The Battle of Chosin Documentary

Your thread is going to die because it isn't a shitpost, a repost, or a low effort troll thread.

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>>31894054
reasons why /k/ fucking sucks.

>>31894067
It isn't just /k/ it feels like this over every board. The election basically caused a massive migration of normies/redditors, doesn't help gamergate done the same shit earlier so the shittyness is amplified by x10

I remember when /k/'s hatred for /pol/ wasn't just a slackjawed reaction to everything controversial but actual rejection and fighting agaisnt stormfronters, also try having a thread about anything other then western armies on this board, you'll feel miserable afterwards.

>>31894220
try having a thread on weapons older than world war 2, useless

>>31894220

You're delusional if you think /k/ has changed. It's the same shitty place it's always been.

I've been here for over ten years. It's just the same thing over and over again.

>>31894259
Aren't some of /k/'s most iconic rifles made in that era? The nagant and shit?

>>31894276
Really? I swear it's changed as of late. At least /v/ has.

>>31894276
The color of the shit has changed desu; alot of shitposting is post-ironic /pol/ garbage.

>>31894291
Describe that?

>>31894000
Chinese Peoples Volunteer Army in Korea was crazy as hell. Just shit tons veteran infantry that finished winning China for the PRC only a couple years ago, and they pushed the UN forces back down the peninsula. I wonder what the war would've been like if the Chinese had actual airpower to match the US. Probably would've won the whole damn thing, but maybe US would've used nukes? US loved nukes back then

It's also hilarious that Mao even pretended the CPVA wasn't the PLA.

>>31894318
Yeah it would have escalated in the chinese were able to hold on to their gains.

Also funnily enough alot of the tactics of the chinese forces were learned from German and American trainers. Really makes u think.

>>31894000

Chinese tactic to overcome their deficiency in weapon and air power by hiding themselves in cave and only move at night. Night attacks at close range, supported by mortar-fire and a psychological weapons such as trumpets and gongs succeeded to overrun the UN lines.

>>31894318
If Stalin wasnt a lying faggot and actually provided the MiG-cover he promised Mao, the Chosin-battle would have ended with far fewer Chinese losses and an actually unsuccessful US retreat.

MiG-15s shooting down US supply planes and napalm bombers (two weapons the Chinese feared the most) would have pretty much won them the war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0AewExveXY

>>31894000
Jesus, this astoundingly good quality. I didn't even think there was this much good footage from the war.

Do militaries have comparable video recordings of their activities today?

>http://www.pbs.org/video/2365880628/
Neat, thanks OP

I really recommend the Battlfield series on youtube for WW2, and Vietnam if anybody hasn't seen it. Really comprehensive, unbiased and fantastic delivery

>Also the Vietnam one took the WW2 battlefield soundtrack and synthesised it, shit is so cash

>North Africa - WW2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RCw8OIrlAs

>Battle for Tet - inna 'Nam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp6fnDuKMxQ

>>31894259
Maybe for you, newfag

>>31894000
That documentary just shows how bad of a hubris trip the entire US command back then were on about, starting with McArthur and also all the others.

Not taking China seriously because they literally believed the meme spread by the Japanese about how Chinese cant fight (and the KMT back then indeed were in a bad shape, not arguing that!), brought about the worst setback in the entire military history.

For the Chinese, on the other hand, their intervention proved to be some sort of catharsis. After a century and more of being the punching bags of the entire world, they rose up and defended themselves successfully. Kinda like how a bullied kid suddenly snaps and makes a suicidal attack against the big boys in the playground, knocking them a few teeth out int he process.

One should be happy that the Chinese back then were indeed shitty armed and had no heavy fire support.

>>31894000
Oh! I caught about 45+ minutes of this the other night on TV. It was really well done, and felt like a quality portrayal of the history. The soldiers they interviewed had great insight into the events...

Korea was fucked.

>>31894000
>McArthur dismissed the idea of the Chinese intervening
That shit's on Truman just as much, if not more so. A general should be receive information on what nations will intervene, not the President and his administration.

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Kek about those captured Thompsons the PVA used.

That was during a time when the PPShs didnt yet arrive, I pressume?

>>31894400
>Do militaries have comparable video recordings of their activities today?
Do militaries over 50 years later have better recording technologies?

I wonder....

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>>31894535
Nope, captured from KMT. Thompsons have been popular in China since warlord period.

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Thank you OP for contributing

Were the Chinese basically the reds back in 41? Throw massive waves of people until you run out of ammo

>>31894655
Basically, but with more outdated equipment and worse training

>>31894691
>Worse training
Maos veterans from years of fighting a vicious civil war to win all of China were poorly trained? Wow, what true and surprising fact

>>31894000
Wow, thanks OP. I have this bookmarked for mandatory viewing later.

>>31894590
Where's this?
Falklands? Ireland because those kids don't look brown?

I thought they wouldn't be happy to have British there

>>31894000
bump, I'm strapped for time though. I'll watch it this weekend

>>31894655
actually no.

Chinese won because of stealth tactics and good coordination

>>31894855
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeahhh no

>>31894867
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Volunteer_Army

Chinese forces used rapid attacks on the flanks and rear and infiltration behind UN lines to give the appearance of vast hordes. This, of course, was augmented by the Chinese tactic of maximizing their forces for the attack, ensuring a large local numerical superiority over their opponent.[9][10] The initial Chinese victory along the Yalu River was a great morale booster for the PVA and the first Chinese victory over the West in modern times. However, by late 1951, overextended supply lines and superior UN firepower had forced a stalemate. The North Koreans that invaded in 1950 had been much better supplied and armed by the Soviets than the Chinese Army had been. The main arms of the PVA were captured Japanese and KMT arms.[11]

Historian and Korean War veteran Bevin Alexander had this to say about Chinese tactics in his book How Wars Are Won:
"The Chinese had no air power and were armed only with rifles, machineguns, hand grenades, and mortars. Against the much more heavily armed Americans, they adapted a technique they had used against the Nationalists in the Chinese civil war of 1946–49. The Chinese generally attacked at night and tried to close in on a small troop position—generally a platoon—and then attacked it with local superiority in numbers. The usual method was to infiltrate small units, from a platoon of fifty men to a company of 200, split into separate detachments. While one team cut off the escape route of the Americans, the others struck both the front and the flanks in concerted assaults. The attacks continued on all sides until the defenders were destroyed or forced to withdraw. The Chinese then crept forward to the open flank of the next platoon position, and repeated the tactics."

>>31894882
Roy Appleman further clarified the initial Chinese tactics as:

"In the First Phase Offensive, highly skilled enemy light infantry troops had carried out the Chinese attacks, generally unaided by any weapons larger than mortars. Their attacks had demonstrated that the Chinese were well-trained disciplined fire fighters, and particularly adept at night fighting. They were masters of the art of camouflage. Their patrols were remarkably successful in locating the positions of the U.N. forces. They planned their attacks to get in the rear of these forces, cut them off from their escape and supply roads, and then send in frontal and flanking attacks to precipitate the battle. They also employed a tactic which they termed Hachi Shiki, which was a V-formation into which they allowed enemy forces to move; the sides of the V then closed around their enemy while another force moved below the mouth of the V to engage any forces attempting to relieve the trapped unit. Such were the tactics the Chinese used with great success at Onjong, Unsan, and Ch'osan, but with only partial success at Pakch'on and the Ch'ongch'on bridgehead."[12]

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Some kind anon posted this pic in a Korean War thread years ago.

My late Uncle was a combat engineer and received a Bronze Star for cutting a pontoon bridge free rather than giving the enemy a chance to cross it.

Looking at this pic, I like to think the guy second from right is my Uncle Joe

>>31894894
Even though the discipline of the PVA was strict by western standards, it is a notable improvement when compared to the Nationalist and warlord armies.[13] Discipline was applied universally within the army, with the Party members expected to be punished more than non-Party soldiers for the same infraction.[13] Beatings and abuses were also forbidden by regulations.[13] Although capital punishments were enforced for disobeying certain orders, it was rarely used in accordance with the Chinese traditions.[13] Normally, public shamings and political indoctrination camps were preferred methods in dealing with serious infractions such as desertion, and the punished are expected to return to frontline duty with his original unit.[13]

Like the Soviet army, political and military officers formed a dual chain of command within the PVA, and this arrangement could be found as low as the company level.[14] Political officers were in charge of the control and the morale of the troops, and they were often expected to act like role models in combat.[14] Unlike other Communist armies of the same period, although the political officers had authority over military officers on combat decisions, the military officers could issue orders without political officers' approval.[14] Similarly, the line between military and political officers were often blurred in PVA, since the political officers often had extensive military experiences while most military officers were senior Party members within a unit.[14]

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>>31894000
After watching it, I still have to say that this film is more a pity-party for the well-supplied, fed and clothed Americans and does in no way show the performance of the PVA in any fair light, aside of one short part. In others, they just spread that old meme around about how "Red Chink hordes come at us and their Commissars with Burrp-guns at the back to shoot them when they want to retreat etc." Which is factually not the way the PVA ever fought, as seen here:

>>31894882
>>31894894
>>31894913


Not very good.

I still have yet to see a fair depiction of the Korean War, that shows both sides of the conflict.

Also, not a single word on how the South Korean dictator back then also wanted to unify the country by force and was in the process of building his forces for it, only to have Kim beating him to it with Stalin's support.

I wished not a single Jarhead survived Chosin. That way, they wouldnt spread so much dumb propaganda about the Chinese people's volunteer army to this day, showing their OWN defeat as some sort of heroic last stand against the pitiful subhuman yellow hordes and as some semi-religious ideological pilgrimage for freedumb and shit. Because it wasnt. It was a full on retreat that only succeeded because the Chinese had no means to actually pursue them in during all the overpowering US Airforce napalming.

PVA soldiers would have killed to get just a single can of corned beef that those "poor and suffering" US Marines got every so hour by airdrop (and still complained about how that corned beef had to be eaten lukewarm baaaawwww).

Seriously, If I can send a thing back in time, I'd give the the PVA crates worth of FN-6 MANPADS to shoot down the US Airpower, and make the Americans suffer as much as the Chinese did back then. Then these vets can cry even more about their misfortune of being better supplied and protected than a starving chinese peasant soldier who still kicked their asses.

pic: An actual hero.
Unlike those jarheads.

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>>31895250
> angry chink detected

>>31894541
actually since Vietnam reporting and recording on the front lines has been severely restricted

>>31895316
Yes, I'm angry.

Angry about how people who suffered far less than my grandparents, cry such a river about what ultimately was merely a fucking retreat with minimum resistance. Baaaawww my thanksgiving turkey froze!

It was a fight between a desperate underdog against the biggest and most powerful military in the world. The underdog performed as best as it could and the Big Power America is crying bitchtears and attempts to either forget that this defeat ever happened, or try to reinterpret it as something it was not.

>>31895392
White people always do this kinda shit, why do you act like you're surprised?

Let them shill.

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>>31894000
I watched this on PBS the other day. Quite good. Would have been nice to have interviews with Chinese historians or soldiers, but that doesn't fit the format of 'American Experience'.

>>31895392
>>31895469
>>31895499
It's morning in China.

Huh.

Can't even make an attempt at shilling?

>>31895469
Not just white people. The Japanese teach about WW2 as if they were victims.

>>31895529
No shill of the Chinese, just a history buff who would like to hear from all involved.

>>31895529
You can't presume to know anything unless you know all sides of the story equally from equal footing. But why am I responding to a troll?

>>31895577
Because you're on 4chan, you autist.

>>31895250
Tell me how the North and South ended up. Still happy all those PVA vets died for a fat asswipe who rules his country like a fiefdom?
>I wish not a single Jarhead survived Chosin
Ah, its the butthurt chink who show's up in every goddamned Korean war thread. Nevermind.

>>31895573
Then you should naturally realize that it's damn near impossible to get any sort of factual and unbiased information about anything that happened in or adjacent to China out of the PRC.

>>31895926
You'll just get a wall of text how their ancestors got wronged in that hamfisted syntax they pull.

They're just mad their koreans got the short end of the stick.

I've heard it claimed that Macarthur could've held off the Chinese if Truman and the generals back in DC had ordered him to create a defensive line at the narrowest point of Koream about halfway between the Yalu and Pyongang. He supposedly could've held the CPVA off forever in a configuration there if he'd set up strong defenses. What does /k/ think of this? It does seem more feasible than trying to defend the whole Yalu, twice as long as the proposed defense perimeter, and without established defenses.

>>31894000
bump

>>31896268
Probably wouldn't have listened. He was basically ignoring civilian leadership's orders and getting away with it because he was a BIG HOUSEHOLD NAME and winning. The US was a COUNTRY OF WINNERS and winners are AGGRESSIVE and kick everyone's ass, win the war fast and go home and fuck the prom queen. It was some confluence of great man theory and bravado/machismo. The lessons learned from WW2 were that maneuver warfare was the new hotness and meant you won by outmaneuvering your enemy, and you did this by being faster and more aggressive than him. Defense of any kind was old and busted, armored thrusts were the new hotness.

To extend on that, US Military culture hadn't learned the lessons that would be beat into us in Korea and Vietnam that you need to understand and take your adversary seriously, no matter where they're from, what form they take, or how well equipped they are. Even if they were poorly equipped, there were a whole fucking lot of Chinese and the US posture was not the best, because they weren't taking this shit seriously.

Furthermore, the US wasn't in a position to fight a multi-year protracted engagement. WWII ended and the military was absolutely gutted, readiness was at some of the lowest points ever. The events surrounding Task Force SMITH paint a pretty damning picture of the entire situation. The US was absolutely not prepared to fight against a serious enemy, and would not be for at least a decade, and even then they would still retain serious structural, dogmatic, and systemic issues that would plague them throughout Vietnam until the reforms in the late 70s and moreso in the 80s.

So yes, while it might be theoretically feasible to have created a defensive line, the people, politics, and logistics of the situation made it a non-starter.

>>31895889
To be fair the chinese probably didnt realise how autistic koreans are

>>31895250
Is this a copypasta or something

>>31894000
Nice trips. I was actually talking to a guy I know about this. Gonna watch it over the weekend probably.

>>31897031
Yep, there's one shitposter out there dedicated to shilling for the Chinese role in the Korean War.

>>31897006
Korea was different than Vietnam. In Korea the Norks were the invaders making it a just war. I would argue the Korea war stalemate was the greatest propaganda victory the US had during the cold war. It turned into a personal slave state for a fat puppet the US could point at and laugh. Fat kid Kim is Chinas problem to rein in.

>>31894318
I had a Chinese friend tell me a lot of these so called volunteers were loser of the Nationalist forces and Mao figured if they died then who cares anyway. But I have never read this in any history books.

>>31894340
>Chinese tactic to overcome their deficiency in weapon and air power by hiding themselves in cave and only move at night.

that's not true.

chinese regulars were recorded to have been supplies with reversible winter jackets: white on one side, brown on the other.

in the winter war, there's speculation that the chinese would halt when a recon plane was heard, plug their dicks into the earth and wait for the plane to pass.

there's a passage from a patrol, i think from 7th cavalry, where they're up on a hill and hear a trumpet, but don't see anything. the guy says, in retrospect, the trumpet was a signal not to hit them because they were just small recon force and wanted to lure the entire battalion further north...

>>31895538
And, according to Chinese, Chinese have been victims since the beginning of time.

>>31895250

〉2.06块钱已放在您的帐户!

>>31894727
Did you notice the little catholic kid about to club the Brit?

>/k/ is now a dumping ground for chicom revisionist history

What the fuck happened lol

>>31894318
Eisenhower threatened china with nukes to force the n. Koreans to the negotiation table. Forcefully. I can NOT seem to get people to understand that china will NEVER forget that.

>>31894067
Is that a bren? Is he sniping with the machine gunner beside him? Why?

What was the GI weapon for Chinese during the war?

>>31899503
>>>/v/

>>31899521

you mean what the average PVA grunt was armed with?

assortment of hanyang 88, k98, arisakas, enfields, nuggets etc.

it was a logistic nightmare

>>31899449
[Citation Needed]

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>>31894535
Warlord era was a time of various arms embargoes with the western world wanting to ensure that China was never able to sufficiently modernize. But, at the same time, they were murdering the fuck out of each other pretty much non-stop and western arms companies desperately wanted to make some money from the whole scenario.

Solution was pistol caliber EVERYTHING. Stocked handguns were all the rage because they were cheap, multi-purpose, and bypassed every conceivable embargo. They were used to equip pretty much everything ranging from traffic wardens to stormtroopers. But, of course, they also wanted submachine guns, so the Thompson did a roaring trade due to caliber commonality with the ever-present C96.

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>>31894000
Watched this in a hotel a few days ago. Pretty fucking riveting

>>31900384
>the Thompson did a roaring trade due to caliber commonality with the ever-present C96
Wait what?

If you're talking about those chinese .45 c96s they weren't very common.

>>31894000
thanks for the post OP.
i've not watched it yet, but i still would be skeptical for a number of reasons of the claim of no propaganda though. for one its PBS and they always brand their documentaries with some.
also inter-service rivalries were very much in evidence during this period which mean you will get a very biased view depending on your source.
ive been interested in this for many years and would enjoy any new insight into this battle.
have read numerous books on this.

>>31894220
>but actual rejection and fighting agaisnt stormfronters
you mean worthless cuckservatives who likely supported ted cruz or jeb!?

>>31900403
I presumed they'd have tooled up and started shitting out copycats

>>31894000
Saw that on PBS this week. It is really good and really fucking hard. Like holy shit I knew Korea was rough.... but damn.

>>31894334
We always train them and then low and behold they turn on us. I wish Or politicians weren't so fucking stupid.

>>31894487
Well after fighting the japs and how hard core they were why wouldn't they. The japs also raped the fuck out of China.

>>31894655
They are the reds

>>31895250
Well it's on fucking PBS and I'm pretty sure the series is called American experience.

i know some of the marines were always claiming that they brought out many of the vehicles abandoned by the army and on face value this is true, but far from the whole truth.
had not the hapless regimental combat team 31 taken the bigger brunt of the fighting the marines would have faced a far larger army.
and it was an army bridging unit that enabled the remnants to traverse funchilin pass with the treadway bridge.

>>31894000

Americans would have beaten the chinks if they hadn't pussied out and actually tried to reinforce and supply the troops in the North instead of leaving them to their own devices.

Anyways America should have used the bomb, that would most likely discouraged the slant eye commies from trying this same shit again in Vietnam.

>>31894364
If stalin provided more MiGs china , US pilots would and with few more aces, that is all.

Other than WWII russian veteran "volounteers" which were skilled and dangerous fuckers, rest of the korean, chinese and russian pilots sucked ass.

And russians pulled out said WWII weterans from the frontlines after few were shot down, (and , unoffically they were afraid that some of them might pull Belenko on their ass, and defect to america with the shiny new MiG as a gift. WWII vets were product of system that placed skill over ideological purity, and postwar stalin pretty paranoid about their loyality) .

So that left only the chinks, norks, and the few young and unskilled, but ideologically reliable russian newbies.

Literally a sabre fodder.

>>31894513
I'd argue that the final blame goes towards the CIA which claimed that china had no plans of getting involved in korea

>>31900328
Yep that is pretty much what I meant, thanks! Stuff like that makes me wonder, with their war logistics, did the chinese even form a coherent fighting force other than mortar teams? Or did the Marines and the UN forces esentially beat themselves by spreading thin?

>>31894054
/k/ is only bad with meme topics and anything pro-China/Russia.

>>31901367

which is why they became masters of tunnel warfare and night infiltration

as for the supplies, there are a lot of stories regarding encircled PVA units relying on anything barely edible to sustain themselves and having to fend off UN assaults with literally nothing but rocks and sticks

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>>31900572
>traverse funchilin pass with the treadway bridge

>>31900372

Citation is his ass.

MacArthur was the only one to be threatening full scale war (aka nuclear weapons), and he got removed from command because of that before Eisenhower even took office.