Longsword

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>>32105261
>What is your opinion on the hand and half sword (also named longsword)?
lrn2 sword nomenclature:

>gladius=sword
>spatha=longsword=knightly one handed sword; longer than a sword/gladius, used from horseback (=used by knights=guy who have a horse, lat. equites - those to whom a horse is/belongs)
>long sword=sword used with two hands

>hand and half sword=D&D fantasy term, doesn't exist

>>32105312
i think you fucked up even more with that explanation

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>>32105261
Sexy as fuck

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>>32105345
you don't have to accept it. it's no less true because of that though.

>>32105345
this, "Das Schwert zu anderthalb Hand" is actually a historic correct term. All hand and a half swords are longswords, not all longswords are half and a hand.
Other than that I'd be rather careful with making up sword typologies, safe for you actually plan to write your PhD thesis on it, in which case you are more than welcome.

>>32105261

They're nice.

Literally the best sword

>>32105378
>All hand and a half swords are longswords, not all longswords are half and a hand
this is what i needed! thanks!

>>32105378
>throw in a german term and hope nobody will notice you're full of shit

but I did my friend. and I actually am German.

>>32105421
Schön, dann kannst du Dumpfbratz ja hier etwas Bildung nachholen: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderthalbh%C3%A4nder

>>32105261
Reminder that nobody is more autistic, pedantic and generally unsufferable than swordfags

>>32105442
Depends on, high end swordfags actually are great people, but the mall ninja tier swordfags should be removed from the gene pool.
>just been to inspect the lot for an upcoming historic arms auction
>really nice folk

>>32105442
thank you for bitching on this thread, this makes you a better man

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>>32105430
D&D Zauberer bitte, stirb in einem Foyer....

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>>32105474
Nice, you downloaded somebody elses pic, I saw this going around here for quite some time, always posted by idiots that tried to get themselfes some credit
>mfw I am actually a HEMA instructor
>mfw I actually trade an collect historic arms
>mfw I started the eternal HEMA general over on /asp/
Geh Scheissen.

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Though swords are very beautiful, 1,5 hand swords are the sexiest of the bunch.

>>32105516
>Nice, you downloaded somebody elses pic

nope. Nice swords by Jan though.

>>mfw I am actually a HEMA instructor

HAHAHAH. let me laugh before I go to sleep....

>>32105547
>File: DSA1309BKS_2_l.jpg (667 KB, 2636x2032)

that looks literally nothing like the sword from the film.

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>>32105547
sexy is the right word, because there is no such thing as the best sword, but some simply look better than others.

>>32105560
I know, but it's still very nice looking.

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>>32105573
>>32105561
these are real swords, your pic is a SLO.

>>32105552
>I go to sleep
Yes, please do that, it is better for you and better for this thread. Thanks

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Really, really beautiful.

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>>32105585
Interesting enough, that was a prototype done by Szymon Chlebowski, for me...
>no it didn't end up with me, long complicated story

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>>32105588
>mimimimi i am the "HEMA instructor" of my 5 man jerk off crew respect my authority!
>I can't provide proof that "Das Schwert zu anderthalb Hand" exists anywhere outside of my D&D gaems and anything old than the Victorian era

>>32105312
>D&D fantasy term
Except it has been in use since the 1800's.

Reminder that Mordau is a meme equivalent to unscrewing your pommel and throwing it at the enemy.

>>32105615
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=schwert+zu+anderthalb+hand
>yes, you are a joke

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>>32105627
>Mordau

>>32105617
And still used today as fix term to describe a certain type of sword:
https://www.the-saleroom.com/de-de/auction-catalogues/hermann-historica-ohg/catalogue-id-srher10007/lot-fb82b84c-6cf6-4ce4-b539-a47b00fa4de6

>>32105642
>>32105617
you two fuckwits understand that curator terms for collection inventory items are't real, period names for items right? I guess you don't. But only RPGers would spend this much energy on defending the sname of their shitty weapons.

>>32105693
>But only RPGers would spend this much energy on defending the sname of their shitty weapons.
like....you?

>>32105693
wrong again newfriend, the term is first used in 1549, as "spada da una mano et mezza“, do your research.

>>32105732
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/lovino.html
16th century source using the term.

>>32105261
Best straight-forged sword

Good for stabby, slicey, and parry, can be employed against armored enemies, used in close quarters, and has two edges.

All around great all-rounder sword, can do anything.

Also this >>32105442

>>32105761
>can be employed against armored enemies
Nice try.

>>32105790
see mordhausing
>>32105644

There's also the same method used in enclosed space fighting, half swording, to drive the blade directly into armor gaps.

>>32105790

Half-swording is effective, bro.

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>>32105790

>>32105261
Hand and a half is a bastard sword. Not long sword.

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>>32105815

>>32105261
Awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmLaZHStmI

>>32105804
>>32105806
Yes, halfswording works, as a stop gap measure, but a sword is definitely not purpose built to fight armor normally, more likely it was used because of the rules for judicial duels between nobles in the 15th century HRE.
>I can also shoot with a rifle with AP ammo on a an APC and get lucky, doesn't make it really suited for the job.

>>32105821
it belongs to the long swords, just as the bastard sword does.

>>32105815
>>32105822
>ritualized judicial combat between nobles in the 15th century HRE

see here >>32105842

>>32105842
Exactly that, I just said "it can be employed", you're implying I said something like "it excels at".

Longsword's are versatile but as a consequence may not be the best at anything they can do, the gap left to be filled is up to the wielder.

By all means use a warhammer to give the knight internal bleeding.

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>>32105906
>Exactly that, I just said "it can be employed", you're implying I said something like "it excels at".
Fair enough, you're right, I was pedantic.
I just don't like it when the meme gets pushed to hard. There are some techniques you can employ against armored enemies, but most of the time you use the sword like a lever, wrestle the guy down and finish him of with a dagger.

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>>32105906
>By all means use a warhammer to give the knight internal bleeding.

pls stfu mememeister

>>32105949
>bleeding internally
>also bleeding externally

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>>32105949

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>>32105937
You better be careful or I'll suck your cock
>>32105949
What the fuck else is a blunt instrument used for, opening letters?

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>>32105994
>this
>blunt
>swiss halbards
>blunt

>>32105994
contrary to popular believe, poll axes, hammers, lucerne hammers, hallberds and the like do normally not work by blund force, but the spike or bec can actually penetrate plate. Likely not the center of a breast plate because they are strongest there, but at the sides, yes, like hacking a spike trough a car hood.

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>>32106011
check the spike, that's some serious non blunt can oppener

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>>32105644
Not sure what you're getting at here. If you're implying just because they're illustrated in a Talhoffer book they were somehow relevant to a battlefield you also have to accept:
- Some kind of bizarre fight between a man and woman where a man has a wooden mace and the woman has a morning star made of cloth. Also the man is trapped waist-deep in a pit.
- Oddjob was based on a real German man, only more badass because he used a felt hat
- Duel wielding spears and swords.

>>32106033
>>32106011
these spikes have been shown to penetrate modern 1.5mm thick carbon steel sheet metal

>>32106011
I was talking about a warhammer you fucking silly willy not a sword

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>>32106047
>- Some kind of bizarre fight between a man and woman where a man has a wooden mace and the woman has a morning star made of cloth. Also the man is trapped waist-deep in a pit.

that's not bizarre, the woman is given an advantage to level the field.

>- Oddjob was based on a real German man, only more badass because he used a felt hat

distract a guy with a superior weapon by throwing your hat in his face and throwing your bo shuriken like dagger at him? totally plausible.

>- Duel wielding spears and swords.

you've clearly never held either in your own hands or you would not be making stupid comments like that.

>>32106053
>I was talking about a warhammer you fucking silly willy not a sword

then what's that thing in my pic?

>>32106047
Judicial fighting is a world of its own, it has nothing to do with actual battles, but it did happen and Talhoffer was big on that.

>>32106050
Well, period breast plates (we talk quality here, not the munitions grade stuff) had distal tapper, and could be up to 4mm on the center of a breast plate. Also, the hardening is unique, you got glad hard steel on the outside, soft unhardened steel in the center and a medium hard layer on the inside, like a sandwich armor. Still puzzles me how they did it, but I saw the Analysis done by Alan Williams, and yeah, they really did that.
>glass hard on the outside
>you better get that angle perfectly right, otherwise it wont bite and just glance off.

>>32106050
Could you show us these examples you're talking about?

>>32106108
>Judicial fighting is a world of its own, it has nothing to do with actual battle
Yes, that's the point. The dumb shit you see won't realistically ever happen outside of the extremely artificial limitations of a judicial duel. Nobody outside of one will ever use their longsword like an extraordinarily shit pole-axe, they'll half-swording or be holding an entirely different weapon.

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>>32106108
>Judicial fighting is a world of its own, it has nothing to do with actual battles,

Everything you see in these pics are 100% valid techniques. battles however are formation fighting and the side with better command structure, better field overview and communication, better drummers and better logistics wins those. battles were fought between formations of spear spear-/pike men and helbardiers in armour like pic related.

>>32105312
Lol inorite what a fucking dweeb. Not knowing the different nomenclature between functionally identical items? Christ I bet he can never get pussy. Not you though, you're cool

>>32106225
I know quite a bit about judicial dueling, trust me, it is a world of its own, it has no parallels. And many techniques only work in that very special setting, and only with very special weapons.
Thats why Talhoffer is not that relevant for the German school of fencing in the end, despite the fact that he published numerous books.

>>32106252
>functionally identical items
I guess a pistol, an assault rifle and a battle rifle are also "functionally identical items"

>>32106267
>I know quite a bit about judicial dueling, trust me
ah fuck off, you know jack shit.

>>32106267
>trust me, it is a world of its own,
>>32106281
was what I meant. sorry for the ambiguity.

And Yes, I read a lot about the world of judicial duels in the HRE, dueling orders of varying cities, famous cases, famous combatants for hire, social structure of the fighters involved, in what case it could be used, how it was perceived at the time, where this practice origins from etc.
>some really crazy germanic shit

>>32106305
>And Yes, I read a lot about the world of judicial duels in the HRE, dueling orders of varying cities, famous cases, famous combatants for hire, social structure of the fighters involved, in what case it could be used, how it was perceived at the time, where this practice origins from etc.

Give ONE example you lying shit.

>>32106312
Wait, are you this guy >>32105312, stupid, ignorant and foul mouthed? You got btfo already, why try again.

>>32106341
Back up your claims.

>>32106353
What do you spermgargler want to know then?
One example? Gero and Waldo von Alsleben, 11 August 979, judicial duel, brother against brother.
You piece of shit likely didn't even knew that Talhoffer was a professional judicial fighter for hire, right? Love you halfwits, half a year of HEMA nooby training, but all mouth, no brains.

>>32105312
You actually know very little about this it seems. Most of that was inaccurate, lol.

>>32106526
>You actually know very little about this it seems. Most of that was inaccurate, lol.
adress something specific or away with you knave lest I give you a beating an strike your supper

>>32106558
>/tg/ shitter
Sometimes the stereotype is accurate.

>>32106558
Theres about 10 different replies that tell you what is wrong with your post. I recommend you read them, maybe you learn something.

>>32106585
>bandwagon jumper

wow, you must have really low self esteem to do that on an anonymous chinese cartoons board....

>>32105378
yeah, hand and a half swords or bastard swords are a smaller variant of longsword.
>>32105261
OP my opinion is this:
The two-handed Longsword is great for fighting in armor, where you have no need of a shield to parry blows. The hand-and-a-half variation might be a bit better for someone unarmored and wanting to use a shield sometimes, while still wanting a longer weapon for use in armor two-handed. Longswords are typically holdable in one hand, but you're not going to get full use out of it. The Bastard sword just makes it a little easier, and I dare say it was a cheaper option too.
Honestly it could have all been a fuckup by some swordsmith or apprentice.

>>32106600
>talks shit
>gets hit
>talks some more shit
>gets hit again
>talks some more shit

Seriously, can't you just trip or namefag, this way the grown ups could at least filter your posts and concentrate on the discussion.

>>32106395
P.S. if anyone is interested in judicial duells or the life of HAns Talhoffer, I can recommend this blog: https://talhoffer.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/1360-the-law-of-judical-duels-in-the-city-of-gelnhausen/

It has nice insight in the practices of the time

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>>32105312
>spatha=longsword

>>32106105
Pardon, are you referring to >>32105949?

If so then yeah forget the name of that type of polearm, you can totally use that to outright pierce the armor

I was referring to a big stupid chunk of shaped steel at the end of a stick that you'd see in movies or vidya

>>32105312
First post, worst post. lmao

>>32105442
thankyou, thankyou very much

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So much knowledge made obsolete by firearms.

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>>32105261
Mah Albion.

>>32108832
sauce?

>>32108858
Its so expensive looking but it's so simple.

>>32106612
>The hand-and-a-half variation might be a bit better for someone unarmored and wanting to use a shield sometimes, while still wanting a longer weapon for use in armor two-handed.
It is not about shield it is about fighting from horseback.

>>32108832
Fake and Gay.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBbBI5mEvQc

>>32109452
Man, that saber display in the beginning is fucking pretty

>>32105442
I'm sorry :(

>>32109452
>>32109483
Sword&buckler, rapier and saber were really damn cool to watch!
It's sad that longsword fencing has become such a meme.

>>32105261
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGSo5e4ahcE
I sure hope you guys are fencing with sharps and without protection :^)

>>32105261

Would be a neat bayonet.

>>32109850
They're going to have to change how the scoring works eventually. Not only is it not very interesting to watch, there's no way its promoting historical accuracy.

>>32109892
>>32109850
If anything the fetishistic worshiping of surviving texts is the real problem. Anybody who thinks ritualistically try to imitate what's found in the texts is somehow better than whatever works is an idiot, especially since one man has to stand there like an idiot doing nothing like an idiot in order to make these illustrations work.

>>32109155
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s

>>32110275

Think the point of the illustrations is to give the person learning from them general stances and ways to counter certain types of swings/maneuvers.

>>32105421
Is this hunter 1/2/3-1 actual? It's his kind of shitposting.

>>32110275
Using "whatever works" isn't the way to do historical swordsmanship though. Besides, drilling a technique and using it are two very different things. If you don't understand how and why training those things is done, why do you feel the need to discuss the validity of the techniques displayed?

>>32110706
>Using "whatever works" isn't the way to do historical swordsmanship though.
>mcdojo something
>snake oil something

>>32106612
Bastard swords typically have that slimmer section of the grip to encourage holding the pommel, possibly also there to help maintain the original balance of the design while using a shorter blade. It might have been a reject gone right but after that it was very deliberate.

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>>32105312
Nice sources you have there.
http://www.thearma.org/terms4.htm
>>32105561
Bullshit there are objectively superior designs depending on intended use and steel available at the time.
That some designs are more appealing than others is because we find beauty in efficiency. With swords more than any other weapon (hence the obsession by many autists) this rings true as they are subject to finely balanced proportions and compromises in order to be effective.
Their evolution is more that of metalurgy than artistic design.

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>>32111125
Same fag forgot to add this.
http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=316206

>>32111125
>samefag is back
>oh look, its ARMA, the running gag of the HEMA scene

>>32111158
Same as who?
Arma was just an example to prove a roman classification of blades does not apply to later developments. You dont have to take it all at face value but its proves the point non the less.

>>32111167
Sorry, meant you are this moron here >>32105312

>>32111171
So despite everything I wrote calling >>32105312 out on having no clue you suspect I were him non the less?
Do you want me to deconstruct his pasta from a final fantasy forum even more or has being here too long just taken its toll on you?

>>32111192
Yo chill, I said sorry, didn't I?

>>32111196
Pardon my reading comprehension dawg apology accepted.

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>>32109863
Fencing with sharp sabres is actually a german tradition in our fraternities.
They are not doing it right though.
You dont move but parry and flinching is akin to being hit ending the duel.
Its a right of passage to ensure your fellow is no coward nowadays one is so coddled there is practically no chance of injury in sanctioned duels let alone death which was the entire point.

>>32108832
>>32109850
>>32110275
>>32110706
>>32110636
The problem is how scoring works like anon said. A light touch with the swords shouldn't count as a hit. If they can somehow reliably distinguish glancing blows from solid hits, I think more stances/techniques will come out besides posta breve

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>>32111373
Maybe something like a differently coloured newtonian gel pads would do the trick?
If a glance can not displace enough of the gel it would simply not be counted where a strong enough blow would effectively displace the gel and reveal the differently coloured surface beneath.
So long as these pads are not prone to breakage or at least cheap enough to make them disposable it could settle the petty glancing blow disputes.

I cant find anything on it but on another note it in theory a non newtonian fluid should convert some of the energy of an impact into heat like a train buffer. If the fluid were mixed with something that causes a discoloration if heated it would effectively display how hard the impact was.

>>32105312
>>hand and half sword=D&D fantasy term, doesn't exist

its been used for 120+ years, and is synonymous with Bastard Sword. (a term which can be traced back to about 1410 in english, older still in french.)