Space race revealed: US and China test futuristic EmDrive on

This is cool

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Space war soon.

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>tfw DeltaV wont be an issue anymore

GIANT FUCKING SPACE BATTLESHIPS HERE I COME

>>31938285
>>Leaked NASA paper shows the 'impossible' EM Drive really does work
Friendly reminder that EM drive is Perpetuum Mobile and can produce energy from nothing.
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1506.00494.pdf

How the fuck does the thing even work? Did someone ever figure it out?

>>31938383
That's a fucking retarded looking ship

>>31938390
>>31938383
That's really cool, but... velocity? How powerful is it? Will it be relegated to civilian transport?

Also America what the fuck? How bout instead of circle jerking and spraying cum all over each other while screaming "we're the best!" And ignoring everything around you, you start moving forward again. Pick the ball back up. Even this election is an extreme embarrassment.

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>>31938418
Battle-tubes with giant radiators are the most realistic portrayal of space warships, though.

>>31938366
Fucking love the expanse

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>>31938433
As Perry Rhodan fag I can't accept this!

>>31938425

Thanks for the tip, irrelevant civviebro.

We'll get right on that, God forbid we piss off another country.

>>31938383
>>31938433
I'd say that the EMDrive, if it works as advertized, will not change the tube design of space ships in any significant form. You still want to keep weight low and maybe even create some form of artificial gravity for the crew, which would be why a tube-shaped ship that is rotating around its own axis (or just having the crew modules rotate) would make most sense.

Also, even if your propulsion doesnt need large ass Methane/Deuterium-Flourid tanks anymore that makes up 90% of your ship's mass, you still need fuel for your fusion (or if we still are primitive, fission) reactors.

So, you will still have battletubes with 90% of them being fuel-tanks for your energy production.

Only DeltaV shouldnt be a problem then. Question, of course, but be the maximum achievable thrust - you need huge thrust if you want to propell a kilo-ton-class ship out of an orbital trajectory...

>>31938455
One you learn reality, you'll grow to accept it.

I have to accept my countries gun laws after all.

>>31938455
where are the radiators?

>>31938390
actually the leak prove otherwise, that it works and abide to the laws of physics.

>>31938495
>i can't into physics

>>31938501
>expending energy to create acceleration = perpetual energy?

>>31938495
Where is it then?

>>31938510
its about not expending mass

>>31938383
>>31938433
what game

>>31938510
Achieving more kinetic energy than was spent on the acceleration = perpetual energy. Read the fucking paper.

>>31938553
Spaceship autism simulator

>>31938433
The Normandy

>>31938553
Children of a Dead Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSoVbwyrxDk

>>31938501
>I can't capitalize the "i"

>>31938383
>reinforced carbon carbon

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>>31938285
>China grows larger

Pic related

>>31938585
No. Not fully understanding the method of propulsion does not mean it comes from "nothing".

Jesus christ.

>>31938708
Carbon-Carbon is the best tradeoff in terms of weight to protection.

Add a thin whipple shield made of low-density materials and you are well protected against railgun rounds.

>>31938750
>i don't know what kinetic energy is

>>31938776
>something disagrees with my incomplete model and thus i will throw my hands in the air and proclaim it comes from "nothing".

-You

>>31938787
>no single scientific argument
Are you liberal?

>>31938898
>something defying the predictions put in place in one of our models means that the event itself isn't happening because ????????????????

i think you need to read up on how the scientific method works anon

>>31938898
>>31938787
>Expecting scientific arguments when the data is this shit.

If we had a really good handle on the thing the information would be available. For now we'll have to assume kraut space magic

>>31938939
>just continuously repeats "you're wrong" over and over again

State an argument.

>>31938944
>>31938898
The scientific arguement is simple: the results do not fit within the model, either the model is wrong or the test equipment is faulty.

Your "scientific" arguement is "FROM NOTHING LOL"

>>31938944
i'm not the guy you were talking to, i'm pointing out that you seem not to understand how the scientific method works
either there's a measurement error or the model is wrong, you don't get to just throw out the entire discrepancy because it doesn't fit with your model. if you do that you get stupid shit composed of bolt ons to existing models for 60 years until another einstein comes around and unfucks your shit.

>>31938975
Exactly. You cant ignore results because it disagrees with your preconceived notations.

Now, you can still abuse your ignorance and use it practically, but you cant push it out of the model as an anomaly.

>>31938383
>1.3 gigatons battleship just for a fucking 1GW laser

lasers are dumb

>>31938998
nah in some cases you can ignore discrepancies to SPECIFIC models, but that's only in the case of your model being basically completely incapable of explaining the phenomena and changing it would result in the model becoming fucked

even in those cases the model still has use, but you just need to make another model that explains the phenomena. a good example is newton's work vs general relativity and special relativity, both are valid but just for different use cases.

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>>31938939
>i don't know what kinetic energy is

>>31938958
>>31938975
When it comes to such discussions there should be educational census. It is pointless with some who didn't even finished school physics course.

>>31939018
>, both are valid

Ahh, but they are not anon, by default.

They have their uses, but they are both incomplete models.

Hence the race to find the "theory to everything", with M theory, string theory, super string theory, etc.

just chiming in here to say this.

All the experiments to date involving the EmDrive have been eliminating sources of error.

with more and more focus on eliminating sources of possible errors accounting for the thrust we get a better picture on if its a thing or not.


so far, no experiments have shown the thrust is coming from error. but no experiment has shown where the thrust is coming from.


at this point, we haven't confirmed the thrust is coming from a particular thing yet and just not error. we need to do more experiments to confirm something is actually happening.

>>31939023
>When it comes to such discussions there should be educational census.

You cant say it does not work when it clearly does, nor can you attribute it to some fantastical energy when there is no evidence for it.

You are doing the latter...or being sarcastic and doing the former, idk.

Right now you are taking the EM drive though math and breaking a fundamental rule, with no actual experimental results.

memes will take us to the stars

>>31939048
valid as in the accuracy of their predictions for the purposes they were designed for, not the actual models themselves.

honestly i don't know too much about string theory and all of that complicated bullshit, i went to uni because i was told to and nowadays i pay autists to do those sorts of calculations.

>>31939023
one of the most basic things we know is that you generally can't get energy from nowhere, so that energy is coming from somewhere. that either suggests the model is wrong or there's something we're not taking into account with our understanding of the em drive.

who fucking knows, maybe the "thrust" people are seeing is a result of something we can't isolate. maybe a strong gravitational field gives those results. maybe nearby strong electromagnetic waves. maybe something we don't even know about right now.

saying that the em drive is a meme because it's giving a result you don't like is a very bad thing to do. at least try to figure out what's causing it.

>>31939061
proof of working will have to be done in space
probably deep space

>>31939070
>You cant say it does not work when it clearly does,
Who says that it doesn't? It does work? Fine! Also it means that "a source of free and infinite energy is already at our technological disposal." Who says we can't produce energy from nothing? Old outdated physics laws BTFO by new technology.

>>31939097
indeed, which might happen if the thrust isn't ruled out by then.

that would be the smoking gun to demonstrate something useful is happening that we can use for thrust.

after that, experiments will be made to try and figure out what the thrust actually is. our first step and the only one needed before we start applying the tech is that deep space test.

>>31939094
>one of the most basic things we know is that you generally can't get energy from nowhere
Prove it. EM drive works -> we can get energy from noting. Old geezers and their shit outdated physics BTFO!

>>31939136
>EM drive works -> we can get energy from noting
It's more about "momentum" than "energy" per se.

>>31938585
There was no acceleration, only a force, and one of 1.2 millinewtons per kilowatt. You're talking about having something like a 1 ton satellite being propelled by maybe 10 millinewtons. Sure you don't release mass, but you do have to gain that energy from nuclear / rad or solar, with work still being done to generate microwaves that, while they might never leave a chamber, do get absorbed as heat and are hypothesised to controversially 'push' off of quantum foam / virtual particles.

>>31938409
Solar panels generate electricity. You shoot microwaves at a copper plate and it produces enough heat to produce thrust. Its a little more technical than that, but that's the basic technology.

>>31939124
>>31939136

No, you cant say we are getting energy from nothing without proof of where the energy is coming from. Lack of evidence is not evidence of nothing.

>>31939136
EM drive hasn't been confirmed to work

we don't know how it works if it does

it could work in some form that doesn't allow an over unit device.


you have less then an armchair understanding of what physics is.

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>>31939147
>It's more about "momentum" than "energy" per se.
When EM accelerates object it becomes about kinetic energy. Changes of object speed change its kinetic energy.

>>31938475
Lol

>>31939183
you know the EM drive uses energy to accelerate right?

>>31939162
>No, you cant say we are getting energy from nothing without proof of where the energy is coming from.
Ok, it comes from warp or friendship magic call it whatever you want. It doesn't mater from practical point of view. Because EM drive converts that X energy into kinetic energy well understood and that could be converted into any other form of energy.

>>31939211
>you know the EM drive uses energy to accelerate right?
Read this >>31939023

>>31939212
Knowing what the fuck it was doing would definitely help us optimize the thing

Interesting.

It is said that the recent Long March 5 maiden launch already launched two satellites into orbit, with a complete mass of 10 tons.

The first satellite is said to be the Shijian-7 experimental sat with Ion Thrusters, while the 2nd payload is secret.

>>31939212
Wrong, it converts X energy into X acceleration

that's the problem

kinetic energy is = 1/2 mv^2

the velocity part is the issue, if its a constant energy to accelerate, your going to hit a velocity very quickly in which KE you can get from your velocity is greater then the energy used to accelerate. at that point. you unplug your device, feed the KE into the machine's acceleration and boom over unity.

>>31939293
fark this was meant for
>>31939211

>>31939293
Wait, it converts energy directly into acceleration? Like the outright work is lossless?

China isn't exactly known for their innovation. Any space tech will first have to be invented by the yanks before being stolen by the chinks and implemented shittily.

>>31939327
>says the dumb pass user

pottery

>>31939325
no i was simplifying for him, yes it generates a force, the work it does is dependent on its velocity but that is another issue, the faster it goes the more work it will do for a given input. like any other rocket. but things change with no momentum transfer

>>31938433
>stuff spread out all around
Nah.
Smallest frontal cross section as possible, all guns to the front
Alternatively, shape it like a top and put weapons on only one side (the top shape is to give it a angle so that projectiles have more cross section to go through).

>>31939327
bait

EMD is invented by a Brit, FYI.

And the Chinese were the first to actually take that invention seriously to build a prototype. NASA followed after a few years.

>>31939360
>Dumb
>keeps 4chan running
Jealous that he has free money to spend or something?

>>31939361
Okay, that's a little less terrifying. Still weird as fuck though

>>31939387
>falling for hiroshima's scam

he did the same with 2chan as well.

>>31939402
I know, but at least we can have 4chan running longer before it shuts down and data gets sold

>>31939375
American invented it around the same time, as well. (Cannae Drive)

NASA has been fucking with it for awhile (eagleworks) but decided it was a fraud (So they say) before the Airforce picked it up and threw it in the X-37

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>>31938366
What a time to be alive.

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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vn4YlAlHn-Y

EMDrive + shipboard bass AI when?

>>31938433
WE LEGEND OF THE GALACTIC HEROES NOW

>>31938390
>https://arxiv.org/pdf/1506.00494.pdf

Cool perspective. So, assuming they build this shit and it works, what then? How do we move forward considering we have a gaping hole in one of the most air-tight theories in physics for the last 200 years?

>>31938366
WHOA WHOA WHOA HOLD THE FUCK UP!

Someone tell me where the fuck this is from, because I have Nemesis Games in my lap right now and my space erection can only hold so much pressure!

>>31942464
You don't know the expanse was made into a TV series?

>>31939159
Yeah, that part I get it, but it makes no sense, it shouldn't even be happening.

>>31938366
>gatling gun barrels don't move

That triggered me the first time I saw it.

>>31942514
I didn't know that, no.

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Here we go!

>>31942846
Go binge watch that shit, nigger. It's getting a second season, too.

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How different is EM drive from Ion thrusters?

I'm legit looking into building my own spaceship.

Projectrho is inspiring me.

I need a damn vacay from humanity and getting drunk as fuck on the moon or mars sounds like the ticket.

What's the most feasible engine and fuel?

A thorium reactor with liquid hydrogen for space travel seems good. If I'm going for mars I can fill the empty tanks up with liquid CO2 for the return home.

Which fuel is best for actually leaving earths atmosphere though?

I don't wanna piss radiation all over my home planet no matter how happy it'd make me trolling the planet. Done right, a nuclear take off would not kill anyone but it sure as fuck would freak everyone out.

>>31943780
Ion thrusters ionize a gas using electricity and shoot it out the back.
The memedrive only needs electricity to generate thrust, no fuel or reaction mass, thus freeing up more mass for anything else.

>>31943881

Is that physically possible?

Space isn't a perfect vacuum so it has to be possible but the thrust must be low as shit

>>31938475
It's in black and white.
It would be bright orange if it were colorized.

>>31943028
>Space Engineers
needs more clank

>>31943780
Ion thrusters use fuel to propel themselves forward by making it into plasma and throwing the particles out the back.

EM drive uses just energy to excite particles to do some quantum shit, and its all there. So nuclear reactor= unlimited fuel until reactor refueling.

One big thing is the EM drive is not powerful right now, so its a space only engine, not a heavy lift engine.

"Leaked" NASA paper that hasn't gone through peer review doesn't make it seem any less like horse shit

>>31945840
I was very skeptical of the thing in the beginning, but this has happened a few times now, and several agencies at least claim to observe similar phenomena. I think there's something going on here, though I'm not going to call it a known for viability yet.

>>31943780

The ion drive doesn't violate the conservation of momentum principle, while the EM drive does. It seems to work like some kind of speaker phone. It doesn't spit out any mass to move but what it does make (sound waves) forms a high pressure area that pushes against the speaker.

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>>31946297
Ion drive is not spooky
em drive is pic related

>>31946027
Continue to be skeptical until there's peer reviewed papers and a reasonable body of evidence supporting it. Even an official NASA publication isn't necessarily 100% accurate.

We all remember NASAs "arsenic based life" press conference which turned out to be utter BS.

>>31939094
Where are you getting "energy from nowhere"?

The memedrive supposedly converts energy from other sources into kinetic energy without needing reaction mass. You still need to put energy into the system to get it to work, and the conversion rate seems pretty ass. But that it is able to convert any energy at all into kinetic energy is the potentially groundbreaking aspect of it.

>>31943905
>Is that physically possible.
According the present knowledge of physics? No. That's why people are getting their panties in a bunch that the memedrive keeps apparently working. We may very well be in a situation where theory needs to catch up to observation. If the stupid thing actually works, then we're entering a new era of physics. But if it doesn't work and their tests are just shit, then their careers get torpedoed.

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>>31942846
>>31943417
Some good stuff.

>>31942522
It shouldn't be happening. Yet thrust is being generated from an unidentified source. That's the source of the controversy.

So we do more tests until we either identify the source of the thrust, or arrive at the conclusion that space travel as we know it is literally about to be redefined and we need to rewrite all the textbooks.

What I don't get with this is, given no one seems to be able to even really guess as to why, how the fuck did we end up designing the thing in the first place? I'm sure there's a story there, but I've not heard it.

>yfw SpaceX reusable rocket technology will help usher in the age of interstellar warfare.

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>>31947044
your face when this EM drive is old nazi technology pioneered by nikola tesla

it just so happens that this is revealed days before trump is gonna MAGA and pedo cults are brought to the public eye? Shits manufactured. We could have been spacefaring beyond mars for decades.

They hold the technology for a time they deem fit for the public.

>Trump won
>New great power relationship with Russia and China
>Space Race turned into genuine space cooperation
>Empire of United Mankind a real prospect for the first time in history

Best day of my life.

>>31947223
literally globalism but the wrong kind of globalism according to fags

>>31947223
中国天命昭昭,国运浩宏,国运礼数,皆为天定

>>31938461
there are other countries? why?

Retard here, Is EM like TFL or just a better form of conventional space travel?

>>31938941
what? no. we're too busy building a wall in greece and telling trump it would be immoral to build a wall in mexico. Kraut space magic died with the G11.

>>31947430
It's a better form of conventional space travel. It's got 2 big advantages:

First, it does not need fuel. Zero fuel, just energy. Since you can more easily generate energy than store fuel, you've got massively increased range. You could argue that it's unlimited range, but a more accurate way of thinking about it is to say that running out of fuel just doesn't happen anymore. The secondary benefit of requiring no fuel is that it frees a bunch of space for...whatever you wanna put there. It's zero-g so it's it's not weight but size that's the issue.

The second big benefit is that you can run them constantly. This means you get there faster and also generate gravity. If you accelerate at 1G constantly, you've duplicated Earth's gravity.

You can also use the engines on Earth. Hovercars, my nigga. This shit is literally futuretech.

NOTE TO ALL.

The EMDrive is not truly reactionless.
Since it turns electricity into thrust, and electricity is a form of energy and E=mc^2, any form of internal power generation is giving reaction mass in the form of mass lost due to energy producing reactions.
This is often a very small amount of mass.

Example: anthracite produces 32.5 MJ/Kg
One ton of anthracite produces 32.5 GJ/Kg
Let's put it into the equation
32,500,000,000=x*299,792,458^2
x=32,500,000,000/(299,792,458^2)
x=3.6*10^-7 Kg
So one ton of anthracite loses about 0.00000036 Kg of mass when burned

>>31938425
The prototype makes micronewtons, but seems to scale pretty well with wattage. Hopefully we'll be able to squeeze more out of it with better designs- once we figure out how it fucking works.
The real use will be in an array and power them for a while. You can't run a rocket for months at a time, but with this you can, apparently

>>31947185
there's nothing particularly fancy about this thing. It could have been built in the 30's easily
the problem is we still don't understand why it fucking works
i read a theory from some smart guys on Eagleworks about the excitation of virtual particles that come in and out of existence from other dimensions, but it's all way beyond me 2bh

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>>31938285
SOON

>>31946986
The inventor says he noticed strange, but small changes in a comms satellite orbit, and he finally tracked it down to the effects of a microwave emitter. From that, he made the drive.
However, despite building the damn thing, he turned out to be wrong on how it worked.

>>31938501
>and yet it moves

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>>31949964
I wouldn't worry about it

>>31949547
You COULD run a rocket for months at a time, theres just no point.
With these low thrust electric drives you can't take advantage of the oberth effect. Certainly couldn't launch from earths surface(or any other surface)
And leaving earth orbit would be problematic as you have to spiral out through the van allen belts.

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>>31950308
spooky

This is why I love 4chan. Sometimes I learn more from a single post than I did in four years of highschool.

>>31943905
Nailed it. That's why they're bringing it to space to test it. EM drive's thrust is very low, so to remove any error, they're going to spayce. But tests on earth have been within the margins of error so it's worth a look in NASA's eyes.

>>31944046
*clang

God damn I love that game