concealed isn't really meant for that. It's meant for if your life is directly threatened, not seeking out an active shooter.
Seriously just had this argument at Thanksgiving.

>People shouldn't carry in certain areas
>They should do the "wild west' thing and give up their guns at the entrance, that way they'll still feel safe but there won't be guns everywhere
>Besides, they'd just miss and shoot someone innocent when they go fight the bad guy
>That's what cops are for, they're trained for these things and know how to shoot

>>32154216
*Pop*
*Pop*
*Crack*
*Pop*
*Crack*
ded

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>>32152159
The guy screaming "allahu ackbar" is a good bet.

>>32152159

The same fucking way it happens every day, in every place that isn't a gun free college campus.

Do you even know how many guns you walk past every day? How many people are licenced to carry (if required) in your state? How many are doing it anyway, Illegally? You don't even know, and you're worried about them doing the same thing in one additional location.

>>32152159
See, Libs have a massive problem with projection when dealing with firearm issues. And a lot of other issues, really. A mass shooting is really fucking unlikely, maybe I just want campus carry because college campuses have a higher rape rate than most other places outside of prisons. Maybe I want to be able to carry so I don't get fucked and saddled with a half-black kid on my way back from chemistry.

If there is a mass shooting, well, I'm not fucking Rambo. If I hear shooting, I'm moving away from it if I can, not towards it. If I can't get out, if I'm trapped in some room, that's when I turn out the lights, get out my little bitch purse gun and get down on my belly somewhere with a good view of the door. Bastard won't know what hit him.

>>32152159

Ideally if there was a mass shooter a ccer would stay where they are and not look for the shooter so if and when the shoother comes in that room he's gonna blasted.

If the ccer is going through the school or whatever with his gun drawn I can see how people could confuse him for the shooter.

>>32154847
you mean a half white kid

>>32152193
This. Unless the shooter is within view and reliable engagement distance, you should be getting the fuck outta there or shelter in place and engage if the shooter comes to your location.

In the unlikely event that the shooting starts somewhere with multiple carries that would draw in such a situation in the room, you can only hope everyone has the situational awareness to ID the real threat over everyone else who may draw and fire.

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>>32152159
>>32152291

I’ve discussed this with anons here before.
My take from it:

A shooter is going to look completely different in every way from someone carrying. Anyone will instinctively know the difference, trained or untrained.

Looking at pictures, video and articles from past shootings (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Pulse), the shooter is going to have one or all of these qualities:
>overtly “military” or “tactical” clothing (cargo pants, combat boots, gloves, vest)
>un-concealable or impractical to conceal weapons (Aurora had a shotgun and tear gas grenades, Pulse had an AR variant, Columbine had shotguns and a Tec-9, pic related was dual-wielding)
>movement is aggressive. They never expect to meet armed resistance (because they go to gun-free zones), so they stride around with their weapons up, not seeking cover.

Conversely, someone who is concealed carrying or even OC’ing:
>dressed like an everyday person
>has a reasonable-sized handgun, nothing too extreme
>moves carefully and deliberately, maybe with gun pointed up, but clearly exercising discipline. Might just be behind cover.

So between the guy crouching behind a wall in khakis, a button-down shirt with an M&P shield pointed at the floor, and the autist strolling around in a budget Neo cosplay with an AR, who do you think is the shooter?
No one is going to get these two confused.

>>32152194
>>32152214
>>32152193
Y'all speak for yourselves. Don't go projecting "the purpose of carrying" on the rest of us. I'm going to run towards the gunfire. I carry to stop the bad guys, not just protect myself.

>>32154847
>purse carry

Pig disgusting

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>>32152159
just follow the noise of autistic screeching to find the mass shooter.

>>32152235
>stylish armband
We SS now

>>32152199
(you)

>>32152159
This situation doesn't happen anywhere else that cc is allowed? Why would it magically start happening on campus?

>>32152159
I hope you're trolling.

>>32155055
>female likes to defend herself and also wear dresses/tight pants etc.

>"Pig disgusting"

Kys virgin faggot

>>32155032
You are an imbecile and will get yourself killed in an active shooter situation. You are not a 1337 oper8r, so please don't act like one.

>>32153650
You don't see other 21 year olds killing themselves in droves just because they can carry. The only variable here is college.

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>>32152193
This. Imagine the feminine numales limpwristed and crying in the corner while /k/ guards the entrance.

>gril: thanks anon for saving us!
>numale: gunth are bad ewwies
>police: Good job citizen
>/k/: its how we do

>>32152205
I'm an atheist and this desu

>>32155304
Then when Tyrone steals your purse, jamal can rape you.
Then they have your gun so they can rape the next girl even easier.

>>32155432
Already have guns

A ccw course instructor I used to know put it this way: bad guys don't have holsters.

>>32152159
The good guys arent pointing their weapons at cops and comply.
>>32154987
No, because if hes criminal then he is an evil white. If he goes to college and makes something out of himself due to his white genes, hes black. Just like Obama.

>>32152159
Most people wouldn't go chase down the shooter.

To keep the police from shooting you give them your description.

Everybody has a phone nowadays. Call 9-1-1 let the dispatcher know your location, what you look like (what you are wearing + hair color should suffice) and how many are with you. Tell them you are carrying and willing to defend yourself + the group you are with. Request a call sign/secret knock/species of bird that the cop will mimic so you know not to be aggressive toward that entrance when they clear your location.

The thing I wonder is whether the police will prioritize clearing you if they know you have a decent chance of defending yourself.

If you pull your CC and neutralize an active shooter, once you believe the situation is stable, you need to get on your knees and put your hands behind your head when the police arrive. They'll probably slam you to the ground and handcuff you and you will be treated as the perpetrator. This is a pretty natural reaction for the cops to have. It'll all be resolved later, but you need to comply unless you want to get shot.

>>32155974
Good point. The best way from keeping from getting shot (in any interaction with the police) is to comply.

But as with any other type of defensive shooting, you may want to call 9-1-1 and let them know you have neutralized the threat and are willing to comply 100%. If they haven't gone go in yet, the officers might get your description before and be far less likely to shoot you.

>>32152159
Like this, OP.

1. Active shooter shows up.

2. CCW kills him, then re-holsters.

3. 5 to 10 minutes later the police show up.

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>>32152159
if everything goes right the "bad guy" will already be dead when the cops show up. If everything goes wrong then the cops will be rolling up to a bunch of dead people regardless, so id rather have a fighting chance
also if you have a ccw and are stuck in the middle of something like this, call 911 and tell them you have a legal ccw and describe what youre wearing. Odds are it will get lost in the chatter but it may not, and in any event if you do get shot you can at least say you tried

>>32152159
Well the person who is behind cover and not shooting everyone indiscriminately probably isn't the shooter.
And the one walking about shooting anything that moves probably is

>>32152159

The first guy to start shooting people is generally the shooter. Alternately, the guy shooting everyone he sees.

>>32153582

Because you're paid to do that? But even then, as a guy who has worked management for a security company, I can guarantee that nowhere in your employment agreement does it say that you're supposed to go hunter-killer.

You're responsible for the security of the site, moreover the personnel security, in which case you're still better off rounding up anybody you can find and speeding them away to a defensible position.

>>32155666

Not him, but I guess you know better than all of the experts who recommend against purse carry.

Thank God you've come to us, we were lost.

Nobody but you knows more than the numerous cops, MP's, SOCOM guys, and SD analysts behind our training communities.

Besides, you're not a female, you're a mentally ill faggot.

>>32152159
Shoot the turbans and burqas

>>32152235
Anon, you're confusing Humans vs Zombies with Campus Carry.

>during a mass shooting everyone with a CCW will just start wandering the halls with their gun out looking for the shooter

Call them an idiot and move on, there is no communicating with someone that delusional. If the concept of having a gun on you and enough knowledge to effectively use it translates into a Hollywood style shootout in every situation for them, then the conversation won't go anywhere. In most scenarios the few people that actually would bother carrying all day at a campus are pretty much guaranteed to just help safeguard and barricade the area they find themselves in when word reaches them of an attack, not turn into John McClane and end up crawling through the ventilation system.

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>>32152159
I agree with carry conceal but THE ONLY WAY to truly defend yourself if a school/college shooter is in your location is to hold up a four-of-clubs card and yell "PATH OF LIGHT".

The shooter will undoubtedly be a /pol/ack and will recognise you as one of his own, leaving you in peace.

>>32156455
How about to just be nice to your fellow whites? It has worked out for one guy at Columbine.

>>32152291
Why is >>32152275 retarded?

>>32156025
>you may want to call 9-1-1
No you don't. 911 is going to be packed full of people in full panic.

Call their non-emergency line, the information will get out faster.

>>32152159
>How do you defend against this argument?
I shoot holes in it until it stops.

>>32152159
>bad guy
shoots everyone
>good guy
only shoots one guy

/thread

>>32156329
As one of those yes purse carry is horrendously suboptimal. That said so is being unarmed so judgement call on your situational awareness and training if it is better to have or not have. Also consider derringers with garter belts. Had to briefcase carry for a few years so familiar with this kind of complication with looking presentable and not being helpless

>>32154847
Actually, studies show that campuses have a lower rape rate than the surrounding communities, and are actually one of the safer locations when it comes to rape.

The studies that spread the misinformation about college rape rates have been debunked numerous times.

>>32158083
>The studies that spread the misinformation about college rape rates have been debunked numerous times.
But, anon, just because the studies define acts as rape despite the respondents not defining it as such doesn't mean the studies are wrong. It just means that people don't know enough to decide when they've been raped!

>>32156329
You know what's worse than carrying one in your purse? Not having one at all! Woahhh.

>>32155032
>overtly “military” or “tactical” clothing (cargo pants, combat boots, gloves, vest)

Okay so /k/ is fucked

The one shutting himself is the good guy.

>>32152159
who is dat testicle terrorist?

>>32152246
i carry at uaa anyway :D
expelled or not, im not dying in a liberal temple on my knees

>>32153582
Because that's your job you retarded faggot. Anon was talking about regular concealed carriers in his post.