The Future of Warfare is Urban

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Impossibly small alleyways, low light for days on end.

Unfriendly migrant populaces from all corners of the world, communications breakdowns among different populations all within a single square mile. And you and your squad in the middle.

Seems pretty straightforward, just use gas to avoid buildings collapsing on innocents or innocents getting hit by shrapnel or ricochets. When you're done gassing, send in a fuckoff huge bulldozer and excavator to clean up, with a few troops managing leftovers.

>>31988690
The future is drone swarms around a small core of highly trained O P E R A T O R S.

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This seems like a nightmare. The locals aren't going to rat on their commie insurgent neighbors.

You might be able to breach & clear 80 middle east mud huts in a night, but this is some next level stack-on lego brick city shit. A brown teenager with a bandana and a weapon in every rat hole.

Just fuckin nuke it

>>31988690
>>31988712
>future warfare
>posts pics of Kowloon Walled City, which was demolished like 29 or 30 years ago

>>31989066
Kowloon only came into being after migrant populaces from low resource regions started to build. The same will happen now that coastal populations like the Bangladeshis are doing the same. Expect multiple Kowloons to pop up quickly and more often.

>>31988690
Hasn't this been known since 2004 or something?

>>31989042
Turn off the electricity
Prevent food from coming in.
Modern cities can't deal with seiges

>>31989113

That's a fantastic way to turn a city that's 99% friendly into 100% unfriendly.

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>>31989113
Yes they can. They will turn into some seriously heinous shit though, with Butchery and cannibalism. Eventually the people in this city would rip apart the authoritarians in charge, and surrender to the people cutting off the city.
It would be a nightmare even if you were armed to the teeth.

>>31989131
>1% hostility
Sound more like a police problem than a war

This will be more of a problem in Europe than in say North America.

Given that the US has less than 10% of its land developed and Canada is less than 5%.

Certainly the cities will expand, but up here in Canada we're seeing more people leaving the cities to live out in rural towns or in the country side.

Outside of that, it is pure fear mongering.

>>31989176

Like they point out in the video, 1% of hostiles in a city of 10 million means a hundred thousand enemies.

>>31989176
Sounds like it until you realize that 1% of a city with a population of 10 million is 100,000 combatants.

>>31989242
In my Texan city its literally turning into a mega city, we have apartment complexes that are over 50 stories tall. I can only imagine NYC and shit like that, as well as those estates in Europe that look like those commie housing units.

>Pruitt-Igoe everywhere

>>31989242
Watch the video in the OP. That's kind of the whole focus of this thread.

>>31989281
If you haven't already, get out to the country side.

>>31989300
I did, and I just don't see it becoming like that here in Canada. It'll be like South Africa with walled off properties before that kind of stacking happens.

>>31989248
>>31989254

Sounds like we're back to starving them out then. There is no way you root out 100,000 combatants without causing major collateral damage anyway.

>>31989336
>get out to the country side

I'm joining the military, I'd like to oper8, but if/when I get out I plan on it.

>>31989413
>>31989248
>>31989254

Refer to >>31989153
It will be a zoo. They won't be "combatants" they will be violent fucking rioters who are mostly unarmed.

>what is artillery, the thread

sarajevo sarajevo

What's a good place to read more about this stuff? I've googled it but I'd like to read reports and simulations if possible.

>>31988690
Sounds badass

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We solved this problem back in the 50s you fags.

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Shit building regulations
Floors collapsing randomly
Buildings so close you can simply hop from one window to another room, but there are 300ft drops between them
Rainwater and sewage leaks everywhere, no maintenance team daring to go in and fix them
Haphazard power grids built by migrants themselves
And random groups of radicals, made up of second generation immigrant males in their 20s and 30s.

Sound pretty neat

>>31989653
I literally though of ghost in the shell while watching the video.

On top of it with social media growing like it does, and the advent of computers surgically attached to humans we're nearly there.

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>>31989653
The future is looking pretty cyberpunk, boys.

>>31988690
>Small pockets of combatants surrounded by thousands of noncombatants

That's not warfare, it's law enforcement

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>>31989793
Traditional warfare is effectively dead.

>>31988690
>1% of a city is hostile
>99% is not hostile to you.
Why dont they just ask the 99% to kill the 1%?

Send some guys to train the 99%.

>>31988712
>>31989088
Sorry, but another city like the Kowloon Walled City will likely never happen as very specific circumstances lead to its creation.

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>>31988690
>the future will continue to become more cyberpunk
Okay, so when do we get the cool cyberpunk shit instead of just the current soykaf? I guess environments like this are why the US military is investing in that TALOS program, because fuck nonstop room clearing in a megacity with significant resistance without heavy body armor.

>>31989847
By your logic Baltimore and Sao Paulo should be paradises by now. Good job.

>>31989767
Was this picture taken in Tokyo? It looks so damn familiar.

>>31990183
>Okay, so when do we get the cool cyberpunk shit instead of just the current soykaf?
Soon. A lot of the really cyberpunk stuff is being held back by government regulation, whether it's FDA regs around implantable chips or the NFA making spaceguns annoyingly hard to make. We now have a President who campaigned on clearing out silly regulations.

>>31989847
Just because they're not hostile doesn't mean they're about to go out of their way to help you. If yhey were willibg to do that you wouldn't have a war in yhe first place.

If some Mexican soldier knocked on your door and asked you to help him find and kill some Canadian 'terrorist' you'd tell him to fuck off, you've got a life and don't get paid for that shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAwo7DPUFUM

cyberpunk is here

>>31988712
That pic reminds me of Akira

Cyberpunk dystopia here we come. Can we finally all agree that 10mm is the best round now?

>>31988690
hopefully it reaches judge dredd tier

>>31989830
No, there are still places as mentioned, that don´t be effected in a similar way as predicted in the video. That´s why, traditional warfare and conventional warfare will be a thing in the future.

>>31990283
Kowloon, when that guy says future... He means decades ago

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>>31992256
>Kowloon
There is clearly Japanese writing on the sign all the way on the left of the picture, and in a couple other places.

>>31991539
>not 5.45x18mm

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PLA deployed.

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>>31992390
Fortifying HongKong against the Imperialists and seccessionists.

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>>31992403
REEEE AMERICA GIT OUT!

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>>31992421
America will never take HongKong.

>>31992390
>>31992403

Why has Hong Kong turned into Venice? Global warming?

>>31988690
You need a lot more "eyes" and advanced pattern recognition algorithms to identify various threats. You can't waste time anymore, the action must become much faster and decisive. You have to give lot more liberty for the unit to decide, or in other words, you need to take the ball and chain off their ankles.

How's the BOPE is doing nowadays in favelas? Are they getting any better?

>>31992390
>>31992403
>>31992421
>>31992434
Fuck off. Dumping vaguely related images isn't contributing to the thread and your pictures are shit.

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>>31992436
basically.

Murrica takes the advantage to invade HK.

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>>31990183
>>31990294
I can't wait to have an android body. Shit's gonna be wicked sick.

I wonder how far small arms will advance? Hopefully my current arsenal will do.

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>>31990183
Cant wait for exoskeleton battles.

>>31989767
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvaC6cIrntI#t=35m03s

>>31989113
>Implying they aren't already living without electricity.

>>31992390
>>31992403
>>31992421
>>31992434
I too have played battlefield 4. got any more pictures that aren't for ants?

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>>31991539
>Can we finally all agree that 10mm is the best round now?
Yes.

>urban combat

THE TIME OF THE MECH HAS COME

>>31992770

There is some truth to that. You probably have to do climbing and rappelling more than ever before. That part or equipment will probably develop quite a lot.

>>31992542
>I wonder how far small arms will advance? Hopefully my current arsenal will do.
Considering ESAPI plates can stop everything that a soldier would normally carry short of a battle rifle or MMG loaded with tungsten carbide core AP ammunition (like the 7.62x51mm M993 AP, or whatever the Russian equivalent is), and the US military's TALOS program is supposed to use XSAPI plates that are required to stop at least two rounds of that 7.62x51mm M993 AP ammunition. You're going to either need to get used to aiming at areas that aren't covered by those XSAPI plates, get a battle raifu and load some saboted tungsten carbide loads (like a 7.62x51mm M948 SLAP equivalent), or move up to magnum rifle ammunition as the v50 for XSAPI plates against m993 AP is at least 3200 FPS so you'd need at least .300 Win Mag loaded with the previously mentioned M993 AP bullets to effectively penetrate the plates more than 50% of the time at 110 yards and .300 RUM to reach out to a little over 150 yards, .30-06 would be good enough inside 50 yards (all of this assuming you have a 24" barrel and are going with max loads).

>>31992542
>>31992904
Should also mention, claimed coverage with those XSAPI plates is between 40% and 60% of the soldier's body.

>>31992654
If only they would mean anything beyond just lifting things. Jumping tech, along with actually doing cool things with them, is still a long way off.

>>31988690
>The Pentagon says the future of warfare is urban.

It's like nobody studied the Eastern Front of WW2 or found out why U.S. were kicking ass in every town and city while the British got cucked in Caen. This just shows you how incompetent the Pentagon can get.

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>>31988690
REQUESTING LINK TO THE ARMOR IN MODERN URBAN WARFARE ARTICLE

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>>31988836
>just use gas to avoid buildings collapsing on innocents

i mean if were going to kill everyone with gas who fucking cares about "innocents". lemme tell you something they arent innocent when they are helping johnny commie kill you

>>31988690
Large population centers will just be surrounded, blockaded and starved out.

No country on earth is actually going to be so retarded that they send their soldiers into a multi-million population meatgrinder like Rio, Cairo, Dubai, Tokyo, Seoul or Shanghai when they can just force them out with vastly fewer casualties, it might take forever but it's the obvious way to go.

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>>31993954
>>31994048
in the paper im refering to, it goes through us armoed urban warfare tactics from ww2, NAM, and iraq 2 the electric boogaloo

>>31994060
honestly i can kinda see this changing if this "self sustaining city" bullshit gets off the ground

people are starting to talk about skyscrapers with a few floors containing farms that would crank out cheap vegetables year round (think tomatoes and so on), along with shit like solar roofs (tesla is already doing this i think) and solar windows so that buildings can contribute to the power network on their own.

sure it might suck to have to eat a bunch of tomatoes and lettuce grinded up into a paste and you might have rolling brownouts, but that's better than having no food and no power.

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>>31994139
well what we used to do if i remember correctly is shell the place, send in armor and the boys and we wou shell directly behind the block we were fighting in so no reiennforcements no retreat and we would basically just blow every building up. slow going but it worked

>>31994163
eh, like >>31994060 said it's hard to actually fight people directly

and leveling entire megacities sounds honestly useless. why would you destroy that infrastructure when you could use it?

this is just something i'm pulling out of my ass, but maybe it's best for the military to be decentralized. really decentralized. like have the commanders over in bumfuck nowhere assigning shit like cities that have to be taken, then have it go down to regional commanders who assign high value targets (as in take a city and the area 50 km around it and that's their area), then from there have it go immediately down to the individual squads and fireteams who use shit like drones, algorithms, maybe neural hookups or whatever to have really good spacial awareness.

obviously this is far future but imo it might work. instead of leveling an entire building, you can have a support drone from one squad pop over to shoot into a specific part of a floor, then you can have another drone throw in smoke, then you can have a fire team or five come in and clean everybody up.

i'm tired as fuck right now but what do you think?

>>31994201
why though? that would take more time and cost more money with no guarantee that youve cleared out the block. if you really have to clear a mega city there are only 2 real options and they both equal total destruction. either you nuke it, or you go block to block and deystroy everything.. or you starve it if you can pull that off

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>>31994163
this is barely going to make any sense but i drew this shitty ms paint thing to help illustrate what i mean

black is walls, red is bad guys, green is team 1, dark blue is team 2. brown is team 1's gunfire, light blue is team 2's gunfire. i'm assuming penetration is possible because :^)

the idea is units are interlinked, they both know where enemies are through data transfer (so if you see a guy in one place maybe they get a thing on some HUD or they just instinctively know where the guy is), and as they move through the houses (keep in mind i've only played paintball so i know literally nothing about how small arms tactics works) they will take out enemies for each other and so on

>>31994269
well i'm not so much talking about clearing an entire mega city so much as clearing specific parts of it you know are bad

it's just i don't see the point of leveling something like shanghai. if you have to kill most people in it that's fine, but leveling it is a bit far imo. if you want to level it you might as well not even go in it.

again i'm sorry if i don't make sense, i'm tired m8.

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>Enemy is entrenched in an urban population center knowing this will make it neigh impossible to dislodge them
>Drop a small yield tactical nuclear weapon on it and go around
>Repeat as necessary

I am
NOT
FUCKING
KIDDING

The west hasn't won a war since the hippies happened. War is a horrible, evil thing to be avoided at all costs, but if you go into it the best and most humane thing to do is to get it over with as quickly as possible.

>>31994299
what your talking cost lives and time. its quicker, better and easier to shell and destroy than some data link hud paintball madness

>>31992904
Would you still need the fancy 7.62x51 inside 50 yards? What about with shorter barrels?

What direction do you think small arms will actually go in response to this? I can't imagine everyone running around with .300 Win Mag battle rifles.

>>31994759
>What about with shorter barrels?
Effective range decreases accordingly.

>Would you still need the fancy 7.62x51 inside 50 yards?
Plates are rated to stop rounds at their muzzle velocity now days, so yes.

>What direction do you think small arms will actually go in response to this?
Sabot loads probably.

>>31994269
>or you starve it if you can pull that off
And if you're up against generic Islamic insurgency 2030 who believes dying while participating in jihad gets them a free ticket to heaven?

>>31988690
Urban warfare is simplicity itself if you have the following:
>good surveillance (snipers on higher ground observing, different kinds of drones from low alt to high alt with real time reconnaissance)
>close air support and artillery: as soon as fired on from a particular building in front of you, level said building and repeat.
>anti-sniper nets (set them up everywhere)
>build concrete barricades in the suburbs you take (this will stop VBIEDs and provide moar cover)
>heavily armored vehicles that can withstand being FUBARed by multiple ATGMs and rockets, etc. (not tanks, but heavy APC types)
>engineering vehicles are also essential for removing obstacles in a heavily fortified area and for smashing walls, etc.
>avoid walking on open streets (create holes through walls of buildings instead, fight from rooftops and from inside buildings, dig tunnels)
>when taking a fortified city, push from multiple locations at once and secure the entire suburb/district before moving on, leaving a large reserve force behind
>for non-combatants: assume they are all combatants, stop and search, keep people once cleared locked in their homes or evacuate them forcibly from the city until the battle is over, if in doubt, shoot.
>after taking a building, fortify it, including the structure of the building to prevent a collapse
>NEVER expose yourself. Even when inside a building, be mindful that enemies will be able to place projectiles from SPG-9s through windows and small holes, so you cover everything and create sandbag bunkers inside the building itself. Your "eyes and ears", i.e. your snipers and surveillance assets, will locate the enemy and you proceed from there.

>>31994060
Good luck even surrounding a mega city, much less actually having an effective blockade that would truly starve out defenders.


Best case for mega city warfare, take key infrastructure and transport hubs via rapid helo insurrection or Special Forces infiltration, and leave the rest of the city as a no mans land until such time as conventional forces can attack the problem like law enforcement-covert informers, forensics, detective work, patrols, and an effective hearts and minds strategy.