What a ridiculous cartridge. Seriously, who came up with this shit?

>>31932134
Is that a famas?

>>31932134

Just gunna leave it at that, or are you going to explain why you're wrong?

>>31932134

I don't know if the cartridge and 1911 were made at the same time or not. But I know for a fact it saw use back in the day when Americans needed a handgun round with enough oomph to kill crazed machete wielding flips quicker than a 38 special revolver would.

Of which I heard it did a better and thus functioning job.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm right. Then there you have it.

>>31932145

Because it's a fat bullet traveling at 850 fps when virtually every other cartridge is 300 fps faster than that.

>>31932134

>what is metallurgy
>what is chamber pressure
>what is early 19'th century.

File: 1453085683439.gif (4MB, 1160x910px) Image search: [Google]

4MB, 1160x910px

>>31932223
>what is diameter
>what is mass
>what are exit wounds

>>31932223

It's just a situation of "weight vs caliber vs velocity" it is a slow bullet, but it's also 2mm larger than most other semi auto cartridge. besides most black people don't know the difference of when a bullet is travelling 250 fps slower than another one.

File: Pistol_Round_Terminal_Ballistics.jpg (111KB, 640x611px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 640x611px

>>31932223
In a hollowpoint, speed doesn't matter. In FMJ, still doesn't matter.

>>31932216
They were part of the same program so to speak and it was a horse pistol/can gun that needed to drop a horse with one shot. The Army specified a .45 and thats what JMB gave em. Probably would have been a 9mm/.38 otherwise.

>>31932298
Well that's wrong considering the HP has a velocity envelope in which it functions properly

>>31932223
Best pistol caliber for suppression.

>>31932223
Still kills the zombies at the welfare office and jazz clubs pretty good.

>>31932237
This, guns are cucked today because the ammo fags won't use or demand better cartridges.

>>31932223
Can you run faster than 850fps?

I didn't think so.

>>31932346
>Well that's wrong considering the HP has a velocity envelope in which it functions properly
And apparently, that's around 875fps.

>heavier bullet than almost all non magnum bullets
>lower pressure than any modern pistol ammo
>leaves larger wound channel than even 10mm

Yea. Its actually a damn good cartridge. FMJ 45ACP has been proved to kill and incapacitate.

Its the longest serving sidearm in American history.

And you can literally use a cast bronze/brass pistol to fire it reliably.

The Liberator pistol used .45 ACP.

The 1911 has killed Kraut's in two world wars, communists in countless nationasnations, and its saved humanity from the Zerg.
And because it's so low pressure, it can easily be hot loaded safely. Hot loaded .45ACP can shit all over 10mm and approach magnum power levels even with cast frames. .45 is the most underrated caliber. Its easily suppressed as well, and the 1911 set the standard by which all pistols are measured by. Its ergonomics are legendary for a design over a century old.

And Saint John Moses Browning designed it. Its so versatile you need no tools for a complete disassembly and a spent cartridge can be used as a guide rod cap.

Your caliber is absolutely shit in comparison.

>>31932134
Bar-Sto.

460 rowland is a superior bullet in every way.

>all these irrelevant cartridges fall short yet again to .500 S&W

topfuckingjejm80s

>>31932134
fat and slow is like 95% of /k/ posters so of course we love god's caliber

>>31932950
captured for posterity

>>31932134
To be fair it's pretty good as a subsonic cartridge. Factory loads are often automatically subsonic.
Large bullets are usually the best for subsonic anyways.

>>31932950

I assume copypasta but if not - rest of the world's switched over to kraut parabellywelly, not muh stoppaen power.

It's good for subsonic, and back-up defensive purposes, but not much else.

If you have single-stack, you have basically no ammo.

If you have a double-stack, you can't conceal it.

It's not good for any kind of offensive purposes (outside of an SMG but let's be real whenever these arguments are brought up no one gives a shit about SMGs).

>>31932917
you cant prove i can't

File: 1469770428429.jpg (172KB, 1518x828px) Image search: [Google]

172KB, 1518x828px

>>31932134

>>31932950
>The Liberator pistol used .45 ACP.
the Liberator pistol was literal trash and was never proven to have actually ever even once been fired in anger

>>31932950
>proved to kill and incapacitate
a trait it shares with .22lr
>muh murican history/dead germans
le appeal to the past
>can be fired out of potmetal pistols because of weak chamber pressure
i can launch potatoes with PVC, but that doesn't make 2.5 potatobellum a better projectile
>1911 is the gold standard for pistols
>>>1911
>>>gold standard

>>31932298
those all look really painful to get hit with, id rather the smallest one there so i can carry a fuckton of it and fire it all really fast

>>31932352
>pistol
>suppression
wat

and even then, the >>>BEST would be something you can carry a whole lot of and fire very quickly, like 9mm or even .22 Auto

>>31933174
How do you know what it's good for, you've never been in any of those situations.

>>31933281
like a suppressor
oh wait, i thought you weren't a newfag
like a silencer

>>31933307
Neither have you, so tell me why .45 ACP works as an offensive military weapon or a stealth weapon.

>>31933334
Because it's a fucking bullet that will kill people you idiot.

>>31933329
oh

theres enough mallninjas on /k/ that i thought you actually meant for suppressing people, sorry

idk why you'd care about noise/flash suppression as a casual shooter though, just wear earmuffs

>>31933359
you heard it here first folks, any bullet that is potentially lethal is good for military offense AND stealth
i propose we adopt .22 short as the primary offensive caliber of our armed forces, and .22 eargesplitten loudenboomer as the recommended caliber for stealth operations

>>31932216
>using the onomatopoeia "oomph" instead of a real English word like "power"

>>31932134
Ribbed, for your pleasure.

>>31933439
>any bullet that is potentially lethal is good for military offense AND stealth
thats not incorrect

people cant hear you if they're dead and even .22 kills people

>>31933416
>noise suppression
shooting in an indoor range is still fucking loud with muffs AND plugs. in addition, some calibers/loads can be hearing safe if you have a suppressor. also: fuck you, i want one
>flash suppression
nice for not going fucking blind if you shoot at night

>>31933470
i was taking your argument to it's logical conclusion to make fun of you.

>>31933416
Because not having to wear ear protection is comfy. .45 acp is a sub sonic round so you don't need specialized ammo which you would with literally any other caliber.

>>31933515
yeah but your mission failed because it's not like .22's "damage" is what limits it as a military round, it's its range

i mean really nigga we use .223. same diameter, just longer and more powder.

>>31933544
>>31933500
but you can still suppress other calibers to non-discomforting levels just fine

the britbongs love to do it with shotguns of all things

>>31933568
>literally admits that shot placement is the important thing

but muh extra diameter on an already tiny hole doe

>>31933594

I don't think anyone is arguing that shot placement isn't the most important thing.

>>31932346
>horse pistol/can gun that needed to drop a horse with one shot
horse pistol means it's made to be carried on the horse. As in the holster is on the saddle, not on the belt. As such it was typically hilariously heavy in order to have a decent sized bore (.44) vs belt/navy (.36) or pocket/police (.31) guns of the time, because of shit metallurgy. When the 1860 Army rolled around nobody ever bothered going larger, and so horse pistols died.
At no point were pistols chosen by the American army due to their ability to kill horses.

I'm surprised you yank military types can hit things with only 7 rounds.

>>31933649
Law of averages disguised as luck

>>31933548

.223 has wildly different terminal ballistics than .22, if they magically had the same range you would still be crazy to use a .22 against a person.

>>31933548
>implying the 2000+ fps 5.56 has over .22 has no bearing on it's wounding characteristics.
are you high? they didn't pack all that powder behind it to make 5.56 a long range round. force = mass times acceleration, squared. .22 is a piss poor bullet for trying to kill anything larger than a fat raccoon because it's barely supersonic
proof:
5.56
https://youtu.be/HRbAfdoU9vY?t=9
.22
https://youtu.be/xEDo_PbAvJc?t=13

>>31933646
>I don't think anyone is arguing that shot placement isn't the most important thing.
um
>"that squared makes all the difference"
its right in the image m8

>>31933548
any weapon will still produce a sonic boom if the ammo is supersonic, even with the best suppressor. in order to eliminate this issue in most firearms not chambered in .45acp, you either need to modify the firearm or underload the ammo

>>31933762
>>31933808
go shoot yourself in the head with a .22 right now and post results

>>31933854
>b-but it's still deadly so i win!
refute my actual proven argument that 5.56 puts more energy on target than .22, despite HUEHUE SAME DIAMETER

>>31933854

Should I post ballistics tests or what? Can you not see the difference in cartridge size and realize one is meant to kill men and one is meant to kill squirrels?

>>31932940
As designed for the .45 yes. It depends on the construction of the bullet. You know the.444 Marlin was ripping.44mag bullets arpart in flight or how the 135gr 10mm penetrate like shit

>>31933003
.460 Rowland is a cartridge. The bullets are identical

>>31933544
Are you still living in the 50s where 147gr 9mm isn't spilling out of shelves like gold in a pirate chest?

>>31933647
>horse pistol/Cav gun
there, fixed. And shooting a horse was literally part if the test Lindey. The Cav is why it has a grip safety

>>31933886
youre moving the goalposts

all i said is that .22 is still deadly

>>31933854
My dad did just that and he's still getting around just fine, much to everyone's displeasure. All it did was fracture his skull and stain my porch

>.45 Super
Just gonna leave this here.

File: on to the next thread.jpg (30KB, 419x439px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 419x439px

>>31934034
yeah nah. you said
>"it's not like .22's 'damage' is what limits it as a military round, it's its range"
which is demonstrably false. i again invite you to watch the videos i posted >>31933808

if you can't acknowledge the difference in damage ~2000 fps makes between 2 projectiles of the same diameter, you are beyond help

>>31933464
>muh stoppin oomph

>>31934149
Not to mention that .223 is longer and thicker at the base and is slightly heavier than the .22LR bullet.

At least what I can glean from Wikipedia.

>>31932298
Not showing 10mm
Chart not large enough

>>31934004

147grains at subsonic speeds... vs 230grains at the same subsonic speed....

Hmmmmm.....

If you had one shot. Against an attacker. Which one would you choose?

I know I know...

"But I'll have multiple shots"

So will the .45, definitely not as much as the 9mm, but with today's modern .45s you'll still have anywhere from 12 to 15 shots.

How about for conceal carry? Well... There's a subcompact glock not much bigger than the 26 that carries 9 rounds of .45acp

>>31934240
Not showing the hottest loaded .357 mag

>>31932134
S t o p p i n g P o w e r

>>31934389
so we're CCing with suppressors attached now?

>>31933281
what is a submachine gun with an extendo

The only way I see .45 ACP still being good is either in an SMG, or in a very specific case where you are using a suppressed weapon but you don't need to conceal it.

And if the latter thing is the case you're probably Sam Fisher so why not just take more bullets with 9mm sub-sonic or even better take 5.7 for armor-piercing?

>>31933464
its how you can tell someone is an american, likely in the age bracket of late 20s-onward.
>>31934153
i laughed. fuck you. i laughed.

>>31934389
If you have to go to lengths such as laying out scenarios like that to make a case for yourself, you don't have much of an argument to begin with.

We don't need hypotheticals here, we have actual tests. We live in a world where subsonic 357sig and supersonic 45auto exist and we aren't stuck using silvertips or ball ammo anymore so premium defensive ammo works as designed. Carry what whatever meets spec and functions 100% in your gun that you can also shoot well and afford. That's it, that's all there is to it.

>>31934492
subsonic 9mm carries less muzzle energy than .45. basically what makes it a good round is it's speed. even moreso for 5.7mm. it's bullets are only .2mm wider than .22 (5.5mm) and weigh about the same. all it has going for it is it's speed and relative small case size compared to .223. if you brought it down to subsonic it'd have less muzzle energy than .22lr, and would definitely not pierce armor still

>>31934205
.22 lr usually fires a 30 grain bullet while the standard .223 is a 55 grain bullet. You're welcome anon

>>31934492
What is the mk23 pistol used by Navy Seals? Hmmm... lemme see. Oh, It's a suppressed subsonic H&K USP in .45acp. Weird that they would choose something like that when they have needs for stealth and lethality. Lol .45 meme round

>>31933439
I will explain for you like I explain to friend Ivan how American pig gun works. It fires a big bullet kills you dead. Then they silence, and it still fires same bullet that kills you dead. Quietly. Same gun. Same bullet. No jam. Still shoot.

>>31932845
.45 super in a USP senpai.

>>31934492
I read Sam Fisher and went, fucking idiot, it's Sam Berkowitz, (I know he didn't use a suppressor, I thought you were implying it would be a good setup for a serial killer.) then I looked it up. I AM the idiot

>>31932134
Literally a 1970s cartridge to solve a problem (conceal) that the market couldn't reach at that moment. ASA pocket 9s were introduced; it should have been thrown in the bin.

>>31934999
Psst. Look at the file name. Read the thread. Godspeed anon

>>31934947
not to mention the dog whisperer used a completely different caliber

>>31933281

doesn't firing subsonic 9mm slightly compromise the reliability of the handgun to cycle rounds?

>>31932950

as much as I like .45 I'm still going to say you're full of shit

>>31935066
depends on the action. in blowback pistols, you might need a weaker recoil spring in order to cycle effectively, since the rearward force of firing is decreased compared to regular loads. this can be overcome by using heavier bullets (which most subsonic 9mm loads use)
short recoil pistols can jam if the weight of the suppressor impedes the barrel's movement backwards or upwards. some suppressors designed for pistols come with a recoil booster that's supposed to assist the short recoil cycle

>>31933078
9mm parebellum is a lousy round.
only coons and neo-nazi's use it

File: 1476763296731.jpg (32KB, 409x400px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 409x400px

>>31932950

>>31932223
45 super, 460 rowland make it go much faster

>>31932216
>38 special
nope, .38 colt. The special's wimpy ancestor

File: download (2).jpg (10KB, 259x194px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 259x194px

>>31933762
If it's good enough for General Zaroff, it's good enough for me.

>>31935164
>only coons and neo-nazis use it
>implying you're not a neo-nazi by using racial slurs
>also, FBI, navy seals, pretty much every law enforcement on the planet uses 9mm

>>31934836
Yeah, considering they didn't actually choose it, when they realized offensive pistol is retarded and SBRs and SMGs do everything better.

>>31932298

>that 357 penetration

>>31933464
>oompha loompha doompity dee
>JMB's 45acp

>>31932298
>dyed ballistics gel tests
People still take this shit seriously?

File: IMG_2191.jpg (107KB, 1023x685px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 1023x685px

Kek, y'all mutha fuckers is silly - arguing about 'best' cartridge!

We all know that everything from a .22 to a 50 can kill a man

It's all about the other variables
>distance
>placement
>conditions
>the "how's"
>the "what's"
Etc.

>>31935995

You sure that's a .44 mag? Shit looks like a 357 next to that special.

>>31932352
But it is not.

The ONLY thing going for .45 Auto on suppressor use is the very readily available subsonic ammunition. But considering that 9x19 subsonics are plenty easy to get, it is really not that much of an advantage.

Also 9x19 is quieter than .45 Auto because of the smaller gas volume and smaller bore diameter.

Deal with it.

>>31936567
Too bad a subsonic .45 round still has nearly twice the energy of a subsonic 9mm round at 25 ft.

But you'll never actually shoot somebody in anger with a suppressed handgun loaded with subsonic rounds.

So it doesn't fucking matter, does it?

>>31936647
>But you'll never actually shoot somebody in anger with a suppressed handgun loaded with subsonic rounds.
>So it doesn't fucking matter, does it?

In a civilian context it doesn't, hence 9x19 is superior because it costs less and is quieter.

In a military context the subsonic 9x19 is quite adequate as the pros (quieter, easier to handle, smaller, more capacity) outweigh the cons (less energy per shot) in any clandestine thingy. A 152gr 9x19 subsonic is no fucking joke. Most suppressed handguns that various militaries use are 9x19.

Also subsonics are not necessary when using a suppressor. They are nice, but in most cases not a must. Especially with rifles it is usually actually beneficial to use supersonics with a suppressor.

>>31936348
It is, whoever labeled it is retarded.

>>31936647
>Too bad a subsonic .45 round still has nearly twice the energy of a subsonic 9mm round at 25 ft.
they both make indiscernibly sized holes through people and neither has enough velocity to create permanent stretch cavities. nope, it doesn't matter.

>>31932950
I like you.

>>31933255
Is 2.5 potatobellum a DD? Did you get a stamp for it? Is the ATF going to shoot your dog? These are important questions.

>>31932950
JMB actually preferred 38 Super and other smaller and faster calibers, but was forced to do the pistol in .45 due to the military's demands.

>>31936783
this. he made the hi power, which was pretty much a 9mm updated version of the 1911

Stopping power:
Hollow >>>> FMJ
.45 ACP FMJ >>> 9mm FMJ

Military cannot use hollow so the obvious choice back then and now is .45 ACP FMJ.
For self-defense and LE it is better to use hollow point 9mm. Both these groups get much less training than the military thus benefit from more ammo and easier handling of the 9mm.

>shit ain't hard to understand

>>31932223
I own 9mm, 45acp, and 10mm.
>lol muh 45? Fudd
>9mm? Better carry extra mag
>10mm? Meme round fag
Your the reason we have what we have.

>>31933003
You're forced to use either a compensator or porting so that the chamber pressure isn't dangerous when the chamber opens, and feeding reliability is traded for the extra chamber support that it absolutely needs so your gun doesn't blow up. There's absolutely nothing special about the brass content or manufacturing method. It's actually a hair thinner, since it's ever so slightly longer, yet made from the same cup as the regular ACP brass.

>>31935691
>navy seals
Guys! I just found out the navy seals use 9s! That must make it the best thing ever!
Kys, all tools have their places. A .45 acp hollow point will transfer more energy when it stops in your dindu of choice rather than passing through. Not saying it's the end all be all, I do carry 9, but saying that somethings better cause someone uses it is just lazy thinking. There are advantages and disadvantages. The military is weighted towards volume of fire because that works the best with squad tactics against groups. One on one I'd take a .45 any day.

>>31937678
>Military cannot use hollow point
This is a dying meme. The US never signed that treaty and it only applies to other signatories.

>>31938862
And only onto signatory nations. Technically isis never signed the treaty so anyone can use whatever bullets they want

>>31938932
Nor are they uniformed, so they barely qualify for anything at all.

>>31935390
.38 special is actually pretty badass round.

File: Screenshot_2016-11-08-10-11-15.png (890KB, 1080x1920px) Image search: [Google]

890KB, 1080x1920px

>>31933568
Did trump write this?

>>31934047
Well now you know better when it's your turn.

>>31932134
It won't take long when dindus coming at you where ever whenever are consistently wearing body armour.

That'll be the end of this meme.

>>31937678
>45 ACP FMJ >>> 9mm FMJ
nope.

Options
Oh I like coffee, and I like tea
I'd like to be able to enter a final plea
I still got this dream that you just can't shake
I love you to the point you can no longer take

>.45 slow ass fuck
>lol it is only 9mm
>10meme
>40short&weak
So, what is a good pistol round then? .38SA?

File: .38-.45 Clerke.jpg (29KB, 587x277px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 587x277px

>>31940887
.38-45 Clerke
or 9x25 Dillon if you will

>>31940887
.45 Super

>>31940887

.45 Super.

>>31940887
.454 Cassul

File: FK_BRNO_75_FK_caliber_pistol.jpg (212KB, 650x488px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 650x488px

>>31940887
7.5 BRNO

>>31940887
Are you a retard?
.357 SIG is the right answer.

>>31940999
>>31941003
nobody actually uses that.

>>31936783
You mean .38auto,cause he was pretty dead before the super hit the scene.