Can katanas actually be this sharp?

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I guess the question is, are katanas sharp enough to cut bone?

>>32037340
Sharp enough to cut through unarmed peasants

>>32037340
Most swords can cut through bone.
It'll put a lot of stress and wear on it, and it takes a fair bit of force, but it can absolutely be done.

The Katana is a heavy slashing blade, so cutting bone would probably be easier, but the metal used to make them wasn't particularly amazing, so the wear would probably be worse

>>32037340
Why does it look as though both made a big whoops?

>>32037340
easily, it's not that hard katanas are heavy as fuark that helps.

Absolutely, it's a heavy curved sword

An real sword of real weight that has been well sharpened is a devastating weapon

>>32038526
>"IT WAS JUST A PRANK BRO"

>>32038425
>but the metal used to make them wasn't particularly amazing, so the wear would probably be worse
the blade geometry helps a lot it gives a wide support for the hardened cutting edge, so long you don't fuck up the angle of impact and the heat treat is good it should be fine.

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Leave it to the white man to do things properly.

>>32038718
that really shouldn't have happened
thick shaft made of hard wood possibly fire hardened, is perfectly fine to parry with.

>>32038735
Oh god, I just noticed he got 3 guys!
Nothing parries Gods might.

>>32038718
I've watched the movie 3 times, seen this gif about a thousand times and only just noticed that he's chopping off one guys hand, cuts down the fact and torso of the guy next to him and cuts the third dude in half.

>>32037319
>>32037340
Any two handed sword will take limbs off like that.

>>32038718
I take it that in this instance "make a decent movie" wasn't one of those things: Ironclad was an awful film.

>>32038767
>>32038748
>>32038735

That feel when you roll a 20-20

>>32037319
It's not so much the sharpness but the skill of the person wielding the blade. You swing it like an axe and it's not gonna have nearly the same cutting ability. There is a reason becoming a samurai was a life long discipline.

>>32037340
Pretty much. Depends on who is swinging it though

>>32038791
Muh bushido

>>32038779
>Ironclad was an awful film.
Agreed, it was just terrible.

>>32038783
Confirm roll is just raw "to hit", it doesn't make it a super crit.

>Get hasted by the Synthesis Sorcerer
>Full attack with first two strikes at full BAB with a Crit
>Take evil priestess' arms and then head off in one turn

I love playing a Paladin.

>>32039405
>not playing a system with exploding dice

>>32038791
>There is a reason becoming a samurai was a life long discipline.
Top weeb. Being a samurai didn't automatically mean you knew dick about fighting. It just meant you were born into a noble family that owned land. That's it. There were some exceptional samurai and some pathetic samurai, and a great number of average ones. Just like feudal knights.

Stop watching anime as if it is a history documentary.

>>32039468
Oh, we alternate weeks playing Pathfinder and nWoD games.

>>32038783
fuckin nerd

>>32037319
>>32037340
AFAIK you don't really cut bone; you break it by the force of the impact and cut through the fracture.

But I may be wholly wrong. Surely someone with practical experience on the subject will show up any moment now.

>>32038526
"Oh shit, please don't tell mom!"

Read something somewhere years ago about katana problems in battle. Sword breakage was a big one, too common. Chipped edges very common, so most blades which have seen combat have been damaged. But when meeting bone, one of the most serious issues was getting stuck in the pelvis. So samurai trained in diagonal slashing techniques which would avoid going straight down and wedging the blade into the pelvis, leaving it so well stuck that he would essentially need to find another sword before the next guy came along and cut him in half.

>>32040858
If they were down to the point of using their swords on the field of battle, shit had already gone pear-shaped anyways.

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Japanese sharpen their swords with usually 8000 grit sharpening stones. Bear in mind 1000 grit sandpaper feels smooth to the touch with no noticeable roughness. Also Japanese were experts at tempering the edge of their blades by covering the rear part of the blade with clay and then quenching the red-hot blade in water. Japanese woodworkers still use these sharpening stones and have razor sharp wood working tools.

I once cut the head off a whitetail buck with a Hanwei katana. Granted it was already dead and my buddy was supporting the head by the antlers but we were impressed it was removed with one cut, we expected to have to hack at it.

>>32037319
The blade shaping does help it go through more without jamming up, so I would say it is totally possible.

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>>32037319
Katanas are generally plenty sharp, but I expect the blade profile is wrong to have that "cut in half, pause for a second then slide apart" thing. They're pretty thick blades because they only had mediocre steel to work with and had to pile a lot of it on to get a usably durable weapon.

There are historical examples of relatively clean shearing of bone, so it was certainly a thing that happened at least occasionally, but at least from what I've seen some sort of fracturing is way more common. It might have been more frequent in japan, where armor was less developed, but I don't know.

Image is from http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/science/osteologyskull.html

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>>32037340
.. did she not mean to cut him open? How do you accidentally cut through both of a person's arms and half their torso?

>>32043861
>Japanese woodworkers still use these sharpening stones and have razor sharp wood working tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxvOMHoLRBY

>>32037340

If they weren't then the japanese would have made all their armor out of bone.

Any blade can be sharpened to only one molecule width if I suck my own dick hard enough.

>>32043861
Tempering like that was only done because the steel they had was shit, not because it's any better than the western methods.

>>32044124
that's a sweet pic/link, I've never seen bone cut like that

>>32044366
>kill enemies
>boil down for bones
>make armor from skeletons

>>32043904
You cut it while someone was standing there? That's pretty fucking retarded bro

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>>32037319

>>32044131

Go read Azumi, that's literally the first chapter

>>32043904
Why were you impressed?

That's something a fleamarket machete can do (with what passes for the edge as they come). I would expect even chinkshit-wallhanger swords could do it at least once, after they've been properly sharpened, considering a sword will have significantly more momentum and blade speed compared to a machete since they're longer and heavier.

>>32038735
A full overhand swing like that has a LOT of force to it. Odds are it very definitely would have gone straight through that spear haft just like that, and very easily could have cloven that deeply into the dude considering how little bone's actually in the way there (collar bone which is the diameter of your thumb, a few cartilaginous ends of ribs around the spine and/or sternum).

As to whether that should have/could have been parried: If it were an actual parry where it's deflected off to the side and not trying to stop the full force of the swing at a perpendicular angle, sure. Trying to stop the full force of the swing on an overhand chop like that? Most likely not, not even with a fire-hardened haft in brand-new condition.
>though he most likely would've still driven the guy's arms down and done the same shit even if the shaft hadn't broken, but that's not as entertaining

>>32039539
Someone that does a lot of butchering here.

You very definitely can cut bone, but it's more likely to simply break from the impact.

Even a relatively small meat cleaver can leave very clean cuts in some pretty thick bone, and not all bone is created equal. Your round, regular, marrow-filled bones are much easier to cut than your "flat" bones with little or no marrow in them, as bone is relatively flexible and marrow is quite spongy.

>>32037340
That is the face of a man who just realized that he'll never be able to masturbate again

Very handily, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyR9dS05GeM

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>>32046991

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>>32044470

>>32037340
well they cut american rifles in half in the pacific during world war2, so ofc they can cut thru bone

>>32047217
rly?

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>>32044415
Its mostly for keeping the spine of the sword soft to absorb shock so it doesn't snap in two and the edge hard to keep a sharp cutting edge.

Yup

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>>32044366
They used bamboo because it was easier to work with, but wearing the bones of your fallen enemies is pretty metal too.

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>>32047217
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

>>32047514
>They used bamboo
Point out for me which part of the suit in the picture is made of bamboo.

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>>32044415
>>32044124
>Japs use shit steel
MFW when this meme is at least 10 years old and will last forever.

>>32047367
so with modern steel and heat treat, how would that chart compare?

>>32047581
they didn't have bad steel, but they didn't have very much of it at all.

>>32046991
I don't say this often, but I could do that with a week of training and I'm a DYEL hasnoswords

>>32047600
>Dunning-Kruger in full effect
Not to say cutting mats means much, pretty much smashing bricks level.

>>32047581

Well at least try to prove that they didn't have bad steel instead of saying that it's a meem.

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>>32047666
So we agree with each other, yet I am delusional?
Who is it that has an unfounded sense of superiority here, you or me?

Also, I promise you you learned about Dunning-Kruger on 4chan you degenerate.

The next words out of you mouth will be "you're projecting"

>>32047700
>>So we agree with each other, yet I am delusional?
No he means you couldn't do it AND the demonstration is dumb.

>>32046199
>A full overhand swing like that has a LOT of force to it.
sure it can crack your skull even if you wear a fitting helm
> Odds are it very definitely would have gone straight through that spear haft just like that, and very easily could have cloven that deeply into the dude considering how little bone's actually in the way there (collar bone which is the diameter of your thumb, a few cartilaginous ends of ribs around the spine and/or sternum).
no, that doesn't actually happen
>If it were an actual parry where it's deflected off to the side and not trying to stop the full force of the swing at a perpendicular angle, sure.
that's not how you do it, you just step in and catch the sword before it reaches it's peek momentum and simultaneously break the guys knee with your boot. you can deflect it sure but with a slow weapon like an axe you can't exploit his opening effectively.
>though he most likely would've still driven the guy's arms down and done the same shit even if the shaft hadn't broken
most definitely not. you can easily parry a greatsword with any weapon, i have done it countless times.

>>32047732
people that never fenced fail to understand that the greatsword or zweihander was not a particularly powerful sword it was a very fucking fast one. the long handle allowed to more than compensate for the extra weight good leverage allowed the sword to be agile and the angular velocity was not that great but the tips radial velocity was insane.

>>32047732
>sure it can crack your skull even if you wear a fitting helm
Nope. Stop believing Hollywood jew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ob95SxIpw

>>32047756
you know that those guys are absolutely over doing the armor right? and yes if the knight wore a skullcap and his helm it wouldn't do anything except make his ears ring. but just the cap with no deforming zone it was doable.

>>32047782
i looked it up the helmet is 3,2mm thick that's the kind of armor thickness that only came in fashion when guns were around.

>>32047782
>but just the cap with no deforming zone it was doable.
>wearing skullcap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itO64ZBX1jU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmywULL-vB0

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>>32047588
The chart is more about the anatomy of a katana and to show different variation, but the basic idea is that it needs a hard steel cutting edge to maintain a sharp edge and a flexible spine to avoid snapping so you can atlest stab with the point. gif related the sword is warped but you can still stab a fucker with it.

>>32047801
>basinet and sallet
>skullcap
go be a faggot somewhere else, i'm talking about the little piece of metal that goes under a crusaders great helm for example but peasants wore them or things like them as their only head protection.

the rule of thumb is soft steel up to 1.5mm will give to a powerful strike, hardened steel of 2mm will not, it might shear tho if hit hard enough.

>>32047822
that gif makes me mad every time purposefully hitting swords together by the edge...

>>32047822
>The sword that was designed to bend bends

W O W

What a revealing gif, this changed my whole view of swords.

[nospoilersonk] Having the sword be single edged and making the spine of the sword out of a much softer steel allow it to bend, and therefore be easily bent back. Good luck reforging a shattered european sword. Note that this design is probably because Japan did not have sufficient ore, and used a shitty forging process made it hard to easily replace swords, meaning making a sword that could be repaired instead of replaced was bery desireable. [/nospoilersonk]

>>32047248
yeah, the gooks would bonzai the american lines and chop the rifles in half like fucking butter

>>32047695
not him, but...
iron is an atomic element, there is no such thing as 'bad iron', and japanese were expert at smelting iron into steel by adding proper amount of carbon. The fact that japanese katanas exist today in perfect condition compared to european swords of the same time period which are rusted out is proof enough

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>>32047880
Its not about reforging it its about being a usable weapon if you fuck up and hit some thing hard and bends you cans till use it like pic related. when you have to use a sword it means its going to be close up and personal.

>>32047902
>>32047880
but your right being easier to repair is a plus specially when your the one running the army.

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>>32047895
>iron is an atomic element, there is no such thing as 'bad iron'

Yes there is, it's called iron that contains an unacceptable amount of impurities.
>inb4 ID'S NODD IRON DEN

Go find me a 50 gram ingot of iron that contains absolutely 0 impurities. In the fucking 16th century. protip, YOU CANNOT

>Japanese were expert at smelting iron into steel by adding proper amount of carbon.
Smelting is way more complex than "add the right amount of carbon" and Japanese couldn't smelt for shit. You know where the FOLDED ONE GORILLION TIMES thing comes from? Its from them actually hammering the metal into a sheet and folding it 20 or 21 time in order to make the carbon content consistent enough to use.

>The fact that japanese katanas exist today in perfect condition compared to european swords of the same time period which are rusted out is proof enough
There are usable (after cleaning and sharpening) Nordic swords that were dug out of the fucking ground from around the time the Japanese were still fucking around with rocks and bamboo.

Also, show me a photo of Kusanagi and tell me how perfect its condition is

Protip, you can't, nobody has even see the fucking thing in like a gorillion years (besides monks). But I'm sure it handled the test of time quite well, its just so goddamn well made that even looking at it will cut you, thats why those monks won't let anyone see it. Not because its deteriorated horribly and looks like absolute shit, thats definitely not the reason

>inb4 you have to use wikipedia to find out what Kusanagi even is

O U T W E E B ' D

>>32044131
What rifle would Mirai use to ethnically cleanse youmu?

>>32044131

Judging from her arm, there, I think "swing real swords at each other" is a game they play relatively frequently.

>>32047895

>japanese were experts at smelting iron

No. They weren't.

>adding proper amount of carbon

No. They weren't. Their swords would last more than a few years otherwise but only the most meticulously maintained blades last the test of time by basically bathing the thing in oil and leaving it in a glass cabinet with moisture absorbing shit.

Meanwhile there's threaded iron/steel swords made by anglo saxons that people find in fields all over the UK that could still be useful tools if they weren't historical items. Or those finnish axe heads that are literally 400 years old and in constant use by families because the steel was so well made and maintained they were intended to be a once in a lifetime purchase for even the most avid woodsmen.

Japanese iron and steel has ALWAYS been shit. They literally used pig iron and never properly refined it to tool grade steel while turning it into ceremonial tools.

That's why the best weapons they made were bows and giant ironbar clubs because the metal used in them didn't need to be folded as much and just did their basic jobs fine.

But Japanese tools were always shit. They make a big deal about their tools falling apart in their old media because it always fucking happened despite their iron being no better than what people had in Scotland or England and producing massively inferior items with them.

>>32047880

>reforging a european sword

Throw that shit into the smelter after removing the hilt wrap. Make new sword.

Which is literally what they did. One of the most lucrative jobs for peasants was raiding the fuck out of battlefields and gathering the weapons so they could sell them to a local blacksmith who'd refashion the metal into tools and weapons.

>>32047732

Noone wore a fitting helm without an underlay that was made from padded wool or whatever soft material they had for absorbing impact.

Poor people just used a layered cloth to prevent being brained while rich people had actual designed equipment for the role. Same as every era.

>>32048051
>Throw that shit into the smelter after removing the hilt wrap. Make new sword.

So yeah, my point was that European swords broke and became literal scrap metal, and Japanese swords bent and could be bent back.

>>32047989
Why, the babykilling AR, of course!

>>32047988
It might also have to do with the fact that the Japanese have a serious hardon for their swords and therefore kept them around / in good condition whilst Europeans discarded them immediately when firearms came around.

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Is it stupid to think that katanas are pretty much bullshit, yet at the same time greatly enjoy Japanese samurai manga where the slicing and dicing approaches body horror levels of gruesomeness?

>>32048535
Sort of like how guns are portrayed in Western media.

>>32047988
>Also, show me a photo of Kusanagi and tell me how perfect its condition is
Can't show you something that's been rotting on the ocean floor for hundreds of years.

>>32048535
Yes.

Katanas are just heavy sabers, weebs being retarded about them doesn't mean that you have to be a retarded westaboo in reaction.

>>32048535
ever read Vagabond? shit it pretty cash

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>>32048558

Yeah, too bad about the eternal hiatus. Shigurui at least is finished.

>>32048580
>The story is about to become about the legendary Musashi vs Kojirō fight
This is another fucking boat trip

The amount of ignorance in this thread is very vexatious.

1.Japanese swords were made out of meteor iron sand, which is inherently harder than Euro steel.
2.Japanese swordsmiths were dedicated to their art and only made sword, European "swordsmiths" were just blacksmiths and ironmongers.
3.Japanese swordmasters (or "sword-saints" heh heh) were trained in the use of their swords far beyond that of European knights, so the idea of cutting through bone or inferior steel is quite possible by focusing the energy of the strike through the point of contact on the curved blade (not possible on straight Euro "swords").

>>32037319
no
see: ulfberht

>>32048609
>Those swords can't be sharp because another sword can be sharp!

Westaboos and weeaboos need to be sent to the moon to die.

>>32048606

You are such a fucking weeb

>>32047885
>>32047248
>>32047571
no

>>32047571
>armor on everything
>expect the feet
Gee Gee gooks

>>32038526
This. Anyone have context?

>>32042805
>shit had already gone pear-shaped anyways.

More like spear-shaped, amirite?

>>32047988
Actually, the sword isn't shown because after the technocracy established their version of the consensus, talismans react badly to the modern consensus.

>>32047895
>I am 6 and what is metallurgy

>>32047666
>Not to say cutting mats means much,
Soaked tatami wrapped around bamboo is actually a pretty good human limb analogue, and happens to show very clearly how good your cut was by how smooth or ragged it is.

>>32047571
everything except the chain was laquered wood and silk. this was due to the scarcity of iron in the region.

>>32050930
It was lacquered iron scale mail.

>>32038691

>katanas are heavy as fuark

A real katana properly made from tamahagane is like 1.5-2.5lbs including the mountings. Not heavy by any standards.

>>32039517
>implying weapons aren't the nerdiest objects one can own

>>32048051

>Their swords would last more than a few years otherwise but only the most meticulously maintained blades last the test of time by basically bathing the thing in oil and leaving it in a glass cabinet with moisture absorbing shit.

I own nihonto that are well over half a millenium old and are still rust free. The Japanese polished their swords with stones when needed, not more than once or twice a century, They were indeed well cared for, but there definitely was no climate control in medieval japan where the humidity rises to almost pure saturation for months out of the year. As for the never ending argument of which is better, swords are swords. neither european or japanese swords were designed for edge to edge combat. striking hardened steel on hardened steel is going to result in cracks regardless of the alloy content of the steel for the most part. For cutting down unarmored/lightly armored opponents like what they were intended for, both are viable weapons.

>>32048606
what the fuck even is meteor iron sand?

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Holy christ this thread. The actual serious posts are somehow even more wrong than the joke ones.

>>32053119
As long as they're kept clean, oiled, and stored in a semi-controlled environment like, say, a palace, you can keep a sword in great condition for a very long time.

Which also goes into the Shinto aspect of their culture, in that any sufficiently old, properly cared for items were kami, or small gods.

>>32037319
>>32037340
Any sword, when appropriately sharpened and in the hands of someone with good technique, can cut through bone