Missile General

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>>32103570
ESSM is the best mid-range SAM. Nothing says fuck your anti-ship missiles like a Tico with 200 interceptors fit into less than half it's VLS capacity.

>>32103592
Tor is still neat tho.

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>>32103570

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>>32103570
Is there any word on new P-series development?

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>>32103601

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>>32103602

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>>32103570

>>32103699
What are the best MANPADS as of now?

How much range and firepower does the average SSM have over traditional ballistic cannon shells? Say comparing it to an Iowa class' 16" cannon.

>>32103750
16 inch guns reach to about 24 miles. By comparison, a Harpoon missile will reach out to 67 nmi, on top of however far the strike aircraft carried it. Other missiles, like Tomahawk, SLAM-ER, LRASM? Forget it, no contest. P-700s can loft 500kt nuclear warheads 388 miles at Mach 2.5, or 1.6 while seaskimming. No fucking contest.

>>32103852
So basically if you were going to create a modern battleship instead of big turrets you'd just have a massive battery of SSMs

>>32103918
A modern battleship would have railguns and plenty of VLS cells.

>>32103570
Missiles are a technology which is about to become obsolete thanks to self-guided rail gun shells and lasers.

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>>32103918
Welcome to the Kirov class battlecruiser comrade.

Armor? We dont need that, it's of no use once shooting starts.
Turrents? No comrade, that's not how it works.
Missiles? Da, da tovarisch, we have many of those, in fact the ship is full of them, they call it matchbox fleet for a reason.

>>32103918
>>32103918
Yes, but also land attack and plenty of air defense weapons. Nuclear power and plenty of radars, Fire Scouts, SeaRAM, the works. The USN actually has the early warning and surface search capability to make a big arsenal ship worth the cost and risk.

>>32103592
>ESSM is the best mid-range SAM.

>semi active junk

no.

>>32104134
Block II soon comrade.

>>32104101
Kirov class are some sexy looking ships

>>32103918
Possibly something like a grid of VLS cells replacing the turrets, only with the capability to reload the cells from below. The former powder/shell magazine spaces would be given over to missile mags and the autoloader shuttle.

Pros- you can load/fire the missiles you need as you need them. Ability to reload cells on the fly, even in bad weather or in combat. Ability to build mission-tailored missile packages on-site. Less deck space dedicated to VLS cells, assuming each turret is replaced by a 5X6 cell grid.

Cons-might be an overall slower rate of fire, depending on how fast the reloader can stuff the cells. A lucky hit could jam the reloader. A luckier hit could gang-fire missiles in the magazine or loading queue.

Dunno, it needs work. I'm envisioning something like the carousel that the 76 mm Oto Melara has.

>>32103592

How fast can it fire those missiles though?

Can it kill 20 AShMs it doesn't see until horizon?

>>32103918

Hell no.

A 5 inch gun can now reach out nearly a hundred miles. 16 inch guns are 70 years old.

A modern 16 inch gun could easily shell things over 700 miles away with the right munitions.

>>32104320
Very. VLS launched ESSM shots start at 2 and scale up based on threat priority. But to answer your question, it's just a midrange SAM. The idea is that airborne sensors spot seaskimming missiles at a distance and bigger SM-2s and 6s thin the heard first. Also, 20 is a smallish number for today's environment; hence why Admiral Nakhimov is getting capacity for 80 Kalibur or Oniks missiles.

>>32104101

>armor is of no use

I know, man

Police should stop wearing body armor!
Soldiers should stop wearing plates!
Firefighters should stop wearing helmets!
Tanks don't need all that bulky armor!
Planes don't need hardened concrete shelters!

Why do Americans use guns anyways lol

OMG everyone is sooo dumb amirite?!

>>32104352

You can't always count on early detection though.

That's the problem.

>>32104320
I per 8 cell pod, at a time, 122 cells.

About 15 missles at a "time" (which is the time it takes for the exaust to clear)

>>32104101
Armor is necessary for the true enemy of modern navies.

Tugs.

>>32104361
You can if your patrol and search are worth a fuck, which the US can boast of thanks to a fuck ton of airborne AESAs flying off every carrier. There is no realistic conflict with a CBG where the airspace isn't crawling with E-2Ds, AESA-equipped strike fighters, and LAMPs choppers. F-35 is only going to intensify that.

>>32104375

The caveat with that is ESSM requires illumination and thus limited on how many and good your illuminators are.

>>32104399
There are multiple illuminators, and its only for terminal.

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>>32103570

>>32104399
Not really. Both the SPY-1 and SPG-62 can do illumination. the SPY1 does midcourse correction and the SPG62 does terminal. It can do its job and can hit muiltiple targets if the operators time it well.

>>32104395

Yes, there is.

Anything that can go wrong will.

If I could, I'd put about 2 dozen VLS cells on every carrier just for those O SHIT IT WENT WRONG moments.

Its happened in our history before.

>>32104353
>Planes don't need hardened concrete shelters!
wha..?

>>32104542
You're confusing a possible mishap with the definition of defeat. If the carrier can't fly it's patrols, everything is already fucked. The situation you're describing is what things look like after a CBG gets slammed with 100 P-series plus Kh-35s launched by bombers. There is simply no reason you can suggest for a USN carrier group to simply steam into range dick first with no early warning or patrols up.

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>>32104510

LRASM cant come fast enough.

>>32104679
It's already here for Super Hornet and Lancer.

>>32104574

THIS MENTALITY IS WHAT I HATE ABOUT ALL YOU PEOPLE

I DONT CARE IF YOURE TOP SECRET CLEARANCE OR IF YOU DESIGN SUBMARINES I HATE THAT MENTALITY.

Russian sub's have ESCAPE PODS. American sub's get an escape suit rated for 700 feet because "OLOL if you need it you're dead anyways" despite the countless instances where living submariners have been trapped at depth. The average depth of the ocean is like FIVE THOUSAND FEET.

Its a defeatist mentality.

I'm an all or nothing guy myself but service men are worth MILLIONS and their lives are worth having every option open to them.

>>32104688
Still not in full scale deployment yet. They just tested it in live firings.

ONE MORE YEAR

>>32103592

ESSM really isn't. Given there's already other short-mid SAMs that can target themselves and are regarded with much higher pk(s) like CAMM or Aster 15.

>>32104699
Sometimes you're right, but between NSM box launchers and Mk.41, there are already a ton of previously toothless ships in the USN that are now going to be sporting a respectable amount of firepower. For the supercarrier, sitting at the center of the entire defensive onion, it really isn't worth it. Even Kuznetsov is ditching her P-700s; when a refit Kirov brings 80 P-800, what is the point?

>>32104699
Mission creep fucks your budget. Cue the Pentagon Wars in-depth analysis.

>>32104699
Carriers already have essm box launchers. Thats all you need for self defense

>>32104749
I would regard CAMM and Aster to have similar performance with the ESSM.

There's a thing with active homing vs semi active: Active homers gives the missile its own seeker and free up firing platform to do other things but it also increases the missiles mass because now it has to do everything. Its also much more easier to jam because the radar is less powerful.

For semi active most missile and launcher systems use track via missile guidance where the launcher provides everything the missile needs, guidance, radar illumination, and data linking.The launcher would most defiantly have more powerful computers, ECM resistance and radars but is limited to its location and horizon.

So there is a distinct trade off.

>>32104812
And RAM launchers. Kinda unfair characterization of a ship that has two layers of defense plus ECM all on its own.

>>32104829

Certainly.

However, I wouldn't agree for similar performance with Aster, not with the way I've had put to me. I'm not going to spew meaningless pk numbers, but the RN/MN/MM have very high expectations for Aster.

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>>32104679
Block IV Tomahawk is also gonna make big waves. The 'kill your whole battlegroup with one SSGN' kind of waves.

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>>32104972

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>>32104906
I mean I'd you're gonna go ahead and say that Aster 15 is better, you might as well just list the PK.

>>32104972
>supsonic
>no guidance
>kill your whole battlegroup

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>>32105112

>>32105170
In 2014, Raytheon began testing Block IV improvements to attack sea and moving land targets.[10] The new passive radar seeker will pick up the electromagnetic radar signature of a target and follow it, and actively send out a signal to bounce off potential targets before impact to discriminate its legitimacy before impact.[8] Mounting the multi-mode sensor on the missile's nose would remove fuel space, but company officials believe the Navy would be willing to give up space for the sensor's new technologies.[11] The previous Tomahawk Anti-Ship Missile, retired over a decade earlier, was equipped with inertial guidance and the seeker of the Harpoon missile and there was concern with its ability to clearly discriminate between targets from a long distance, since at the time Navy sensors did not have as much range as the missile itself, which would be more reliable with the new seeker's passive detection and active millimeter-wave radar.[12][13] Raytheon estimates adding the new seeker would cost $250,000 per missile.[14] The first Block IV TLAMs modified with a maritime attack capability will enter service in 2021.[15]

Sure, they're not fast, or smart, or stealthy, but 150+ of anything is gonna give any battlegroup a nice stress test. Perhaps I was somewhat hyperbolic, but having an entire fleet-scale Salvo on one boat is a formidable option.

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>>32105191

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This kills the Third Offset.

>>32105391
J-20 is bigger than F-22 in almost every dimension but carries two fewer BVRAAMs. The chinks desperately need to miniaturize their weapons.

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>>32104134
>laughable max altitude


yeah, no.

HQ-16B

75km range, 25km altitude, active-radar with ImIR.

>>32105406
Much higher range, desu.

PL-15 has 200km range (dual pulse motor)
PL-XX has 320-400km range (dual-pulse, ballistic trajectory)

>>32105391
>>32105420
So is that some AWACS killer? I'd guess so if it is ballistic.

>>32105406
It's almost as if initially F-22 carried fewer missiles.

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>>32105370

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>>32105489

>>32105420
>much higher range

>>zero evidence of PL-15 even existing, no real test data, the only picture evidence is a captive model

WEW

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>>32105489

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>>32105586

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>>32105597

>>32105597
They are talking about sticking aim-120s on the new avengers.

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/oman-avenger-fire-unitsstinger-missilessurface-launched-amraam

Gave some to oman.

>>32105489
This is one of the most beautiful pictures I have ever seen. How much money is that sitting on the tarmac?

>>32105628
How much is a toppled dictatorship worth in 2016 dollars?

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>>32105621
Nifty.

>>32105650
Surely you can't topple a dictatorship with a single B1.

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>>32105620

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>>32105667
I cant decide if it looks better or worse than the stinger avenger. No neato .50

>>32105678
Of course not, I was just being hyperbolic. Maybe a small, shitty one. But you can sure take a big bite.

>>32105697
Well, I think you could topple a few first world countries with a single nuclear missile.
>tfw you repeat the Bikini Atoll high altitude nuclear detonation over London or Berlin.

>>32105695
I like it. I shall dub it, BurgerBuk.

>>32105723
Well sure, if you wanna go nuclear. I was assuming you wanted to install a democracy after blowing the despot to bits.

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>>32105680

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>>32105754

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>>32105766

>>32105741
No I mean it would leave the infrastructure intact. The resulting EMP would send the entire country and its military back to the bronze age. I can't recall the exact test, but I believe the EMP set telegraph lines on fire and destroyed electronic hardware over 200 miles away from the detonation.

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>>32105723
AGM-86 warhead is nowhere near the yield of Starfish Prime. Operational cruise missile with the highest yield nuclear warhead I can think of is Kh-22.

>>32105812
That was a solar flare famalam

>>32105812
Is there really any military equipment that is not EMP-proof?

>>32105856
I was about to say, even Iranian knockoffs of Russian export hardware is Faraday caged these days.

>>32105824
Yeah I've actually been curious about this... Why don't we have a nuclear missile developed specifically for high altitude detonation that provides the benefit of a much more potent EMP? I mean that's really fucking surprising anon, its literally a doomsday tier weapon system with that kind of potential, that doesn't directly claim lives, nor produce a significant amount of fallout (relative to other nuclear weapon systems). Dare I say a usable tactical nuclear device?

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>>32105789

>>32105812
Confirmed for not knowing how EMPs work.
Like at all.

PROTIP: unless it's plugged in to the grid and turned on, an EMP will do precisely jack and shit to a modern device.

>>32105884
Military hardware has been manufactured with protection against EMP effects for decades. No modern force would be crippled by it.

>>32105856
Is it possible to EMP proof electrical grids? What about planes, trains, tanks, automobiles? Are missile tracking systems EMP proof? We've legitimately never tested modern equipment sufficiently against the threat of EMP.

>>32105931
>planes, trains, tanks, automobiles?
Aren't affected by EMPs beyond small electrical issues (read as: the turn signals may come on)

>>32105897
If it has electrical current running through it, won't any charge be sufficient to damage said device? I know there were a few tests done on modern vehicles, but it was a very shittily ran test.

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>>32105895

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>>32105962

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>>32105972

>>32105944
Funny, post 2002 microprocessors have significant control over the vast majority of production vehicles. I highly doubt that a nuclear EMP wouldn't destroy a sufficient amount of valuable infrastructure to plunge a country into chaos.

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>>32105991

>>32106037
Well then, you would be wrong.

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>>32105962
It is not Bastion. It is SPU-35B Redut (SS-C-1 Sepal) with 4K44 P-35B (SS-N-3a Shaddock) missile. Here is Bastion.

>>32106037
Problem with that is cars are a very good faraday cage.

>>32106045
Do you have any credentials that could make me be more convinced by your credibility? I'm open for discourse, but thus far you haven't provided significant proof that EMP devices would be ineffectual; Most of the data I've read trends towards me being correct. I really want to hear why it's not a legitimate part of the threat matrix.

>>32106037
EMP wont have much of an effect on your car, computers or appliances.

What it will adversely affect is the power grid or anything with a sufficiently large current running. So your car will still run but the local power grid is blown and everyone will resort to generators.

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>>32106046
Thanks much.

>>32106070
Not him, but military vehicles and infrastructure is not our vehicles and infrastructure.

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>>32106080
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=294by85-JqU

>>32106070
Simple really. Modern vehicles do have computers, yes. And those computers would be sensitive enough to be damaged by a large enough discharge. However, between the body of the vehicle being a bit of a faraday cage plus the fact that it's not connected to the power grid (read as: a big ass antenna) an EMP wouldn't have enough kick behind it to severely damage the computers in a modern vehicle, either consumer or military. And even if it DID, most computers don't control the vehicle itself, so the worst thing that could potentially happen is that it runs like shit or you can't use Bluetooth.

>>32104555
The Saturn V will forever have a place in my heart.

>>32106140
I had the pleasure of seeing one down at Cape Canaveral. Go.

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>>32106140
The powa!

>>32106140
Still the most powerful rocket ever put into operation.

>>32106133
Thats simply not true anon, The vast majority of modern vehicles are drive by wire. You can accomplish remote throttle control with a few modifications to the system (that dont involve installing extra hardware for the throttle control portion).

>>32106188
EMP still wont affect a car that much.

haha long boy

>>32106140
Its sorta boggles the mind that the N1 was a complete colossal engineering fuck up because one guy had a grudge.

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>>32106185
It's so sad Soviets went with that piece of shit N-1 instead of Chelomei UR-700 with RD-270 engines. Fucking Korolev lobby.

>>32106118
Opa, that's a fast fucking missile.

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>>32106080

>>32106195
Electronics are vital in plenty of modern vehicles, a car with a dead ECU won't run or will run like absolute shit and a plane with dead flight control computer is only good for getting over friendly ground and ejecting, and that's if the plane even has reversion systems.

Whether an EMP will induce enough current to ruin the electronics is a whole other issue, and I'd say it depends entirely on the power of the pulse, as no vehicle offers perfect electronic insulation. Whether this power is in any sensible magnitude? I have no idea, I'd love to read a study on it tho.

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>>32106276

>>32106153
Kennedy Space Center, rather.

>>32106285
Well the topic was "huge emp over a country" event.

If it was a localized emp then yeah sure cars fucked. If it was country wide then the car would be insulated from much of it and better if it was off.

>>32106288
What am i looking at? Is this the launcher or a rocket itself?

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>>32106325
It's the launcher from the back. Here's the same one from the front.

>>32106301
It really depends on how much energy is displaced. All that needs to be determined is the threshold. If I recall correctly a 400km burst in the 1960s gave off around 1-2 MeV across the area. That amount of energy blows away the testing equipment used to TEST emp proof devices. I think its a realm where we don't have enough data to determine exactly what would happen in the 21st century.

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>>32106301
I'll just leave this here.

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>>32106276

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>>32106118

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>>32106471

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I'll never not love Starstreak. That tri-warhead tip is just sex incarnate.

The fact it accelerates to over Mach 4 within 400m of launch from a fucking MANPAD is all the better.

The Royal Artillery saying:
"Starstreak doesn't fire. It just fucks off."

https://youtu.be/o9qGiJgfSVg?t=16

And dat CLICKBOOM launch sound.

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>>32106473

>>32105558
USAF General said that it exists. So it exists.

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>>32106759

>>32106727
USAF general was worried about its development.

If the US was really worried, and wanted an interm phoenix, a retardedly long range missile, they would toss an SM-6 on the 5k pound pylons (normally root and center stations) and be done with it. Shit gets 300 miles from an immobile sea level launch.

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Are there really no better images of Popeye Turbo?

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0. To. Mach. 10. In. 5. Seconds.

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>>32106816

>>32106828
This reeks of CGI propaganda.

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The amount of fuck you in one picture: metric fuckton.

>>32106839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKLRctxPY6k

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>>32106827
>Mach 10
Here's a Mach 17 one. Almost 6 km per second.

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>>32106874

>>32106874
SAAB VIGGEN CANT COME SOONERRRRRR

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S-200 missiles are so beautiful.

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Post CUTE tiny missiles :)

>>32106902
>No BARCAP
>No escorts.

Jesus. I know it's just Hollywood but would it kill these people to read books?

>>32106969
I like missiles that have a flap open for them.

>>32107050
The cap was there, but they left on a wild goose chase iirc.

>>32106969
The hell is that? I thought it was Sea Dart until it blew the ass end off that ship.

>>32107122
>>32107122
NSM.

Us just bought production rights.

>>32107135
Iirc they're developing a variant JSM that fits in F-35 weapons bays.

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>>32107109

>>32105489
curtis lamays wet dream

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Cheeki breeki, meet sneaky breeki.

>>32107242
Yep.

Nsm, and jsm. They got the rights to produce the nsm right now, factorys being built as we speak. jsm will be produced in the same factory after r&d

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>>32107351
SLAM-ER is a pretty studly round in the meantime. Anything is better than plain Jane Harpoon at this point.

>>32107382
JASSM-ER is even more studly.

LRASM with out the ASM.

Us has alot of missles that can be anti ship missles. The whole "lack of AShM" thing was a complete misnomer, but good for lockheed!

>>32107397
Be glad for it, LRASM is putting every missile defense complex afloat on suicide watch. The extra sensors, datalinks, and software make a huge difference.

>>32107525
My worry (and i lothe to say this around chicoms) is that for lrasm to succeed it needs to be a volly missile.

Its stealth will get it close but not all the way. EO CWIS sensors are pretty normal.

I feel it might be too advanced to really be shat out like a harpoon.

>>32107536
It's always going to be about oversaturation, make no mistake. But having a quantum leap in the capability of the munitions takes the pressure off of the launch platform and pilot. All the more so when these missiles are in VLS cells. The depth of the quiver is also being improved, not just the quality of each round.

>>32107617
I should add, there is a missile in development suited to being shat out, and it's Tomahawk Block IV. They're dumb, slow, and unstealthy, but they've got long legs and we've got thousands if them.

>>32107633
Oh, the tomahawk upgrade is a no brainer, and they dont just have long legs, they have fuckin stilts.

Make it airlaunched, hell even from a b-52, ill be a happy camper. Save the VLS for sm-6, 3, and essm.

Subs should be the main tom platform

>>32105812
You're thinking of Castle Bravo test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Bravo

>>32108021
My favorite nuke video ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2I66dHbSRA

>>32103705
FIM-92F

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>>32106140
And a teeny tiny model of a Saturn V will forever have a place inside my colon.

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"Attack-'ems".

>>32109357
Is this really a slang term or something /k/ shitted out on a whim?

>>32109378
Oh no that's just me as far as I know.

>>32109394
Ok. Just wanted to know.

>tfw I actually like it.

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how does missile navigation work? like how does it know where it is?

>>32109402
Steel Rain. Also Grid Square Removal System.

https://youtu.be/Ipr_hPAcR_Q

>>32109441
Inertial navigation. Someone else will bring a link. Basically missile performance is mathematically constant, so the on board computer can, for lack of a deeper explanation, compute it's way to a selected point in space. There are other methods coupling inertial to GPS, radar guided missiles, and infared seeking missiles.

File: 300px-Arrow_anti-ballistic_missile_launch.jpg (19KB, 300x375px) Image search: [Google]

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How good are Heeb ABMs, really?

>>32109441
Most ballistic missiles use inertial navigation systems. Some recent ones combine INS with GPS or radar to be more accurate.

Almost all missile systems carry special sensors to measure gravity anomalies so their flight path wont deviate much. Otherwise the error corrections have to be manually computed and entered into the guidance computers.

For regular missiles a series of different homing systems work:

Command Guidance - Missile is wholly controlled by a radar beam which tells the missile where to go and where to detonate. The launcher commands the missile where to go via directions from the tracking radar.

Beam riding - Missile is follows the beam of guidance radar towards a target illuminated by a tracking radar. The launcher tracks and illuminates the target until destruction or miss.

Semi-Active - Missile tracks radar reflections from a target being illuminated by a tracking radar. The launcher illuminates the target until destruction or miss. Can fire multiple missiles per target.

Active - Missile uses its own radar to track and direct itself towards the target. The launcher does not command the missile and is free to do other tasks.

Track-via-Missile - Missile is directed via a command beam while also sensing the radar returns of the target from the illumination beam and sends data back to the launcher. The launcher then calculates the navigational data and adjusts if needed. The Patriot and S-300 both use this type of guidance.

>>32106037
Prepare to be refuted, with actual cited sources.

Automobiles were subjected to EMP enviro
nments under both engine turned off and
engine turned on conditions. No effects were
subsequently observed in those automobiles
that were not turned
on during EMP exposure. The most
serious effect observed on run-
ning automobiles was that the motors in three
cars stopped at field strengths of approxi-
mately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a
stop and require the driver to
restart them. Electronics in th
e dashboard of one automobile
were damaged and required repair. Other
effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five
automobiles exhibited malfunctions that co
uld be considered only a nuisance (e.g.,
blinking dashboard lights) and did not require
driver intervention to correct. Eight of the
37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.

http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf, PP115 (131 if you're viewing the .pdf)

Is there any other MANPADS that is capable of Head-On Engagement without the need for external help?

The Verba MANPADS is supposed to be able to with help from that Tigr SUV radar mast or any Tor radar in the vicinity or if I recall any radar mast that can share data. But I believe the Stinger was able to do this since Vietnam.

The Igla can only do Tail Chase Engagement since IR locks on to the exhaust.

>>32106902
>CIWS

Wut?

>>32105414
>SM-2 equivalent
>not quad packed

>>32110015
>Truck vintages ranged from 1991 to 2003

This is fairly critical. Most early 2000s vehicles do not have the connectivity that newer wiring harnesses have. Newer vehicles have a lot more circuitry involved with fuel/air delivery, cam timing and other functions that would cripple them.

>>32111655
Wut "wut"?

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The System A anti-ballistic missile equipped with the V-1000 rocket made the first intercept and destruction in the world using a conventional warhead of an intermediate range ballistic missile warhead coming in at 3 km/s on 4 May 1961. The US did not demonstrate an equivalent capability until 1984.

>>32114505

They shoot down asteroids with those?

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>>32114595
GET OFF
THE NUCLEAR
WARHEAD

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Medium range nuclear air-launched cruise missile

ASMP A