Military Suppressors

because youre a faggot and i hate you and i hate fags so fuck you no gun silencers for anybody they are all mine

>>32140128
Cons
> bullet drop affected negatively
> not cricket
> adds weight to the front
> wouldn't do much in a fire fight

Pros
> bullet spread reduced
> stealth is optional for this mission
> can be taken off and put back in seconds

Probably comes down to money and weight OP

>>32140128
Extra weight without signifigant combat benefit. Also makes the weapon harder to maneuver in tight places like buildings and urban areas. Both of which were major reasons why the M4 was adopted to replace the M16.

>>32140148
Ouch. My feelings.

>PLOT TWIST

http://ameriforce.net/us-marine-corps-experimenting-silencing-every-single-gun-infantry-battalion/

>In a series of experiments this year, units from 2nd Marine Division will be silencing every element of an infantry battalion — from M4 rifles to .50 caliber machine guns.

Cons:

>cost
> weight

Two things the military hates

>>32140128
The video that screenshot is from is dope. So much brrrrrt

>>32140128
This video made me have a dream I was being chased by a Reaper drone over a desert.
Why am A10 video would do that, I have no idea.

>>32140194
> bullet drop affected negatively
> bullet spread reduced

What the fuck are you even talking about

>>32140128
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/11/23/silent-battalion-marine-unit-suppress-all-weapons/
I see you've seen an article about the Marines doing it.
Anyhow my concern would mostly be the bulk and how hot they get. The heat in turn creates mirages which can fuck with your shooting.

>>32140213
this
also cost

>>32140128
hearing protection is cheaper and more effective. dust is mitigated with a spray of water or using tracers and walking fire or a flash hider that has no ports on the bottom (like the A2 which minimizes dust).

>>32140128
Because for your regular grunt the bangs are a plus, not a con.

Stealth is secondary to suppressing the enemy, and a lot of bang will keep their heads down as much as bullet does.

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>>32140194
A suppressor actually increases muzzle velocity

>>32140128

you have to understand military weapons go through millions of rounds in their lifetime, a suppressed m4 would wear out earlier from the extra gas pressure from the suppressor. the military wants their guns to last longer.

>>32140299
He's referencing Battlefield, where they lower bullet velocity for some reason. I think they also increase spread, to discrouage their use at range.

>>32140284
They actually found that fire became more accurate with the suppressors. While lots of bangs will surpress an untrained or inexperienced enemy, only accurate suppressing fire will keep a trained and experienced soldier down

>>32140260

hes either trying to be funny or thinks vidya is real

>>32140257
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ClQcUyhoxTg

>>32140128
Because:
>baffle strikes because PV2 Dickwad didn't get issued a suppressor alignment rod, destroying the can and injuring himself/others
>they're expensive
>they add weight and length to guns specifically designed to minimize weight and length
>yet another controlled item to keep track of
>they're expensive
The military does use them. Even as far down as actual regular line units. But it would be dumb to have them as a 100% issue item.

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>>32140299
Never thought about it. You are getting some more barrel length after all, although a less efficient one.

>>32140316
Yes,that is why it would make more sense to equip SF and such, but not grunt with them.

>>32140128

Suppressors would overheat after like 2 mags.

>>32140350
How delicate are suppressors? Never had a chance to fiddle with one.

>>32140367
They're relatively impact resistant.

High and prolonged heat kills them.

Baffle strikes kill them.

High and prolonged heat, on top of the damage it does directly to the can, increases the likelihood of baffle strikes. Being used by retards and beaners (face it, niggers join support elements) increases the likelihood of impacts, high and prolonged heat, and baffle strikes.

>>32140367

It's not that they're delicate, it's that their job is to trap tons of very hot gasses as they exit the gun.
After a mag or two, they become very hot.
To the point of burning your skin if you grab them right away.
If you are in a fire fight and shoot a lot with a suppressor on, you'll have problems.

>>32140347
No as in the grunts started shooting better. Basically all those bangs made them think they were having an impact. When they tossed on the suppressors they found that the grunts started paying attention to the impact of their shots.
So why not give it to grunts if it's helping them shoot better?

>>32140388
>>32140390
Do they deteriorate with each shoot like on Metal Gear, or is that BS?

>>32140392
Because at their lightest it's still 5" and a pound extra hanging off their muzzles, while individual rifle fire is a relatively unimportant aspect of nearly every engagement?

>>32140405

As long as you don't abuse it, a suppressor will last a long time.

>>32140405
Yes, but at an extraordinarily slow rate.

Even without cleaning a quality 5.56 or 7.62 can should last 10,000+ rounds before it either breaks or loses effectiveness, and even perfunctory cleaning can double or triple that.

Pistol and rimfire suppressors can generally be taken apart for cleaning. Centerfire rifle suppressors are usually welded shut since they deal with assloads more pressure, and the few take-apart cans there are for centerfire rifles tend to suck (the threads seize and you can't actually get it apart, or the endcap blows off).

>>32140237
You kidding me?
The military loves weight!
>Finally make ammo, comms and body armor under 60lbs
>Well Spc. McFucknuts here's ammo for the SAW
>P.S. Fuck your joints

>>32140148
Whoa there friend you might need to slow it down.

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>>32140148

>>32140336
>They're expensive.
Not really. Only because federal law inflates the price. Bulk order a couple hundred thousand and they would be dirt cheap.

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SF and spooks frequently use suppressors.

cost, weight, and length are the main negatives. Weight that far forward really sucks when you gotta carry it. And when you're kicking doors you generally want a shorter gun.

I work with Maintenance for an Infantry Battalion

It has very little benefit in a lot of scenarios
It means Extra Maintenance
It means carrying more weigh
It means we have to spend more money acquiring and maintaining it.
Grunts are stupid and if it isn't dummy-corded, the WILL lose it. Now tell me how to dummy-cord a suppressor.

>>32140467
My first thought was that they may start introducing suppressors way in the future as some health and safety measure for your hearing. Then I remembered they don't give two shits about your knee cartilage, why would they start caring about your hearing?

>>32140194
Ok MW3

What about integrally suppressed barrels? Or maybe some kind of internal coolant to keep the heat down

>>32141760
Same issues as other suppressors, although the balance would be a little better.

>Or maybe some kind of internal coolant to keep the heat down
Those are water jackets. Not worth the weight for mobile soldiers, they were only reaaally useful in trench warfare

>>32141599
>Now tell me how to dummy-cord a suppressor.
Butt plug

>>32140128
because baffle strikes

>>32140194
>> bullet drop affected negatively
Guess how we can tell you've never fired a suppressed weapon before?

>>32140284
>, and a lot of bang will keep their heads down as much as bullet does.
But this bang is produced by bullet and it doesn't goes away.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/519874.pdf

>>32140311
Spread no, velocity yes,

It was implied the player was also using sub sonic ammo for what ever reason, hence the MV reduction.

>>32141843
What about something a little more modern, there's plenty of chemical coolants that could be used to keep the barrel cool

>>32142110
Maybe like a thin layer of some kind of chemical, instead of a whole tank of water over the barrel

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>>32140273
It's a fucking metal tube. You're telling me no one's figured out to take seamless metal pipe, stamped parts and solder that shit together?

>>32140260
He must have went to the EA/Activision school of infantry.

>>32142112
A small amount of coolant wouldn't help enough to be worth it. The water in water jackets was a large heatsink, and was convenient because water is easy to get and boils off (removing the hottest matter) at a temperature below the softening temp of the metal. In other cooling systems, like a car or a fridge, the coolant is a way to move heat through a radiator to the surrounding air. A car has a radiator and fan, a fridge has a wide thin radiator on the back. A gun doesn't have any place to put a large radiator or fan system.

If you really want a cooling system it would be possible to put a fan under the handguard and use a finned/fluted barrel, probably with a heatshield so the hot air goes across the barrel and doesn't all transfer to the handguard.
There's also pulling air through the bore of the gun, which some competition shooters do to cool the gun between stages, but I don't think it can be done on a gun that's ready to fire.

>>32141567
thats an airsoft gun

>>32142187
proofs? Several sites have that image saying that it's Russian gear captured by ISIS

>>32142187
main article
http://armamentresearch.com/russian-sof-equipment-captured-by-is-in-syria/

>>32141599
Maybe we should make better soldiers rather then recruiting from the local high school for cod and halo nerds

>>32141409
thsoe would be heavy steel suppressors

good lightweight suppressors are made of inconel and titanium, both of which are expensive metals by themselves.

>>32142228
Too expensive. We can pay less qualified people AND not give suppressors! So much money saved.

>>32142101
I read it. It was interesting.
When they say "Loudness of projectile signature" do they refer to the bullet passing by or the bullet being fired?

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>>32142338
Already figured it out, and it indeed refers to the bullet passing by.
It's surprising, the loudness of the weapon itself is basically irrelevant, at least as far as suppression itself goes. If they aren't shooting at you you won't put your head down.

>>32142338
CRACK----THUMP,
Go play arma for a bit, bunch of folks use a GPMG with a suppressor and will hold your ass behind a rock.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb4BP7lZnk0

skip to 10:00

>>32141409
So why don't other countries that don't have the same federal laws as the US use them?

>>32142374
that video was very frustrating to watch, guy needs to give up ever creating another video

>>32142228
Recruiters have quotas to make, if they could recruit only the smartest and best they would, but if you need 2+ people a month you take who you can get.

>mfw the Corps says to get more females
>smart females go to college
>fit females go to college
>white trash females join the army
>sheboons join the army
>oh you need a green card?
>sure thing Esmé sign here!
>oh you cant do any pull ups?
>dont worry the corps is lowering standards and now you can do 12 pushups to pass your PFT instead

>>32142701
redundancy,

If you turn his vids into drinking games it gets fun.

>>32140223
>Silencer
>On a .50 cal
That thing is probably bigger then the gun.

>>32142739
Not really.

https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/langwaffen-2/bt-qd-rifle-suppressor-cal-50-bmg

>>32140260
>>32140299
>>32142096
>stealth is optional for this mission
you literally have to be autistic not to see that hes joking about some vidya

>>32142368
I don't know , the first determinant is volume of fire. Personal story but I knew some who used and was around a PPSh-41 in combat. He claimed as soon as one started firing everyone laid down. I assume it's extreme rate of fire/sound had that effect.

>>32141599
Manufacture one with a lanyard loop

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>>32140194

What the fuck are you o about? i have several suppressed funs and that shit is wrong.

OP, the NZ army will be suppressing all its new M4's.

>>32140194
>bullet drop affected negatively
Are you kidding? You'll gain velocity if anything firing the same rounds.

>>32140194
Dont forget lower damage

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Jezus, this thread is full of idiots and trolls.

No, suppressors do not hamper accuracy and do not affect range adversely.
No, suppressors are not hugely expensive if bought in military quantity. Fairly simple designs can be pretty effective and not complex or expensive to build. It's mostly because it's a niche item that many companies have such a high mark up.
No, suppressors do not necessarily overheat after 2 mags. Machine gun suppressors exist and work quite well. If shot too much, they do radiate heat and make you visible at night, but that's something you can prevent with a suitable jacket.

The main problem I see is that a lot of our current enemies tend to be impressed by suppressive fire and can be driven off by volume of fire. If suppressed guns become the standard, I suspect they might not so easy to frighten.

Think of how the navy seals and marsoc would use huge volume of fire while displacing when encountering hostiles. It was a lot of sound & lead in a short period of time & made the enemy think twice about pursuing.

I always wondered why the army didn't use mini suppressors (not silent, but closer to hearing safe) when clearing houses etc though, so I see it as something in that direction.

>>32140128
The marines are equipping a whole battalion with them as an experiment. If they like it, it may become standard issue.

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>>32142162
underrated

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>>32145169
Made this so all suppressor threads like this could be answered by it.
Hope you like it

>>32146169
That is the worst crop in history -6/10

>>32145169
>image search
>no matches
Impressive anon, thanks for the solid info.

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>>32142034
Underrated post

>>32140194
People still fall for those myths.

>>32141760
>>32142112
>>32142182
The more we discuss this the more this gets either too complicated for a grunt to take care of in the feild or too expensive especially for the Marines to implement. Maybe the army could do it.

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>>32146181
Thank yu, Im honord.

>>32140128
because i need those shitheads who are shooting at me to hear my 240 cut loose

>>32140128
You're forgetting that suppressors increase the rate that the barrel(and the suppressor itself) heats up. On an ar, it's not THAT big of a deal, but on an MG, that's a disaster

>>32140321
I chuckled

>>32140128
Some Marine asked the same question, and now the jarheads are outfitting a whole battalion to test the concept.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/11/22/corps-put-silencers-whole-infantry-battalion.html

>>32146169
>>32145169
Well I don't think I've seen you in thebNFA threads, sweet collection anon
Which is best for 308 out of an ar10?
How quiet can you get 9mm and how?
For .22?
300blk?
Can you fire buckshot out of the shotgun suppressor or just slugs?

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>>32140148

Because it is one more piece of equipment that costs 100% more than it should thanks to stupid fucking military contracts, it is one more thing that stupid fucking soldiers including officers end up losing and everybody having to comb the fucking desert/forest/ass crack of satan looking for, and it is one more thing that needs full accountability at the end of the day as the armorer (if they're not assholes) tries to get you to turn in and get the fuck out of the company for the day after not even shooting once the entire day. That's why normal soldiers will never get one OP.

>>32152673
When suppressors are standard issues they are gonna be much cheaper m8.

>>32152680
Just like everything else issued to your standard soldier right?

>>32152715
Yes, just look at the M4.

Suppressor itself is not even hard to make, it's just expensive due to rarity.

>>32152723
M4s in the armory were priced at something like 2,300 dollars. I don't remember the exact price but that was the rough replacement cost. I'd take your average 1,000 dollar AR-15 over our M4s. Only thing an M4 has over a 1k AR-15 is a full auto switch which doesn't matter. Same for our plates. Replacement cost for one plate on paper was in the 300 dollar range. Most everything is overpriced in government contracts.

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>>32151227
This is the correct answer.

Initial testing show improved communication in the chain of command.

>>32140350

How isva suppressor supposed to overheat you dipshit the thing won't catch flame if anything your handguard will

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>>32140148
fucking what?!

>>32140148
dial it about 20 percent back there eh

>>32144621
>the NZ army will be suppressing all its new M4's
Both of them? You sure they have the budget for that?

>>32142755
>14" long
>5lbs
>still doesn't bring .50BMG anywhere close to hearing-safe

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>>32145169
Small arms suppressing effect doesn't depends on the gun noise:
>>32142101


>Think of how the navy seals and marsoc would use huge volume of fire while displacing when encountering hostiles.
Yeah, and they are who drive suppressors technology forward now asking for suppressors working with their volume of fire tactics
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2016armament/18305_Kent.pdf

>>32140128
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/23/marine-corps-experiment-silences-entire-infantry-b/

>>32153137
Beat me to it.

>>32140194
we're talking about real guns, not video games

>>32152787
>M4s in the armory were priced at something like 2,300 dollars
Source?

I don't remember M4 being that costly.

>>32140128

Adding a suppressor to standard issue small arms will probably become standard with the continued use of combustion based firearms.

There really isn't a reason it isn't already standard besides cost, and it isn't really considered necessary because defends funds can be put to better use else ware.

As mass production costs drop and the complexity and quality of infantry gear increases (as it does every generation of new equipment) suppressors will without a doubt be included before long.

They are already standard kit for many SOF, Special Forces soldiers, Navy Seals, Rangers, Commandos and the like.

>>32153035
>both of them

Yeah, they'll be suppressing both the one for the north AND south island

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>>32140148
????

>>32140213
>without signifigant combat benefit

Hiding your position isn't a huge benefit?

>>32153099
Nice link about heat management. Coincidentally I just learned about the Lewis gun's cooling system a couple hours ago and they referenced it several times

>>32153319
They're not. FN sells the military M4a1s at the tune of 400 dollars, not fucking 2300. This is the figure that comes from FN themselves. Now when you throw an ACOG and all the other overpriced bullshit, then yes, maybe it'd reach a price of 2300. Most likely not as military procurement cuts prices by more than half as the seller makes their money from sheer bulk and long contracts.

>>32140128
look at me i am Prof. Farnsworth i am a war nerd lol

>>32140128
another con is if the weapon is quite it won't stop the enimes as in enimies won't hear it so won't take cover and won't suppress them

>>32140128
The Marines are testing giving an entire battalion suppressors for the reasons you give (mainly for hearing spoken commands more clearly and also to reduce the psychological impact of firing; making Marines focus more on making sure their puffs of dust at the far end become puffs of pink mist.

>>32140194
>stealth is optional for this mission

kek

No matter how obvious you make it, /k/ will still get trolled.

>>32140128
most of this has already been covered, but anyway

they are heavy, and add weight right where you don't want it
they can get super hot during sustained fire, which is a mild hazard to the operator, but more seriously can cause deformation leading to...
malfunction, usually caused by the bullet striking the baffles. seriousness varies
it's not really that quiet if you are using regular ammo
takes time to put one on/take one off
makes the rifle cumbersome, especially in vehicles
just one more thing that costs money or can be lost by a grunt
reduced psychological effect on enemies, which I'd be inclined to guess is a fairly big deal. there are probably pros and cons there

>>32146169
says suppressors can fire sustained without dangerous overheating, maybe it's true
but I know for sure that they sure as hell can overheat, not sure what makes the diference one way or another

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Wouldn't suppressing your rifle guarantee that it's going to get filthed the fuck up after every extended engagement?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/09/suppressed-rifles-get-very-dirty/

>>32140336
he doesn't need a fucking suppressor alignment rod, if he fucking fires his rifle getting zero he's not gonna blow his can up in combat

>>32140194
This is not Battlfield