How the fuck did the chinese do this /k/?

>>31925971
Gook shill, please.

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>>31925978
No shilling here, I'm suspicious.

The average chinese soldier has a shit rifle, no optics, no body armor and a kit that looks like it came out of the fucking 90s.
>White gloves

And then they have this jet that looks like it could go toe to toe with F-22s. There's too much of a disparity between them and it's weird as fuck.

>>31925971
They have body armor.

For guard units.

You see.

Cat A units get best gen stuff.
Cat B gets less shit stuff.
Cat C gets ww2 left overs.

>>31925990
there's two things in play here
1) they only have to make a few of these right now
2) it *looks* like it has stuff

what happens if it reaches mass production? who knows.

>>31925992
>Cat A units get best gen stuff.
>Cat B gets less shit stuff.
>Cat C gets ww2 left overs.
Can I get a source to this? All I see is skinny chinks with no plate carriers

It's a bit suss the flight demo at Zhuhai was only a single fly by.

Don't just an aircraft by its looks, most important bits are on the inside.

Wouldn't put the Chinese fighter anywhere near Western or Russian planes.

>>31925990
Man keep drinking that Chinese kool-aid. Their culture of cheating is so bad you can almost guarantee that half that shit dont work. Anyone can make an F-22 look alike, but how likely is it going to actually work? I mean the chinks cant even get their regular infantry units to stop cheating http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2014-07/31/content_18221112.htm

>>31925990
>>31925971

they stole most of it from our defense contractors, i imagine.

>>31926017
Standard Soviet style unit categories.

Cat A = your cream of the crop, the "Guards Units", they get the newest shit first and train regularly. (if it's an armored unit, they have ZTZ-99 tanks)

Cat B = regular Army dudes that sit around base cleaning toilets and doing peacetime grunt stuff, they get yesterday's mass produced stuff. (they get ZTZ-96B tanks)

Cat C = Reservists basically. They have old hand-me-downs from a couple decades ago. (they have ZTZ-5x and -6x series stuff)

>>31925971
>>EOTS/IRST

From the marketing wank, its just IR, not EO

>>31925971
Have you ever considered the thought that the F-22 has been around in various forms for over 20 years and they learned from it?

It's not surprising that finally someone other than us has come up with a competent 5th gen

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>>31925971
>>31926039

also, historically engines have been the weak point for the chinese; they've been forced to use Russian engines because their domestic designs don't measure up. I think I'd be surprised if they manage to get the WS-15 working.

>>31925971
>ctrl+c
>ctrl+v

>>31925971
>stealth
>those engines
yeah no.

>>31925990
>looks like
There you go anon. You answered your own question. The Chinese army looks like it can do shit. The only ones that can do anything are the units that are trained to deal with domestic terrorists on their western borders. Everything else is a literal pony show.

>>31925990
>looks like
There's your problem.

>>31925990
You think a single photo of soldiers doing a bayonet display is indicative of an entire nations military equipment?

You idiot.

>>31925971
state supported corporate espionage

>>31925990
It's more likely the J-20 is an attack aircraft for messing around with naval fleets at standoff range than a fighter.

>>31925971
They can copy all they want but does any of it actually WORK?

See when you just copy and paste like china, you skip the development process that allows you to catch bugs and improve on design

I doubt anything on that plane will work as good as the F-35/F-22 and its likely a propaganda tool

But time will tell

>>31925971
>Frameless canopy
>Image clearly doesn't have one

Because you're making things up lmao

>>31925971
Ha! And you think western MICs have it good!

>>31926031
>only a single fly by.

There were three.

Also, it flies almost everyday at its base. That's where all the videos of it come from.

https://www.wired.com/2016/11/china-j-20-fighter-jet/

Tl;DR: J-20 is a lot of propaganda, not a real competitor to the F-22/35.

>>31928204
Butthurt and sour grapes didnt wait for too long I see.

The West gotta defend their neat little narrative, or they cant sleep well at night anymore.

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>>31925990

China is not involved in any war at the moment and the PLA ground forces arent the main beneficiaries of the defense spending anymore, but the navy and airforce is.

China's counter-intervention A2AD strategy does not require any larger ground battles, aside of protecting their ASBM launchers from US special forces.

And pic related are the Rocket Force guard troops, who will do that job.

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>>31925971
30 years of sustained investments in their national R&D.

Look forward for more surprises in the near future.

>>31928333
Do you have anything that proves the contrary?

>>31928333
this

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>>31928479
Yes, actual RCS computer modeling as well as the paper written by Dr. Song, the chief designer of the J-20.

>>31928822

They're designing and building an aircraft to fly in 2025 against a plane that was designed in 1987.

They still have some catching up to do.

>>31928387

>30 years of sustained investments in their national R&D

By which you mean 30 years of industrial and military espionage.

By which I mean Israel sold them the plans.

>>31928873
No, they're banking on being even more primitive so the west wastes time & money.

>>31928873
>2025

where do you get this number.

First J-20s are already delivered to the PLAAF's test squadrons earlier this year.

>>31928889
You cant "steal" machinery, metallurgy and know how.

This is the crucial difference between China, who can actually build most of their hardware 100% and India or Japan, who are proud of being fed the shit they pay for and not a single drop more, which keeps them in internal dependency towards the west.

>>31928912

By the time they reach full strength numbers and work out any teething issues it's probably going to be mid 2020's. Lets be realistic here.

I would imagine they have no great interest in spending the money keeping dudes alive, but they have a vested interest in making shiny new toys.

They have quite a lot of dudes, but not so much shiny stuff

>>31928952
Stealth-nozzle equipped and TVC capable WS-15 powered J-20 by 2025 would be quite realistic, I agree.

GaN AESA and a full suite of opto-electronic sensors are already installed on the J-20 today. The plane has good growth potential.

>>31928889

thank you my greatest ally

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>>31928930

Sure you can. Look at what happened after WW2. The allied powers stole all sorts of shit including workers and macro scale manufacturing.

http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/TechZone/Cylinders/Article/False/12857/TechZone-Cylinders

But that wasn't your point. Your point was that they developed this technology natively and that's simply not true. They got fed some designs and tutored by contractors. Espionage helped, the Russians helped, Isreal helped. Probably a 3rd of the planet contributed to the modern Chinese military. This is the R&D equivalent of watching videos on youtube.

Besides, it doesn't matter. China has sucked at warfare since the Qing dynasty.

>>31928988

No shit. The only nice thing you can say about Israel is that they're not fucking Arabs and it's not a bad idea to have a government that (ostensibly) shares western values and culture in that region. They're a fucking snake and you can't really get mad when a snake bites you because it's a fucking snake. That's what it does.

>>31928978

Yeah I'm not disputing the sensors, although they're probably having growing pains of their own on those as well that aren't really advertised for obvious reasons. Shit like that just happens, especially when China pretty much effectively jumped over a fighter generation or two to create the J-20. There's got to be some growing pains as things are learned.

I think it's a neat fighter for it's intended role.

So you people just plain don't like the chinese?

>>31925971
Because infantry equipment is relatively unimportant.

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>>31929085
Most people don't like it when trolls come in here saying "*insert Country here* BTFO China world power"

Since, this is /k/ there are probably a lot more Americans compared to other boards.

>>31929085
Their cultural heritage and history are unquestionably stronk and ancient.

The modern fucks that show up pretending they're anything more than whiny shills need to shut up.

>>31929157
CHINESE STRONK

>>31928978
>and a full suite of opto-electronic sensors

Being that there is no HMD, and judging by the fluff there is not really any EO, this is largely in question.

>>31928822
I would argue the chief designer of the J-20 has a lot riding on it looking as good as possible.

Thats quite possibly the worst source, the bias would be obvious to a toddler.

>>31925971
Because China knows they have the factories to mass produce these things and the bodies to keep sending them with regardless if they have a 10% fail rate.

They will be the next superpower.

CHINA

>Canards

>>31929394
WILL

>>31929407
GROW

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>>31928357
That raifu is pretty swell.

>>31929417
STRONGER

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>>31929417
LARGER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPH9iKpM-fk

>>31926017

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>>31929442
>Raptor here

isn't that the same plane they put out the promotional propaganda for, but they reused, shot for shot, the finale of top gun?

look, we all know chinks are liars, thieves, and just total shitlords like the jews, so why give them the attention they so clearly crave?

>>31929384
>China
>90% success rate
>if 10 of us fall, 1 more will take their place!

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>>31926017

>>31929662
Actually if 10 fell, it would be 90 to take their place there genius.

>lrn2math

>>31929640

you sound like half a tard and some butthurt brown asian to boot

>>31925971
I just apply what I have grown up observing of chinese attitudes from a people perspective to their government level;
As long as you look and sound good, actually trying to repair and build a good foundation can take a back seat.

>>31926060
How come they havent stolen engine data from the US then? They've just about stolen everything else.

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>>31929914
They won't be able to do much with it, even after they go through the trouble of acquiring it. They simply don't have the infrastructure to manufacture engines as advanced or as efficient as ours.

>>31929914
>How come they havent stolen engine data from the US then?
General Electric, Rolls Royce, (not US but same still) and Pratt & Whitney actually take industrial espionage seriously and don't hire retards for their IT department.

>>31929699
>40k joke

>you

>>31928873
>2025 against a plane that was designed in 1987
Could you push those goalposts any further?

The F-22 was introduced in 2006, the F-35 in 2015 and the J-20 will introduced before 2020.

The Chinese are extremely close to catching up to us in respect to their aviation history

>>31931327
Not the same guy, but dude, are you stupid? The YF-22 was planned around 1986 and made in maybe 1989 or 1990. Basically the F-22 was in the pipeline for a very long time. That China claims to have caught up so quickly is sketchy as fuck. Plus, they have a proven track record of simply trying to look good but not delivering. Chances are, the J-20 is a gen 4.5, and if they're lucky, something like a 4.8 or other. Ultimately, it's a 'wait and see' sort of thing, but I wouldn't jump the gun and say they've caught up yet.

>>31931592
>YF-22 was planned around 1986
Cool fucking story, nobody is disputing this. The issue is for some reason you're comparing introduction dates to initial planning dates, probably in some weak ass attempt to obfuscate the development timeline. Would it shock you to know the J-20 has been planned since the 90s in the form of the J-XX?

>It's not a REAL 5th gen!!
There is seriously next level mental gymnastics going on here. The J-20 is 5th gen by merit of all of the things in OPs post. It has VLO shaping, RAM, internal weapon bays and intake shaping superior to the F-22.

The Chinese have made a stealth aircraft, get over it.

>>31931592
The J-20 (J-XX) has been in conceptual development since the 90s, with actual development contracts handed out in 2002 or 2003.

>>31931771

Hey Dragon you'll appreciate this:

They recently ran into a problem during combat testing for the F-35 and they figured out that it was because the plane was able to figure out that the simulated environment didn't represent a real battlefield.

In other words, the jet analyzed the situation, concluded "this is bullshit, no actual threat detected" and didn't display the fake threats onscreen on the grounds that the threats being tested for were not real.

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/11/f-22-f-35-outsmart-test-ranges-awacs/

>>31931738
>intake shaping superior to the F-22.
This is nullified by having canards.
IMHO the use of canards should disqualify a plane from gen 5, it's a bandaid for shitty aerodynamic and control design.
Guarantee the J20 still has worse front aspect and FAR worse all aspect than the F22 and F35.

>>31931834
That sounds more like a failure for the simulation programmers by not telling the jet it's a simulation in the first place.

>>31931834
Cheers, hadn't seen that one (my F-35 news feeds have been clogged with articles about the J-20 that reference the F-35)

>>31931940
>J20 still has worse front aspect
All critical evidence points to the J-20 having a superior front aspect to the F-35 with a lack of any large specular scatterers and F-22 type wing fuselage blends being the major contributing factors. Provided the control canards are set to a neutral position they'll behave like any other fuselage leading edge in defeating radar.

>>31925990
>Looks

>>31928357
Didn't they abandon the bullpup meme? Arent' they going back to a modernized Type 81 / some new modular rifle shit in the future?

>>31932107
>All critical evidence points to the J-20 having a superior front aspect to the F-35 with a lack of any large specular scatterers
What additional specular scattering does the F-35 have that the J-20 doesn't?

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>>31932195
Not him, but the F-35 does seem like it would be prone to greater scattering below -45 degrees elevation at 90 degrees azimuth (i.e. with the belly pointed at the threat), but I don't think that aspect is terribly relevant in practice. For one thing, except for transient turns it's only exposed when flying right over the threat, and it's also along the frontal plane meaning it's only exposed when radial velocity is low (potentially "in the notch") where doppler shift is correspondingly low and the jet is difficult to distinguish from chaff or clutter anyways.

>>31925971
You do realize the F-22 is now 26 years old? is less of an amazing feat to do something similar now.

>>31933399
Produced 20 years ago.
Introduced 11 years ago.

There were no F-22s before 1996.

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>>31925971

Because the USN can't even into AESA

>>31932195
What is it that you do Dragon? You seem to know a lot about this stuff (even here on autistic /k/). Care to elaborate about you background if it's ok?

>>31929052
J10 is pretty 4th gen, so I dunno what you getting at

>>31928930

India usually buys MiGs.

>>31928889

Israel doesn't have the plans. They tried to buy F-22s and were denied.

Eventually they get F-35s but for now it's eagles and vipers for them. None of the J-20 "stealth" tech could have come from Ideal. More likely, the J-20 doesn't have it at all. China's got some brilliant engineers, but their military industry is shit due to communism. Their best and brightest still mostly live in the United States.

They get a ton of industrial espionage data, mostly from Taiwan and the USA where language and ethnicity are in their favor, but as others have said it's not enough to have the data. You need people and institutional knowledge to make it work, and China's just not there yet.

>>31925971
Impressive

Truly China has the best Research and Development scientists. All planes that has the same goals will have the same look, it's not that China copied the look but with superior Research and Development, made a more efficient and effective airplane that has some semblance of another country's plane.

I cannot wait for when China gets back its land that China has discovered when China discovered California and New York.

>>31935133
Too verbose man:

Impressive.

The USN will think thrice before conducting its "freedom" patrols in rightful chinese pond.

>>31929701
Asians hate other Asians so much.

>>31928357
>US speshul farces

The Chinese should just hire Afghan goat-herders to defend their silos.

It is impressive that the J-20 has come together so quickly and that China simultaneously made investments in all the varied technologies. How good will it be? Who knows. It is a bit disingenuous to compare it to the F-22's timeline because the F-22's development was very careful. The F-22 could have been fielded much earlier than 2005, probably 1999 as it was planned, had we'd gone China's route of producing a not-so-done plane and just introducing the final pieces as they come. When will the J-20 be what China planned? 2025?

>>31935482
2018 is the introduction date.

>>31929914

You can't just steal the data on the engine. You need to steal data on the factory, something that is only stored in one location and only needs to be seen by a tiny number of people.

>>31929967
This. They don't have the manufacturing trade secrets and techniques that allow people to build these things.

>>31935767
Saturn literally just sold them the AL-31F

They have all the data they need to make a 50kt engine

>>31935986
A sample won't teach you how to build something, even the hot garbage that is the AL-31F.

>>31935996
>Thinking Saturn would just sell an engine with no documentation
Retard alert, of course they know how it works

>>31930036
:) x 100,000

>>31935719
And the engines won't be done until 2025 and who knows what else

>>31936155
>>31935719
2018 "introduction date"

You ever buy a Chinese copy of anything.

>>31936187
Hey anon, you dropped your "n".

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>>31928357

>>31936066

Getting a jet engine's documentation tells you how to perform routine maintenance, the full technical specification for the use of the engine and contact information for spare parts and other support.

It won't tell you how to build it, or any trade secrets involved, or even the exact materials used in construction.

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>>31928357

>>31928357

>mfw

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>>31936278

>>31936066
Go look in the glove box of your car. Get the owners manual and read through it, cover to cover. Now I guess you don't need to buy your next car, you can just manufacture it, right?

>>31928357
Look at how progressive the Chinese military is; they already have an all female combat unit!

>>31936066
Silly anon. You should have said reverse engineering. Too late, you've gone and made a fool of yourself.

Made
In
China

>>31936192
I love dropping 'n's