Everyone talks about how reliable the AK-47 is, but what else

>>32014993
maybe original milled AK-47s were really that reliable but don't try burying and firing your century if you want to keep your hands

what you heard was a lie.

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>>32015012

That's fine. I am still curious what operates the best with the least maintenance though

>>32015028
the nugget

The original 1911 design was very reliable, faithfully serving GIs in all types of conditions from the forests of France to the jungles of Guadalcanal and from the frozen mountains of Norway to the burning sands of the Mexican desert.

>>32014993
Before we deployed to Iraq (was a 0311) we had a threat weapons class.

An instructor showed like 20 different guns. He even supported the "AK so reliable" meme. I finger fucked it, seemed like a piece of shit to me.

The cool part was getting to diddle an mp40. Well technically she was older than me.

>>32014993

the AK failed the mud test and the AR passed it

AK mud test-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU&t=47s

AR mud test-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
tl;dw the AK is a big ol open system and more crap can get in it and the AR is a more closed system

The Mauser 98 probably holds the world record for reliability and accuracy under combat conditions in all parts of the world. It's been used in almost every war of the last century.

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>>32015053

That's actually pretty interesting. What else was there?

>>32015059
Yep, I watched these videos when I began thinking about this. But I recall a thread where a bunch of /k/ommandos said that this test didn't matter because it wasn't a real world condition, and that the AK can withstand many more rounds in much worse weather conditions over more extended time.

>>32015070
I thought the Mosin saw more action?

>>32014993
Buy a colt or FN ar and never care again sempai. Then replace the trigger and the handguard and you have a competition rifle. Then take the oldhandguard and old trigger and build a PSA around it.
Now you have two incredible and reliable rifles.
Then, buy a 2000$+ piston ar10.

>>32015124
No. It has to do with the finish and metal quality of the critical parts of the machine. The modern AR has pretty much solved it. Only more reliable stuff I've seen is a vepr ak, and KAC sr25 post 2012

>>32015124
Oh man, it's been a while, and late my brain isn't 100%.

Basically any milsurp rifle from Russia or China, ww2 whatever. They took what they could get.

I remember it because it's the first time they described thermobaric weapons to us.

Also RPGs, the different kinds, how to identify. It is cool.

Like I said mp40 was my favorite, so simple but works. Instructor said you could load box 9mm from current day and it would fire.

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>>32015156

>Then, buy a 2000$+ piston ar10.

thats a funny way of saying SCAR

>>32015182
> Cracked plastic stock trunnion
> Cracked reciver
> Can't 1000 yard 3" reliably
> Military literally burns/torches hundreds of them because the real cost of the gun is practically nothing
> No steaming piles of sr25s because they are not grossly inflated guns
What's it like being a newfag nogunz?

>>32015156

That's a cool idea, but not what I'm asking about

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>>32014993
How hold the AK variants like the Galil or Valmet up? I have a good portion of experience with the SIG 550 rifles and they have no malfunctions

The sks is the king of all reliability.

>>32015070

the K98 lost the germans the war, froze solid during stalingrad.

>>32015053
Like a class at FWIC? I've been trying to get into that forever.

>>32015182
>>32015228
no one in the business likes the scar

>>32015228
i'm not a fan of overpriced fn GUNS, but most of those issues are either false or already fixed.

>>32015182

scars are ugly as fuck. the whole top/back half of the rifle is gay and retarded looking.

>>32014993
MAS-49

>>32014993
Bolt actions that don't use mannlicher style clips are reliable unless you put dirt in between the bolt and the chamber, which, under most conditions should be easy to avoid.

Typical AR-18 derivatives like SCAR or G36 are also very reliable.
>>32015999
All rifles have frozen. It's just that mosins had:
1) rimmed cardridge that makes ejecting in extreme temperatures easier(ever wondered why Canadian polar guards or whatever they're called still use .303? that's why)
2) straight bolt handle - so when it froze it was easier to kick it open for the first few rounds until it heated up.

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>>32016303
I thought soldiers would piss on them.

Is there any truth to insurgents cleaning their ak barrels with a boot string with a knot at the end being dipped in motor oil and being pulled through?

>>32014993

The AK is 'reliable' not because it's immune to fouling. If you dunk it in mud, an AR will actually do a better job of keeping it out.

The strength of the AK comes in how easy it is to clean it and get it serviceable again after being fouled. ARs are much more difficult to unfuck in field conditions.

Neither will function as intended if its full of mud and gunk.

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>>32015156
>colt or FN ar
>FN ar

>>32015895

a 550 is an AK in the same sense as a diamond is charcoal. While it has the same basic mechanism, it's incredibly different where quality control, precision specs, and manufacturing methods are concerned.

The Galil is functional in its intended environment, but you'll notice that the ISF have switched up their platforms in recent years, and chose not to stick with an AK variant.

However, other countries, like Sweden, have stuck with them. The Swedish AK5 is a fantastic cold-weather rifle, with the added benefit of being already familiar to their soon-to-be Muslim Overlords. They were really ahead of the ball on that one.

The Valmet I have no experience with or real knowledge of.

>>32016511

FN makes the majority (or VERY significant amount, anyway) of M4s for the military. They also have other mil/LE offerings. Not sure how available they are to the public, though.

>>32016531

just checked.

Very available

>>32016523
What are you on about? The AK5 is an FNC, unless that is your point. A muslim that barely got to handle an AKM in his mandatory service won't figure out an AK5.

>>32015182
I love that the scar is best shitposting rifle on /k/

>>32014993
If you shove pretty much any rifle into a cess pool of mud and silt water it's very likely it will have problems. This includes AKs. They don't have a bunch of shit that needs to be regular replaced like on an AR15 however. This is why they last so long in shitholes full of conscripts.

>>32015124
>I ignored an actual reliability test because of what /k/ said
Holly shit.

>>32014993
Put some rust preventing coating bore.
Have really loose tolerances.
Be "reliable".

To me reliability is never having a malfunction while properly, or at least somewhat, properly maintained.

When did burying something in mud for weeks become a benchmark of reliability?

>>32014993
Makarovs and similar pistols are pretty reliable.

>>32017337
Dumping mud on your gun and having it work doesn't equal reliability dumbass.
Having it work in combat conditions (concussion, repeated intense and sustained usage, being thrown, ) all play a factor in how "reliable" the gun is. As long as it goes bang when you put your booger hook on the bang switch it's a reliable gun.

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>>32017258

That makes sense. Do they use fewer parts in total or are the components just not as small/more robust?

How does the FAL stack up?

>>32014993
The misconception is about its reliability vs maintenance. Drop an AK into the mud and it will jam like anything else, however keep it dirt out of it and it will pretty much work indefinitely, regardless of whether or not you clean and lube it

>>32015059
Interesting, but the chance of huge amounts of mud being inserted into a gun is pretty slim. Besides wasnt it Karnival or some Youtuber that put a slab of ham into the receiver of an AK and kept firing?

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>>32015988
Hello

>>32015156
FN's barrels are the best

Everything else they make is passable

>>32015059
I always feel like there is a bias in these kinds of videos but not towards either gun but to just wanting to disprove common myths. It also happens in accuracy comparison videos trying to say that aks are about as accurate as an ar

The XM8.

Remember the dust test.

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>>32017695

Do those aftermarket higher capacity magazines have any jamming issues? I've heard mixed things

>>32017844
Haven't had a chance to test yet, cause I'm a retard and broke my heels, so currently in a wheelchair. Got it off cheaper than dirts website. ~$30 with shipping.

>>32017893
>my heels

Both of them?

>>32017719
Thier BCG are legendary as well.

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>>32017919
Yes, jumping a 10" fence with a duffel bag.. fuck I'm stoopid

>>32017942
>10 inch fence
>broke both heels

Why'd you even jump it? Just step over the thing.

>>32017844
Promag ones do but the tapco mags run fine if you grind off the lower shelves on the sks bolt, the ones that ride in the factory attached magazine lips.

>>32014993
>I hear stories about AK's being buried for weeks
This is true, they are.

But everyone leaves out the part where they're in trash bags that are then wrapped with a gorillion miles of tape then wrapped in a blanket which is then wrapped in a rug which is then crammed in a section of PVC pipe and sealed.

Under such "burying" conditions literally any weapon ever made would be fine.

>>32017952
I meant 10 foot fence, told you I was stupid ha

>>32015124
>I trust a bunch of nogunz NEETs who masturbate to Chinese cartoons more than I trust video evidence of ak's failing when mud gets on them
It doesn't matter the conditions, what matters is that the AR passed the exact same test, making it more reliable than the ak at something that can translate to dropping your gun in mud

>>32015988

Can anyone else verify?

>>32017375
The AK has bigger parts and in terms of space within the receiver a bigger space for those parts to work in. Carnikcon has a video of him putting a ham samdwich in an AK and it still runs. The thing that makes the AK "more reliable" is the fact that you dont need more than a 2nd grade education to understand how it works and how to make it work if it stops working. Its tard proof.

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Believe the hype, an old AK will stand up to shit-nasty levels of crap and live to tell the tale, worst case scenario you field strip it and shake out the contaminants
As far as I'm aware nobody services their AKMs in the Cuban army any more than absolute minimum inspection standards and they are habitually dropped in swamp exercises and the motherfuckers keep on trucking, work like shit but still spit out lead

This is what I've been told anyhow
Pic semi-related

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Marantz receivers?

>>32017258
>Regularly replaced

Please elaborate
The only thing I can think of is basically the bolt and barrel

https://youtu.be/a8f-rjEDv7g

https://youtu.be/OtuBoPl7l7Y

This me pouring sand into my Slr. If a rifle can handle this, I'm ok with trusting it should fire reliably. EVERY rifle with malfunction eventually. It's an ammunition variability thing and also the fact that we live in an unpredictable world.
Train to work through malfunctions and you'll be fine. Carry a side arm and a knife.
People seem to forget that if your gun goes down you work back to your other options.

I can access my knife and stab someone within 5-10 ft faster than most people could react. By the time you realize there's a threat you might be fucked anyways.
Work up to your pistol.
Use words before conflict.
If they're close, use your fighting skills to create distance.
If they can touch you your too close your a gun except a revolver (contact shots)
Use your knife to get them dead or backing up from being cut up.
Then use your gun to try to get them to surrender to police. If they don't then do what you have to do.

Don't know how this relates but I felt like shitposting.

>>32017695
What have you done to that poor SKS!!

>>32018171
Tapco stock, sight mark red dot, and stubby vfg.
>operator as fuark

>>32018078
A ham sandwich is nothing. I can eat them with my teeth and you're acting like they're a gun's worse nightmare.

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>>32016486
>I thought soldiers would piss on them.
True. But that was because of the ammo they were using, not the Mosin itself.
The ammonia in urine is a base, which is decently good at neutralizing the corrosive salts in the ammo. Water works too, though. Anything that flushes out the salts themselves.
http://www.scotts-gunsmithing.com/f-a-q/gunsmith-related-f-a-q/corrosive-ammunition-cleaning-tips/

>Is there any truth to insurgents cleaning their ak barrels with a boot string with a knot at the end being dipped in motor oil and being pulled through?

Don’t know. But that’s basically a ghetto bore snake. Don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

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>>32018103
Muh nigga

>>32015172
Modern AR still has reliability issues -- O-rings sometimes need to be broken in. Gas systems can be underpowered if you go with "the wrong one".

>>32016204
>>32015228
Did SCAR win the 2016 election? What's with the salt?

>>32018350
>modern ar reliability issues
Boils down to operator error 100% of the time
>go to range with former co-worker
>bring 5yr old gucci block ii clone, and psl
>let co-worker shoot my ar
>jams, fte,ftf everywhere
>half the mag in the dirt
What the fuck are you doing to my ar
Guy charged it every fucking round and rode the ch home every time. He got a kiss from his scope on his 270

>>32018141
And only after like ten thousand rounds or more

>>32018363
Wtf do you mean do you speak English?

>>32018551
Barrel: For a $40 part that doesn't break catastrophically (have read of people not immediately noticing bolt lugs shearing) that isn't bad at all. You can throw a bolt inside the grip or stock and it should take all but a couple minutes to change

The barrel part is true for other guns including the AK as well

The biggest issue I have with AR's is stuck casings. The fact that mortaring is even a thing is dumb.

>>32018662
I said that backwards I meant bolt is $40 obviously

>>32015156

FN FNC adapted for cold weather use is superior to both.

>>32017993
>more reliable than the ak at something that can translate to dropping your gun in mud
Today I learned that dumping a gallon of mud into the action of an AK is equivalent to dropping it.

>>32016486
in syria guys were just dumping motor oil into the receiver and calling that "cleaning"

they also discovered that a cigarette butt was about the same diameter as the barrel, so butts got used as plugs to keep debris out. FWIW, no one there used M16s/AR15s despite them being readily available (with ammunition as well) in the market.s

The Vickers in .303 is by far and away the greatest machinegun ever made. Examples decomissioned in the late 60s were getting through millions (actual millions) of rounds with only barrel and belt changes without a single stoppage.

>>32017515
CarniK Con did that, but he put a ham sandwich behind the spring. Basically, sandwich got squished when the bolt came back and all it had to do was get out of the sandwich and get back into battery. Not exactly a feat. It would be like putting a slab of ham between your BCG and your buffer tube. Messy, but pretty safe.

>>32015059
>take shittiest romanian shit not even real ak
>take latest new ar
LOL LOOK AK UNRELIABLE LOOL FUCKINGG KEK SYSTEM IS SHIT

>>32021903
i don't think an AR in 5.56 would be able to do that desu senpai. Nor with the peanut butter he used as well.

>>32021924
Did no one even watch my videos? Lol. Maybe I'll dump mud into my ak and everyone will start shilling arsenals

>b-but muh mud test said the AR is more reliable

the reliable AK meme is not because it's inherently more reliable or never fouls up, it's because it has a slightly more simple action and can be field stripped and cleaned more easily, that's why retarded goat farmers can use it for 50 years without problems

>>32018574
He's saying you're assmad because SCAR is better

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>>32018159
>I can access my knife and stab someone within 5-10 ft faster than most people could react. By the time you realize there's a threat you might be fucked anyways.

>>32015059
Mudtest like this is kind of a shitty way to prove reliability because you're replicating a situation that would probably never occur unless you went swimming in a bog with your rifle.

Testing the relability of a weapon is more realistically done by shooting it a lot, using ammunition of varying quality, and counting the number and types of failures. That's how military trail boards usually test reliability.

>>32023220
nah, there are actually several features that contribute to the AKs reliability
it uses different strategies from the AR

large bolt/carrier mass and lots of gas helps, lots of open space in the action helps, tapered cartridge helps, good mags (way better design than AR) helps, etc

>>32016523
The AK5 is only related to the Ak47 in a second cousin once removed fashion.

>>32016303
>All rifles have frozen
>>32016486
>I thought soldiers would piss on them.

In Finnish front they simply removed the oil off the rifles during wintertime. They do it today as well with RKs.

Especially RK bolt should be very dry to the point that when you shake it in your hand, the firing pin audibly tinkles brightly inside the bolt. That's how you prepare for extreme freeze.

Gun oils simply thicken in the cold freeze, to the point that firing pin doesn't hit the primer but only slides against it. Like it was shock absorbed by that viscous film of oil.

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>>32023454
>The music

>>32023756
>In Finnish front they simply removed the oil off the rifles during wintertime. They do it today as well with RKs.
>Especially RK bolt should be very dry to the point that when you shake it in your hand, the firing pin audibly tinkles brightly inside the bolt. That's how you prepare for extreme freeze.
>Gun oils simply thicken in the cold freeze, to the point that firing pin doesn't hit the primer but only slides against it. Like it was shock absorbed by that viscous film of oil.
I heard they use powdered graphite (printer toner) for lube after degreasing, is that true?

Or was it Huldesalv?

>>32017375
Sorry I took so long to reply. The AR15 has gas rings, smaller lugs on the bolt, a gas tube that eventually wears out, a charging handle that will break if you're careless with it, and probably the biggest weak point structurally is the buffer tube. That being said, keeping a round count and replacing the gas tube, springs, bolt, etc when you're supposed to will keep your AR running like a fucking champ. The AK is just simple and beefy everywhere it needs it and in the places it doesn't as well.

>>32023925
We never used it, for two reasons: it just adds up with soot accumulation, and may add up as a corrosive agent. The galvanic series is a bitch.

The idea of "drawing off the oil" is to prevent massive oil film formation especially in tight clearances like in bolt-firing pin assembly. There will anyway always be some oil left in pores and on the steel surface as a very very thin layer. That's the point of the whole thing.

If there is an uniform massive oil film that connects both such tight fitted surfaces and then gets drastically more viscous due to extreme cold, you get that dragging effect where firing pin simply doesn't strike the primer strong enough anymore.

You have to then strip the rifle, heat the bolt with a lighter or throw it on the tent stove for a while to get it running again.

>>32016531

No, no they don't. They make all SAWs and 240's tho.

>>32023580
That happens though
Don't forget soldiers spend months outdoors and a single good rainstorm can turn the entire ground to mud
It's not a problem in Sandistan but it is anywhere that gets decent amounts of rainfall

>>32024687
If you drop your rifle during a fire fight, you're likely dead anyways, and if it's Vietnam, you'll have a hard time finding it.

Just watch any vietnam vet take apart his AR's BCG, he'll put his firing retaining pen in his mouth because if he loses that in the jungle, he'll never see it again.

>>32024749
>If you drop your rifle during a fire fight, you're likely dead anyways
If you're at very close range maybe but if you're with a group in cover exchanging fire at range, being able to have a gun that can stand up to muddy conditions and being able to keep providing fire is a great benefit.
It's not even just dropping it full-on into a goopy mud puddle that's the issue, guns in any combat zone are liable to get dirty just from being in use.
What if you have to take cover prone in a muddy crater? Anything like that that may bring your gun into contact with mud could cause problems and it's greatly beneficial if you have a weapon that can stand up to that.

>>32024817
Well, the military teaches you never to drop your rifle and while accidents do happen, if you do drop your rifle in a firefight you're probably going to get killed unless you're near cover anyways.

These tests also don't really show what you're suggesting, instead of actually dropping these rifles in mud, they just pour mud into them. These are very different circumstances.

>>32014993
AK-47 early soviet block era=Good
AK-47 Post 70's=Bad

For real though, the most reliable gun around is a bolt action, and the most reliable of them is probably the nugget. It's not because it is a superior rifle, but actually the contrary. It is so crude and has such huge tolerances that breaking one takes serious effort. The difference is that because of surplus ammo, you do need to clean it after you are done shooting, but if you get dirt in the receiver you just slam the bolt a bit harder and it will go into action.

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>>32021903
The AK jams in that video though. Right before it fades to black.

>>32023432
Thanks.
It's just not better than an SR25 tho.
The military doesn't just burn sr25s

>>32014993
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU

Ar-15 is better.

>this entire thread

I've never seen so much Fudd lore in my life. Of you want a weapon to function in adverse conditions, make it so the conditions don't make it into the gun. This loose tolerance nonsense is retarded. Of the tolerances are bigger, then bigger pieces of dirt and grit will get into them just the same. You have to seal off the internals of the gun completely. The AR comes close. And AK with the safety on comes close. If you're talking about a gun functioning in dirty conditions however, the rather ridiculous truth is that your best bet is the FS2000, because of how completely sealed up it is.

>>32018339

Dat sticker...me too bro. I left mine on. SR5010 and JBL speakers.

>>32017986
>>32017952
THE GNOMES ARE BRINGING DRUGS AND THEIR RAPISTS ACROSS THE BORDER

WE NEED TO BUILD A FENCE

THE FENCE JUST GOT TEN INCHES HIGHER

>>32026803
that may be true with it being an entirely closed system, but have you ever tried clearing a jam from one of those bastards?

>>32026803
>loose tolerance
Clearance. Please use that expression in that context.

*Tolerance* is a manufacturing term for machining and fitting parts. It describes the upper and lower limits of tolerable dimensions of parts and fittings for a functional system. You have to live with tolerance.

*Clearance* is a designed dimensional feature in a system.

>>32014993
the galil

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>2016
>Not using internal piston
I can't even call you faggots poorfags because PSA kits are sub $500 now. You're just shit tier retards enjoying fantasy at this point desu.

>>32024320
literally every m4 in the arms room of 3 line units ive been in had at least one FN part on it. FN has dibs on any colt parts that need to be replaced

>>32015999
>this faggot actually thinks small arms lost the battle of stalingrad for the Germans.

I bet you also think Germany would have won the war if they all had stg44s.

>>32030741
Aren't low end pistons a shit? Don't u need proprietary parts to prevent the problems related to carrier tilt and bolt lug wear? Amoung other issues, I know that with good NiB or TiN bolts, carriers, gas rings and gas tube, the problem of fouling in a DI system is pretty much solved.

>>32014993
pure bullshit. ak47s jam like crazy here in mongolia. and using soviet era rounds straight out of surplus boxes doesn't help.

>>32014993
A modern AR-15 can.

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>>32015999
Not exactly buddy.
Bold actions don't freeze in extreme weather other than in some very rare cases

>>32031023
>Mistaking internal piston for short-stroke piston or DI
>>32031041
>Bold actions don't freeze in extreme weather other than in some very rare cases


KEK!

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>>32015182
This, sucks that there is a shortage of places selling them at the moment. Finally came into the extra cash to buy one and no one is selling a Scar 17 besides gunbroker and like hell I'm buying from gunbroker.

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>>32031080
Your going to have to wait until like February to get one for a decent price.

>>32016189
Pro tip: In WWII the Germans found that sunflower seed oil worked best as a weapons lube during extreme cold.

>>32030975
If Germany didn't have Assault Rifles instead of bolt action rifles you dont think that would make a major difference on the war?

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>>32018159

>>32031080
got my sr-15 on gunbroker
I'm was gonna buy a SCAR next week but I'm just not wanting to spend the extra 500 right now, not worth it to me

>>32034419
Yeah, just a little.. But notice how people won't even try to respond to me. What faggots. I love the ar but people think they're going to get into intense firefights as civilians or something

>>32015042
he said the least amount of maintenance, not the least amount of caring because your piece of shit slavboo weapon was cheap at one point you faggot.

>>32014993
>Everyone talks
>I hear stories
That's because that's all it ever is; Talk and stories.

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>>32014993
>Hmmm so AK is relaible gun huh?
>*procedes to grab gun, fill it with small rocks, smother it in mud, fill it with mud, run it over a couple of times, take a fucking dremel to it*
>lmao it doesn't work..... Fucking AK fag liars
>*procedes to grab AR, farts on it*
>OMG THIS THING STILL SHOOTS SEE MORE RELIABLE THAN AN AK! IT EVEN HELD ZERO!!

fuck me, when will people realize that guns aren't meant to be tortured to such a degree, sure it gets covered in mud and stuff people wipe that shit off with they're hands.

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Dont mind me,
Just being the Superior Never Jam Go Through Anything Gun Of Forever that no one here will ever fire

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>>32015895
Valmet & Sakos are equally robust and reliable as their role models. I'd dare to say even more reliable thanks to few small simplifying changes in the internals. Most of the RKs are also milled.
AFAIK, Galil's are solid workhorses too, but their QA tends to be step below RKs.

Yanks did some cold-weather test on numerous guns back in late 80s, which the AK-likes totally dominated.

>>32024687
yeah but you wouldn't do it with the fucking bolt open...

>>32037922
Not realy surprising
The Valmet was the best quality AK i have handeld so far. Due to the geographic location of the countries this guns were desinged for it is clear they should hot have a problem to operate in winter

>>32015047
From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tropoli

>>32037922
Anyone who experiences a problem with the bolt not going home and decides that bashing it forward with the assist is the best course of action is a complete dipshit.

The FA is one of the worst decisions ever implemented with the platform desu.

The selector/mag freezing issue is a real one and it's not one that's exclusive to the AR-15.