How powerful was Yugoslavia militarily?

>>32048109
their country doesn't exist anymore so not very

File: gru1.png (138KB, 360x184px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 360x184px

>>32048138
>was

Is Wargame still a thing?

Well, we like to think that we were the third strongest army in Europe, or at least the fifth.

>>32048174
>http://www.eugensystems.com/a-preview-into-yugoslavia/

>>32048179
AFAIK Yugoslavia was roughly on-par with T*rkey in terms of man-power and size. But the indigenous arms industry was so much better, and a big breadwinner for the country, top export industry.

File: ronhaviv001balkan.jpg (889KB, 2500x1686px) Image search: [Google]

889KB, 2500x1686px

>tfw Tito died happy at the apex of Yugo's power
>tfw he didn't have to witness the ugly war

>>32048184
>Another of the JNA’s forte is its air defense. After all, not every army can claim to have shot down invisible planes …

top bants m8s

File: 258071.jpg (23KB, 720x651px) Image search: [Google]

23KB, 720x651px

>>32048199
LOCKHEED BTFO

>>32048206
>LOCKHEED BTFO
Not really though, more like predictability btfo.

>>32048109
Powerful enough be to a total failure?

>>32048206
More to do with the USAF officer who kept reusing the same flight plan to the point the air defense crews knew exactly when it would be flying over head.

>>32048236

The fact that ADF crews were able to gather enough information with their decade old equipment to piece together the flight routes already reflects pretty badly on the performance of the F-117.

>>32048229
here's your u, 4 u

>Zelko was subject to intense g-forces as the aircraft tumbled and had great difficulty in assuming the correct posture for ejecting. After his parachute deployed, he used his survival radio to issue a mayday call and was able to contact the KC-135 that had seen him shot down. Zelko used his survival radio while still descending although this was contrary to his training. He reasoned the altitude would give his signal the best possible range and was also sure he would be quickly taken prisoner by Yugoslavian forces on the ground and wanted to confirm he was unhurt before this happened.
>Zelko landed in a field south of Ruma and around a mile south of a four-lane highway. He quickly concealed himself in a drainage ditch that he had identified as a hole-up site while descending. There, he felt the shock waves of American bombs dropped by B-2 bombers on targets on the outskirts of Belgrade.[9] Zelko landed around a mile from his aircraft's crash site, and an intensive search of the area was carried out by the Yugoslav soldiers, police and local villagers. At one point, searchers came within a few hundred yards of the ditch he was hiding in. Zelko was rescued approximately eight hours later by a U.S. Air Force combat search and rescue team flying in a Sikorsky MH-53 helicopter in the early hours of the next morning. According to Zelko, he would later learn that he had been minutes away from being captured.

that is some fucking CoD-tier shit

File: 633688851_preview_Brave_Slavs.jpg (200KB, 750x563px) Image search: [Google]

200KB, 750x563px

>>32048246
>Zoltán Dani, now running a bakery, and Dale Zelko, now retired from the US Air Force, have met and developed a friendship in recent years.

cute af

>>32048187
If only they'd put his brain in a robot, could have kept the stupid shifts from turning on each other for centuries.

File: 1456432253211.jpg (37KB, 479x345px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 479x345px

>>32048109
lol

>>32048240
No, not really. It's not like radio waves changed a whole lot, or at all, in the interim decade between the invention of the Serbian equipment and the F-117.

The solution wasn't really technological, it was human ingenuity.

>>32048187
Tito was Yugoslavia. I think he had more power over Yugoslavia than Kim's have over Best Korea.

Are you talking about the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, or the "Yugoslavia" of Milosevic meaning Serbia and Montenegro.

I will answer both questions, as a former Yugoslav, more specific a Bosnian.

The Socialist Yugoslavia of Tito.
In mid period was rather good, airforce has MiG21Bis, the newest version from 73, and was also before that sporting American equpment, i think Sabres, but you can google it. There was a good AA defense system, dug into the mountains and a decent amount of fighters. You had airbases made to withstand nukes, such as Zeljeva near today Bihac on border of Croatia and Bosnia.

Also a rather huge, but not that well equipped ground force. I think both the DDR and CSSR had more modern arms then Yugo. Only late were Yugo clones of soviet weapons used in untis, be it AK rifles or M84 tanks, (copy of t72). But Yugo had a rather big teritorial defense force that was made up from each republic.

Late Yugo Yugoslav Peoples Army 80ies and later was rather bad. NATO forces were objectibley better, whilst Yugo had MiG21bis and a few MiG29ies. A second tier NATO country would have F16s.
Equipment used by ground forces was objectibley speaking vietnam war era tier.

Yugoslav industry was a majyor breadwinner, and training aircraft and light support aircraft were manufactured By Soko Mostar in BiH, designed in Vazduhoplovni institut in Belgrade.

>>32048308

All in all the SFRY would have in the chaos of a was in the European theater been able to hopefully make the country remain neutral, since it would have required major manpower by either NATO or warsaw pact countries to take it over.

As for the "Yugo" of Milosevic, meaning Serbia and Montenegro.

First of all this is a rather political question. The Yugoslav Peoples Army of this period in 90 91, battle of Vukovar, and start of siege of Sarajevo, as well as the war in Slovenia. objectivley speaking this army had no intentions of keeping Yugoslavia together.

In Slovenia it lost on perpuse. In Croatia, and later in Bosnia it "withdrew" meaning it left equipment to local Serbs/paramilitaries of the serb republics in Bosnia nad Croatia who wanted to care out their own ethnically pure states.

It also had huge problems with mobilization of Serbs from Serbia propper, as not that many people actually supported those wars as is maybe tought of today. It was in any case totally demoralized, and in a way deliberatly lost, seen as the leadership in Belgrade wanted Yugo to fall apart. Also it was obsolete compared to any NATO member at this point(not counting Turkey, only western nations).

As for Serbia in 1999.
You have to remember, NATO was not that often flying low, as in to bomb army units. But was most of the time going high altitude and bombed bridges, facotries etc. The Serbian air defense forces had huge concentrations of obsolete AA equipment, such as 30mm cannons. The concentration of these made it risky for NATO aircraft to fly low. But at the same time Serbian forces had little SAM systems that could take out NATO aircraft flying at altitude.
Making the conflict a "stand of" of 72 days, where NATO bombed some targets, but did not what I know conduct any carpet bombing tier missions.

I think rather few Serbian MiGs were airworthy in the 1999 war due to lack of spare parts, and the senctions Serbia had during the wars in Bosnia and Croatia.

File: CwZVTyvUQAEceVe.jpg (146KB, 900x1200px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 900x1200px

>>32048308
I was talking about the SFRY, the only true Yugoslavia. Thank you for answers, and also, your women, who are top-tier. Allahimanet.

>Late Yugo Yugoslav Peoples Army 80ies and later was rather bad. NATO forces were objectibley better, whilst Yugo had MiG21bis and a few MiG29ies. A second tier NATO country would have F16s.
Equipment used by ground forces was objectibley speaking vietnam war era tier.

Do you think, had Yugo stayed together, the 90's would have produced a more modernised military? Novi Avion was just about to answer the problems of few MiG-29s, lots of upgrade packages for tanks were scheduled, etc?

In 1990 the whole army was reformed doctrinally, they moved away from division-planning to more localised brigades. In your opinion would this have improved their capabilities?

Also, did you serve in either the SFYR or Bosnian army?

File: 1478565263325.gif (2MB, 695x392px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 695x392px

POSTIN YUGO TUNES

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATRKrQ_lac

>>32048369
>Do you think, had Yugo stayed together, the 90's would have produced a more modernised military? Novi Avion was just about to answer the problems of few MiG-29s, lots of upgrade packages for tanks were scheduled, etc?

Hmm. At best we would have reached the military tech level of Sweden. The Novi Avion was a Gripen tier fighter. And in many ways a single engine version of the French Rafael with whom it shared an engine.

Also You had a lot of firms producing optics, Zrak Sarajevo.

>In 1990 the whole army was reformed doctrinally, they moved away from division-planning to more localised brigades. In your opinion would this have improved their capabilities?
Kasno marko na kosovo stize, lol, yes. Division planning seemed like it was made for ww2 tier huge set piece battles, if you look at arab isreali wars, after most armyes became mechanized, its much more mobile. So yes.

>Also, did you serve in either the SFYR or Bosnian army?
To young for that, I ended up as a refugee in Norway, so only served in Norwergian Military.
Most males in my familiy were both in Bosnian and Yugo military.

>>32048369
nice hamster btw

as for our women... thanks i guess :p

>>32048412
>I ended up as a refugee in Norway
I'm glad you and your family got out safe. My ex-gf was from Bihac and got out via Denmark to Australia. Her middle-class journalist parents didn't learn English well, spent the past 2 decades as cleaners. So much wasted potential, fuck to Milosevic.

>nice hamster btw
mice! Hoxha (pictured) and Tito.

>>32048432
>Hoxha (pictured) and Tito.

hahahah, intresting combination

>>32048109
An interesting long read, if anyone's keen.

CIA's dossier on Yugoslavia: Military Dynamics of a Potential Civil War, 1st of March 1991

>https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/1991-03-01.pdf

>>32048432
I live 30 mins from Bihac. Our region fared pretty well considering we had a lot of people ready to fight because we were totally surrounded and left with no other option.

>>32048575
My friend's father was an advisor to some local politician (someone big in the agricultural sector iirc) and he received credible death threats including armed militia looking for him in his home village, so there's that

>>32048588
Could be for fikret abdic which was a Bosnian that allied with the serbs. We had to fight the Serbs, Croats, Bosnians, and then a bunch of seperrate paramilitary groups, all got shrekt. My region has a very long history of this type of shit though.

>>32048588
>>32048592
I think he wrote an expose on him or something? This is his book.
>https://www.scribd.com/doc/316574924/Abdi%C4%87ev-Put-u-Izdaju-pdf

>>32048597
As I thought. There are some people still looking for fikret they want his head.

>>32048603
yeah, I wish I could read Bosnian, I'd like to know what sorta fucked up shit went on.

I get the feeling army was a joke, listening to stories of my father and others.
The fact they couldn't pull off a coup in early 90'a and execute Milošević, Tuđman and Izetbegović doesn't speak too well about them. It was the right thing to do.

>>32048616
that probably would've been best - only the Slovene and Macedonian representatives on the federal council were fucking sane, even the Montenegro flipped flopped enough towards the end of the dissolution process. But those three guys? Each of them is a third of Hitler's evil.

>>32048614
Too much to put into a post but a lot of unimaginable things happened. My dad spent like 8 mo in a concentration camp and just barely survived.

>>32048627
Jesus. Feel welcome to share anything you feel comfortable with, I'd like to know. My sympathies to him.

>>32048187
There was actually a huge movement within the inner circle of the party to delay the collapse until after his death.

>>32048622
Montenegrins are Serbs man, despite contemporary political separation.

>>32048633
Well I can tell you that we were split up when the Serbs began shelling us. My mom took to the woods with the kids and my dad split off so if we were captured they wouldn't kill us all, only him. Not sure if the exact details of his capture but he wasn't armed at the time. He was taken to manjaca camp where he spent those 8 months getting beat on a daily basis, starved eating grass and bugs to stay alive, and watching his best friends get killed. We had to leave the country shortly after he was captured because we were caught in an artillery strike and I had shrapnel in my face. We left through Croatia to Spain where my dad met with us after his luxurious vacation with the Serbs. After this we came to the US once our papers were finalized.

Remove kebab, remove kebab.

>>32048650
Fucking hell, the serbs should have finished the fucking job.

Fucking muzzie.

File: 1423912645480.png (55KB, 691x779px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 691x779px

>>32048661
>Serbs
>not the most self-indulgent Slavic group ever
Croats should've finished the job in World War 2.

>>32048661
They tried but couldn't. In fact you can't even find a single Serb in my village. When they first came in they killed anyone that was friendly with us so when we went back in we killed everyone that moved into our homes, stay mad.

File: CjDcHfzUUAAdhrB.jpg (69KB, 600x600px) Image search: [Google]

69KB, 600x600px

>>32048648
>Montenegrins are Serbs man, despite contemporary political separation.
well memed

(half kidding, I don't have a position on the matter. It was interesting reading about Djilas' weird relationship on the matter) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milovan_Djilas#Views_on_the_relation_between_Serbian_and_Montenegrin_nations.2Fethnicity

>>32048650
>pic related. allahimanet

>>32048659
>>32048661
if you're going to antagonise my bro mehmet at least post something conducive to the thread's core topic, yugoslavia's military. otherwise fuck off to /pol/

>>32048671
Then why are you in the US now and not your village?

>>32048680
I do. I have homes in both countries and visit Bosnia in the summer time.

>>32048680
fucking serb diaspora pussie and miscegenation with first world living standards? retard

>>32048616

Would be intresting if ppl would post their nationality here so we know who thinks what. But yes, this would have been the only sane option. And I do not know if they did not due this due to being corrupt or not competent.

Say this as a Bosniak

>>32048673
Hey fuck off, remove kebab is straight up /k/.

>>32048673
Đilas later became Serb again because he dropped out of favor. Tells you a lot about the sincerity of his belief.
His own father was pretty noted for his role in the atrocities against Muslims in northern Montenegro.

>>32048687
yes but try and be constructive about it? tell me what sorta IFVs Arkan was using, or tone it down

>>32048683
Time for you to be deported then.

There shall be no dual nationality in the US. Let muzzie stays in muzzie land.

>>32048685
I'm a Serb from Montenegro.
>>32048616
>>32048648
>>32048689

>>32048691
Arkan needs no fucking IFV, he just needs his men with M70.

File: IMG_0322.jpg (2MB, 4032x2639px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 4032x2639px

>>32048694
Deport me, sugartits.
>>32048699
They got shrekt in my region so hard they had to flee through another country. He is a meme.

>>32048699
>Arkan needs no fucking IFV, he just needs his men with M70.
s*rv criminal detected
stay mad and delusional

>>32048702
>the kebab had more $ in alcohol than some of /k/ had guns
funny and sad at the same time

>>32048699
Arkan was a career criminal and war profiteer. Only ones who idolize him here are bydlo, who don't really know anything about his war record. Which was mostly looting and killing civilians.

>>32048702
Well, this muzzie is asking for it.

Care enough to show your address?

>>32048714
I live near DSM in Iowa.

>>32048713
He was killing muzzies, who are akways worth killing, even by muzzies.

File: pathetic.jpg (38KB, 818x503px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 818x503px

>>32048714
this is getting sad. Grow up.

>>32048714
Like you're going to do anything apart from cry yourself to sleep out of jealousy.

>>32048719
Noted, there must be a great many muzzies like you in the area.

Let the cleansing begin.

This thread is confusing as I dont know who is who.
>>32048695
Well, the fall of the Soviet Union ment Yugo was fucked, as we lost being a balance between east and west..

But some intervention to get rid of Tudjamn Izetbeogvic and Milosevic would have been the only sane option. At least to preserve some type of normal life, a confederal yugo that was at least secular instead of these clerical banana republics we have now

>>32048728
Your tears are so delicious.
>>32048734
Albanian and Serb nationalists would have still ruined it.

>>32048728
fuck of back to /pol

>>32048738
My tears or your blood? We shall see its color soon.

>>32048748
are you even from exyu, write on bhs or fuck of

>>32048742
Fuck off of /k/.

Remove kebab.

>>32048748
Oh I'm so scared lol kids

File: 1405252842815.jpg (100KB, 625x468px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 625x468px

>>32048748
Fucking hell...

>>32048751
Where I am is not important.

Where the kebabs are, that's what matter.

>>32048734
Or at least a more peaceful separation. Though nationalism was a problem for all groups, even if they were minority. You'd need some drastic actions to remove that, I wonder if it would be possible by early 90's.
>>32048738
Kosovo problem could've been solved rather easily and solving it would significantly damage Serbian nationalist platform.
Milošević used Kosovo issue to gain popularity. Then other issues happened.

>>32048762
you are not from former yugoslavia, and are polluting this thread with your virginness

>>32048748
*teleports behind u*
ništa ljudstvo, dete

>>32048762
Fuck off with your cringy bullshit. Hooligan-level nationalism is not nationalism, it's just apes flinging shit.

>>32048756
No need to be scared, brah.

Nothing is gonna happen until it happens anyway.

>>32048763
The nationalists were ruining long before.
>>32048766
It's just some memelord.
>>32048776
>nothing is gonna happen
You're right.

>>32048767
*ništa lično, mali

>>32048775
Kebab is shit that needs removing, especially the ones in America.

>>32048763

Well I agree, but with a peacefull seperation I fear that the roles could have been reversed. The same way the JNA was de facto a tool of Serb nationalism after 1990. Who is to say that after a peacefull seperation Croat and Bosniak nationalists would not have harassed Serbs after a seperation. Both countries were mixed. Even north Serbia had Croats.

Also the Kosovo issue can be solved by making a fair border. Northern Parts are Serb, South albanian, albanians leave the cultural historic sites alone, and serbs can visit them.

I think a Yugo confederation that would have supressed both serb and croat and bosniak nationalism was the only sane option. let us be honest, these banana republics are utter shit.

>>32048780
Yes, indeed.

Until it does.

>>32048788
Where do you live currently, bro?

>>32048780
Nationalists were just a loud minority.
Notice how in Montenengro despite the fact we're ethnically and culturally Serbs anti-Serb separatists rule. And Montenegrins in past and even now were pretty radical.
It's not impossible, people here are apathetic and easily controlled. My point is it could've been used for a slightly better purpose instead of what it was used for.

>>32048796
Are you still in Montenegro?

>>32048788
Kosovo could've been solved even if you rounded them up and sent them to Albania, only in a disciplined and organized way. That's what practically happened with Turks in Bulgaria in late 90's, do you see anyone mentioning it?
If we had competent people in charge, many options were open. But sadly, idiots prevailed because normal people did nothing.

>>32048802
Yes.

>>32048806
Yes, yes, but are you still in Montenegro? Just need a confirmation, brah.

>>32048782
>that's the joke
nice google translate bro

>>32048810
Thank you, that are two down.

Now just needs the so-claimed Bosniak.

>>32048796
>>32048806
That depends on the region you're talking about. More mixed areas were less nationalistic but there were still a lot of nationalists on all sides. Also Yugoslavia was having issues with Serbs and Albos before the 90s. Everything is avoidable in hindsight. The problem was granting anyone more autonomy, everyone wanted it but only certain groups got it.

>>32048806
And why would you ethnically cleanse albanians from Kosovo? Lol, seems like an insane plan. Its not like Serbia had a huge population surpluss to settle the land with. Serbs were migrated/transported northwest during the ottoman empire and albanians were moved in. Its not that smart to try to change demographics. Also a normal Yugoslavia would need to cooperate with other balkan nations, ,meaning albanians.
This would be like me wanting to deport serbs from north western bosnia bcs they were moved in in the 1700s.

>>32048827
Where do you live, brah?

>>32048821
Yugoslavia was having more issues with Croats arguably. See early 70's and MASPOK.
Serb nationalism gained strength in late 80's.
>mixed areas
Depends. Here, you have people who grew up with Muslims and still hate them for some reason. Idiots are everywhere, but they are still minority.
I don't, except Turkophilic types. They are dangerous given the situation right now. But to be fair Turkophilia is a product of wars.

>>32048827
I personally wouldn't, I just said that was an option.
I don't really care much about Kosovo, besides cultural remnants. But Albanians will probably destroy it all in the next decade or so.

>>32048829

> >>32048412

Also this is now a datamining thread it seems.

Oh well, anyone that doesnt support the current pollitical parties down there things a coup to get rid of Izetbegovic Milosevic and Tudjamn would have been the lesser evil.. Mah

>>32048843
Thank you, so more fucking refugee talking shit.

Gonna note this down.

>>32048842
fair enough

anyways, this thread derailed rather quickly..

what now. what to talk about...

>>32048850
and who the fuck are you if i might ask

>>32048851
Your street addresses, probably.

>>32048851
What sorta funz from former Yugo nations would you consider buying for personal use? Or is Zavasta something you can't morally bring yourself to purchase?

>>32048856
Just a curious dude, really.

I think the muzzie and you are top priorities since you stay in foreign nations, the self-hating serb at least stays in Montenegro.

>>32048834
I'm aware. Also it began to rise in the 70's after. Serbs were mad about what happened in '74. And some of the first protests were held by Serbs in the 60's not long after Titos government was formed. Nationalists have always been the problem m80.

>>32048240
Sure helps when you have the Russians quietly supplying you with high end gear.

>>32048870
How is he self hating?
Only complete trash support the likes of Arkan and Milosevic, they were looting serb civilians as well as "removing", meaning stealing stuff adter killing people.

>>32048870
>self-hating
If I was self-hating Serb in Montenegro I wouldn't call myself a Serb. I just don't think Serbian national revival is accomplished by slaughtering women and children and burning down shit.
I like to think most who support and glorify some things don't know reality of it, but maybe I believe in people too much.

>>32048880
>>32048881
He is self hating because he does not support the current serbian government, despite being a serb.

He will sell it to make some fake ass "yugoslavia".

No better than the muzzies.

>>32048897
Current Serbian as well as Montenegrin government work for their Western handlers, not Serbs.
Vučić literally "employed" Tony Blair for "consulting".
Something tells me you aren't from here and you don't know much about this subject friend.

>>32048897
>He is self hating because he does not support the current serbian government, despite being a serb.
The government of a nation-state does not equate the nation.

Supporting governments is for statist bootlicker cuck something somethings.

>>32048904
he's retarded, ignore him. Did you have family in the JNA?

>>32048913
Probably. Most people were conscripted so he would have someone that did serve. My whole family did both in JNA and ARBiH.

>>32048904
The current government is at least friendly to Russia, and the far right party is rising.
>>32048905
It is when the government expresses thr will of the people.

>>32048913
I had family members who served conscription and grandpa was in partisans (his brother in Chetniks), but otherwise no.

>>32048109
They were world's 3rd largest army after USSR and USA in their good days.

>>32048920
Only formally friendly because they would deal with massive backlash if they confronted Russia openly due to opinion of people.
But no. You don't really know the situation here.
And just for the record, how many "muzzies" did you meet? I grew up with them, I probably know them better than you.

>>32048923
>grandpa was in partisans (his brother in Chetniks)
jesus, was there tension between the two of them?
>>32048918
what units did they serve in if you know?

>>32048920
>It is when the government expresses thr will of the people.
The government never expresses the will of the people, only tricks the people into believing their will is the same as the government's.

>>32048933
Brother was shot in 1945 and they never met during war, so no. He was a pre-war officer. Grandpa didn't talk much about it obviously.
My father served in tank brigade, uncle was in mountain infantry (brdska), my grandfather from father's side was in the navy, and second uncle was serving on a submarine.

>>32048931
The situation will improve once the far right gets into power.

And no, meet and talk with muslims. Disgusting people, very fake.

>>32048942
Who will lead the nation-state then?

>>32048933
I'm not sure of units but my uncle was a radioman and previously a bodyguard to Tito. My dad was a cook, other uncles were mortar team, navy, mountain brigade, radar operator. Before this everyone in my family was a partisan because the partisan stronghold is the region where I lived. They were formed like a half hour away from my house.

>>32048947
There is no far-right in either Serbia or Montenegro. If you mean Šešelj he's false opposition and ironically probably a Croat by origins.
There's Dveri and SDS but SDS seems fishy, and they kicked out their president recently and she was a good woman so I guess they're controlled too.
While they spew some things in public, all of the satraps here cooperate nicely.

>>32048960
Where is this stronghold I might ask?

>>32048945
>uncle was in mountain infantry (brdska)
Was Brdska physically demanding, moreso than other units?
>>32048945
>My father served in tank brigade
In M-84s or in another ancillary role?
>>32048945
>second uncle was serving on a submarine
Forgot Yugo had them, what sub/class?

>>32048960
>my uncle was a radioman and previously a bodyguard to Tito
BASED
A
S
E
D
>>32048960
>My dad was a cook
Is his manja good?
>>32048960
>Before this everyone in my family was a partisan because the partisan stronghold is the region where I lived
;_;7 i salute your kin

>>32048954
The government, by definition. Do you not know the difference in this context between a nation-state and a nation?

>>32048969
Bosanska krajina, the area around Bihac.
>>32048973
He doesn't cook now.

>>32048964
I exactly means seseji and the SRS, if they are controlled opposition then the government is far right.

>>32048977
If the government never expresses the will of the people then they are not fit for leading the nation state.

>>32048973
>brdska
Yes, but not that much. Army in Yugoslavia was for the most a rather pleasant experience, not shit like Soviet army. He served in Slovenia.
>M-84's
T-55 sadly.
And sub was Heroj-class I believe, but I'm not sure. Sonar operator.

>>32048979
Cool, I need to note this down.

>>32049000
Again m8 you don't know much about the subject so it would be best if you informed yourself a bit.

>>32049013
Please do tell.

>>32049016
Šešelj is a mentally-unhinged troll who was in past serving Milošević and is now serving Vučić probably.
Even if you don't hate him personally, people from his party are atrocities.
It also speaks a lot about former radicals when you consider most joined SNS which today is de-facto a pro-Western party.
Kinda reminds of all those chetniks who rapidly abandoned the movement in WW2 and crossed over to Tito.
In any case reality trumps dreams. And believing that far-right in Balkans will solve our problems is a naive dream, especially since you don't have real far-right.

>>32049004
No government is fit for expressing the will of the people, as by definition they must be a subset of the people and so cannot express the full spectrum of society.

Furthermore, governments exist solely to gain power and influence, they do not willingly choose to relinquish to the people any measure of power, control, influence, territory, anything that defines the functions of state.

Governments work, and must work, against some interests of the people, either small or large.

>>32049026
So why are seseji and the SRS not far right?

That is what matter, not the whole EU-loving cuckolds.

>>32049028
So who lead the nation-state again?

>>32049049
Controlled opposition consisting of retarded semi-literate people with 4 teeth on average.

>>32049060
see: >>32048977

>>32049065
OK, so now I know serbs have cucks too.

>>32049074
If the nation does not express the will of the people, how is it fit to lead them?

>>32049088
Nation-state.

Define fitness in the context of a system of governance with thousands of competing goals and interests.

>>32049098
But the nation-state is the people, not the government.

>>32049114
No, the nation is the people, the nation-state is the government/polity. A nation in the 19th Century sense meant a contiguous ethnic group, hence why the political movement was called nationalism, they strove for a state based on the nation instead of the prevailing system of empire, a state based on multiple nations.

>>32049128
Something does not add up here, if the nation state does not express the will of the nation, how is it fit to lead?

>>32049142
See >>32049098

>>32049144
So the nation-state leads the nation-state, what?

File: 1377862126236.jpg (43KB, 604x453px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 604x453px

>>32049161
The nation-state rules over the nation. Hence nation-state. State of the nation. This isn't that difficult to understand.

>>32049172
The state can only rule if it expresses the will of the people, that is my point.

>>32049181
That's an ideal, it's not reality.

>>32049183
In reality, the government does at least expresses what the majority wants, even goddamn Saddam and Kim Jong Un.

>>32049199
What the majority is willing to accept, not necessarily want. Also, Saddam wasn't the leader of a nation-state.

>>32049208
If they accept something, they want it. To suggest otherwise is to imply the majority is coward.

>>32049221
>If they accept something, they want it.
No. It means they accept it.

>To suggest otherwise is to imply the majority is coward.
No. It means they accept it.

>>32049226
If they do not want it, they would not accept it.

>>32049232
No, acceptance in certain contexts, especially in contexts of power dynamics, directly implies that the subject doesn't want it.

>>32049246
If they do not want it, but they accept it, that means they are cowards, thus deserved to be ruled by a tyrant.

>>32049274
People are rational actors, if they recognise that they have more to lose through action in general than they have to gain through successful action, they will decide against action. That's not cowardice by a long shot.

Also, that definition would make almost everyone alive today a coward, when the appellation of cowardice is generally reserved for extraordinary circumstances.

>>32049304
Cowardice is acceptance of something you do not want.

>>32049314
Such a wildly open-ended definition would make literally everyone on Earth a coward, you and me included. As social animals, we all accept things we do not want at some point.

>>32049329
And that makes us cowards at some points. And that is still true.

>>32049341
>at some points
Not just at some points, at all points. By your definition, you're probably a coward every day of the week.

>>32049353
I actually do not accept things I do not want, at the moment.

>>32049367
Congratulations on your NEEThood then, I guess.

>>32049377
Ok, anon. I find my job...decent.

>>32049390
But every rule at your work you agree with, right?

Or just how about every rule and regulation you obey while on your way to and from work, you agree with?

There's plenty of things that would make you a coward by your definition, which is why your definition isn't useful.

>>32049082
>can't make an argument
>I'll just call him a cuck for not supporting the far-right
Typical.

>>32048614

>implying """"Bosnian"""" is a real language

File: postwar.gif (93KB, 552x330px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 552x330px

>Yugoslavia should have been divided on ethnic lines (Apart from Kosovo, which should have been cleansed of Albanians)
>Republika Srpska and Serb-majority areas in Croatia should have been seceded to Serbia.
>Croat majority areas in Bosnia should have been given to Croatia.
>Izetbegovic could have his islamist circlejerk in the muslim areas of Bosnia
>Montenegrins are Serbs
>Macedonia is Bulgarian

File: CvdUYqNWYAEPLPX.jpg (52KB, 696x803px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 696x803px

>>32048109
Not very.

File: 1452826120868.jpg (51KB, 500x490px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x490px

I have a couple pics of the Yugo military I can share (pre-breakup), don't have a whole lot though.

>>32049769
go for it, son

>>32048109
I don't know, but they sure made a lot of small arms.

M48 is fucking everywhere.

File: 1472540909578.jpg (89KB, 640x558px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 640x558px

And unfortunately, that's all I got.

>>32048179
Meaning you were a yugoslavian? Or you aren't that old? What are you now?

>>32048109
A neoconservative American Hollywood actor, Trump voter and M60 designer was teaching a class on Delta Force, an American SF unit. ”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Delta Force and accept that they are the finest special forces the world has ever known, even superior to the Spetsnaz!" At this moment, a brave, patriotic, pro-EU Eurocorps officer who had cut 15 prototypes from the US roster and understood the necessity of national flavor and fully supported all balance decisions made by Eugen Systems stood up and held up a machine gun. ”What is this weapon, burger?” The arrogant professor smirked quite Americanishly and smugly replied “it's an M249 you stupid eurotrash” ”Wrong. It’s been over 40 years since FN developed it. If DoD procurement isn't corrupt as you say, then Delta Force would be using it by now” The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Black Hawk Down. He stormed out of the room crying those American crocodile tears. The same tears Americans cry for the "underpowered" Riflemen (who today are so over-buffed they can stand up to reservists) when they jealously try to claw justly balanced prototypes from deserving minor BLUFOR nations. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Tom Clancy, wished he had learned to play SOVKOR and become more than a 10v10 shitter. He wished so much that he had an effective ATGM to defend against tanks, but he himself had helped design the M47 Dragon! The students applauded and all bought AoA that day and accepted Madmat as their lord and savior. An eagle named “National Flavor” flew into the room and perched atop the French flag and shed a tear on the chalk. A Nerf the Longbow thread was posted several times, and Rommel himself showed up and buffed West German infantry. The professor lost his tenure and was banned from the forums the next day. He died when his M1A2 suffocated him and was mocked for all eternity Vive La France.
p.s. buff the Rafale

File: 1394393412727.jpg (113KB, 396x495px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 396x495px

>>32049769
>>32049871
>>32049902
JUST how shrekd those guys wouldve been if war with the west broke out in the 80's. Feels like nato remf faggots were equipped better
>tfw you will never be a yugo conscript manning trenches with shitty rpk facing NATO troops
feels good

File: CwzojXmUoAINAq3.jpg (129KB, 1200x901px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 1200x901px

>>32050056
>(who today are so over-buffed they can stand up to reservists)

>>32050140
Military doctrine was literally, professional army hold the line, civilians get conscripted and snipe the enemy in the cornfields

>>32050204
>civilians get conscripted and snipe the enemy in the cornfields
Wishful thinking when mass hysteria hits and the air raid alarms screech. I remember reading that some of the outer eastern bloc countries were expected to hold the borders for under 30 minutes and then mount defense in depth until the Ruskies arrive

File: 1478851700039m.jpg (116KB, 754x1024px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 754x1024px

>>32050140

The JNA troops of the era were comparatively a vanguard. They had excellent regulars and were feircly nationalistic, but their lack of significant modern equipment would have hampered their offensive capabilities outside of a reletivly small carde of the actually quite large JNA.

What they did have was a big army that was at least equiped well enough, drilled properly and prepared for war. Sometimes men and artillery is all you need.

The Soviet doctrine of the era would have probably necessitated Yugoslavia to remain neutral or declare for the COMCON; had they not the Soviets had 16 divisions and several independent Regiments or so waiting to sweep onto the JNA, because Yugoslavia was seen as a threat enough for both sides.

If NATO-WARSAW had happened, I always imagined the JNA would have suffered from issues not dissimilar to the Autro-Hungarian Empire in WWI. Too many languages, too many ethnicities, too much religious disparity. Infighting a plenty.

>>32048179

At best 3rd continental WARPACT (USSR and DDR), at best 5th total (USSR, FRN, GDR, DDR), at worst just behind Poland.

UK added then you'd be bumped down one. And added again US forces Europe another.

The JNA was nothing to sneeze at. The USSR was the focus of much of the USs intelligence and consideration but the WARPACT armies were near equal combined to the Soviet Forces at times; some 800,000-1.4m troops under arms (era depending) in addition to the USSRs was something NATO had failed to account for enmass until like 1978.

>>32050265

Sorry, full numbers actually ranged from 775,000 to 1.1m (1970-1985) with 1.8-2.6m reservists for six NSWP nations (POL, CZH, BUL, ROM, HUN, DDR) plus Paramilitary, and the JNA was not often configured into NATO figures.

>>32050302
>>32050265

Source on western/warsaw offensive and defensive doctrine scenarios in Europe for 70's-late 80's?

>>32050322

Zalogas a good source.
Osprey has a few books on NSWP, DDR and Soviet equipment and wartime experience that speculate lightly on Soviet tactics.
Political dispatches from the USSR if you can read Russian.
Various DITCs

Off the top of my head I honestly couldn't give a catch all source, it's just information I've collected over the years studying the USSR/NSWPs forces and the probable ((Habbenin)) of The Warmed Up Cold War.

>>32050048
Well, yugoslavia broke up before I was born, so no matter how much I wanted it, I cant call myself a yugoslav.

>>32048767
Moćan šeg, druže.

>>32049142
It's not, I don't think you needed to spend forty posts begging the question.

>>32050322
When I went to Croatia in 1991, the group I was working for simply rang around universities, various experts and expats and acquired a few copies of Jane's - then reached a working estimate of various things (mainly in regard to positioning, manpower and proliferation). There was some other stuff thrown in, too, that we probably shouldn't have had access to but did anyway. All the information was reliable and gave us a lot of insight into something that a lot of western governments had ignored throughout the Cold War.

>>32049425
He has no legit complaint against the SRS, so I gave him the standard moniker.

>>32049420
I actually agree with all of them, else I would have quit.

Fact: Serbs are the most powerful race in the world.