30-06

>>32064405
No

>>32064405
Maybe

>>32064405
No

>>32064405
Can you repeat the question?

Given the fact that it still is one of the most popular rounds on the American market today, I would have to say definitely not.

I like heavy cartridges with huge powder charges. Would happily carry a Fal or M14 in 30-06 or 8mm mauser.

>>32064438
>>32064457
There's only a 100 fps difference between comparable .308 vs 30-06 loads. Why would anyone choose the longer 30-06?

If you reload no. If you don't, sort of. It doesn't get hit in panics like 308 does and modern home loads make it clearly better than 308. Manufacturers loads tone it down so as to not wreck 70 year old guns though.

>>32064405
Obsolete? Yes. .308 is superior for the majority of applications.

Irrelevent? Fuck no. Tons of guns use it, tons of people use it, it's massively popular still. It's like the .45 ACP of rifles. There is new stuff that is better, but it's still pretty fucking good and massively popular.

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>>32064512
Thank you.
Pic thematically related.

.30-06 and 8x57 Mauser are both obsolete

7.62 NATO/.308 and 7.62x54R are the only calibers needed in 2016

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>>32064611
>.30-06 is obsolete
>7.62x54R isn't
u wut m8?

>>32064577
The only application that it is superior is that you can carry more of it.

>>32064611
x54r has been obsolete for a long, long time.

>>32064706
Thats a lot of mad

>>32064629
>>32064662
If it's still in use it's not obsolete, there is clearly a role for it

>>32064611
Mosin fags need to be gassed.

If you want to hunt it's perfectly fine caliber.

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>>32064466

Because of fucking fudds.

>>32064582
The one on the left is Scottish

>>32064737
There are those that still use .700 NE, .218 bee, and .40 s&w.

Being in use doesnt mean its not obsolete.

I got an old 486dx2 66mhz that still works. Its obsolete.

>>32064776
The point is that it still sees MILITARY use

>>32064841
Yeah, in Russia where they have boatloads of it stored, not in the U.S.

Nope. .45-70 isn't either.

>>32064767
>Fudds

Ah, the eternal boogeyman of /k/.

>>32064767
And surplus Garands and people who like to keep heirloom rifles from their parents/grandparents

But yeah, Fudds I guess.

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>>32064909

No problem with that. Just if you buy a new gun in that caliber you're cancer.

>>32064647
>shoots flatter
>cheaper
>lighter
>no real loss in power

At the end of the day there is no real reason to use .30-06 over .308.

>>32064944
I want an AR in .30-06. Yes they are made.

>>32064479
>>32064500
>>32064577
>>32065149

30-06 is the same as 308 within 1%

Shut your stupid whore noguns mouths

>>32064405
.308 was mistake

>>32064405
No.

>>32064500
It can be loaded with heavier bullets and hotter loads than the 308. It has more cartridge space.

>>32065309
>It can be loaded with heavier bullets

Nope exactly the same

>hotter loads than the 308

Correct

>>32065149
6.5 grendel out performs .308. Why still use .308?

>>32065322
>Nope exactly the same
Yes it can be.

>>32065342
because 6.5 grendel is a meme

>Yes it can be.

Show me one single bullet that can't be put in a 308 casing

>>32065309
It has a lower pressure rating than 308 and puts more stress into the barrel.
The only advantage is it can more easily use bullets longer than standard 200gr. When you start doing that though it makes more sense to goto 300 win mag

>>32064856
Maybe it's a Russian cartridge?? It's not obsolete if it's in heavy use all around the world..

Being as the .30-06 is the single greatest hunting cartridge ever designed, no, it is not obsolete/irrelevant.

>b-b-b-but .308 will kill elk too

>>32065393
>all around the world
I mean, if you've never left Russia, it would feel like the whole world, sure.

>>32065373
Are you getting CUP confused with PSI? The .30-06 is messured in Copper Units Pressure. The .308 is measured in Pounds per Sqaure Inch. The two numbers are not directly comparable.

>>32065438
You don't know what you are talking about. Both are measured either way. The 308 is higher pressure in all forms of measurement.

>>32065474
you wrote lower pressure and higher stress

was that a typo?

>>32065474
No they aren't both measured in the same way. SAMI specs the .30-06 pressures in CUP and the .308 pressures in PSI. What is hard to understand about this? There is not direct conversion from one to the other either.

>>32065499
Larger surface area means increased hoop stress. That's why there's extra material in the chamber area of 30-06 rifles. 308 is still the hotter cartridge

>>32065474
https://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/psicuparticle2.pdf
> .30-06 PSI 60000
>.308 PSI 60000
How is the .30-06 less pressure again?

>>32065555
>That's why there's extra material in the chamber area of 30-06 rifles

theres extra material because the casing is longer

>>32065521
SAAMI specs both cartridges in psi as measured by pressure transducer. 308 is higher. When they used copper crusher measurements 308 was still higher.

>>32065596
Nope, still wrong. See: >>32065562

Those are SAMI specs. They are both the same PSI.

>>32064944
But what about calibers like 25-06 or 270, which I have particular hunting purposes for that are based on the 30-06 case and have no short action true equivalent. I don't think that's cancerous at all.

>>32064706
>9mmv45acp,jpg

>>32065610
Try the actual SAAMI specs. Freely available if you can properly spell their acronym.
30-06. 60kpsi
308 62kpsi

>>32065681
I already posted them with a source.

>>32064500
No, try 220gr bullets.

>>32064767
A 308 can not match a 30-06 with 180-220 bullets you no hunting fuck.

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>>32064706
The pic of .22 gave me a hearty kek.

>>32064767
>he doesn't own a garand

>>32065717
>>32065701
just looked up reloading data and with 180s they are both about 2600 fps give or take 100 fps

shut your stupid mouths

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>>32065717

K. At that point why not use something like 300 win mag?

>>32065735

Obsolete piece of shit. Heavy, inaccurate and kicks like a mule, AND is expensive for a shitty one. No thanks, bro.

>>32064772
so all scottish women look like haggis eventually?

is that like the slavic women and the babushka bomb?

>>32064767
fudds keep the lights on here, you nogunz flaming faggot

you think those AR/AK fags pay the bills?

>>32065746
The .30-06 will push a 220gr bullet to 2,440fps. The .308 will push a 200gr bullet to 2,400 fps. That's 40 extra fps on a 20gr heavier bullet.

>>32065816
is that statistically significant? im asking honestly.

>>32064405
Already been said, but unless you're reloading hot 30-06 you're not getting performance to justify it. If reloading right you can get performance that can rival some factory loaded .338 win mag. When both are loaded to the max .30-06 falls behind by about 300 fps with 180gr rounds and .308 falls behind .30-06 by 300fps with 180gr bullets as well, according to Nosler at least.
tl;dr Unless you're a reloading guy 30-06 isn't worthwhile

>>32065735
nigga, those are expensive these days

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>>32065816
the fact that I'm reopening the reloading program to prove you're a faggot goes to show how mad I am at you for being a intentional cocksucker

oh wow would you look how close those numbers are!
Almost like the difference is completely and utterly irrelevant!


>>32065843
no, it's not
at all

>>32065854
CMP prices are still fine. I was just at the store a week ago.

>>32065189
If .30-06 and .308 are extremely similar, then why bother with .30-06? Or are you just too damn retarded to actually read my post?

>>32065342
6.5 is more expensive than .308. If it was more popular and/or cheaper I'd have no issue moving to it.

>>32065846
>308 falls behind .30-06 by 300fps with 180gr bullets as well, according to Nosler at least.

no>>32065872

>>32065763
>kicks like a mule
Jesus Christ how much of a pussy are you? 12ga trap loads kick more than an M1.

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>>32065746

>>32065872
Are you retarded? I pulled those numbers straight from SAAMI. I'm going to trust them over your dumbass.

>>32065880
http://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/30-06-springfield/
No

>>32065917
I pulled those numbers directly from a reloading manual cock sucker
SAAMI uses manufacturer numbers printed on the box and tests for pressure
They don't test velocity

hello friends

I want to buy an M1917 and am considering selling my ishapore to buy one. My main concern is moving from 7.62 nato to the 30.06

Talk me into it or out of it

>>32065927
Yes they do. God damn you are fucking stupid.
http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/specifications/Velocity_Pressure_CfR.pdf

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>>32065926
yes

>>32065942
no
take your horseshit numbers elsewhere
These are directly from hodgdon

>>32065927
Why do I get the feeling you're legit retarded.

>>32065804

WTF are you blabbering on about? I have a dozen guns, son.

>>32065948
>a bunch of velocity listed with no grains or anything to make reading the chart useful
>vs SAAMI
Yeah, I'm going to stick with SAAMI.

>>32065948
>Post picture with 200fps difference
>There's only a 100 fps difference
So you're retarded?

>>32065955
>tfw anon owns 12 ruger 10/22 dressed up as ar-15's and ak's
I guess it counts

>>32064405
For military use and actual combat? Yes but it will still be popular with fudds stuck in the past.

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>>32065816
>>32065746
I could not even find 220 gr 308 load data.

>>32066006
6.5 grendel out performs .308 from an AR-15 while 6.5 creedmoore out performances .308 from an AR-10. Yet you are still here fudding it up here with .308.

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>>32065984
here you go, niggertits

>>32065990
>what is an average

>>32066029
>180gr
Are you actually a moron? I listed the velocity for 220gr .30-06 and 200gr .308.

>>32066044
and I was arguing with this guy>>32065846

I don't give a fuck about the difference between my numbers and your numbers
I care about the difference between calibers

>>32066061
>I care about the difference between calibers
Which is what I posted you whinny bitch. .308 is capable of pushing a 200gr bullet at 2,400fps while .30-06 is capable of a 220gr bullet at 2,440fps.

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>>32066026
Never claimed anything about .308, he asked about .30-06 not .308.

>>32066002

Name one gun of mine you want a timestamp of.

>>32066086
which is statistically irrelevant since powder variation can create a bigger variance than that you fucking short sighted coconut fucker

>>32066088
You have serious reading comprehension problems.

>>32066098
I will cut you, you dumb fuck. There is a 20 grain between the weight of the bullets.

>>32066114
whoopty fucking do

You're ignoring my point that there is no meaningful difference in 180 grain bullets

Keep arguing a point I never fucking made if you want, coconut fucker

>>32066130
The point is the capability of the cartridges you retarded coconut hater.

>>32066114
Ah, looks like I'm replying to someone with dyslexia, this will be the last time I reply to you.

Clearly from your post you say " Yet you are still here fudding it up here with .308." When my post never mentioned the word .308 nor did Ops actual words or subject.

If your going to say his image is related to the subject than that is false he could have just picked it as a random image for a thread.

Now go fuck yourself with a rake, and goodbye.

>>32066161
It is a thread comparing .308 to .30-06. Go suck start a shotgun you fucking mouth breather.

>>32066149
not
my
argument

coconut fucker

>brb commissioning someone to draw me anon fucking a coconut

>>32065426
>what is the middle east
>what is eastern europe
>what is africa
>what is china
>what is india
and so much more

you're retarded

>>32066183
Your argument was irrelevant. Make a better one next time sugar tits.

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>>32064706
>30-06 impact wound
Took a Garand shooting in Arizona. Can confirm.

>>32066221
looks more like a glock to me

>>32065955
im saying dont be raggin' on fudds. we pull our own weight around here.

just because my guns are wood instead of plastic and bolt or lever instead of semi auto in no way invalidates opinions

sorry just venting i guess

>>32066190
You mean former USSR fuckholes or cheap bastards that buy 30 year old russian mgs because they don't want to pay $10 more for an American one? Sure, it's still only being made and issued for Russia and some neighbors. The rest only have it because they dug up a crate or hopped on their shitty laptop and ordered a pallet.

>>32065353
None, but the point is is that those heavier bullets are more effective on a 30-06 case because you can load more powder.

>>32066455
Just admit you're wrong.

>>32066679
>forced to use a shit round because it's all they have
>willing going out of their way to get said round
Pick one.

>>32066666
checked

>>32066693
How do you manage to be this wrong in every one of your posts?

>>32066723
Now that didn't sound like an answer, just some retarded lip flapping, care to take the crayons out of your ass and answer. How many plants they got pumping out 54r in Africa?

>>32066744
Do you even know what obsolete means?? Because 54r doesn't fit the definition at all.

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>>32066221
>M1
>in Arizona

So...you made a Garand Canyon?

>>32066789
>no longer used
>no longer produced
>out of date
Hmmm, I wonder which one of these the old ass round fits in? Hmmmmmmmmm. I mean surely, ballistics and manufacturing processes have updated since the 1800s no?

>>32066815
Goddammit Carlos.

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>>32066825
54r is still in use and is still being produced, which means it's not out of date, my 54r from the 80s isn't even out of date.

>>32066858
So, the round has not been improved upon by modern practices? The 54r is the best in its weight class compared to today's ammunition? Gee willikers Batman!

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>>32064841
So? US and many other militaries use a >50 caliber fossil.

>>32066874
Just because it's not the best doesn't make obsolete though, so basically, you're wrong.

>>32064611
>slavaboo

>>32066874
>The 54r is the best in its weight class compared to today's ammunition?
54r/PKM/LPS-B32 API mix is the best GPMG system you can get in numbers.

>>32066962
Backpedal harder please, it's getting me aroused.
One classification of being obsolete is being *drumroll* out of date. Not expired like you thought it meant though out of date can also mean the expiration of something as well. Cool thing about words is that they can have multiple meanings. In this case "out of date" meaning being made less desirable by better more modern technologies. Since it has filled the category of being "out of date" *another drumroll because I like the way it sounds* it qualifies as being obsolete you mosin fag.

>>32064405
Ian thinks the 308 was a irrelevant replacement for the 30-06. He doesn't think there's enough of a difference to have warranted an entirely new round to be designed and adopted.

>>32067018
It literally means expired though, you can't just change the meaning to fit your narrative, unless of course, you know you're wrong and have no other argument. Hammers are thousands of years old but they're not obsolete, even though there are much better alternatives.

>>32066904
.50 BMG is not obsolete though, and neither is the Ma Deuce for that matter

>>32064738
>>32066987
Slavaboo would mean I think 7.62x54R is da best cartridge ever

No, all I'm saying is that it and 7.62 NATO are not obsolete

>>32064767
We need to embrace and form an alliance with our fudd bretheren

>>32067082
Christ you're a dumb nigger.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=out%20of%20date%20meaning

>>32067089
>.308 and 54r are the only calibers needed
MMHHmmm sure

>>32067082
Out of date, as in not up to date
Tadaa

>>32067107
>>32067134
Couldn't be more wrong..

>>32064405
Not really, but I'd call .308 the overall better cartridge even though it's smaller/weaker. .308 is still a plenty powerful cartridge, in fact it's about the same level as M2 Ball .30-06 during WWII. Its casing is 1.2cm shorter (about half an inch) which makes it easier to eject in semi-auto/full-auto firearms, and also makes the casing itself lighter which is the 1st or 2nd heaviest component of a rifle cartridge.

In being more powerful, perhaps .30-06 is arguably better when used in hunting (meh, a lot of my family still use .303 to take down moose, and .303 is a tad weaker than .308), but all in all with 7.62 Nato being in such widespread use, it's really better off to just get a .308. As for Militarily, yeah, I'd say 7.62 Nato beats .30-06. No need to have a standard issue cartridge that's damn near as big as magnum rifle cartridges.

>>32064500
I imagine there's more than just 100 ft/s difference, considering the half inch difference in case capacity. .303 vs .308 is more of a 100 ft/s difference, if that.

>>32064629
It's a discussion thread, not a bait thread.

>>32065189
M2 Ball .30-06 and M80 Ball 7.62 Nato might be around 1% difference, but commercially, no, there's a much bigger difference. Not HUGE (perhaps even less than 10% different), but there is indeed a difference.

>>32067204
Welp, go ahead and call up Merriam-Websters and tell them that you have the real definition to "out of date"

>>32064767
except that's wrong you fucking nohunting retard

>>32066858
You stupid nigger like every fucking caliber since the late 1800s is still be produced and available on the market. With your argument there is literally no obsolete caliber ever. I own a mosin and I love 54r but it is absolute shit when it comes to external ballistics and terminal ballistics. Not to mention it's heavy, you can't make a magazine over 10 rounds for it without being shit because muh rimmed and compared to other cartridges it's not even that popular around the world considering how many guns were made to shoot it and how much ammo was produced

>>32067119
They're not the only ones needed, but they're incredibly versatile

>>32067570
Backpedal harder please, mmmm, keep moving them goalposts bby I'm almost there.

>>32067581
What are you even trying to prove

>these cartridges are not obsolete
>therefore they are the only calibers needed

I don't know how you could misconstrue someone's post so bad, but whatever give me another bait response

>>32067645
Are you retarded or are you fucking retarded? Read the post you acoustic nigger.
>>32067089 < this one in case you didn't figure it out.

>>32067666
>>32067645
Whoops, linked the wrong one. Here >>32064611
Have a gander.

I might be remembering this wrong but isn't the .308 a hotter round than the 7.62nato?

And weren't the the 7.62nato and .30-06 damn near identical when the former was introduced back in the 50's?

it was obselete in 1950 you fucking retard

fuck this thread

>>32065205
It was a big fat waste

>>32069937
>Lighter than .30-06
>Much shorter than .30-06 to make it more reliable in automatics
>Makes magazines lighter because less material is needed
>Makes firearm receivers lighter because less material is needed
>Just as potent as M2 Ball .30-06 from WWII

I would say it's an upgrade Militarily, but as for .308, then yeah, if it never would have been adopted for the Military then I'd say it was pointless and should have just stuck to .30-06.

tl;dr

.308/7.62 Nato is better than .30-06 for the military, but if not for that, then .308 probably would have faded away into obscurity as an old snowflake cartridge.

>>32064907
They're always there, using guns for fun and wholesome ways.

Reeeee

>>32066315
It's okay anon. Someday these fags will understand that polymer only belongs on a handgun, and only just.

Wood is love, wood is life

Also .308 a shit

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>>32064611
>7.62x54R
>not obsolete
Holy shit my sides

What is the best .30-06 AR rifle to theoretically go maximum G.I. Joe on slant-eyes?

>>32070324
Yup, I bet their sides were in outer space while US troops were getting gunned down with an obsolete cartridge in Afghanistan. You know, that war that they lost. Even seen a vid where a soldier was pinned down and eventually wounded by a PK or PKM machine gun. He was rofling, if rofling meant losing his shit.

>>32064405
.308 and .30-06 are both dated yet still widely used.

The real problem is the light .30 caliber boolits they both shoot...

Unless you're using a .300 win mag.. you can't really take full advantage of .30 caliber boolits.

6.5 is where it's at...

>>32070385

>eventually wounded

see? he wasn't even killed. shit round.

.30-06 is easy to reload to your own preferences, including hotter loads that are pushing towards some of the belted magnum rounds, and works great as an all around hunting round. For hunting applications it's very good and not outdated whatsoever.

Militarily, .308 is better simply because of case length + weight.

>>32065937
Do it. Fuck the Kaiser!

>>32070324
7x6254R > pathethic .308. Lead core ball for machinegun? M61 """"AP"""? Can Americans even in penetration?

>>32064405
Only in M1 Garand/M14 actions.

Everything else and you ought to get .308.
The only reason for this is that as far as I can tell, the reason M1 Garands don't have the whole "rattle themselves to death after a certain amount of time" problem is that they're longer.

>>32070440
Called it. Called it as soon as I pressed 'Post'. Called it as soon as I typed it. You're a very predictable individual.

>>32070385
Oh man Afganis have a factory that pumps out 54r?! Where can I buy some?

>>32070960

Gas is tapped from much farther up the muzzle compared to more modern, higher pressure systems