Could Finland survive a Second Winter War?

>>31904028
>bmp2
No

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>>31904061

They also have Western Armor

>>31904028
probably not to be honest.

if some cites the winter war please dont listen to them. though they performed very well during it and the continuation war they lost both eventually. its been more that 60 years since the finnish military have seen combat.

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>>31904028
Finland will be on Russian side.

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>>31904122
>lost

To continuing exist as a nation with their political sovereignty intact is a victory for someone as small as Finland going up against someone as large as Russia.

>>31904028
They already did. It's called the Continuation War

>>31904028
No, without NATO or UN intervention, Russia will dominate their coasts and be able to cut them off supply-wise.

>>31904261

But the Russians never wanted to conquer Finland. They just demanded land of strategical importance.

>>31904073
>>31904261

>A4

Leopard 2's without the ANGLE-TURRETS are shit.

They're fucking shit.

>>31904268

Continuation War has a different name because it wasn't the Second Winter War

Retard.

In the 90s, considering how the Russian army performed in the First Chechen War, and this was before the post Cold-War defence cuts had gutted Europe's militaries, I think so. Today, Finland would get crushed.

The Russians invade. Americans nuke Finland to liberate it.

If Finland is invaded, NATO will "liberate some minority in caucasus" to take the russian army on two fronts and bye bye Vladimir

>>31906671
In Contiunation War Finland attacked alongside Nazis to the Soviet Union.

Finlands success in winter war came of Soviet's disabled army, unfit soviet troops and their dependance on using roads and really freezing winter. Finland had lots of good luck by their side in Winterwar, but that doesnt mean that Finns didnt put on an extraordinary fight.

In modern warfare the the russian army dont have to come along the roads from the east. They can fly their troops to the main targets so fast that the finnish conscription army dont even get the order to go to their brigade.

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>>31906899

>>31907270
Is this grozny for ants?

>>31905849
They also have A6

>>31904261
Finland ceded more territory than Russia originally demanded from them.

>>31904278
>But the Russians never wanted to conquer Finland.

Russians wanted to eventually conquer the entire world. It's the main objective of marxism.

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This time our brave warriors would be ready to welcome the Russians and offer all-expenses-paid accommodation in various hotels with conscript servant staff.

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>>319041221
but the finns have a secret weapon - SISU!

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Surely that depends on what else russia is doing at the same time.

Friendly reminder that Soviets wanted Finland to end up like the Baltic states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_on_Finnish_Themes

>>31905849
good enough against t72s (which is the main russian stock)

Yes and no. Yes, Finland could most likely do enough damage to make the Russian consider peace terms. No, Finland could not truly beat Russia, if the Russians really want it they could go for full occupation and annexation. This is a very simplified answer that only considers Russia vs. Finland and their respective military capacities, when you start factoring in global politics & the economics of warfare the question becomes impossible to answer. Too many variables.

>>31907693
no, finns are the best prepared from the western state for a russian invasion they always knew was coming one day. despite being a state 30 times smaller than russia they have active service mbts almost half of what russia has in active service. but against invading tanks truth to be told mbts are not even the best defense they are more exploitative if the situation allows but atgm capable afvs and airplanes are the best tank hunters today and they will fuck up a t90 no issues. only problem is finland and sweden are not nato states. so even if they can hold for a couple of days on their own and inflict heavy casualties they are on their own.

>>31907720
If that happened, I think some CIA care packages would end up in Finnish hands.

The sounds of perkele would haunt even the most hardened GRU or VDV soldier.

>>31904028
No. Today the russian army is far more professional and efficent then the soviet army under the winter war. Finland porbably wouldnt even have time to muster their conscripts.

>>31907747
if they only put as much effort into it like in east ukrain then finland would be able to handle it easily. like belarus attacked finland on paper but lot's of russian hardware shoved up and russian soldiers on vacations and stuff.

They wouldn't be able to push the russians back, they would however wage guerilla with NATO backing, i also think the swedes would give covert support if that's worth anything.

>>31907762
>i also think the swedes would give covert support if that's worth anything.
bunch of sjw doing pussy riot in front of russian embassy?

>>31904028
finns managed to get through the winter war because the soviets fucked up
>they did mistakes and struggled with the terrain and snow itself
>today the russian military have better equipment and the terrains won't be such an obstacle for them
>at the time russian leadership was completely in ruins and that's really why they lost
>you can't bet on russians being in such a poor condition second time around

>>31904278
>What is Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement
>What are road signs written in Russian for roads found in Finnish towns and cities found among Soviet troops
>Totally not trying to conquer you guize; just a prank, tavarish. If we were serious we would've beaten you, haha...

>>31905849
Leopard 2's are generally shit.

>no chobham\Dorchester
>not even DU
Might as well make it out of fucking steel german cucks

Depends on how they attack and why.

Soldiers on holiday would get wiped out. A moderate attack like South Ossetia/Georgia war using planes, ships and less than 80,000 soldiers would probably not go very well either considering the Finnish defenses compared to Georgia.

>>31907816
>no chobham\Dorchester
obviously it's german development
but composite all the same steel tungsten ceramics and plastic

>>31907816
30 years later fatniks are still mad they had to opt for a 105mm "gun" until Germans deigned to share their 120mm one.

>>31907831
they still don't get the newest and best 120 all they get is the monkey model L/44

>>31905849
Good thing we replaced them with cheap as shit A6's then. We alo made upgrades to the bmb-2's

>>31905849
you think the outer layer of armor being sloped or not makes a difference? not against kinetic perpetrators from mbt guns.

the internal layers are angled at a more extreme angle than you could imagine.

i think they started to use highly angled outer layers to offer protection from low caliber autocannon fire so that it doesn't fuck up the composite layers or something or simply changed the internal layout to be more like what we saw on that merk and the wedged outer shape is a result of that.

but every modern armor is sloped in effect. just sometimes they put a box over the slopes.

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>>31907919
also apparently they are just emtpy spaces in case of leo2

>>31907948
well with some tungsten inserts...

>>31906899
our army is in the best state it has ever been...

>>31907775

Kill yourself, retard.

>>31907346
You can't just "give" russians anything.
They'll just come for more and more unless you try to stop them

>>31908348
this anon knows his russians!
only when they are dead they stop coming for more.

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Come on, 140 million vs. 5 million?

The real question is "Can they hold on long enough for NATO to counter-attack in central Europe?".

Can Russia defend with puny nation of 140 million people against united peoples of USA + EU, consisting of 510 million and 320 million people?

Russia can't grab small land areas forever, sooner or later someone will cause things to escalate into a real war.

Chicken will be grilled, vodka will be consumed, mistakes will be made and it will all come down to Russian people killing their leadership (again) as a last resort to save themselves. This happens every ~50 years.

>>31908441
>This happens every ~50 years.
this makes me real sad.
nationalism on the rise again.
nazis walk the streets in the plain sight of day proudly presenting their shitty ideas.
commies try to grab freedoms left and right.

it's like the world never learns.

>>31904028

Most likelly if the Russians stick to dicking around like in Ukraine.

Against all their arsenal, including nuclear, and nothing holding them back? Nope.

>>31908325
>swedish cuck detected

>>31908348
Not necesarilly true. Stalin was never big on creating a world wide communist revolution ( >>31907383 is completely wrong for instance, Stalinism was never about conquering the world).
One of the main reasons why the Soviets went to Finland unprepared, apart from the wonky leadership at that time, is that they assumed that the communist Finns would rise up in rebellion and help the invasion. But that was horribly outdated information and such an uprising never happened.
So it can be argued that if Finland granted the Soviets the demanded areas, the Winter War never happened, the Soviets would still be expecting some kind of initiative from the Finnish communists. When that would not happen, they'd do proper investigating and realize pro-USSR communism was pretty much subjugated in Finland, it's possible that they'd never invade. Because again, Stalinism was not about needlesly throwing away funds and manpower to help communist revolutions that have no chance of suceeding. And while their original demands weren't as profitable industrialy as they later got, it was still better than nothing.

>>31908708
>Not necesarilly true. Stalin was never big on creating a world wide communist revolution ( >>31907383 is completely wrong for instance, Stalinism was never about conquering the world).
why not ask hitler about that? he knew whats up that's why he attacked russia (his ally)

>>31907720
t. salty Finnish man
Why are all of Russia's neighbors like this?

>>31908458
what?
History works in bigger cycles than this, fool. It isn't USSR again, it's Czars 2, eclectic boogaloo

>>31909217
because russians have only brought poverty, war, oppresion and loads of other stuff their neighbours didn't want.

>>31909217
>Why are all of Russia's neighbors like this?
you have to ask?
>>31909312
this but also worse, they mutilate the nations very soul and cripple their future

>>31904278
spring 1944, Finland started feeling the Soviet attitudes towards peace negotiations, Soviets' Stockholm's ambassador got instructions: "unconditional surrender, end of discussion", then after Finnish Army got its shit back together in latter half of the summer the earlier message was "a misunderstanding"

>>31907868
apparently they are re-starting A4 training in various bases starting in January (A6 training is probably going to be carried out exclusively in Armoured Brigade)

>>31909217
>bully your neighbors every chance you got just to make sure they don't forget they amre smaller than you
>start military build-up
>see most of the neighbors you bullied join NATO
>be confused why they would do such a thing
>decide it's all USA's fault
>bully the neighbors some more
>every one of their reactions to your actions further proof they are all evil fascists plotting to destroy Russia
gee I wonder why everyone in the neighborhood is getting a bit nervous...

>>31907848
haven't you heard? there's literally no difference between the L/44 and L/55 except one is longer, also the American license copy is better than either one of the European versions anyway because it's 'murican & therefore automatically better

>>31907948
>what is spaced armor

>>31907747
>time to muster their conscripts.
FDF doesn't use fucking conscripts for anything more complex than forming search parties for lost grampas who somehow managed to sneak out of the rest home...

>>31904028
We have to.