What would modern guns look like if we only had black powder?

>>31965623
no self loaders

bolt action only

>>31965628
not even a recoil operated revolver ?

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>>31965628
Sounds like my kind of dystopian backwards-future resistance against evil monarchical overlords.

>>31965636
black powder can do almost anything that smokless nitro poweder can do
on a smaller scale

but you have way more carbon residue, fouling and basically just dirt out of it
that's why self loading rifles only took off after the introduction of smokeless nitro powder

>>31965628
Nah we'd just chuck a battery-powered electronic actuator on the gun to operate the action for us instead of using the gas.

You're not thinking tactical enough.

>>31965648
>but you have way more carbon residue, fouling and basically just dirt out of it
What about some kind of compressed air system to flush the barrel after each shot?

>>31965628
Bitch please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j84J7VQ02CQ

>>31965652
if you are able to have that technology you would have smokeless powder

thus making the thread obsolete


>>31965657
self loading rifles have been developed, tested and deemed not practical with smokeless powder

that's why i posted >>31965648
of course you can run a gun with smokeless
if you clean and lube it permanently

but that still wouldn't make them practical

>>31965662
>if you are able to have that technology you would have smokeless powder
Yes, but that's not the question OP asked.

He asked what would we do if for whatever reason smokeless powder was impossible or undesirable to use in guns.

>>31965662
They would've been practical if they had been developed earlier, because the Gatling gun was pretty practical.

>>31965662

>self loading rifles have been developed, tested and deemed not practical with smokeless powder
???

>>31965674
>>31965679
>>31965681
i'm talking about gas operated self loaders

ffs no not gatlings, not revolvers, no straight blowback guns

gas operated self loaders

>>31965685

If all we had was black powder, we just wouldn't use gas operation.
There's plenty of other ways to make a semi auto rifle.

>>31965685
Probably not direct impingement, but you could design a piston system that would handle it well enough.

>>31965700
But for the most part they need to have fluted chambers to aide in extraction by floating in a cushion of gas, that would foul up even quicker than a piston system.

I think the most interesting thing is that we would probably have much more effective body armour. Of course with smokeless powder you hit a velocity cap, where you pretty much max out how much energy you can impart on a bullet. As materials science reached the modern era we'd have body armour that was completely effective against black powder weapons much, much sooner.

Snipers would be much less fearsome too.

The interior of armoured vehicles would be much, much less pleasant places when the machineguns and 20mm cannons were going.

Aerial combat thru the second world war would look very, very strange.

Miniguns would double as smoke countermeasures.

>>31965715
>Miniguns would double as smoke countermeasures.
I now want to see a M134 fire black powder boolets

>>31965712

Uh, no.
Why would you even use such a design if it's intended for black powder?

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>>31965623
I reckon given the impracticalities of black powder self loading rifles (rapid and excessive fouling) we would see bolt actions/single shot rifles, but with more lethal ammunition i.e. HE rounds + rifle grenades etc.

What rifles would lack in fire volume would have to be made up in individual round potency,

>>31965712
That's only delayed blowback. There's also recoil operation.

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>>31965657
Came here to post this

>>31965727
I am now imagining a US army breaching some tiny Afghan shack armed with 4 bore double rifles firing dumdum rounds, and then emerging covered head to toe in black ash like cartoon characters.

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More revolvers.
More Mare's Leg style guns.
More pump-actions and lever-actions in general.

>>31965636
Shit gets dirty fast, son.
Ever seen Hickok shoot a Glock loaded with blackpowder?

>>31965623
Lots of recoil operated firearms. Modern black powder is consistent enough that you could design firearms around an expected impulse, with high reliability.
Gas operation is probably not going to work well due to excessive fouling, but the Maxim gun was recoil operated and chambered for black powder originally so I'd expect it to work.
You'd probably not see very many SCHV weapons, as fouling would obstruct the bores worse than on .30 cals.

45-120 n shieeet

>>31965623
Rounds would be propelled with something else, like TNT.

There'd probably be a lot more interest in coilguns or airguns.

>What would modern guns look like if we only had black powder?
Very dirty

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Sadly i can't find a video of black powder full auto, but here's a Gatling gun firing black powder.

https://youtu.be/8lczAxJg4sY

So it would be a lot smokier.

>>31965701
An automatic weapon firing 1000s of rounds in battle before seeing proper cleaning would stuff the piston cylinder full of carbon and gunk that it simply couldn't cycle, there's no designing around that in any practical sense.

>>31966063
Uhh yeah there is. Detachable piston unit, piston integrated into replaceable barrels, water flushing integrated with water cooling. Just a few ideas straight off the top of my head.

Just because it doesn't exist, and you haven't thought of it, doesn't mean it can't. That's just stupid.

>>31966084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LopUNq6lF2U&list=PLvhqxVenfcB7_h-PVU4KlKiPFG0FmRij1&index=10

That's after 15 rounds.

You'd need a hell of a lot of replacement piston units.

>>31966084
Now you just sound like you don't know how firearms work.

>>31966172
>That's after 15 rounds.
No, that's after 15 rounds with a system that's not designed for it.

>>31965623
I hear that sulphur isn't really necessary. Roughly 75% saltpetre and 25% charcoal will do the trick, from what I read. It might be lesser quality, I dunno. You can get KNO3 (or whatever it's called) from stale urine and feces (often found on the walls of caves in which animals have been shitting, like batcaves, also on barn walls), appearing as a sort of white fuzz.

Unlike KNO3 however, I've actually made charcoal before, and the process is very easy. In short, you're pretty much just baking wood. One method you could use is get a paint can, clean it out, put a hole (or a few) in the lid, fill the can with wood, stick the can over a fire, and it takes... what was it... 45 minutes? After a while, a flammable gas will start coming out of the holes in the lid, you'll know it's flammable because the fire makes it catch flame. This is normal, it would seem. Anyways, if you don't have access to sulphur (probably the rarest of the three ingredients), then it's ok, unless perhaps you want REALLY high quality black powder. If I end up making my own black powder, it's likely to just be used in a smoothbore musket that's also been made myself. Probably just matchlock; not even flintlock.

>>31965657
That sucker must be just barely working. I imagine it would have big problems with any amount of limp wristing, and I'd like to see if it can continue to function after 100 rounds or so. I realize that 100 rounds without cleaning isn't really something you can expect from a pistol unless it's just plinking at a shooting range, but still, I figure that dirty black powder would do Hell on reliability as it gets into the locking lug recesses as well as on the end of the barrel where the barrel bushing contacts it.

That aside, it's fucking awesome to see a self-loading pistol functioning with black powder, but still, I think I'd prefer using manually operated firearms if I had to start loading ammo with just black powder (like a post-apocalyptic scenario where smokeless has dried up leaving only black powder due to its easy (albeit dirty) method of manufacturing)